Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
macarony
13 Oct 21 17:47
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Mar 05
| Topic/replies: 27,465 | Blogger: macarony's blog
For finally seeing some sense, now all we both need to do iron out a few more problems and we will be able to get on with some big issues of the day. Brexit is done time to move on
Pause Switch to Standard View Well Done The EU
Show More
Loading...
Report Foinavon October 20, 2021 2:58 PM BST
Like god you mean? He/she/zhe is reputedly everywhere according to some.
Report edy October 20, 2021 3:02 PM BST
He even watches what I do in lonely hours late at night? Scared
Report unitedbiscuits October 20, 2021 4:22 PM BST
Get a room you two.
Report Whisperingdeath October 20, 2021 4:34 PM BST
I am actually enjoying it!

Would like some fact to back up the opinions but I respect both opinions and have nothing to offer so watching from afar!
Report Foinavon October 20, 2021 4:48 PM BST
I think he draws the line there edy. Laugh
Report impossible123 October 20, 2021 8:11 PM BST
Some of the posts by Poles on the spat with the EU is laughable eg we'd trade with other countries, etc, were nothing but fantasy. {Poland is politically and financially impotent outside the EU; their present cushy positon is all EU induced. Without the EU Poland could be part of the USSR once again, I fear.
Report edy October 20, 2021 8:14 PM BST
The USSR disbanded a while ago if I remember correctly.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 8:32 PM BST
did you cry that day edy
Report edy October 20, 2021 10:28 PM BST
I do not believe I did. Did you?
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:31 PM BST
can't remember i'm 93 mate i can't remember what i had for dinner 3 hours ago
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:33 PM BST
trade deal with NZ agreed in principle
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:34 PM BST
Uk lamb farmers on suicide watch
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:35 PM BST
will be easier for New ZealandersLove to move to the UK
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:36 PM BST
funny all these trade deals seem to involve more immigration
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:37 PM BST
national farmers union not happy "imported food produced to lower standards"

UK dairy, red meat, horticulture threatened
Report edy October 20, 2021 10:38 PM BST
Didn't the Australia deal dissolve again after it was even announced as oven ready? Maybe the UK lamb farmers have some hope left.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:38 PM BST
trade deals mean more immigration and put domestic producers under pressure

who would have thought it
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:40 PM BST
this story covered very differently on GB News and Sky

GB News didn;t mention the statement from the national farmers union at all
Report brentford October 20, 2021 10:40 PM BST
your assumption, G is that everyone that voted leave did so to reduce immigration or am I misreading ?
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:41 PM BST
seems to still be in the agreed in principle stage edmund

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_Free_Trade_Agreement
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:41 PM BST
The Australian National Farmers' Federation welcomed the deal as an opportunity for increased Australian agricultural exports to the United Kingdom.[25]Love
Report edy October 20, 2021 10:41 PM BST
If New Zealand can produce it better and cheaper to similar standards, no reason not to have New Zealandish lamb really. Bit of a shame for UK lamb farmers, but they are not the first and only ever profession that needs to get either innovative or get themselves a new profession. That's life.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:41 PM BST
yes i think an awful lot of them did brentford
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:43 PM BST
"no reason not to have New Zealandish lamb really."

yes, apart from putting british farmers out of business, no reason

who needs farmers?
Report brentford October 20, 2021 10:43 PM BST
they certainly won the vote effectively, G...but much as many like to believe not everyone was voting it on those lines (personal position undeclared)
Report edy October 20, 2021 10:43 PM BST
There should of course be a certain degree of food independence, likely subsidized, but lamb is not exactly a vital food and animal to keep.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:44 PM BST
"they are not the first and only ever profession that needs to get either innovative or get themselves a new profession. That's life."

we all need to eat edy

you can't eat financial services

the french and germans understand this hence CAP
Report edy October 20, 2021 10:44 PM BST
Subsidize the former lamb farmers to grow or keep something actually important.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:44 PM BST
relying on food imports from Austrlia, NZ, Brazil and the US

what could possibly go wrong?
Report edy October 20, 2021 10:45 PM BST
And five years from now we'll all be eating awesomely fabulous meat and fish from bioreactors anyway.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:46 PM BST
it's not just lamb edy

next will be beef (brazil) and chicken (USA)

there is a reason the EU doesn't have free trade agreements with these places
Report brentford October 20, 2021 10:48 PM BST
it;s because they'd undercut their domestic producers isn't it ?

no one wants to deal with angry french farmers
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:52 PM BST
yes

the EU wants to maintain food security and avoid exposing EU farmers to unfair competition from overseas, due to lower standards and/or lower wages

in some cases a country like NZ may simply have a competitive advantage, but it doesn't matter

the EU is 100% correct
Report brentford October 20, 2021 10:57 PM BST
EU tie up's have been exposing GB farmers and virtually any other industry to the same though in terms of lower wages or creating British based competitors on cheap eu labour ?
standards is a bit of a media red herring...amount of food produce from outside the EU is remarkable, clearly if they start selling Britain rancid stuff, contracts will be sourced elsewhere.
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 10:59 PM BST
it's the GB farmers who are hiring the cheap east european labour

standards refers not just to food quality but environemntal, labour and animal welfare standards, all of which are lowerr in the US for example
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:00 PM BST
this is why french farmers can't compete

it's not because they're lazy ****
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:01 PM BST
EU agricultural policy ensures a relatively level playing field

wages will vary a bit, but standards won't
Report brentford October 20, 2021 11:04 PM BST
well I suggested reliance on EU labour in the previous post...standards are just different technical standards in general and you don't strike me as someone that's been aligned to those arguments but maybe the Roma badge is a sign of a changing G...
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:07 PM BST
wages in ireland, france, germany agriculture etc are similar to UK

i don;t think UK has been flooded with cheaper east european agricultural produce, certainly ireland hasn't

labour only one of many costs in agriculture

standards make production more expensive (GM, pesticides, chlorinbated chicken for example) and your producrs less competitive
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:08 PM BST
european farmers (including brits) cannot compete in a gloablised world of free trade

anyone who thinks otherwise is mad
Report brentford October 20, 2021 11:13 PM BST
do they need to...will be 90% automated in no time and in terms of the UK - we as current experience is showing were only able to be competitive on the back of cheap eu sourced labour..

all of this hurt the countries they were being sourced from at more fundamental levels if not directly financially ... 

what a wonderful world
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:20 PM BST
"we as current experience is showing were only able to be competitive on the back of cheap eu sourced labour.."

British farmers have fed the people of Britain for thousands of years

you should try to keep it that way
Report brentford October 20, 2021 11:30 PM BST
you mean we should have never had a trade agreement with the 'as was' ec purely trade agreement..?
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:34 PM BST
CAP and the same standards did a lot to proetct UK farmers

they were fine inside the EU, they weren't being threatened
Report brentford October 20, 2021 11:42 PM BST
Worlds changed G, - none of these equations are as definite as some like to believe...I've said previously on here that referendums shouldn't be held if you don't give due thought to a perceived negative outcome...you're addressing cheap labour for framers...yeah they loved it...who wouldn't... 8 to a room working their bits off ...no lip...

progress ?   maybe...but not in any meaningful way...
Report Giuseppe October 20, 2021 11:48 PM BST
i don;t understand what point you're making

how are UK farmers better off outside the EU?
Report brentford October 20, 2021 11:59 PM BST
doubt they will be in any short term, they were beneficiaries of cheap eu labour..

currently any unemployed able bodied individual can get an unskilled job (regional exceptions)  or if businesses play a part be trained to do an agricultural one  as staffing has a shortfall...bad for rich framers...good for unemployed...never as black and white as that but many choose to argue in those terms...
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 12:57 AM BST
UK farmers aren't going to struggle due to no poles

they woudld struggle to compete with NZ even if they were still in the EU

why do you think the EU won;t sign trade deals with these places?

even with cheap Poles Irish farmers still couldn;t compete

and i'm not sure how many eastern europeans are even ivolved in livestock farming

seems to be teh more labour intensive industries like fruitpicinmg
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 12:58 AM BST
"or if businesses play a part be trained to do an agricultural one "

there won't be many agricultural jobs left soon if this continues
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 12:59 AM BST
i suppose some probably work in abattoirs and meat packing
Report flat16 October 21, 2021 4:42 AM BST
Lamb and sheep prices in the UK are very high ,competition from a source ,6 months diametrically opposite is good news for the consumer .
The conception that "cheap food" is a bad thing is bizarre, obviously the NFU and any chosen farmer will chant for protectionism and or even a UK producers only monopoly, to maintain these high prices ,simple self preservation.
The UK farmers will still have a huge competitive advantage ,products will still be marked where produced ,nobody will be forced to purchase NZ lamb or similar .
The UK tends to be a nett importer in certain months of frozen lamb ,exporter of fresh in others and control is still held by the government in their "subsidy" control etc. The imports averaging higher prices than the exports ,though all these trends are in flux because of the pandemic and economic events ,variable currencies etc.....so the ability and claim that NZ can undercut efficient UK producers ,could certainly be debated.
To reduce the issue to tired emotional simplicities and thus ignore the upsides of the agreement is poor ,then link it to immigration ,a typical "get out of jail card" assuming 17.2 million people ,including many immigrants on a island of immigrants is against controlled immigration a touch desperate.
CAP varies from the proposed UK subsidy as CAP was orchestrated by the French for the French ,imposed and paid for by 27 odd others on a "one size fits all basis"..........any UK alternative ,would be targeted by the democratically elected government of the day at much lower  costs to target "sectors" in the UK on a reactive ,as needs basis ,though of course we are linked to CAP while we adapt.
The impossibility to my mind to create a CAP to be accurate and concise to be "fit for purpose" for the diversity and needs of Sweden and Greece etc is unachievable ,bigger is not always better.
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 3:15 PM BST
^ this guy is willing to let UK farmers go bust in order shave a few pennies off the price of meat
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 3:17 PM BST
"nobody will be forced to purchase NZ lamb or similar "

they won't know what they're eating half the time

many produceers / restairants will buy what is cheapest
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 3:18 PM BST
"assuming 17.2 million people ,including many immigrants on a island of immigrants is against controlled immigration a touch desperate."

many people voted for brext becasue they thought it would reduce immigration
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 3:19 PM BST
"so the ability and claim that NZ can undercut efficient UK producers ,could certainly be debated."

British, Australian and NZ farmers all expect exports to the UK to increase
Report Giuseppe October 21, 2021 3:20 PM BST
CAP varies from the proposed UK subsidy as CAP was orchestrated by the French for the French ,imposed and paid for by 27 odd others on a "one size fits all basis"

you got a rebate

and your farmers were protected from competition outside the block
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 5:54 PM BST
NZ isn't just about lamb, they are a major exporter of dairy products. This is a threat to EU exporters who have flooded our markets in the past. Perhaps the detractors can explain why having a FTA with the EU is good and one with NZ is not in their eyes.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 6:19 PM BST
because standards and costs are similar in the EU
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 6:19 PM BST
UK supermarket shelves were not flooded with EU agricultural produce
Report irishone October 23, 2021 6:27 PM BST
7 comments to one
Tells you all you need to know about the italian fascist
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 6:30 PM BST
Are you saying that NZ standards are not as good as EU standards? Contradict me if I'm wrong but I don't think NZ ever sold us drug contaminated horsemeat masquerading as beef. The BSE scandal also occurred while we were subject to EU standards.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 7:05 PM BST
I don't know what standards are like in NZ

I know that, for whatever reason, NZ has an enormous competitive advantage in the production of lamb and dairy compared to EU countries and the UK

NZ agricultural imports have the potential to place UK agricultue under pressure

why are UK farmers "strongly opposed" to the NZ trade deal?
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 7:06 PM BST
US chicken

Brazilian beef

NZ lamb and dairy

UK farmers cannot compete with this
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 7:16 PM BST
UK farmers were against a FTA with the EU and were demanding equivalent subsidies to CAP. They seem to be against any competition which is understandable. I don't think we have a trade deal with either the USA or Brazil. We buy Brazilian meat already and have done for years, I have corned beef tins from there in my cupboard. I haven't seen any chlorinated chicken in Waitrose, do you have any in your local supermarkets?
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 7:22 PM BST
I know little about NZ wine but the Austrian wine with anti freeze was a bit "heady".
The NFU and their members regularly oppose any import deal. Remember we will be swamped with cheap Aussie beef ,also it pure logic lamb and sheep prices are thru the roof and they would like to keep it that way.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 7:31 PM BST
UK farmers weren't as opposed to a FTA with the EU as they are to a FTA with NZ

the UK government is pursuing FTAs with the US and Brazil

I don't think chlorinated chicken is legal in the UK as things stand

let me ask you a question: why does the EU not have a free trade deal with NZ? is it because they are not as smart as Boris and his mates?
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 7:33 PM BST
this was all predicted:

UK government would be under pressure to sign FTA after Brexit, and would rush to do so without considering the long term consequences

these FTAs would harm British agriculture and lead to more immigration
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 7:34 PM BST
the UK is signing free trade deals which will harm UK farmers
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 7:37 PM BST
The French would veto it. Their agricultural lobby is all powerful and no French president of government can get elected by offending them.
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 7:39 PM BST
The EU is trying to get a trade agreement with NZ but as they negotiate bureaucratically and with 27 completely different agendas and Macron is a ++++ it will not be completed in any of our lifetimes.
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 7:42 PM BST
They will harm the farmers according to the farmers who want more subsidies. There's a balance to be achieved. I think those imports are more likely to displace EU imports as many people prefer to buy British where they can and I will shed no tears over that.
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 7:49 PM BST
Agree buy UK whenever poss but grass doesn't grow in winter here ,so there is no UK lamb circa jan/feb/ early march so we currently import in those months only ,so why not from NZ.
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 7:52 PM BST
You probably also realise that the French would also veto any EU deal with the USA for the same reason.
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 8:05 PM BST
The French will oppose any farming/dairy trade deal as they are "hitting it out the park" with CAP ,many have vast hobby farms ,producing FA but claiming plenty and many have second jobs.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 8:37 PM BST
"The French would veto it. Their agricultural lobby is all powerful and no French president of government can get elected by offending them."

are you saying the EU won't sign an FTA with NZ because it would hurt EU farmers?
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 8:38 PM BST
"You probably also realise that the French would also veto any EU deal with the USA for the same reason. "

cheap chlorintaed chicken, produced to ess stringent standards, that French farmers can't compete with?
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 8:59 PM BST
The EU will be against trade deals with countries ,who would ask for farm/dairy products access ,mainly because of the French farmers ,perhaps the Greek farmers (kiwi fruits) though they have little power ,possibly other farmers ,not the ultra efficient Dutch ,certainly not the German farmers (bite the bullet for a price)..........Germany generally will be pushing the EU/NZ trade agreement ,to get Siemens ,BMW into the markets.
Enough contradictions and self interests in there for another 20 year+ ,no result ongoing negotiation.
BTW this devil juice chlorine ,you do know it is in our water ,plus that deal is not done and labelling could be used to signal its inclusion and should public opinion go against it ,the supermarket buyers will reject it ,fast.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 9:08 PM BST
NZ is a tiny market for Siemens, NZ economy is smaller tha sout of ireland

what evidence is there that French agriculture is inefficent? or less eficient than UK?

why is chlorinated chicken banned in the EU and also Britain?
Report irishone October 23, 2021 9:17 PM BST
What an idiot

Talking absolute garbage
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 9:29 PM BST
If the NZ economy is so small why should anyone fear making a trading arrangement with it?
You can't have it both ways.
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 9:33 PM BST
If the Brexit negotiations show us anything ,27 countries ,700 meps ,each with 10 assistants and in the end only two mattered ,Germany and Merkel representing engineering and monetary might ,France and Macrons' ego and how to mace the CAP .
So just extend these principals or the lack of , to understand all of what the EU does.
In Sri lanka after the Tsunami ,much EU Tsunami relief fund money was spent on the horrendous coastal damage ,quite rightly delivered and a deserving cause. Other large amounts were spent in the high unaffected tea growing areas on roads and bridges etc ,I enquired why and was informed it was so the commissioners could get from their holiday homes from Columbo airport.
If I cannot buy UK chicken I will take my chances with chlorinated chicken as I have faith , you have been assured it will arrive and not just repeating emotional remoaner scaremongering.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 9:35 PM BST
"If the NZ economy is so small why should anyone fear making a trading arrangement with it?"

because its dairy and lamb sectors are disporoprtionately large
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 9:36 PM BST
what is britain going to sell to them? they don't even have a large militray
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 9:37 PM BST
"If the Brexit negotiations show us anything ,27 countries ,700 meps ,each with 10 assistants and in the end only two mattered ,Germany and Merkel representing engineering and monetary might ,France and Macrons' ego and how to mace the CAP ."

what about ireland?
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 9:38 PM BST
"I enquired why and was informed it was so the commissioners could get from their holiday homes from Columbo airport."

lol
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 9:39 PM BST
you didn;t answer my question

why is chlorinated chicken banned?
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 9:47 PM BST
NZ earn foreign exchange selling agricultural products to many countries not just to us, they won't be dumping. They use their foreign exchange to buy all sorts of goods and services, a free trade agreement is an opportunity for our businesses and exporters to offer them what they want at the right price.
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 9:49 PM BST
What about Ireland? LOL.
Report flat16 October 23, 2021 9:52 PM BST
I have condemned the EU for its bureaucracy ,tardiness ,money wasting ,lack of democracy ,self interest and contradictions and even explained its clear motivation to any and everything it does ,so just apply these to your questions and work out for yourself .
I must retire to consult my recipe book for fearsome devil juice chicken.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:01 PM BST
who do NZ export to? they don't have a free trade agreement with the EU and asians don't eat a lot of dairy or lamb, many are intolerant

you don;t think ireland's voice was heard during brexit negotiations?
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:02 PM BST
"I have condemned the EU for its bureaucracy ,tardiness ,money wasting ,lack of democracy ,self interest and contradictions and even explained its clear motivation to any and everything it does ,so just apply these to your questions and work out for yourself ."

mate you have been brainwashed by nigel farage
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:03 PM BST
self interest

lol

as opposed to what?
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:04 PM BST
lack of democracy are merkel and macron not eelcted?
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 10:09 PM BST
New Zealand's biggest trading partner is China. New Zealand's biggest earner is tourism which has taken a massive hit recently.
Here is their view on trade with the UK. Nothing to fear there.

https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/free-trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements-under-negotiation/new-zealand-united-kingdom-free-trade-agreement/key-facts-on-new-zealand-united-kingdom-trade/
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:11 PM BST
80-100% of asians are lactose intolerant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance#Epidemiology
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:14 PM BST
NZ is expecting to increase agricultural exports to the UK
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:14 PM BST
they're going to gain a lot from this deal, not sure UK will
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:20 PM BST
do asians eat lamb? it's mostly fish, pork and beef ins't it?
Report Foinavon October 23, 2021 10:29 PM BST
They will gain a lot when those tariffs go, they were only applied because we entered the common market.
I'm tired, buonanotte Beppe.
Report Giuseppe October 23, 2021 10:30 PM BST
**** sate mate i'm 93 and staying up all night to watch major league football
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com