Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
lapsy pa
11 Oct 21 22:01
Joined:
Date Joined: 29 Jan 09
| Topic/replies: 9,043 | Blogger: lapsy pa's blog
BestforBritain twitter,

Quite the admission on @thepolicyexchange Brexit panel.

The Protocol is being attacked not because it does not work but because it DOES, strenghtning North/South links. The urgency to dismantle it flows from the speed which businness is adjusting to it.

Well what a surprise!
You are given any ould **** in the UK to swallow and you do too.
Show More
Loading...
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 2:10 PM BST
* apologies and loyalists of course
Report peckerdunne October 30, 2021 2:23 PM BST
Clearly displaying a lack of understanding lfc.
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 2:27 PM BST
pd let’s get this clear ,this is a border for trade between mainland Britain and N Ireland

Irish nationalist or Irish republicans viewpoint on the matter is neither here nor there
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 2:29 PM BST
It’s a matter for the U.K. and British citizens ( not including remainers )
Report lapsy pa October 30, 2021 2:45 PM BST
The UK negotiated the Protocol with the EU Lfc,agreed to it,signed it into law, it is over,finished, finito.
What is now happening is Frost despite saying what a great deal it was when he negotiated and agreed to it,is he wants to change the 'great deal'. The EU are rightly not interested,it has been done,they are willing to help to make its implementation easier as showed with the changes made a few weeks ago.

I hope that makes it clear for you.
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 3:04 PM BST
I don’t find much to disagree with in that post lp
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 3:06 PM BST
But of course you did say something similar - before Britain got the very necessary and sensible changes made ...
Report lapsy pa October 30, 2021 3:09 PM BST
I am consistent on this, the changes made by the EU are indeed sensible and probably necessary,they have been made and time to get on with it,unless of course the UK were always planning on not getting on with it.
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 3:12 PM BST
The U.K. are committed to making it work - as we can see from the amount of time and money and effort we are putting in
Report lfc1971 October 30, 2021 3:17 PM BST
Now if the EU and the south of Ireland wish to see it work
I suggest they do more than just talk and do likewise
Report peckerdunne October 30, 2021 3:37 PM BST
Boris will eventually do a deal just like Tony Blair did, lfc.
Report lapsy pa October 30, 2021 9:00 PM BST
A thriving NI won't be allowed to happen imo, a part of the UK doing well and at a worst case scenario the rest of it languishing,long odds on,common sense says it simply cannot have the comparison.
Report peckerdunne October 31, 2021 12:01 PM GMT
That's true, was just getting lfc back up ha
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 12:59 AM GMT
Ireland would be much better under the Union Jack
either that or cut all ties with the south
Report lapsy pa November 1, 2021 9:55 AM GMT
Yes Lfc,maybe make the 12th an all Ireland holiday too!
Report Wallflower November 1, 2021 4:40 PM GMT
lfc1971 01 Nov 21 00:59 
Ireland would be much better under the Union Jack
either that or cut all ties with the south
------------------------------------------------

Don't think that will happen, they are wealthier than us, and at the to[ of the Human Development Index (wealth, health, education etc_ along with the likes of Norway and Switzerland.

Being purely factual GB would be better off under their tricolour and being run by Dublin.
Report peckerdunne November 1, 2021 5:56 PM GMT
Ouch
Report lapsy pa November 1, 2021 7:26 PM GMT
An internet clatter for Lfc,

ps we love buses.
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 7:57 PM GMT
Smoke and mirrors -In 2017 the south of Irelands economic data became so distorted by US multinational tax avoidance strategies
that Ireland effectively abandoned GDP statistics as credible measures of its economy
On present trends because Irelands data is distorting the EU aggregated data the euro zone as a whole
may have to consider something similar

There is America , there is Great Britain and there is the south of Ireland
Don’t confuse one with the other
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:02 PM GMT
even with the that stuff accounted for the south is still richer than the UK and MUCH MUCH richer than NI
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:02 PM GMT
‘The statistical distortions created by the impact on the
Irish national accounts of the global assets and activities of
a handful of large multinational corporations have now become
so large as to make a mockery of conventional uses of Irish GDP’
Patrick Honahan - bank of Ireland
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:07 PM GMT
You might believe that the south of Ireland is wealthier than Germany or America also
I can assure you it’s not
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:11 PM GMT
Modified gross national income, Modified GNI or GNI* was created by the Central Bank of Ireland in February 2017 as a new way to measure the Irish economy, and Irish indebtedness, due to the increasing distortion that the base erosion and profit shifting ("BEPS") tools of US multinational tax schemes were having on Irish GNP and Irish GDP; the climax being the July 2016 leprechaun economics affair with Apple Inc.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_gross_national_income#Irish_GDP_versus_Modified_GNI_(2009%E2%80%932018)

Ireland's modified GNI per capita is about 40,000 euros

UK's GNI is about 40,000 USD

not sure waht the exchange rate is at the moment but Ireland figure is higher

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_(nominal)_per_capita
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:12 PM GMT
lfc nobody is disputing that US multinatioanals contribute a huge amount to the Irish economy
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:15 PM GMT
the modified GNI is about a third lower than the standard GNI
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:15 PM GMT
the south of Ireland is a small country less than 5 million
How many work ? A few tens of thousands well paid jobs distort the numbers
and give a shewed impression of wealth
It isn’t the reality .
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:16 PM GMT
GNI is the same as GNP

the difference between GDP and GNP is profits from foreign companies sent abroad
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:17 PM GMT
the south of ireland has no coal so there was never any industry
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:17 PM GMT
Ireland has full employment at the moment
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:18 PM GMT
half the shops in dublin have Help wanted signs in the widnows
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:18 PM GMT
When you have to create jobs and industry and infrastructure etc for millions of people and produce the wealth for millions of
citizens - that’s a different thing
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:19 PM GMT
lfc you could make the same argument about Britain

vast areas of GB gnerate little wealth and would be **** without tax transfers from the south
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:20 PM GMT
the idea that Yorkshire or Northumberland are any richer than Ireland is ludicrous
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:22 PM GMT
I’m not saying there are many more unemployed it’s just the fact that of 5 million many will be retired many at school
many one parent working one not some not in work etc
That’s a small workforce - a few thousand well paid jobs has a large impact on the overall
Apples and pears
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:23 PM GMT
social welfare more generous in ROI than UK

4% is about as low as unemployment will ever go
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:24 PM GMT
It’s ludicrous to compare the south of Ireland to Britain or America or Germany
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:25 PM GMT
Yes it’s not about the unemployed , I’m saying how many in work ,
1 million , 2 ?
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:25 PM GMT
ludicrous to compare UK to US

huge difference in GNI

UK, Germany, France and ROI all similar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_(nominal)_per_capita
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:26 PM GMT
100 years ago the south of ireland was poorer than NI, Wales, Eng or Scot

now it is richer
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:27 PM GMT
Germany's numbers were probbaly much higher before they absorbed the east
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:28 PM GMT
100 years ago it wasn’t poorer
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:29 PM GMT
yes it was

100 years the south of ireland was the poorest part of the UK

Dublin was a sithole

there was nothing happening apart from whiskey, biscuits and farming
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:31 PM GMT
I don’t know not having been there , imo it was much of a muchness everywhere in Great Britain and Ireland 100 years ago
Very very similar
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:31 PM GMT
Belfast used to be bigger than Dublin

all the wealth was in the north east
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:32 PM GMT
early 1900s Dublin had the worst slums in europe
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:33 PM GMT
Tripe
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:33 PM GMT
why do you think so many irish went to GB? Liverpool, Glasgow, London etc
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:35 PM GMT
See they were burning buses in Newtownards this morning
as lp alludes to
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:36 PM GMT
Irish workers lived in terrible conditions in tenements. For example, an astonishing 835 people lived in 15 houses in Henrietta Street's Georgian tenements.

At number 10, Henrietta Street, the Irish Sisters of Charity ran a laundry inhabited by more than 50 single women.[1]

An estimated four million pledges were taken in pawnbrokers every year. The infant mortality rate among the poor was 142 per 1,000 births, extraordinarily high for a European city.

The situation was made considerably worse by the high rate of disease in the slums, which was the result of a lack of health care and cramped living conditions, among other things.

The most prevalent disease in the Dublin slums at this time was tuberculosis (TB), which spread through tenements very quickly and caused many deaths amongst the poor.

A report, published in 1912, found that TB-related deaths in Ireland were 50% higher than in England or Scotland. The vast majority of TB-related deaths in Ireland occurred among the poorer classes. This updated a 1903 study by Dr John Lumsden.

Poverty was perpetuated in Dublin by the lack of work for unskilled workers, who lacked any form of representation before trade unions were founded.

These unskilled workers often had to compete with one another for work every day, the job generally going to whoever agreed to work for the lowest wages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_lock-out#Dublin_slums
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:36 PM GMT
one of my grandparents was born in what was basically a tenement
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:36 PM GMT
NI protocol protest
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:37 PM GMT
So what , same for us all
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:47 PM GMT
What people fail to understand is that in NI eg even through the 30 or 40 years of the troubles
Life was generally good and prosperous and full of untold freedoms and opportunities for everyone
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:50 PM GMT
Exactly the same as anywhere else in Britain
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:51 PM GMT
In 1987 loyalists working at Shorts erected loyalists flags and bunting to intimidate the Catholic workers. The loyalists workers went on strike after management removed the loyalist flags from the shop floor.[31]

...


In 1993 a Catholic sub-contractor at Shorts was shot dead and five others injured in a loyalist attack on a mini-bus full of Catholic workmen in an attack to discourage Catholics from taking jobs at Shorts.[33]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Brothers#Loyalist_paramilitaries
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 8:52 PM GMT
did this type of stuff happen in Ipswich
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:57 PM GMT
I can assure you that’s not a fair picture you are painting . Giuseppe do you know a close relative of Bobby Sands worked in Shorts ?
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:57 PM GMT
And he wasn’t in work on the day of the funeral
Report Wallflower November 1, 2021 8:59 PM GMT
nope,

Point is Ireland is on top of all OECD Human Development Indices, along with likes of Norway, Switzerland, etc. In terms of national wealth they play it downwards!!  Of course, not wishing to highlight the amount of US investment. Every goddam CEO is US seems to believe they are Irish.  They also play down their GDP and how it impacts average 'well-being'/. I worked there for 3 years - there is no comparison to Uk. Poverty in Ireland is lower middle class in UK. FACT.


Visit an average irish towns and compare to Uk cities - their health, clothes, skin, demeanour etc etc - doesn't have the latent desperation amd violence of much of the UK.I appreciate cities and towns are different, but some of our towns are worse than most cities
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 8:59 PM GMT
Now that’s in the heart of loyalist Belfast
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 9:01 PM GMT
Some towns in England are **** granted wallflower , London eg
Report Giuseppe November 1, 2021 9:01 PM GMT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harland_%26_Wolff#The_war_years

During the 1920s, Catholic workers were routinely expelled from working in the shipyard.[9][10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harland_%26_Wolff#Post-war_period

The shipyard had a long-standing reputation as a Protestant closed shop, and in 1970, during the Troubles, 500 Catholic workers were expelled from their role.[11]
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 9:04 PM GMT
By the way the Short brothers factory used to stop for their annual summer holiday the 12th week
The factory closed . The Friday before their wasn’t much work done and everything stopped while band and bagpipes paraded in the factory lol
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 9:05 PM GMT
Of course there were flags - the Union Jack
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 9:06 PM GMT
Not sure if that happened in Ipswich
Report lfc1971 November 1, 2021 9:09 PM GMT
By the way sands relative was a manager or something like that , suit and tie- he had a good job
Report lapsy pa November 4, 2021 10:29 AM GMT
They left the buses alone last night and just burned bins in protest against the NIP,a 12 and 15 year old were arrested.
Bit young to realise that the problem is brexit,enouraged to them by Arlene and the DUP.
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 8:40 AM GMT
How well NI businness is doing;

Google,'RTE Northern Irelands manufacturers see benefits of Protocol'

A clear view on how good things actually are without the biased tory UK media, galling i know for some but that is the truth of it.
Report lfc1971 November 10, 2021 9:06 AM GMT
Potentially it could be very good for NI and the good parts won’t change
but the practicalities of trade have to be improved
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 6:18 PM GMT
The big stick is out now.

Make it work for everyone,Ireland,the UK, the EU, the unionist may have to be the loser if they play it that way but surely the welfare of NI's people is more important, play it which ever way you like.
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 6:55 PM GMT
All simply boils down to if NI is a 'success' it shows brexit for what it is(a crock o shyte) Scotland must surely be watching,they voted no.
Report brentford November 10, 2021 7:04 PM GMT
sky used to have tory leanings at one point...the idea that the BBC or some of the print media (guardian, independent)  are Tory supporters is just nonsense imo and I say that as someone that has never voted Conservative in my life..just in relation to such matters it was controversial legislation that forced the BBC to cease broadcasting Gerry Adams speeches not an editorial decision and most moderates (not strongly affiliated to either major UK party)  would accept that the beebs (the most important in terms of viewership) output is very middle ground with a hint of left
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 7:21 PM GMT
That is not unfair re Gerry Adams and the beeb,i understand it,there was sadly bombings in Britain itself which had nothing really to do with the average British person,however the beeb are only giving a mouthpiece now to Donaldson,the dup et al, they are practising double standards as the dup are the political wing of UVF,UDA.

So is this to facilitate the Torys and their aims? Talk of funding and all that.
Report brentford November 10, 2021 7:28 PM GMT
nothing really to do with the average British person  -

when they attempted to bomb the theatre during a military band concert within spitting distance of me, trust me it was lapsy..

regarding coverage of the DUP they (BBC) have to operate within set parameters of coverage of key or ruling parties which often includes and has included key republican figures getting their equivalent air time even in eras even when that was still more controversial...obviously the Major/Blair relations were far better both with Ireland and Republican NI...and that has now rightly removed controversy for most...
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 7:37 PM GMT
I didn't mean it as you took it Brentford,i meant British people suffered who were nearly unanimous in agreeing NI was Irish and a lot sympathised,i understand the reasons for the bombings but it was plain wrong it happenened there.Fwiw my windows shook something else with Canary Wharf.

I see very little from the majority getting any coverage.
Report brentford November 10, 2021 7:48 PM GMT
The truth Lapsy is that most people in Britain have no concept of the whole issue of NI so are rarely worth a token nod regarding their outlook..
NI itself I suspect conveniently is largely kept of British news to an almost ridiculous extent..

The DUP limelight was obviously increased by what any of us with sensitivities to the success of the Anglo-Irish agreement was an absolute abomination when May required their support to achieve credible (no not credible) governance not to mention Arlene's refusal to resign over the energy crisis...but on the more regional stuff it doesn't actually get much airtime...the Stormont stuff gets plenty on BBC Parliament and gets to speak for itself for anyone interested but really the only recent extra NI stuff has had legitimate coverage increase directly related to story profile.
Report peckerdunne November 10, 2021 7:54 PM GMT
Business across the divide mostly very happy with present situation, other than a tiny

minority.

It's painfully clear they now see business as a whole island issue, moving forward with prosperity and joint cooperation.

As Pa says, the genie is out now and it ain't going back.
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 8:10 PM GMT
To an outsider it is a bit of a headwreck Brentford,the whole lot stems from unionists trying to keep their 'supremacy' at the expense of Catholics,time for a change of simple equality,the North have agreat opportunity.
I still believe my op is correct,a prospering NI and a floundering UK with brexit,the Scots will rightly have the mads.The Torys are destroying the UK. Congrats on your football team,they came from nowhere.

Hello PD,hope all good with yourself.
Report peckerdunne November 10, 2021 8:25 PM GMT
All good Pa thanks, going to the match tomo, should be good craic, bar  inis mor last month with wife and son, first real social outing in a very long time.

Keep well Pa, all you got, health and family.
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 8:37 PM GMT
I hope to be over this time next month with Mrs Lapsy PD,really looking forward to it and hope things stay stable at the v least. Enjoy the match and throw a few fecks at Ronaldo for me please Grin
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 8:49 PM GMT
Can't read through all the thread, but if someone could please give me a synopsis including what NIP means, no offence pa, I would be very grateful.
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk November 10, 2021 8:53 PM GMT
googles it = ninjas in pyjamas Shocked
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 9:03 PM GMT
Hello HGS,NIP= Northern Ireland Protocol.

NI remains in Eu single market
NI remains in UK for administrative,lecal and customs purposes.

Goods from GB to NI are subject to checks by NI inspectors, no custom duty paid obv.

Think that's it,do you want Peckerd to throw some fecks at Ronaldo too?
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 9:24 PM GMT
Evening lapsy, hope you are well. They can throw what they like at Ronaldo for all I care! Laugh

Will be a mess for a while yet, but the crux of it is, the UK are out of the EU!
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 9:37 PM GMT
Thanks v much,i'm fine HGS, i,m not saying anything about being out of the EU,you held a referendum and acted on the results,i understood it in part.

It isn't a good thing though for the UK,sovereignty and onions aren't a good mix,Frosts carry on with wanting to suspend the NI part of brexit is ludicrous,if you are out,be out and do it properly,the EU will respond by a likely trade war,it will be messy and will only hit those who cannot afford it.
Report Wallflower November 10, 2021 9:39 PM GMT
Will be a mess for a while yet, but the crux of it is, the UK are out of the EU!.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is incorrect. the "crux of it", as it happens is that the UK is not out of the EU. GB is out of the EU.
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 9:42 PM GMT
Like I said, a mess but does it really have to be? Things will move on, they always have.
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 9:43 PM GMT
That was for pa lapsy. Sorry wallflower, have I missed summat?
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 9:43 PM GMT
This may yet go Scotlands way Wallflower,everyone knows the pack of lies re trade,the world is watching and i think fairly united.
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 9:46 PM GMT
HGS i have given links for the meeting with policyuk,they are v afraid of NI being a 'success'
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 9:49 PM GMT
'success' meaning? I personally wish all of Ireland success, just like UK, GB or whatever people like to call it. Happy
Report Wallflower November 10, 2021 9:51 PM GMT
HallGreenSpy 10 Nov 21 21:43 
That was for pa lapsy. Sorry wallflower, have I missed summat?
----------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know.  The Northern Ireland protocol effectively keeps NI in the EU ( for trade and services ).  A good deal for them as they are both in EU (haven't left) and UK.

So really only GB has left the EU, not the UK.

Although a good deal the 'crux' of the matter is that unionists in NI don't like it - for political reasons.

But don't what you seem to be missing?
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 9:53 PM GMT
I know you do,you are a gentleman. The UK is in the height of trouble,huge debt,-4% of GDP whereas covid was -2%,exports plummeting,i am saying what i truthfully believe HGS that there is an almighty cover up .
Report brentford November 10, 2021 9:55 PM GMT
what are you putting Germany's current troubling economic trends down to Lapsy ?
Report brentford November 10, 2021 9:59 PM GMT
crippled by supply shortages currently that some would have had us believe was purely a Brexit thang
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 10:03 PM GMT
I don't know much about it tbh Brentford,i know you are saying it for a reason and i'll listen to that however,£2 trillion+ debt,worse than what the lads were laughing at the Italians about,exports gone pete tong, the news list is huge,shtty rivers,chronic key labour shorages,supply problems,lorry drivers,agriculture,sleaze,inflation,fuel, it is a long list,you hear about it,the sheet will hit the fan, when?
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 10:03 PM GMT
I refer back to moving on and being ok. I'm sure we all will be. Will take a while though.
Report brentford November 10, 2021 10:08 PM GMT
I'm just saying it for context Lapsy, many of the issues that were being attached with 'Brexit' are being seen throughout economies, especially European and Western ones,
I don't doubt Brexit has a part to play in increasing risk to those factors especially in the short term...but as neither a supporter or endorser of it I do find the headlines of convenience on both sides tiresome (and that's certainly not aimed at you incidentally)
Report lapsy pa November 10, 2021 10:13 PM GMT
Probably HGS,some will struggle mightily(remember we will all prosper mightily?)still being made a fool of by blatant liars sticks in the graw.

You are correct Brentford in a lot of issues are down to covid though many merge,however i do think things are heading downhill and would be confident in 3/4 months time to bump this, i sincerely hope this 'NIP' doesn't get silly.
Report HallGreenSpy November 10, 2021 10:19 PM GMT
There was repeated lies and scaremongering on both sides. Bottom line is we have what we have and for all sides again, we have to move on.
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com