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frog1000
27 Apr 22 12:03
Joined:
Date Joined: 25 Jan 01
| Topic/replies: 3,419 | Blogger: frog1000's blog
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-61227709

Government policies on discharging patients from hospital to care homes at the start of the Covid pandemic have been ruled unlawful by the High Court.

The ruling comes after two women took the former health secretary and Public Health England to court, saying Covid patients were discharged from hospitals back to care homes without testing.

Dr Cathy Gardner and Fay Harris, said it caused a "shocking death toll".

The government had said it "worked tirelessly" to protect the public.

Michael Gibson was 88 when he died on 3 April 2020 while living in a home in Oxfordshire during the UK's first lockdown.

His cause of death was given as "suspected Covid" after the home took in a patient discharged from a hospital with the virus.

His daughter, Dr Gardner, 60, from Sidmouth, Devon, said she "believed all along that my father and other residents of care homes were neglected and let down by the government".

The independent district councillor with a PhD in virology said: "The High Court has now vindicated that belief, and our campaign to expose the truth.

"It is also now clear that Matt Hancock's claim that the government threw a protective ring around care homes in the first wave of the pandemic was nothing more than a despicable lie of which he ought to be ashamed and for which he ought to apologise."

She also said Prime Minister Boris Johnson should resign in the wake of the ruling.

The women claimed key policies of discharging patients from hospitals into care homes were implemented with no testing and no suitable isolation arrangements in the homes.

The High Court said the policies failed to take into account the risk to elderly and vulnerable residents from non-symptomatic transmission of the virus.

The women partially succeeded in claims against the health secretary and Public Health England.

In their ruling, Lord Justice Bean and Mr Justice Garnham concluded that, despite there being "growing awareness" of the risk of asymptomatic transmission throughout March 2020, there was no evidence that then Health Secretary Matt Hancock addressed the issue of the risk to care home residents of such transmission.

However, the judges rejected other claims made under human rights legislation, and against NHS England.

Before the ruling was announced the government had said: "Every death is a tragedy and we worked tirelessly to protect the public from the threat to life and health posed by the pandemic and specifically sought to safeguard care homes and their residents."
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Report frog1000 April 27, 2022 12:17 PM BST
Similar situation in New York and all over the world.

The treatment of older people who needed protection from Covid during this situation has been awful.
Report Escapee April 27, 2022 12:37 PM BST
yet more law breaking by Johnson & the Tories?

the penalty for killing 1,000's is.... nuffing
Report DenzilPenberthy April 27, 2022 12:52 PM BST
This is the government distraction from the Midazolam scandal it couldn't be more obvious.
Report casemoney April 27, 2022 12:54 PM BST
yet more law breaking by Johnson & the Tories?

Yes , Ferguson of the North will also be bang in trouble  ,done the same thing . No mention on the BBC of her I notice .
Report casemoney April 27, 2022 12:56 PM BST
His daughter, Dr Gardner, 60

Would she not have gone and got him out of the Care home , Why was he in there ?
Report lfc1971 April 27, 2022 12:56 PM BST
No law was broken
Report shiny new shoes please April 27, 2022 1:04 PM BST
caused a "shocking death toll "

Radiohead - No Surprises

Reminder..
Top tip.. Don't put sick people into care homes
Predictable
Report saddo April 27, 2022 2:34 PM BST
Did the Gov tell the hospitals to empty the wards of old folk, or did the NHS tell the Gov we need to empty these wards? Important point surely.
Report akabula April 27, 2022 3:16 PM BST
Escapee
yet more law breaking by Johnson & the Tories?


Why single them out when this happened throughout the UK.
Thousands died up here in Scotland.
And nobody broke any laws either.
Report lapsy pa April 27, 2022 3:23 PM BST
A fair question Saddo,would an answer in part from recollection be the large numbers in the 1st couple of waves needed a quick 'turnaround' in hospitals,they hadn't capacity as the nightingales were being built.
Report Stickywickets April 27, 2022 3:26 PM BST
Maybe people should look after their parents, rather than shove them into these death holes, staffed by 3rd world mercenaries
Report Whisperingdeath April 27, 2022 3:27 PM BST
staffed by 3rd world mercenaries

You really think somebody on minimum wage is a mercenary?

Says a lot about you
Report Whisperingdeath April 27, 2022 3:28 PM BST
Escapee
yet more law breaking by Johnson & the Tories?

Why single them out when this happened throughout the UK.


Sounds like you agree! No need to single any of them out!
Report akabula April 27, 2022 3:33 PM BST
Why single them out when this happened throughout the UK.
Thousands died up here in Scotland.
And nobody broke any laws either.


Thats my full post WD.
Of course if you'd posted it in full you wouldn't have been able to respond the way you did.
Report Whisperingdeath April 27, 2022 3:39 PM BST
apols!


So you are happy with Krankie and her Government response?
Report akabula April 27, 2022 3:48 PM BST
I don't expect Sturgeon Freeman or any other British politician to be experts in this field.
Accepting that they, in the main, would have followed the scientific advice.
If the Inquiry finds otherwise then thats a different situation.
Saddos question is also crucial.

Did the Gov tell the hospitals to empty the wards of old folk, or did the NHS tell the Gov we need to empty these wards? Important point surely.
Report Stickywickets April 27, 2022 3:55 PM BST

Apr 27, 2022 -- 3:48PM, akabula wrote:


I don't expect Sturgeon Freeman or any other British politician to be experts in this field.Accepting that they, in the main, would have followed the scientific advice.If the Inquiry finds otherwise then thats a different situation.Saddos question is also crucial.Did the Gov tell the hospitals to empty the wards of old folk, or did the NHS tell the Gov we need to empty these wards? Important point surely.


The govt told the hospitals. I have that on good authority

Report akabula April 27, 2022 4:13 PM BST
I wouldn't have thought the NHS would allow the government to dictate to them in what was clearly a medical matter.
Report Whisperingdeath April 27, 2022 4:21 PM BST
I agree with that Bula but who the feck knows what the truth is. HS are guilty of cover ups too!

This is why the truth matters!
Report Stickywickets April 27, 2022 4:26 PM BST

Apr 27, 2022 -- 4:13PM, akabula wrote:


I wouldn't have thought the NHS would allow the government to dictate to them in what was clearly a medical matter.


Doctors were furious apparently

Report moisok April 27, 2022 4:35 PM BST
very sad all these deaths of covid and related illnesses -  would these poor victims be the ones who were dumped by their relatives in the care homes in the first place?
Report akabula April 27, 2022 4:43 PM BST
I genuinely don't think that the  assemblies or the government did anything that they knew to be detrimental to peoples well-being.
None were experts and all were acting on advice given.

I also think the use, or should that be misuse, of public money will attract the most criticism.

For instance this report from Audit Scotland.

17 Mar 2022 — AUDITORS say they've been unable to properly analyse nearly £5 billion of Scottish Government Covid-19 funding because of a “data gap”.
Report Whisperingdeath April 27, 2022 5:00 PM BST
would these poor victims be the ones who were dumped by their relatives in the care homes in the first place?

Do you think that residents in old peoples homes are found dumped in tesco's moisok?

You comment is exceptionally ignorant and shameful, even for you!
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 27, 2022 5:53 PM BST
Is saddo's question that relevant really? I actually agree with sticky for onceShocked in that I've heard it was a top down measure. However, whichever way round the only valid point is ensuring those sent out to care homes weren't positive and ready to infect the population there. If the bed blockers were negative then I'm all for them being sent back to the care home. Undoubtedly would have been the right move. Don't care who authorised it ultimately.

The salient point was in not testing these people before them leaving to check they weren't going to seed the virus. That was just negligence.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 27, 2022 5:56 PM BST
Some of those in hospital were not on visit
from care home.

Given dnr notices,

Shameful.
Report moisok April 27, 2022 5:58 PM BST
no wd  but I wonder at the people whinging are the people who DUMPED their elderly in the homes  - got to get them out of the way so they don't upset their routine  - total hypocrisy - ' your comment is exceptionally ignorant and shameful even for you'

you love to get your personal insults in early wd  - must be losing the argument if you resort to that

is this the usual way of the progressives  narrative?
Report SontaranStratagem April 27, 2022 6:03 PM BST
Theres no way out of this without bloodshed

Theyll continue to poke until that happens
Report PorcupineorPineapple April 27, 2022 6:03 PM BST
I can only assume moysey's kids are already experts in treating dementia patients so he's in good hands.
Report moisok April 27, 2022 6:21 PM BST
no wonder the progs on here are in a bad mood and acting up with their barbs and insults  - they are wetting themselves at the thought of their Twitter accounts being cancelled  ho hoCool
Report jollyswagman April 28, 2022 7:57 PM BST
saddo • April 27, 2022 2:34 PM BST
Did the Gov tell the hospitals to empty the wards of old folk, or did the NHS tell the Gov we need to empty these wards? Important point surely.


it was government policy, there were two documents basically telling hospitals to kick people out. i dont have them anymore but it was shocking how little care there was for what would inevitably follow.


the hapless hancock is responsible-

https://davidallengreen.com/2022/04/the-key-paragraph-in-the-significant-covid-and-care-homes-judgment/

the comments are worth reading too.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 28, 2022 8:53 PM BST
Whilst I blame the politicians, there must
have been advice from somewhere for all 3
governments to carry out this policy.

I guess that will come out at a full inquiry.


Still, common sense should have kicked in that
this was dreadful policy.
Report saddo April 28, 2022 8:56 PM BST
The politicians have always maintained they have followed the science, I have some doubt that they decided to empty hospitals without consultation with the NHS(science)
Report thegiggilo April 29, 2022 12:00 AM BST
Never forgive,never forget i'm telling my 10 year old son in bits and pieces just so he reaizes how evil these people are..before MSM  get's their brainwashing into him and believing their appeasement..
Report thegiggilo April 29, 2022 12:00 AM BST
Never forgive,never forget i'm telling my 10 year old son in bits and pieces just so he reaizes how evil these people are..before MSM  get's their brainwashing into him and believing their appeasement..
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 9:46 AM BST
Did your 10 year old son support the restrictions/lockdowns/scary rhetoric in order to put fear into people ?

Would he have it all over again just to save old,fat and unhealthy people at his own cost ?
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 9:50 AM BST
I think what the lockdowns achieved was saving lives and making everyone feel safer.
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 10:11 AM BST
I see

Most people I know would wholeheartedly disagree with you but then again you have your firm unwavered views and trust in officialdom/science like the baa lambs they so desire...


What about the cost of lockdowns punter , the negatives ?
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 10:12 AM BST
The mental disorders especially ... plain to see where I'm from
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 10:15 AM BST

Apr 29, 2022 -- 10:11AM, clouded leopard wrote:


I seeMost people I know would wholeheartedly disagree with you but then again you have your firm unwavered views and trust in officialdom/science like the baa lambs they so desire...What about the cost of lockdowns punter , the negatives ?


On the contrary, opinion polling showed that the electorate were very supportive of government policy in that regard of all four home nations.

Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 10:17 AM BST
In fact, I recall that Boris had a 26 point lead in the opinion polls less than two years ago, which was predominately based on the response of the UK Government to the pandemic.
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 10:21 AM BST
True cost of lockdowns not even known yet but there are clues ...

The kids for one example maybe..


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/pandemic-has-really-done-childrens-minds/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/04/25/hepatitis-surge-leaves-one-child-dead-17-needing-liver-transplants/

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.211114
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 10:23 AM BST
So you are saying that the hepatitis outbreak is directly connected to Covid?
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 10:25 AM BST
If someone's immune system cannot fend off the virus, it can develop into hepatitis.

Dr Meera Chand - who is heading the UK Health Security Agency's investigation into the rise in cases - said the virus may be hitting young children hardest, because lockdown restrictions meant they were not exposed to it in their early years.

This suggested “a susceptibility factor - so lack of prior exposure of that particular age group during the formative stages that they've gone through during the pandemic”, she said.




Read the article on the link provided
I am not quoted in there fyi
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 10:27 AM BST
So are you claiming that Covid is directly responsible for the hepatitis outbreak?
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 10:30 AM BST
Read and give me your opinion

My opinion was and always has been a firm no against lockdowns

Healthy people should never have been locked down.. the cost was/is exponential in many areas
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 10:31 AM BST
Why can't you simply answer my question please?
Report Stickywickets April 29, 2022 10:57 AM BST

Apr 29, 2022 -- 10:27AM, politicspunter wrote:


So are you claiming that Covid is directly responsible for the hepatitis outbreak?


NO, lockdowns caused it, expect far worse to come out of NZ & Australia

Report frog1000 April 29, 2022 10:59 AM BST
The locking down of mixing for young children likely means their immune systems did not develop naturally. They could have caused these hepatitis cases.

We already have over 200,000 kids dying in south Asia due to lockdowns.

Now this.

Lockdowns for the healthy was a terrible idea.
Report Stickywickets April 29, 2022 11:00 AM BST
PP doesn't care because he's a selfish ****
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 11:02 AM BST

Apr 29, 2022 -- 10:59AM, frog1000 wrote:


The locking down of mixing for young children likely means their immune systems did not develop naturally. They could have caused these hepatitis cases.We already have over 200,000 kids dying in south Asia due to lockdowns.Now this.Lockdowns for the healthy was a terrible idea.


Link to this please?

Report frog1000 April 29, 2022 11:10 AM BST
Covid-19 disruptions killed 228,000 children in South Asia, says UN report

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56425115

The disruption in healthcare services caused by Covid-19 may have led to an estimated 239,000 maternal and child deaths in South Asia, according to a new UN report.

It's focused on Afghanistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, home to some 1.8 billion people.

The report found that women, children and adolescents were the worst-hit.

South Asia has reported nearly 13 million Covid cases and more than 186,000 deaths so far.

Many countries, including those in South Asia, responded to the pandemic with stringent lockdowns. While hospitals, pharmacies and grocers remained open, almost everything else shut down.

The report - Direct and Indirect Effects of Covid-19 Pandemic and Response in South Asia - examines the effect of these government strategies on healthcare, social services, including schools, and the economy.

It estimates that there have been 228,000 additional deaths of children under five in these six countries due to crucial services, ranging from nutrition benefits to immunisation, being halted.

It says the number of children being treated for severe malnutrition fell by more than 80% in Bangladesh and Nepal, and immunisation among children dropped by 35% and 65% in India and Pakistan respectively.

The report also says that child mortality rose the highest in India in 2020 - up by 15.4% - followed by Bangladesh at 13%. Sri Lanka saw the sharpest increase in maternal deaths - 21.5% followed by Pakistan's 21.3%.

It also estimates that there have been some 3.5 million additional unwanted pregnancies, including 400,000 among teenagers, due to poor or no access to contraception.

The full effect of the pandemic - and ensuing lockdowns - is just starting to become clear as countries take stock of their public health and education programmes.

Experts in India already fear that malnutrition rates will be significantly worse across the country when the data pours in over the next few months.

Some countries in South Asia, like India, are still battling a surge in infections. While the nation-wide lockdown ended in June last year, several states and districts have resorted to intermittent lockdowns to arrest the spread of the virus.

The interruption to health services also affected those suffering from other diseases - the report predicts an additional 5,943 deaths across the region among adolescents who couldn't get treated for tuberculosis, malaria, typhoid and HIV/Aids.
Report Stickywickets April 29, 2022 11:11 AM BST
Nailed it!

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1519977431897100289?s=20&t=5fKDpeGTOMYb-xNw0Wc3JA
Report Stickywickets April 29, 2022 11:14 AM BST
PP is your typical NPC
Report clouded leopard April 29, 2022 11:14 AM BST
a very sensible young man there SW

Think he covers most bases

'Collateral damage' indeed
Report Stickywickets April 29, 2022 11:15 AM BST

Apr 29, 2022 -- 11:14AM, clouded leopard wrote:


a very sensible young man there SWThink he covers most bases'Collateral damage' indeed


Ed Davey's face, what a count

Report frog1000 April 29, 2022 11:17 AM BST
Lessons will be learned.

I would understand a short lockddown if the disease had a 30% infection fatality rate across all age groups and a full sterilising immunity vaccine was a few weeks away.
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 11:22 AM BST

Apr 29, 2022 -- 11:10AM, frog1000 wrote:


Covid-19 disruptions killed 228,000 children in South Asia, says UN reporthttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-56425115The disruption in healthcare services caused by Covid-19 may have led to an estimated 239,000 maternal and child deaths in South Asia, according to a new UN report.It's focused on Afghanistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, home to some 1.8 billion people.The report found that women, children and adolescents were the worst-hit.South Asia has reported nearly 13 million Covid cases and more than 186,000 deaths so far.Many countries, including those in South Asia, responded to the pandemic with stringent lockdowns. While hospitals, pharmacies and grocers remained open, almost everything else shut down.The report - Direct and Indirect Effects of Covid-19 Pandemic and Response in South Asia - examines the effect of these government strategies on healthcare, social services, including schools, and the economy.It estimates that there have been 228,000 additional deaths of children under five in these six countries due to crucial services, ranging from nutrition benefits to immunisation, being halted.It says the number of children being treated for severe malnutrition fell by more than 80% in Bangladesh and Nepal, and immunisation among children dropped by 35% and 65% in India and Pakistan respectively.The report also says that child mortality rose the highest in India in 2020 - up by 15.4% - followed by Bangladesh at 13%. Sri Lanka saw the sharpest increase in maternal deaths - 21.5% followed by Pakistan's 21.3%.It also estimates that there have been some 3.5 million additional unwanted pregnancies, including 400,000 among teenagers, due to poor or no access to contraception.The full effect of the pandemic - and ensuing lockdowns - is just starting to become clear as countries take stock of their public health and education programmes.Experts in India already fear that malnutrition rates will be significantly worse across the country when the data pours in over the next few months.Some countries in South Asia, like India, are still battling a surge in infections. While the nation-wide lockdown ended in June last year, several states and districts have resorted to intermittent lockdowns to arrest the spread of the virus.The interruption to health services also affected those suffering from other diseases - the report predicts an additional 5,943 deaths across the region among adolescents who couldn't get treated for tuberculosis, malaria, typhoid and HIV/Aids.


It's drop in the ocean stuff though compared to Covid cases/deaths.

Report frog1000 April 29, 2022 11:29 AM BST
114 under 20s have died in English hosptials with Covid in 2 years from a total of 114,721 people. 0.1%.

Around 6m people world wide reported to have died with Covid.

0.1% of 6m people is 6,000.

So worldwide around 6,000 kids likely to have died with Covid in two years yet in South Asia alone over 200,000 kids had died by July 2021 due to the consequences of lockdowns and other Covid prevention measures brought it.
Report politicspunter April 29, 2022 11:36 AM BST
200,000 out of a population of 1.8 billion. I make that 0.011%
Report markzzz April 29, 2022 12:04 PM BST
I would like to ask a genuine question, if anyone can provide the answer?

The High Court has concluded that the discharge of care home patients from hospital was unlawful. I have read numerous internet articles on this and can find no mention of what law was broken. Does anybody know what law was broken?

Clearly the High Court would not reach the "unlawful" conclusion without a law being broken - but which specific law? I find this very confusing.
Report lapsy pa April 29, 2022 12:53 PM BST
Maybe gross negligence? Govt guidance April 2nd 2020 said negative tests weren't required to return patients from hospitals back to care homes.
Report akabula April 29, 2022 7:45 PM BST
In answering a question in Holyrood yesterday Sturgeon insisted that moving untested OAPS from hospital into care homes wasn't a mistake.
Do you disagree with her lapsy?
Report lapsy pa April 29, 2022 8:17 PM BST
Of course it was a mistake in hindsight now though we all knew something was radically wrong at the time.I am not sure at what point did Scotland diverge from the guidance of Westminister,they seemed to follow it initially and then did their own thing.
Report akabula April 29, 2022 8:34 PM BST
at what point did Scotland diverge from the guidance of Westminister,they seemed to follow it initially

Scotland went its own way from day 1 and Sturgeon was very clear on this.
Nice try but no cigar, not even a stub of one.

So you disagree with her. Sore when one of your heroes lets you down.
Report lapsy pa April 29, 2022 8:45 PM BST
Or heroines even,a lot of countries made this mistake,not sure many said anything about 'protective rings' because it was simply the opposite
Report akabula April 29, 2022 8:54 PM BST
So no protective ring was in place in Scotland but you think it okay?
Missed your link btw, could you post it again.
Report akabula April 29, 2022 8:57 PM BST
Heroes covers everyone of every gender, sexist otherwise.
Report lapsy pa April 29, 2022 8:59 PM BST
Hancock said there were protective rings in the UK from the start,care home residents were discharged from hospital untested back to care homes,the courts found it 'unlawful',i have nothing more to add.
Report casemoney April 29, 2022 9:20 PM BST
FERGUSON don't make Mistakes ,According to Ferguson that is .
Report lfc1971 April 29, 2022 9:39 PM BST
Irish care homes :
The HSE sent 4,460 untested patients from covid hit acute hospitals
into nursing homes in the three months between the beginning of March
and the end of May
Under HSE guidance throughout this period patients were deemed eligible
for transfer to care homes even if they were showing symptoms
and had been identified as close contacts of others who were covid positive
At the height of the crisis in mid April hundreds were dying from covid each week
Report lfc1971 April 29, 2022 9:42 PM BST
Have the Irish courts deemed this ‘ unlawful ‘
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 29, 2022 9:54 PM BST
It's remarkable the tory half wits are now claiming
poverty causes deaths whilst enforcing more
austerity on uk public.

What do they want?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 29, 2022 10:03 PM BST
Once again a government sends home patients
Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales.

Why?

Advice, or follow the leader.


England government claim it was a considered decision,
I have heard Sturgeon speak of her deep regret
that it happened in Scotland... The others?
Report lfc1971 April 29, 2022 10:10 PM BST
Boris Johnson says he “ bitterly regrets “ care home epidemic
Report akabula April 30, 2022 3:24 PM BST
Hancock said there were protective rings in the UK

Hancock only ever spoke for England with the devolved nations doing their own thing from day 1 lapsy.
Nice try albeit not a subtle one.

Still no link so guess its not true.
Report shiny new shoes please April 30, 2022 6:09 PM BST
April 29, 2022 9:42 PM BST.

https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2021/0629/1231957-care-in-covid-nursing-homes-third-wave
Sad
Kansas - Carry On Wayward Son
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