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frog1000
16 Sep 21 12:12
Joined:
Date Joined: 25 Jan 01
| Topic/replies: 2,798 | Blogger: frog1000's blog
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/16/england-care-homes-may-be-forced-to-close-as-covid-jab-deadline-looms

Care homes may be forced to close and thousands of staff risk losing their jobs if they decline to receive their first Covid-19 vaccine by the end of Thursday, ministers have been warned.

Providers and unions have warned of an exodus of staff in England due to the government’s requirement for them to be fully vaccinated against coronavirus by 11 November. Thursday has been set as their last opportunity for a first dose unless they are medically exempt.

Andy Burnham, the mayor of Greater Manchester, said the mandatory vaccination policy was “very unfair” and that about 2,000 of the region’s care home workers faced losing their jobs overnight unless they received their first jab within hours.
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Burnham said carers were being “singled out” by the government, although the health and social care secretary, Sajid Javid, has said that the policy was “highly likely” to be extended to frontline NHS staff after a consultation.

Ministers have previously said they estimate that about 7% of the 570,000 CQC-registered care home staff in England – about 40,000 people – will refuse the vaccine and therefore no longer be able to care for elderly residents after 11 November.

Prof Martin Green, the chief executive of Care England, the biggest provider of private care homes in the country, said the policy would deepen the sector’s staffing crisis and could force some homes to close.

“We all accept we want as many people as possible to be vaccinated. But I do feel the government has gone forward with the social care compulsion without understanding the implications, without having a thought-out plan on how they are going to deal with staff shortages,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Thursday.

“Care homes are now in a difficult position, facing the reality of do they have enough staff to maintain safety and quality of care? They are in the position of either having to transgress the law or expose people they support to levels of staffing that are not going to deliver the safety you’re required to.”

He added: “There’s the inevitability that in some areas, if you can’t get the staff, then there will be care homes that close.”

North Yorkshire council said about 400 of its 20,000 care sector staff had not yet received a vaccine, meaning they risk losing their jobs.

Burnham said about one in 10 of all health and social care staff in Greater Manchester were not vaccinated, including about 2,000 care home workers.

“It’s for different people to make their judgments about the vaccine but I do believe it’s very unfair to put people in a position where they have concerns but then have no ability to maintain their job, if they’ve chosen not to be vaccinated,” he said.

“It is the case also that staff are leaving social care to work in the NHS where there is no such restriction, so it’s hard to see the logic of this particular policy when it doesn’t apply more broadly. Either it shouldn’t apply at all, or it should apply more broadly.”

The Department of Health and Social Care has been approached for comment.
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Report peckerdunne September 16, 2021 4:34 PM BST
A free night out with beer and curry, problem resolved.
Report impossible123 September 16, 2021 6:43 PM BST
Absolute bonkers where evidence is clear non-jabbed could and would cause harm to their elderly inmates they're supposed to be caring. Also, non-jabbed could transmit the virus to care home visitors.

No matter how valuable care workers are jabbed personnel an absolute must unless medically exempt. End of!
Report frog1000 September 16, 2021 6:48 PM BST
It is clear double-jabbed could and would cause harm to their elderly inmates they're supposed to be caring. Also, double-jabbed could transmit the virus to care home visitors.

The virus is endemic. We will all get it eventually like everyone has had a cold and everyone has had the flu.

Best we can do is vax people that want it and develop better and better treatments.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 16, 2021 7:21 PM BST
Well we can actually do BETTER than that. We can fully protect the vulnerable and not just hope the vax is enough. We can put measures in place to minimise further spread and risk of variants developing. We can also accept that the chances of a non-vaccinated person catching and passing on the virus is multiple times higher than a vaccinated one. And we could maybe inform the residents of the care homes and their families about the numbers of unvaccinated staff work at that home so they can make an informed decision on which home to use.


I mean, there's plenty we can actually do really.
Report nineteen points September 16, 2021 7:33 PM BST
You say "multiple" times higher.how many times?
Report Cider September 16, 2021 7:51 PM BST
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 8:00 PM BST
A lot of non-vaccinated people have already had the virus.

I shoudn't think many health workers have escaped infection after all this time.

Some people don't even pick up the virus.
Report shiny new shoes please September 16, 2021 8:02 PM BST
ExcitedLove
Wipe away transgressions, set the captives free
Through the roads of creation
We, the generation, tread through great tribulation
Report impossible123 September 16, 2021 8:18 PM BST
I'd readily and willingly be in a close environment with fellow jabbers than non-jabbers. Whether the non-jabbers have had the virous or not is immaterial as non-jabbers would be more likely carriers/transmitters of the virus thus presenting a possible hazard to those they come into contact.

The case in point is the degree of potential risk to others.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 8:23 PM BST
The case in point is you have no clue about the nature of this virus.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 8:25 PM BST
Plus if you fear covid that much, if you see people as a hazard, the safest thing for you to do is not be in a close environment of anyone.
Report impossible123 September 16, 2021 8:30 PM BST
The virus is invisible, and not be in a close environment with anyone is near impossible. But, I'll certainly manage the risks eg keep my distance to known non-jabbers. It's that simple!
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 8:30 PM BST
I'd readily and willingly be in a close environment with fellow jabbers than non-jabbers.

A lot of people mistakenly take that view.

But if you've been jabbed yourself then what's the problem?

You don't seem very confident that it's going to protect you.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 8:33 PM BST
The virus is invisible, and not be in a close environment with anyone is near impossible. But, I'll certainly manage the risks eg keep my distance to known non-jabbers. It's that simple!


Assuming you've been vaxed, why should it concern you in the slightest. You're going to come into contact with someone who has it, just like a cold. You probably already have. Whether they have been vaccinated or not.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 8:39 PM BST
"  Whether the non-jabbers have had the virous or not is immaterial as non-jabbers would be more likely carriers/transmitters of the virus"

The above quote shows what a great job MSM have done in terrifying people that aren't very bright like the above poster but then I remember this thread last year

https://community.betfair.com/chit_chat/go/thread/view/94038/31637927/when-you-get-your-groceries-home#flvWelcomeHeader
.


impossible123 • March 28, 2020 5:59 PM GMT
I must have washed my hands a good 20x plus a day, and I'm hibernating. I only shop once a week.
The advice is wash your hands after touching any surface and after prepping food, I guess.


These are the sorts of people out there in charge of deciding whether their kids should be vaccinated and given the vote in elections- fairly frightening when you think about it
Report Cider September 16, 2021 8:41 PM BST
To be fair imp, I can understand why many many people are so irrational about covid (and the vaccination). This was deliberately instigated by the social manipulators advising the government.
Report shiny new shoes please September 16, 2021 8:41 PM BST
I've got plenty of ZORBS for people terrified ..  25% off Grin
Open your eyes - and look within
Are you satisfied - with the life you´re living?ExcitedHappy
Report rothko September 16, 2021 8:45 PM BST
these were the workers that boris was happy to send to the front line with inadequate PPE whilst the politicians were cowering in their homes on zoom calls all day

theres not that may un vaxed left anyway in the care community
mountain out of a mole hill [ what a bunch of d5kg=heads Cry
Report Cider September 16, 2021 8:49 PM BST
care homes are private businesses. obviously the state had to step in but it was hardly politicians' responsibility, that is what thousands of people in whitehall are employed to do. the whole world was demanding ppe at the same time. This enforced jabbing is an outrage though.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 8:57 PM BST
The way we beat a virus, is to keep getting reinfected, with few symptoms if any after the first exposure.
It doesn't go away on its own.

The unvaccinated are doing the rest of the community a service by catching it and then proving a barrier to its spread.

Will the vaccine work like that - who knows?

We'll be living in fear of it forever if it doesn't.
Report shiny new shoes please September 16, 2021 9:00 PM BST
Bob explains covid vaccines .. So you think you've found the solution but in fact it's just a illusion
- So much trouble in the world
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:01 PM BST
That's all well and good unless the first time you catch it , it kills you.

Take the vaccine first, then when you catch it you are protected.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:02 PM BST
If most people are like me, you know you'll get flu/a cold once a year, every winter without fail. Covid is the same. I realise MSM and the rest get awfully upset when you correlate covid with flu, but essentially they are the same. Covid manifests slightly differently, is worse for older people, and less severe for younger people.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:04 PM BST
There are multiple things that can kill us, JTG. It's only covid that many people are irrational about.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 9:05 PM BST
You sound old or sick Johnny Guesser.

It's people like you who should be getting jabbed not the young and healthy.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:09 PM BST
I was responding to Doc's "way to be the virus" and suggesting an improvement.

Why take the risk on the first infection ?
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:09 PM BST
"way to beat the virus"
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:11 PM BST
My preference is to build up natural immunity.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:12 PM BST
So do you not get natural immunity when infected after a jab ?
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:13 PM BST
i think the clue is in the word " natural "
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:14 PM BST
So do you know or not Wolf ?
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:16 PM BST
What's "natural" about a man made vaccine- do you understand what the word means?
Report rothko September 16, 2021 9:16 PM BST
[i]Cider • September 16, 2021 8:49 PM BST
care homes are private businesses. obviously the state had to step in but it was hardly politicians' responsibility[/i

sorry cider thats not what national emergency planning is about
Governments are responsible for preparing for these not private businesses - govt run mock events with all the relevant bodies to prepare for these including pandemics.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:16 PM BST
Yes but the jab makes little difference to someone with my profile. Whereas you can experience a negative reaction from the jab. The side effect can actually be pretty bad if you've already had covid.
Report frog1000 September 16, 2021 9:17 PM BST

Sep 16, 2021 -- 2:18PM, impossible123 wrote:


I'd readily and willingly be in a close environment with fellow jabbers than non-jabbers. Whether the non-jabbers have had the virous or not is immaterial as non-jabbers would be more likely carriers/transmitters of the virus thus presenting a possible hazard to those they come into contact. The case in point is the degree of potential risk to others.


Would you prefer no care  or a carer who has not had the vaccine if you needed round the clock care to survive and had been vaxxed yourself?

Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:18 PM BST
That's isn't the question is it ?
Does the body develop natural antibodies when fighting off the virus in a vaccinated person ?
Do you know or not ?
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:18 PM BST
They do rothko but two elements to that. Most countries were caught on the hop, due to the CCP cover up. The other is that it's whitehall's responsibility, not the figureheads that come and go like we saw yesterday.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:19 PM BST

Sep 16, 2021 -- 3:12PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


So do you not get natural immunity when infected after a jab ?


It is the question though Johnny, did you forget you asked it?

Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:20 PM BST
I will take that as a don't know.

Pretty fundamental question I would have thought , but hey ho.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:22 PM BST
I suspect immunity after actual infection would be better than any vaccine- nature always tends to win out. You're 66 which isn't particularly old but petrified of the virus- fair enough but don't assume others have your age/health profile and want endless jabs over a virus that is very mild for the vast majority
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:27 PM BST
You are deflecting again.

So the antibodies the body produces when vaccinated are different to the antibodies produced when you are infected without vaccination ? - Is that right ?
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:31 PM BST
The levels of them will be, anti bodies are anti bodies
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:32 PM BST
if you don't know yourself why are you so obsessed with people getting vaccnated Johnny- seems quite strange you don't know yet keep forcing your pro vaccine mentality onto people
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:33 PM BST
Right so the antibodies are the same , but in different volumes ? - Interesting stuff - How do you know this for a fact ?
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:34 PM BST
It's of no concern really. Old people get the flu vaccine, typically younger people don't. All you need to know is that tangible threat of covid to you. Which for me in negligible which negates the need to be jabbed twice to generate chemically induced immunity.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:36 PM BST
If I was old or vulnerable I would have the vaccine, as it is I'm not. So why I would I vaccinate myself for something that isn't a tangible threat to me.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:40 PM BST
So Wolf - what about the volumes of antibodies in people who are vaccinated and then infected ?  Where do they fall on your scale ?
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:42 PM BST
Jonny you're 4 years off 70, if you want a detailed explanation to how natural immunity ( a concept you don't understand) contrasts to a vaccine induced one, probably best to consult your doctor. Covid doesn't worry me so whether immunity produces anti body levels with mickey mouse faces swirling around is irrelevant- I look at the death stats compared to other diseases along with age demographics affected and have concluded society has lost the plot. If you wish to spend your days hibernating from covid taking endless jabs that's your prerogative, statistically you're odds on to be 6 foot under in less than 20 years so maybe spend those years focusing on other things instead of advocating people much younger than you particularly kids risk their life to appease your irrational terror/cowardice of accepting your own mortality
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:42 PM BST
Huge difference between what you are suggesting Cider and suggesting that everybody below an unspecified age should not be vaccinated and look to get infected to gain natural immunity.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:43 PM BST
You know nothing about me.
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:44 PM BST
I've never claimed adults shouldn't get vaccinated. If they think they need it they should go ahead.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:45 PM BST
I know that and respect your view.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 9:45 PM BST
Indeed, no one cares whether adults get the jab but the line has to be drawn somewhere when kids are dragged into this hysteria
Report Cider September 16, 2021 9:49 PM BST
It's incredibly divisive, and for Whitty to claim it's for the benefit of their mental health, is obscene.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 9:55 PM BST
More deflection - we weren't discussing the jabbing of kids - (tonight anyway).
You jumped in pretending to be an expert on immunity., when clearly you are not.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:04 PM BST
Cider - what about kids who have vulnerable people in their family and are worried sick about bringing the virus home (I know they still can) but might they feel better if they have the jab (they have done everything they could) .
What about the mental health of an unvaccinated kid whose vulnerable mother gets covid and dies after an outbreak at his school ?  - that could affect him for life.  Again if has had the jab he will at least know he had done everything he possibly could.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:05 PM BST
Find a post where I've said "I am an expert on immunity", you sound like you are going the same way as Biden Johnny. If you don't know yourself, why would you ask these questions on a gambling forum?.. not that any of the doctors know let alone anyone on here as we can see from their continual 180s but you may be comforted by a figure in a white coat patting you on the head telling you the deadly covid won't do you in. I have already said adults should have free choice, you believe parents should have the right to vaccinate children yet along with the other doctors have no idea what the short . medium, long term side effects may be of the vaccine where laughably only 1 jab is now recommened for kids which is different to most other countries so as usual the " experts " disagree. Even leaving the kid jabs aside your first posts on the thread tonight were statements such as

   Johnny The Guesser • September 16, 2021 9:01 PM BST
That's all well and good unless the first time you catch it , it kills you.

Take the vaccine first, then when you catch it you are protected.

I have never told anyone " not to take the vaccine" over 18 yet you laughably state you are pro free choice but continually banging your vaccine drum telling people to get the jab because you're petrified. It's obvious you have an agenda, most sensible posters don't give a sh1t what adult has it but you clearly do evidence by " take the vaccine first" post which is a common theme from you
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:08 PM BST
You contended , higher up this thread ,that natural infection produces different levels of antibodies when compared to vaccination and then infection .
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:12 PM BST

Sep 16, 2021 -- 4:08PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


You contended , higher up this thread ,that natural infection produces different levels of antibodies when compared to vaccination and then infection .


Well bearing in mind we know different vaccines produce different anti body levels with some more effective against the delta variant than the other, it isn't rocket science to extrapolate from that natural immunity will be different again. You hardly need to be an expert to say the blindingly obvious or have you been living in a cave over the last year where we keep hearing percentages of protection from the different vaccines which drum roll.............are differ

Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:14 PM BST
all differ *
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:16 PM BST
Get the jab because I'm petrified Laugh - I don't give a flying ****

What I object to the most is people telling others not to get vaccinated ? - If they don't want it themselves that's fine but just shut up and get on with your  life.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:18 PM BST
Perhaps you can find a post where I have said " don't get vaccinated"- Like I said, you're going the same away as Biden. You on the other hand have already told people to get vaccinated in the usual display of rank hypocrisy but no great shock.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:20 PM BST
Natural immunity should see you okay until you die.
SARS 2002, people who caught that are still immune.

You will get reinfected but the disease might not show, or devolop to make you ill.

There's more to immunity than just antibodies which fade anyway.

The vaccine should do the same but why a third jab if it does? It doesn't work at all in some folks.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:21 PM BST
But you pretended to know differences in antibody levels and immunity between
1/ Infection with no vaccination
2/ Vaccination only
3/ Vaccination then infection.

When clearly you don't know.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:22 PM BST

Sep 16, 2021 -- 4:21PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


But you pretended to know differences in antibody levels and immunity between 1/ Infection with no vaccination2/ Vaccination only3/ Vaccination then infection.When clearly you don't know.


A serious question, are you senile?

Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:22 PM BST
You've only got to read the posts - they are all there.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:23 PM BST
Go and find them then in a post where I say I am as you put it " an expert in immunity " and have stated what you have just said- I'll wait
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:24 PM BST
We have another immunity expert in the house.
Hi Doc - Did you go to the same medical school as Wolf ?
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:26 PM BST
People can read the thread and make their own mind up.
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:26 PM BST
Johnny loves strawman arguments, we are still waiting for these posts
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:28 PM BST
Doc but what about the sad souls who die trying to gain natural immunity ?

Maybe they could have been saved if they were jabbed up first  ?
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:28 PM BST
I can't see what Johnny's getting so worked up about.

He seems terrified.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:28 PM BST
If you're in a vulnerable group then get jabbed. I've never thought any different.

But the young and healthy don't need jabbing, they're much better off with natural immunity.

By the way, being fat isn't healthy.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:31 PM BST
Doc but what about the sad souls who die trying to gain natural immunity ?

Who are they Johnny?

If they want to take a chance on thier immune system being up to scratch that's their business.

Some people don't like being jabbed with an untested product.

We still don't know the long term effects of the vaccine.
Report SontaranStratagem September 16, 2021 10:32 PM BST
Italy forcing workers to show passes or be struck off confirms its nothing about a virus

I've spoken to and heard someone else today say they wont be getting the booster because the other 2 have made them seriously ill and given them heart inflammation which still hasn't cleared up (nor likely to) and one of their doctors told them its "long covid" Crazy

But I'm now hearing "partially vaxxinated" doing the rounds so that 2 jabs ? without the booster ie 2.5 you wont be considered "fully vaxxinated"... Tick tock

Even the most switched off will wake up soon... been had and again... what was in those fooking jabs?
Report wolf3011 September 16, 2021 10:33 PM BST
At least we have established you were making it up as usual Johnny.. btw its time for your booster and the lady at the vaccination centre is terrified at you demanding entry for your 15th booster- FGS control yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ABIIZV3vA
.
Report lapsy pa September 16, 2021 10:33 PM BST
I haven't read the full thread but what is going to happen to the people in the homes?
Talk of Afgani refugees being drafted in to help out in the shortage of care workers in Kent,isn't it very bleak?
Isn't there saliva tests or any tests that can be given before they clock on,or aren't they fit for purpose?
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:34 PM BST
A pal of mine who's 70 got jabbed, three weeks after the secong jab he had a stroke.

They said it was caused by a bleed in his head.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:41 PM BST
So Doc - You're wriggling and twisting and turning now.

You've shifted from (8.57)  "no vaccination for the young and healthy being the best way to develop herd immunity"  to (10.31) "some don't want vaccines because they think they are dodgy".
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:43 PM BST
I can't see any shift there.

The two statements sit perfectly together.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 10:46 PM BST
Jabbing kids when there's more danger to them from the vaccine than from the virus is plainly wrong.

And if other people don't trust the vaccine that's their business.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 16, 2021 10:57 PM BST
I would agree if your statement about vaccinating kids was factually correct, but I'm afraid it isn't.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 11:04 PM BST
It's only a fraction either way.

But they banned the use of the Phizer jab on kids in the UK. So you're wrong.

According to a US-based study, healthy boys are more at risk from a serious side effect of the Pfizer jab than Covid itself.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1490276/pfizer-vaccine-side-effe...
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2021 11:09 PM BST
There's two sides to every argument.

If you're running scared, then get jabbed if it gives you some comfort. But you can still die from it even then if you're weak.

We'll see how good the vaccine is this winter.
Report potlis September 17, 2021 9:22 AM BST
Watched an unvaccinated care worker, 27 years service still on minimum wage, being interviewed by a female news presenter on BBC yesterday, somewhat puke inducing listening to the £500k mouthpiece lecturing the minimum wager on “responsibilities, duty, right to expect”

Personally I’d have been tempted to tell the righteous prat that if she feels that strongly about it she should quit her overpaid job at the beeb and switch to changing piss soaked beds and wiping dribbling chins instead, she would be far more use to society than reading us the news.

Btw, this care worker has already been informed in writing that she will be dismissed on the 10th if she continues to refuse the vaccine, her attitude was, as much as she enjoys caring for the elderly, she can get the same money in a cleaning job.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 17, 2021 10:07 AM BST
Personally, I do think it's personal choice whether they take the vaccine or not. But they're grown up; and with freedom of choice comes responsibility for the outcomes. I don't think they should be necessarily barred from care work but it is a regulated industry and the disease is known to be very deadly for care home residents.

So, if I had a family member who was in a care home I would want to know if any or how many of the staff were unvaccinated. Ultimately I may not do anything with that information but I simply want it to make an informed decision. So let them stay unvaccinated and let the care homes employ them if they wish. But also let the public decide on which homes and carers to use.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 17, 2021 12:20 PM BST
No doubt we will be hearing more regarding public liability insurance implications for care homes in relation to employing vaccinated and unvaccinated support staff.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 12:55 PM BST
That's fantasy JTG.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 12:55 PM BST
If all the residents have been jabbed, aren't they protected.

And being jabbed or not doesn't make any difference to whether you might be carrying the virus.

Of course vested interests will try any ruse they can to get maximumn take up of the vaccine.

Even now they're pushing for booster jabs.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 12:58 PM BST
Anybody in a residential home is at risk, all they can meaningfully do is jab them.

Everything else is bullshine.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 17, 2021 12:59 PM BST
As per PP's post on another thread just now, around 66% of all Delta deaths of over-50's were fully vaccinated. There's clearly still a weakness there and the % is only going to get higher as the age and vulnerability go up.

It's not a silver bullet. You still need to have extra layers of protection.
Report Johnny The Guesser September 17, 2021 1:02 PM BST
Even if the government relaxed legislation the insurance companies may say "no jab , no insurance cover" or they may exclude covid related matters entirely.
Some residents, or indeed their families , may also get involved - If your staff aren't all jabbed we'll take our £40,000 a year to a care home where they are.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 1:05 PM BST
The covid jab is similar to the flu jab, it works best on those who are stongest.

Most older peopole get little protection from the flu jab.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 1:08 PM BST
''If your staff aren't all jabbed we'll take our £40,000 a year to a care home where they are.''

In that case they'd probably end up looking after them themselves.

Care homes won't take responsibility for infections under any circumstances.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 1:10 PM BST
Go back to February March 2020. The same people who  were sending infected people into care homes, are now insisting that all workers should be jabbed.
And we trust these people?
Report Johnny The Guesser September 17, 2021 1:17 PM BST
Markets forces should result in pay increases for (jabbed) care home workers together with resident fees.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2021 1:30 PM BST
Costs are immaterial if someone else if footing the bill.

People who don't have to pay are always screaming for others to spend more
Report Whisperingdeath September 17, 2021 3:17 PM BST

Dr Crippen 17 Sep 21 12:10

Go back to February March 2020. The same people who  were sending infected people into care homes, are now insisting that all workers should be jabbed.
And we trust these people?


Crippen I am seriously worried the aliens have taken over your body.

You have criticised the Conservative Government AGAIN!
Report shiny new shoes please September 19, 2021 1:28 PM BST
Johnny
Respiratory infections, influenza,pneumonia are the leading cause of death in people over 65 worldwide.

keep your T cells happy
Don't smoke,drink rarely
Exercise , eat varied healthy diet ,micro nutrients ,become stress free
processed foods , high sugar ,junk food  will affect your immune function badly

You can't beat natural immunity EVER \ Bob Marley - Natural Mystic
Report shiny new shoes please September 19, 2021 4:11 PM BST
insurance companies may say "no jab , no insurance cover" or they may exclude covid related matters entirely.
Some residents, or indeed their families , may also get involved

They then open up a world of claims...

Think MRSA,Septicaemia, Respiratory infections, influenza,pneumonia ect...
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