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frog1000
09 Oct 21 10:27
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Date Joined: 25 Jan 01
| Topic/replies: 2,802 | Blogger: frog1000's blog
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10074327/Still-keen-green-bills-arrived-ANDREW-NEIL-warns-storms-come.html

He pushes the need to combat climate change with the same gusto with which he used to excoriate all forms of greenery when he was a mere newspaper columnist.

With the zeal of the convert, Boris Johnson will pose as the Jolly Green Giant when he hosts world leaders for the global climate jamboree known as COP26 in Glasgow next month, leading the international charge against CO2 emissions and to the promised land of a new green economy.

Ambitious targets for slashing UK emissions have been set. Then made legally binding. Then made even more ambitious still.


Still keen on green now your that bill's arrived? Carbon zero is a glorious goal. But as our leaders use it to burnish their halos, the true cost is finally hitting home. ANDREW NEIL warns of storms to come

By Andrew Neil For The Daily Mail

Published: 22:50, 8 October 2021 | Updated: 01:26, 9 October 2021

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He pushes the need to combat climate change with the same gusto with which he used to excoriate all forms of greenery when he was a mere newspaper columnist.

With the zeal of the convert, Boris Johnson will pose as the Jolly Green Giant when he hosts world leaders for the global climate jamboree known as COP26 in Glasgow next month, leading the international charge against CO2 emissions and to the promised land of a new green economy.

Ambitious targets for slashing UK emissions have been set. Then made legally binding. Then made even more ambitious still.

Plans are being concocted to force fundamental changes in our lives, from how we heat our homes to how we cook, what we should drive and even how much flying and meat-eating should be tolerated. Investment is being ramped up to ensure renewable energy plays an ever-expanding role in electricity generation.

All governments, of course, have a duty to tackle climate change, which is real and potentially dangerous on so many fronts. But getting from where we are now to a greener economy with net zero emissions (or close to it) is expensive, disruptive and difficult.

The Government has a duty to give us the full picture and not just grandstand on the world stage with uncosted green rhetoric. Otherwise, when push comes to shove, the Government will not be able to carry the people, as President Macron found out in France three years ago when he tried to raise fuel prices to reduce consumption and sparked off the yellow-vest protests.

In other words, the Jolly Green Giant needs to come clean on the fact that his environmental deal will generate Jolly Big Bills, which we will be forced to foot.

So far all Johnson has offered is a menu without prices. The green virtue-signalling has grown ever louder but the associated costs aren't even whispered. What will the Great British public think about the glorious virtues of greenery now the bill's finally arriving?

When I interviewed Chancellor Rishi Sunak in June, I asked him to outline the full and true cost of getting to net zero. He was unable to do so, either because he didn't know or because it was too large a figure to present to an unsuspecting public.

But that's now all changing. The bills for going green are now coming in. Prepare to be shocked — and poorer.

For a start, take a close look at your annual household energy bill. On average, it's now £1,300, having just risen by almost £140.

By spring it could be closer to £1,700. Some energy experts say it could even nudge £2,000, which would bring real hardship to many homes.

Now, energy prices are rising across the globe and the reasons are beyond any one government's control. The robust V-shaped nature of the global economy's post-pandemic recovery surprised energy companies, leading to worldwide shortages of oil and gas.

China is scouring the globe for gas to keep its industries working and the lights on, pushing up prices to an incredible seven times their level of a year ago. Kremlin mischief makes the shortages even worse as President Putin cuts supplies to Europe to force it to accept Russian gas on his terms.

But at so many turns our Government's green obsessions have made things worse. Household energy bills — already soaring — are pushed 25 per cent higher by a variety of green and social levies whose proceeds are used to finance the switch to renewables and the decarbonisation of the economy.

Plentiful gas supplies could have been secured at a reasonable price if the Government had proceeded to exploit the massive reserves of shale gas on which Britain sits. But two years ago, after almost a decade of failure and running scared of powerful environmental lobbies, it turned its back on 'fracking', a process of getting gas out of the ground which had ended America's dependence on Middle East fossil fuels and turned it into a net exporter of energy.

In his speech to the Tory conference last week, Johnson talked of the raw deal northern towns such as Blackpool suffer because of the way our economy is configured. But that part of the North West has some of the biggest shale gas reserves in Europe. Fracking would have brought thousands of well-paid jobs to Blackpool and many other parts of the North, as well as securing cheap gas supplies.

But the Government preferred to burnish its green credentials and turned its back on fracking. As a result, instead of raising the living standards of people in places such as Blackpool, it stuffs billions of pounds into the pockets of despots from Moscow to the Gulf who sell us gas we can't do without at increasingly extravagant prices. I don't think that's what most of us understand by levelling up.

It's not as if the Government didn't know we would need copious supplies of natural gas for the foreseeable future. It still accounts for 40 per cent of all our electricity generation, more when the wind doesn't blow, which has been the case quite a lot this year.

No country is immune from the vagaries of global energy markets. But our Government has an uncanny knack of making difficult situations worse. Nor does it seem capable of learning from its mistakes. In the past 24 hours it was reported the Government plans to refuse Shell permission to develop further its Jackdaw gas field in the North Sea, which could meet 15 per cent of UK household gas consumption.

But Johnson clearly wants nothing to do with fossil fuels in the run-up to Glasgow, even if it means Putin and the Emir of Qatar will be further enriched by British treasure.

The spike in the cost of home heating and cooking — essential spending which no household can avoid and which hit the poor hardest — couldn't come at a worse time.

Inflation is rearing its costly head again. Prices are rising on everything from food to second-hand cars. True, wages are now rising strongly too but often not by as much as prices. So living standards are being squeezed at a time when the Government is already hitting household budgets.

The rise in National Insurance contributions will reduce take-home pay. So will the freezing of income tax thresholds. Town halls are threatening big rises in council tax. Government ministers won't rule out further tax rises.

Taken together, all this amounts to a serious assault on living standards, which is why the energy issue is now taking centre-stage in the political debate. It's a pity the Prime Minister was more interested in telling jokes than telling us what the Government intends to do about it when he spoke to the Tory faithful in Manchester on Wednesday.

Worse is to come. Though ministers have been suspiciously silent on the matter, it is clear the Government's net zero strategy will require gas boilers, cookers and fires to be ripped out of our homes and replaced by heat-pump systems, which are more expensive and less efficient.

Heat pumps work best with good insulation, so the combined cost of replacing your boiler and upgrading the insulation could be close to £20,000 at today's prices. Nobody has explained who will pay for all this. No doubt there will be some subsidy, especially for low-income households. But I suspect most homeowners will have to pick up the bulk of the bill themselves.

As the boilers are being replaced at some cost, the Government also plans to point us firmly in the direction of electric vehicles. Some time early in the next decade there will likely be no choice about it. EVs will become more affordable. But the overall cost will be huge.

Decarbonising transport — which net zero requires — will double or even treble current demand for electricity. The grid is struggling to meet existing demand. Dirty coal-fired stations have been fired up because the wind has been weak and gas supplies scarce. The National Grid nervously assures us it can keep the lights on this winter. Industry, however, might struggle.

Just how we double capacity — with what and at what cost — is only one of the many mysteries of the Johnson green economy.

So are green jobs. Politicians are always boasting about the employment the green economy will create — especially in the North, Johnson likes to add. Sadly, it's a chimera. Our wind turbines are being built in Europe and our solar panels in China. We've pretty much missed out on the manufacturing of both. What green jobs we do have were hugely expensive to create and often don't last for long.

And the zero-carbon economy can destroy more jobs than it creates. One consequence of a decade of greenery is that our industrial energy costs are now twice that of our European competitors. Heavy industry, from steel to chemicals, is struggling to compete. The jobs in jeopardy are in the North. Another setback for levelling up.

As we have seen, the overall cost of the Johnson green deal is as yet unknown. Most experts say it will be at least £1 trillion over the next two decades or so. Some say it's more likely to be closer to £3 trillion all up. Whatever the cost, consumers and taxpayers will foot the bill. And for what?

Britain now accounts for only 1 per cent of global CO2 emissions. Even if net zero can be achieved, it will make very little difference to the overall global climate change picture. The Government says we have to set an example. But the idea that China or India will be impressed and follow suit is a fantasy.

They have their own agendas and Britain doesn't feature on any of them. They are also savvy enough to know that a major way we have cut emissions has been via the loss of manufacturing to other countries with plants belching out pollution, whose output we then import. It hardly makes for a greener planet.

For Britain to spend so much to achieve so little would seem the height of folly. China has enough coal-fired capacity to generate 1,000 gigawatts of electricity. Power stations capable of generating another 100 gigawatts are in the process of being built.

Britain's total generating capacity is 75 gigawatts. So China is about to add more coal-fired capacity than we have total capacity from all sources.

This is not to say that Britain should do nothing. There are many ways in which we can become greener, cleaner and more efficient in our use of energy without worshipping at the costly shrine of net zero. We need a system which has nuclear power providing the base load, renewables an increasing part of the mix and gas capacity to click in when power generated by renewables is intermittent.

This should have been our policy for the past decade. Instead, energy policy has ricocheted all over the place with green rhetoric increasingly a substitute for credible policy.

We also need to unleash our world-class research and development to produce step changes in battery storage and carbon capture. Politicians talk as if both were a reality. On the scale required, they are not. Yet without them net zero is unattainable. It is part of the dishonesty of current green policy that ministers mortgage our future to scientific breakthroughs that have yet to happen.

Above all, the Government needs to trust the people. The utopian aspirations of so much green rhetoric need to meet the harsh reality of everyday life. People want a cleaner, greener planet. But they will not tolerate a green strategy that involves posh folk telling plain folk what they must do. Especially when the posh folk are doing very nicely out of greenery and the plain folk are picking up the tab.

That way lies failure on all fronts. It need not be like that. But the successful transition to a greener economy cannot be solely the concept of an elite while everybody else is expected meekly to fall in line. It is not too late to democratise our green strategy. And in the meantime? My advice is to pray for a mild winter.
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Report PorcupineorPineapple October 9, 2021 10:33 AM BST
*looks around*

"dunno man, maybe finding an alternative to gas and oil isn't such a bad idea right now"
Report Dr Crippen October 9, 2021 11:10 AM BST
We're living on an island built on coal, with an immense supply of shale gas there for the taking. And North has not run out yet.

Yet the politicians have created an energy emergency, using dodgy science as their excuse.

That takes some doing.

And goes well beyond incompetence.
Report 1st time poster October 9, 2021 11:19 AM BST
we,re a banana republic just heard a CEO of a bristol based energy provider to 700,000 customerssay their struggling because their customers WONT LEAVE THEM LaughLaughLaughLaugh,
THEIR BUSINESS MODEL IS BASED ON   at least 20% of their customers leaving them every year to get better deals, now no one can beat the price cap their stuck with customers that their having to pay gas prices of 7 ties higher than their model was built on to carry on providing them with a service LaughLaughLaughLaugh,

we,re going to hell in a handcart buckle up and enjoy johnsons demise or jump out of the car LaughLaugh
Report 1st time poster October 9, 2021 11:21 AM BST
todays DAILY MAIL of all papers is like reading something from the 1970,s, funniest thing ive read in years,time to give your blue passports a cuddle,you,ll be burning them soon to keep warm LaughLaugh
Report politicspunter October 9, 2021 11:24 AM BST

Oct 9, 2021 -- 5:19AM, 1st time poster wrote:


we,re a banana republic just heard a CEO of a bristol based energy provider to 700,000 customerssay their struggling because their customers WONT LEAVE THEM ,THEIR BUSINESS MODEL IS BASED ON

Report politicspunter October 9, 2021 11:25 AM BST
Incredible situation but there must be many similar.
Report 1st time poster October 9, 2021 11:27 AM BST
capitalism aint it.dont you just love it LaughLaugh
more competition cheaper prices for everyone Laugh
Report 1st time poster October 9, 2021 11:29 AM BST
anyone seen this one in the right wing capitalist free market hand book before

to stop us going under we,re begging 25% of our customers to leave

wonder who,,ll be the 1st to tryand pay customers to leave Laugh
Report Dr Crippen October 9, 2021 11:38 AM BST
Everywhere we look, from the NHS to energy supplies, from illegal immigration to ineffective policing.
All gone wrong.

Shortages of truck drivers because civil servants are too idle to process licence applications.

Almost every public sector department is bedevilled by government incompetence, and bone-idle public sector workers.
Report Dr Crippen October 9, 2021 11:39 AM BST
And the lefties want even bigger government!
Report 1st time poster October 9, 2021 11:48 AM BST
those bone idle public sector workers no they can bring uk to its knees in days when ever they like ,wait till they start demanding the 20% pay rises to reach pay levels the loony tory mp,s think everyone should be getting.
everyone laughed only 3 months ago when nhs workers asked for 15% pay rise ,with soaring inflation they,d need 20% plus to reach this £15 level every tory mp noe thinks everyone should be getting
they cant get butchers for £15 plus an hr but expect highly skilled live saving nurses on a daily basis to work for £13 an hr,

the mad loony tory mp,s have  let a pay genie out of the bottle that they,ll be unable to put back in,
zawani education sec thinks he might be able to squeeze a pay rise out of sunak for teachers in this months spending review if its not 10% plus teachers /unions will just laugh in their face and take industrial action the same for rest of public sector workers,refuge collectors will be next in line as they leave to go hgv drivers
tory,s/brexiteers will be hiding under the bed,no good news for years for them
Report Timber October 9, 2021 11:49 AM BST
What are the lefties laughing it, it would be even worse under those imbeciles

GO GREEN, go BLUE with hyperthermia

What's the obsession with accelerating this green nonsense to cause utter misery to the people

Get fracking or get f*cked
Report politicspunter October 9, 2021 11:52 AM BST
I think it was North Somerset council that said they had lost five HGV bin drivers in a fortnight.
Report Dr Crippen October 9, 2021 12:08 PM BST
they cant get butchers for £15 plus an hr but expect highly skilled live saving nurses on a daily basis to work for £13 an hr,

Which would you rather do?
Piecework with the one, that means you only get paid for what you do. Working in appalling conditions.
No sick pay or proper pension, and liable to be laid off at anytime and lose your house if it's mortgaged.

Or have a decent job for life, with pay increases guaranteed, and a splendid pension at the end

And they wonder why nobody wants to work in the private sector.
Report Charlie October 9, 2021 4:20 PM BST

Oct 9, 2021 -- 5:39AM, Dr Crippen wrote:


And the lefties want even bigger government!


If you replace bigger with better then you're correct.

Report clouded leopard October 9, 2021 5:04 PM BST
All engineered

We were told a long time ago these things would occur

Have people actually read up on The Great Reset yet or do they still think it's a conspiracy theory ?


Time's a ticking and a tocking

Much more woe to come.


Demand destruction, perpetual shortages, taxes and inflation

The monetary system you grew up with is DEAD

Most of us are simply not necessary for the new agenda so they'll bleed your wealth from hereon in
Report Charlie October 9, 2021 5:57 PM BST

Oct 9, 2021 -- 11:04AM, clouded leopard wrote:


All engineeredWe were told a long time ago these things would occurHave people actually read up on The Great Reset yet or do they still think it's a conspiracy theory ?Time's a ticking and a tockingMuch more woe to come.Demand destruction, perpetual shortages, taxes and inflationThe monetary system you grew up with is DEADMost of us are simply not necessary for the new agenda so they'll bleed your wealth from hereon in


Yep absolutely, The Great Reset is a conspiracy theory only believed by nutters.

Report lapsy pa October 9, 2021 6:07 PM BST
No plane flights,cars off the road through lockdowns,now gas and electricity prices out of control,everyone will be cutting down on leccy,petrol gas.

I am not for a minute agreeing but saying it is very coincidental,there does seem to be a lot falling into climate changes agendas.

Quite uncanny really,i know Russia mucking around with the gas,the lockdowns necessary for hospitals but....
Report Dr Crippen October 9, 2021 6:38 PM BST
It's always Putin's fault.

Vlad killed Crock Robin.
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 9, 2021 6:59 PM BST
****
Report edy October 9, 2021 7:06 PM BST

Oct 9, 2021 -- 11:04AM, clouded leopard wrote:


All engineeredWe were told a long time ago these things would occurHave people actually read up on The Great Reset yet or do they still think it's a conspiracy theory ?Time's a ticking and a tockingMuch more woe to come.Demand destruction, perpetual shortages, taxes and inflationThe monetary system you grew up with is DEADMost of us are simply not necessary for the new agenda so they'll bleed your wealth from hereon in


Why is that bad?

Report 1st time poster October 10, 2021 10:24 AM BST
BUILD BACK VLADDER
Report Timber October 10, 2021 11:25 AM BST

Oct 9, 2021 -- 1:06PM, edy wrote:


Oct 9, 2021 -- 4:04PM, clouded leopard wrote:All engineeredWe were told a long time ago these things would occurHave people actually read up on The Great Reset yet or do they still think it's a conspiracy theory ?Time's a ticking and a tockingMuch more woe to come.Demand destruction, perpetual shortages, taxes and inflationThe monetary system you grew up with is DEADMost of us are simply not necessary for the new agenda so they'll bleed your wealth from hereon inWhy is that bad?


edy is a Klaus Schwab acolyte

You'll own nothing and be happy

You vill eat ze bugs

Report Timber October 10, 2021 11:26 AM BST

Oct 9, 2021 -- 11:57AM, Charlie wrote:


Oct 9, 2021 -- 4:04PM, clouded leopard wrote:All engineeredWe were told a long time ago these things would occurHave people actually read up on The Great Reset yet or do they still think it's a conspiracy theory ?Time's a ticking and a tockingMuch more woe to come.Demand destruction, perpetual shortages, taxes and inflationThe monetary system you grew up with is DEADMost of us are simply not necessary for the new agenda so they'll bleed your wealth from hereon inYep absolutely, The Great Reset is a conspiracy theory only believed by nutters.


Everything is a conspiracy to proper Charlie

A complete fruitcake of the highest order

Report 1st time poster October 10, 2021 12:50 PM BST
even if desirable or not johnsons [ carries ] climate targets arnt going to come even close to be met
theres little gov money for subsidises
average voter hasnt got the money
and any gov help. grants /sweeteners are going to come far to late
Report Foinavon October 10, 2021 5:28 PM BST
I look on with amazement. If XR, Insulate Britain, Greta and others are right then it's already too late. Do any of these people really believe that if we, or even the EU, achieve net zero by 2030 it will make one iota of difference to the Armageddon timeline they foretell? Do they believe that if we do this that China will take one iota of notice bar making palliative sound bites? I would like to see cleaner air in urban areas, of course, and that means getting all the older diesel vehicles off the streets,(another Blair, Brown, EU folly) nothing more drastic is required, we've done enough already in other areas.
Report edy October 10, 2021 5:43 PM BST
Timber • October 10, 2021 11:25 AM BST
edy is a Klaus Schwab acolyte

You'll own nothing and be happy

You vill eat ze bugs


There won't ever be a situation where people will own nothing. Work hard and invest wisely if you don't want to eat bugs instead of moaning about supposed evil plots of the elites like someone with a huge victim complex.
Report Charlie October 10, 2021 6:23 PM BST
Timber • October 10, 2021 11:26 AM BST
Everything is a conspiracy to proper Charlie
A complete fruitcake of the highest order


Thank you for that, if I thought the biggest idiot on here didn't think me a fruitcake then I would be worried.
Report Charlie October 10, 2021 6:24 PM BST
Nothing wrong with eating "bugs", they're a good source of protein.
Report politicspunter October 10, 2021 6:48 PM BST

Oct 10, 2021 -- 12:23PM, Charlie wrote:


Timber • October 10, 2021 11:26 AM BSTEverything is a conspiracy to proper CharlieA complete fruitcake of the highest orderThank you for that, if I thought the biggest idiot on here didn't think me a fruitcake then I would be worried.


But when is Trump going to be reinstated as President ? Timber has been saying this is imminent for nearly a year now.

Report Charlie October 10, 2021 6:52 PM BST
As soon as the audit of the audit of the audit is completed.
Report Pandoras October 10, 2021 8:06 PM BST
The problem is simple and has now come to a head. My late Father said 15 years ago, working as a guide in Nuclear Power stations, that the only way the World can meet the energy demands of the future is to build Nuclear Power stations, They are the most cost effective and easiest way to produce ever increasing energy demands. But after Chernobyl the panic of people stopped that. Eventually when we realise that Green energy, wind and Sun is nowhere near productive enough, we will return to Nuclear Power.

The simple problem with Governmwnts is they can't plan ahead. They just want to satisfy the cause of the moment and are shown research that pleases them. China showed what can be done by removing elections and setting a route to catch up with the rest of the World. I am not condoning Chinese policy on Human Rights, just showing the problem with Democracy and the need to win votes. In 10 years time there will be a mass demand around the world for Nuclear Power. Unless of course the Energy World War beats it. That is the only way we can cope without Fossil Fuels.
Report Giuseppe October 10, 2021 8:14 PM BST
think you might be right P

Fremch are laughing at everyone right now. 95% of their electricty comes from nuclear
Report Giuseppe October 10, 2021 8:14 PM BST
the French
Report Giuseppe October 10, 2021 8:15 PM BST
next door you have Germany burning coal, closing nuclear power stations and importing gas
Report shiny new shoes please October 10, 2021 9:53 PM BST
Does professer green get a job ?
Greta recommends
Comply
Report frog1000 October 10, 2021 10:03 PM BST
THe fact that they have inflitrated the schools with their climate change 'science' was a real worry.

But they are clearly accelarating the plan after seeing how people in the west complied over C19.

We are begging Russia for gas when there is plenty of gas ready and waiting in the UK but they refuse to take it out due to the 'science'.

It does not make sense to even a five year old.

We have gas. We refuse to use it due to virtual signalling of Boris (who has just jetted off yet again). So we beg Russia for it to stop ourselves from freezing to death and burn the same amount anyway having transported it thousands of miles.
Report frog1000 October 10, 2021 10:05 PM BST
Same thing happening in America.

Trump had USA energy independent.

Biden through it away 'following the green science' and now begging foreign counties for fossil fuels.

'Build Back Better'
Report frog1000 October 10, 2021 10:06 PM BST
Western society is eating itself whilst China and the others burn what they want to build wind machines and solar panels for the vegan virtue signallers.
Report frog1000 October 10, 2021 10:08 PM BST
The west cannot compete in heavy (or any?) industry with people like Biden and Boris doing what they are doing.
Report shiny new shoes please October 10, 2021 10:20 PM BST
It's only the beginning ExcitedGrin

Buckle your seatbelt Dorothy, 'cause Kansas is going bye-bye!
Love from China
Report edy October 10, 2021 10:29 PM BST

Oct 10, 2021 -- 4:06PM, frog1000 wrote:


Western society is eating itself whilst China and the others burn what they want to build wind machines and solar panels for the vegan virtue signallers.


I don't think Biden and Boris are vegans.

Report edy October 10, 2021 10:36 PM BST
The western countries burn whatever they want either way, regardless of your increasingly unhinged ramblings about T-H-E-M having infiltrated schools with T-H-E-I-R 'science' and vegan virtue-signallers.
Report edy October 10, 2021 10:38 PM BST
At least you stopped calling centre/centre-right politicians "radical leftists" every second sentence I guess.
Report Giuseppe October 10, 2021 10:40 PM BST
is leylah going to win tonight edy
Report edy October 10, 2021 10:41 PM BST
wrong thread, mug.
Report Timber October 11, 2021 9:01 AM BST

Oct 10, 2021 -- 11:43AM, edy wrote:


Timber • October 10, 2021 11:25 AM BSTedy is a Klaus Schwab acolyteYou'll own nothing and be happyYou vill eat ze bugsThere won't ever be a situation where people will own nothing. Work hard and invest wisely if you don't want to eat bugs instead of moaning about supposed evil plots of the elites like someone with a huge victim complex.


That's what Schwab said

As somebody who is housebound, you probably haven't noticed that young people are finding it harder and harder to get on the property ladder

In the US, Blackrock are buying gazillions of properties and turning people into serfs.

Report Timber October 11, 2021 9:05 AM BST

Oct 10, 2021 -- 12:24PM, Charlie wrote:


Nothing wrong with eating "bugs", they're a good source of protein.


Midwits like you should be forced to live on solar power and bugs during the winter

Let's see how far you get before you start crying

Report Timber October 11, 2021 9:07 AM BST
ALL the crusty tree huggers should have gas and electric cut off in their homes... and their vehicles seized
Report edy October 11, 2021 11:03 AM BST
Allow me to be somewhat sceptical towards your predictions after you promised about five times that Trump would totes for certain be back in office at various points in time.
Report edy October 11, 2021 11:04 AM BST
You even lost a bet on it that you are failing to honour.
Report edy October 11, 2021 11:10 AM BST
Timber • October 11, 2021 9:01 AM BST
That's what Schwab said

As somebody who is housebound, you probably haven't noticed that young people are finding it harder and harder to get on the property ladder

In the US, Blackrock are buying gazillions of properties and turning people into serfs.


You are such a communist sometimes. That's capitalism, baby!
Report 1st time poster October 11, 2021 11:16 AM BST
liberty steel reopening today,

i no a little about the so called new green steel made from recycling old steel through an ELECTRIC ARC FURNACE

and ive been repeatedly told this method needs a staggering amount of power/electricity.energy ,unless theyve been told they,ll get gov/taxpayers help they,ll pish their new 50 million investment up the wall in a matter of weeks
Report Charlie October 11, 2021 3:39 PM BST

Oct 11, 2021 -- 5:16AM, 1st time poster wrote:


liberty steel reopening today,i no a little about the so called new green steel made from recycling old steel through an ELECTRIC ARC FURNACEand ive been repeatedly told this method needs a staggering amount of power/electricity.energy ,unless theyve been told they,ll get gov/taxpayers help they,ll pish their new 50 million investment up the wall in a matter of weeks


Not so sure about that. There appears to be a lot of support for Green Steel albeit it is still in the experimental stage and is currently more expensive to produce:

https://www.ft.com/content/46d4727c-761d-43ee-8084-ee46edba491a

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/green-steel-produced-first-time-180978550/

There are many more links about this.

Report 1st time poster October 11, 2021 4:28 PM BST
experiemental stage been used for 50 yrs and more,worked in an electric arc furnace 45 yrs ago when serving my time
Report Charlie October 11, 2021 4:51 PM BST

Oct 11, 2021 -- 10:28AM, 1st time poster wrote:


experiemental stage been used for 50 yrs and more,worked in an electric arc furnace 45 yrs ago when serving my time


I'm respectful of that but it doesn't make you an expert on Green Steel.

Report Foinavon October 11, 2021 4:53 PM BST
The FT article posted by Charlie looks a fair assessment.
It's unlikely the modern world can get by just recycling scrap in the carbon arc process and fresh iron will still need to be produced from naturally occurring iron oxide. The alternatives to using coke as the reducing agent look extremely expensive in comparison so will be uncompetitive unless the industry worldwide agrees to do this and everyone pays a lot more for steel and the products made from it.
Report Giuseppe October 11, 2021 5:07 PM BST
just saw Lidl have a vending machine where you can pop in empty drinks cans and plastic bottles and get credit for the store

has anyone done this? how much do they pay?
Report edy October 11, 2021 5:07 PM BST
Plain
Report Giuseppe October 11, 2021 5:11 PM BST
send us your empties edy mate
Report Foinavon October 11, 2021 5:13 PM BST
You will make more money if you sit outside the shop and rattle a tin can Beppe. Begging is a profession requiring local knowledge and physical endurance especially in winter but judging by the growing number of participants is probably worth the effort.
Report 1st time poster October 11, 2021 5:16 PM BST
as a kid i was surrounded by new house building sites made a nice little earner taking lemonade bottles back
Report Giuseppe October 11, 2021 5:18 PM BST
seems to be aluminium drinks cans and plastic drinks bottles (like innoceent smoothies) they are after
Report politicspunter October 11, 2021 5:22 PM BST
Giuseppe is a scammer. He followed me around begging me to lend him money. When I agreed (it was a five figure sum), he refused to give me his personal information, that I had requested, in order that I could forward the money. He is a fraudster, who now follows me around the forum, every thread and every post, being abusive. Block the scammer, do not respond to him and above all do not open any of his links. You have been warned!
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