Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Burt06
12 Sep 21 12:28
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Dec 11
| Topic/replies: 54,583 | Blogger: Burt06's blog
The 2 biatches in question would like to inform the forum that they are officially pleading the 5th. Biatches.Grin
Pause Switch to Standard View Kenny the sucker and his BF Mugpunter...
Show More
Loading...
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:01 AM BST
They couldn't win as the majority of the population is in England and it was more of an English issue,that is what is wrong, Scotland has no voice really.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:02 AM BST
Well that’s for Boris to decide , I read he would like to stay pm longer than thatcher
That would surprise me as I thought a year or two and he might resign
But who knows Cool
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:02 AM BST
The people of Scotland did decide their future and they wanted to remain in the UK Union.
Report politicspunter September 13, 2021 11:03 AM BST

Sep 13, 2021 -- 5:01AM, lapsy pa wrote:


They couldn't win as the majority of the population is in England and it was more of an English issue,that is what is wrong, Scotland has no voice really.


Yep, Northern Ireland is the same. The people of NI wished to remain in the EU.

Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:04 AM BST
And of course the snp don’t have a mandate for a referendum anyway
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:05 AM BST
Scotland has no voice really

Well we did in 2014 and shouted loud and clear we wanted to remain in the UK Union.
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:06 AM BST
So you had a voice in 2014 and stfu in 2016? lovely!
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:06 AM BST
There are many more unionists in Scotland - so of course those are the people who will decide Scotland future , quite rightly
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:09 AM BST
The smell of fear from the unionists is ambrosial
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:10 AM BST
The unionists won the vote - the seperatists should respect that
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:11 AM BST
Scotland  voted on whether the UK should leave or remain in the EU.
Not whether Scotland should leave or remain.
Not sure why you are struggling to grasp this lapsy.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:12 AM BST
Technically after that victory there should never be another vote
certainly not in our lifetimes
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:13 AM BST
How is that lapsy?
Recent opinion polls favour remaining in the UK Union - 57% in one poll.
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:14 AM BST
What was the result of Scotland voting should the UK leave or remain in the EU Akabula?
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:17 AM BST
An irrelevance really to look at the vote except in its entirety.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:18 AM BST
Most Scots wanted to remain in the U.K.
and most Scots wanted to remain in the EU
The U.K. comes first , sorry
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:19 AM BST
All the Scotland vote tells you is that more Scots voted for the UK to remain in the EU.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:19 AM BST
Don’t forget more English people than Scottish wanted to remain in the EU
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:21 AM BST
No irrelevance at all? 2/3's of Scots wanted the UK to stay in the EU,why? because it was beneficial to Scotland,it was for the good of Scotland as a country,you seem to ignore this important part
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:24 AM BST
Yes but more Scottish people wanted to remain part of the U.K.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:25 AM BST
They saw that as being good for the country - you seem to want to ignore that
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:27 AM BST
So the EU is important to Scotland yet its biggest market is with the rest of the UK. So surely that is more important?
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:33 AM BST
I'm not too interested in 2014 lfc,the goalposts have changed.

Yes,that is an important question re the rest of the UK market,i'm not sure how that would pan out but the loss of Scottish business exporting to the EU market has been well documented and it is not looking good.

Would the Scottish vote be higher or lower now than in 2016 iyo?
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:36 AM BST
The first principle of democracy is if you take part in a vote then you are duty bound to accept the result of that vote

That’s something snp types fail to understand

Hopefully if there is anorher referendum they  understand what they are voting on and improve their behaviour
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:39 AM BST
I’m not sure of the outcome of any possible future ref lapsy

It doesn’t worry me and I will accept the outcome , no problem
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:40 AM BST
How have the goalposts changed lapsy?
If you're referring to Brexit then we were told in the snps white paper in 2014 that a vote to remain in the UK Union could see Scotland taken out of the EU at a later date.
Despite this we voted in large numbers to remain.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:41 AM BST
And the same thing applied to the EU referendum - it’s not difficult to understand
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 11:44 AM BST
My question was if the vote for the UK to remain in the EU(2016) in Scotland was today would it be higher or lower than 63%

It is conjecture but surely only one answer.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:47 AM BST
That’s fine , they can vote for a party that is likely to bring that about if it is what they want
It can however take a long time - lifes like that we were in the EU for over 40 years
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:53 AM BST
Who knows what it would be.
Again its an irrelevance and as the opinion polls have changed in favour of remaining in the UK Union Brexit appears to have been accepted by most Scots.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:56 AM BST
lapsy surely if Brexit was more important to us Scots then the opinion polls would be showing 60%+ in favour of independence>
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:59 AM BST
They witnessed the damage that can be done through leaving a union for vain reasons.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 12:08 PM BST
Of course covid has nothing to do with this so called damage.
And you say 17m people voted for 'vain reasons.
Nothing vain about leaving an organisation that we never voted to join in the first place.
An organisation that wanted us to become a part of something resembling the USA.
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:12 PM BST
Did you vote to join the UK?
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:14 PM BST
Brexit - bringing you a pay rise
Jeremy vine radio 2 coming up Happy
Report akabula September 13, 2021 12:16 PM BST
Not really a question to debate edy more a smart ass comment and an irrelevant one at that.
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:17 PM BST
I see.

An organisation that wanted us to become a part of something resembling the USA.

Assuming that indeed one day the EU does become something resembling the USA:

Would the UK have had more or less say in its own policies within the UK than Scotland currently enjoys within the UK?
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:18 PM BST
*Would the UK have had more or less say in its own policies within the EU than Scotland currently enjoys within the UK?
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:19 PM BST
I.e

Would the EU have meddled more in UK matters than the UK meddles in Scottish affairs?
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:22 PM BST

Sep 13, 2021 -- 6:16AM, akabula wrote:


Not really a question to debate edy more a smart ass comment and an irrelevant one at that.


Be careful btw. with such responses. Burt might add you to ze list for being a sucker that refuses to respond to questions.

Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:23 PM BST
Yes of course they did . Especially as there are 26 EU countries
And they are still trying to meddle in U.K. matters even now
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:24 PM BST
Scottish people had much more influence within the U.K. than in Europe also
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:25 PM BST
And much greater benefits , not that they are thankful  Sad
Report akabula September 13, 2021 12:26 PM BST
What is your point edy?
Just seems like waffle to be honest.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:28 PM BST
There are no Scots in the German government - end of
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:29 PM BST
My point is the following:

You said you guys never voted to join the EU, and the EU wanted to become the next USA. I assume with that you meant that the EU would have meddled greatly in UK affairs in the federal construct.

I would like you to answer if the EUSA, if it ever had come to fruition, would have meddled more in UK affairs, than the UK meddles in Scottish affairs. Preferrably with you giving some reasoning how you came to your conclusion.
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:32 PM BST
Ie. do you think Scotland currently enjoys more sovereignty to decide own policies and matters than the UK would have enjoyed within the EU?
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:39 PM BST
Scotland does enjoy more sovereignty within the U.K. than it would within the EU
Simply because it is the Scots who are making the decisions and are in every corner of British life
That’s not the case in Europe
Report politicspunter September 13, 2021 12:40 PM BST
The situation in Scotland is straightforward.

1/ They had an independence referendum in 2014 where the electorate chose to remain in the UK.
2/ Another referendum should only be held if there was a major change in circumstances.
3/ That change of circumstance occurred when the UK voted to leave the EU but the electorate of Scotland voted to remain.
4/ The Scottish electorate democratically voted for a majority of independence supporting parties/MSPs at the 2021 Holyrood election on a platform of a new referendum.
5/ If the Holyrood Parliament requests a new referendum it should be granted as they have been given a democratic mandate by the electorate.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:41 PM BST
There is no mandate for a referendum - more Scots voted for unionists parties at the last election
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:45 PM BST
In a referendum you are not voting for seats
It’s one person one vote - at the last holyrood election more Scots voted for the unionists
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:47 PM BST
You have to look very carefully at anything punter posts
The untruths are usually there , well hidden of course
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:51 PM BST
Akabula, I'm not even going to argue that Scotland should seek independence or anything silly like that.

I'm simply of the opinion that people who are very much "Brexit! Woooooooooooooooooooooooo!" and reason that with "We never voted to be in it and they wanted to meddle in our affairs", are being somewhat weird when they are "Scottish Independence? Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!" when it is very much the case that Scottish people didn't vote to be in the UK and the Scottish government enjoying less sovereignty than the UK enjoyed within the EU construct.

There is something else inconsistent with you on this. You kept asking for the precisely worked out economic plan regarding Scottish Independence. Something that was weirdly enough never a requirement for feverish Brexit support.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:55 PM BST
Brexit was very clear on the fundamentals of what that would mean
Scottish independence it is not clear at all
Report edy September 13, 2021 12:56 PM BST
Yeah, we saw that during the negotiations.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 12:59 PM BST
We have left the EU, left the single market , customs union , stopped freedom of movement
Everything that Brexit said
Now what are the fundamentals of Scottish independence - what does that mean ?
We don’t know
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 1:07 PM BST
If the majority of the Scottish government want a new referendum on indeoendence,shouldn't they be allowed one and not told by someelse they can't have one? Isn't that a mickey mouse government so?
Report edy September 13, 2021 1:12 PM BST

Sep 13, 2021 -- 7:07AM, lapsy pa wrote:


If the majority of the Scottish government want a new referendum on indeoendence,shouldn't they be allowed one and not told by someelse they can't have one? Isn't that a mickey mouse government so?


That's ultimately the biggest sign of having sovereignty, or in the case of Scotland a lack of sovereignty.

The UK was able to stage a referendum and trigger article 50 entirely out of its own free will. The EU had no say in either of those things.

Scotland has to beg the central government for a referendum and, as far as I know, would then also need to go beg Westminster to actually leave. Scotland can not trigger a leave mechanism out of its own free will if it wants to.

Report Whisperingdeath September 13, 2021 1:16 PM BST
lfc197113 Sep 21 11:59

We have left the EU, left the single market , customs union , stopped freedom of movement
Everything that Brexit said


But you haven't stopped the invasion by rubber dinghy!
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 1:18 PM BST
edy Scotland will get another referendum because the snp are the main party in Hollywood . That can’t be ignored
Obviously now is not the best time , everything is too volatile just now
Report Whisperingdeath September 13, 2021 1:18 PM BST
lfc197113 Sep 21 11:47

You have to look very carefully at anything punter posts


I wish the same could be said of you lfc, truly I doWink
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 1:20 PM BST
Ah , we are going to turn the dinghies back to France
We have only just left the EU and yes they are still causing trouble
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 1:21 PM BST
Laugh. that made me chuckle wd
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 1:22 PM BST
I'm not sure are the Scots too well into the old Sovereignty myself Edy,they appear to be more pragmatic.
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 1:22 PM BST
Have to go
Report edy September 13, 2021 1:23 PM BST
Oh, I think Scots should continue to be a part of the UK, lapsy. I agree, they are probably pragmatic on the issue, and many saw the damage done that leaving a union for vain reasons can do.
Report sofiakenny September 13, 2021 1:31 PM BST
edy..we do not want indy for vanity...we want it because we have not voted tory for over 60 years and are fed up with them peeing on our backs claiming it is rain.
Report lapsy pa September 13, 2021 1:31 PM BST
Yes,tis complex,we agree on a Scottish goverment that have the same power as a fart in a gale. They aren't into last night of the proms.they can see the damage in leaving a union except the union that left gave themselves the damage. I am glad it is a Scottish thread and not a North of the Island of Ireland one as that is more complicated i think.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 9:55 PM BST
Ie. do you think Scotland currently enjoys more sovereignty to decide own policies and matters than the UK would have enjoyed within the EU?

Try to stay on course edy.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 9:57 PM BST
lapsy pa
If the majority of the Scottish government want a new referendum on indeoendence,shouldn't they be allowed one and not told by someelse they can't have one? Isn't that a mickey mouse government so?


It is more important that the 2014 vote is recognised and honoured and that is what Westminster is doing.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 10:01 PM BST
In Bunter terms the people of Scotland don't want independence.
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:04 PM BST
akabula just another serial question dodger Sad
Report akabula September 13, 2021 10:07 PM BST
No just another example of you high-jacking a thread and trying to take it in another direction.
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:29 PM BST
This thread is about question dodgers. You question dodged. How is that thread high-jacking?
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:33 PM BST
And why are those two accused of being question dodgers? Scottish Independence questions that Burt wants them answered!

Who had no problem whatsoever talking about the broader topic of Scottish Independence on this very thread long before I ever arrived? You, Sir!

Who is now dodging the really tough questions under the pretense of me being an evil thread highjacker? Again you, Sir!
Report akabula September 13, 2021 10:36 PM BST
Good on you edy, give yourself a wee pat on the back if it makes you feel good.
We were discussing the results of the last 2 referendums and the lack of support for a 2nd indyref.
All well covered but if you've anything new to add please do so.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 10:40 PM BST
The really tough questions LaughLaughLaugh
Irrelevant questions you mean.
Pure deflection.
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:46 PM BST
Well, tough enough for you dodge them.
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:47 PM BST
Time after time, after time under pretenses
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 10:49 PM BST
you a big cyndi lauper fan edy
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 10:49 PM BST
or was she banned in the GDR
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 10:49 PM BST
Quite right aka - until the snp are prepared to answer the important questions as to what Scottish independence means , then there is nothing to discuss
Oh , and any referendum is off also
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 10:51 PM BST
why isn't Sturgeon in jail?
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:53 PM BST
I'm not aware of Cyndi Lauper being banned in the GDR, but I would still not call myself a fan.
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 10:55 PM BST
why not? are you a sexist?
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 10:55 PM BST
She has been before Parliament and found guilty but she has no shame and won’t quit
She would need to be forcibly removed
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 10:56 PM BST
40 year sentence, no parole
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 10:58 PM BST
she thinks she's napoleon so make her serve it on st helena
Report edy September 13, 2021 10:59 PM BST

Sep 13, 2021 -- 4:55PM, Giuseppe wrote:


why not? are you a sexist?


A little bit Happy

Report edy September 13, 2021 10:59 PM BST
You?
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 11:00 PM BST
She’s toast
Report Giuseppe September 13, 2021 11:00 PM BST
how could you ask me a question like that?
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:01 PM BST
Because I wondered!
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:01 PM BST
and then I typed the words on my keyboard and submitted the post.
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:02 PM BST
Or the word, singular.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:03 PM BST
Edy wants to debate the merits of Scotland being independent when the debate was about the lack of appetite shown by the Scottish people for independence.
Edy wants to side-track that but its a meaningless journey and has bearing on where we are at this juncture.

No doubt he'll mark another victory on his Bayeux Tapestry sized spreadsheet. Laugh
Report akabula September 13, 2021 11:04 PM BST
* no bearing
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:05 PM BST
Gosh, rarely have I seen such hard and desperate doding.
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:05 PM BST
*dodging
Report edy September 13, 2021 11:06 PM BST
I didn't want to debate the merits of Scotland being independent btw. Please do not make things up in your desperate dodging.
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com