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PorcupineorPineapple
11 Sep 21 12:40
Joined:
Date Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 249,623 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
Obviously a momentous day in the US. The whole country coming together and remembering one of its darkest days. Only right that the presidents, both past and present are doing something to commemorate it. Always something noble about how they come together for moments like this:


Joe Biden - attending the ceremony at Ground Zero where he will meet with survivors and relatives of the victims

Barack Obama - also attending the Ground Zero ceremony

George W Bush - speaking at the Flight 93 memorial in Pennsylvania

Donald Trump - hosting a boxing match in Florida



Love all of this. So much honour and dignity in it all and stopping to pay respects to those victims.
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Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:13 PM BST
its at 9 pm eastern what difference it make what hes doing that time of night , Holyfield is a close friend of Dons , where will Biden be in the Whitehouse pishing the bed ?
Report Charlie September 11, 2021 7:14 PM BST

Sep 11, 2021 -- 1:13PM, casemoney wrote:


its at 9 pm eastern what difference it make what hes doing that time of night , Holyfield is a close friend of Dons , where will Biden be in the Whitehouse pishing the bed ?


Tw@t.

Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:15 PM BST
i wonder what the families of the victims will be more worried about

Biden handing Afghanistan back to the Taliban or Trump hosting a boxing match
Report Charlie September 11, 2021 7:19 PM BST
The issue is about paying respect which you obviously don't see. Try and get a life.
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:20 PM BST
Answer the Question Chaz what difference does it make if Don is attending Holyfields fight at 9 pm ,Holyfield invited don  to do the comms , So what difference does it make ? 

Answer None , Just lefty stains making an Issue out of nothing ?
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:21 PM BST
Its 9 pm  not 9 am  , whats he meant to be doing at 9 pm  ?
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:23 PM BST
Biden has caused Multiple Deaths on Exit , and Bombed an America Aid and his Family ,your going on about Trump , Pmsfl give yer heed a wobble .
Report Charlie September 11, 2021 7:24 PM BST

Sep 11, 2021 -- 1:20PM, casemoney wrote:


Answer the Question Chaz what difference does it make if Don is attending Holyfields fight at 9 pm ,Holyfield invited don

Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:25 PM BST
i wonder was Trump invited to any of those events?


probably not who would want him at any event that wanted to be a dignified occasion
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:26 PM BST
Biden should be hiding in the Whitehouse cellar a disgrace to the American Flag and its armed forces
Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:27 PM BST
Biden handing Afghanistan back to the Taliban or Trump hosting a boxing match

Trump wanted to stay in Afghanistan?
Report politicspunter September 11, 2021 7:27 PM BST
It's at times like this that I remember why I blocked casemoney long ago.
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:28 PM BST
BOMBED A FAMILY  who had helped the USA , how can he even show himself in public on this day .
Report Charlie September 11, 2021 7:28 PM BST
I'll try again

It's a bit like not going to a funeral to pay repsects to someone you know. I'll assume you wouldn't go to a funeral for your mon and dad?

Respect is respect for your country if you're an ex-president and believed in your country .
Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:29 PM BST
Trump is now a private citizen and has no dutie sto perform - he's certainly not interest in paying respect to the dead if there's nothing in for him.

it's somehow entirely appropriate that while other ex-Presidents are honouring the dead he's getting paid to commentate on a freakshow in Florida.
Report Charlie September 11, 2021 7:34 PM BST

Sep 11, 2021 -- 1:20PM, casemoney wrote:


Answer the Question Chaz what difference does it make if Don is attending Holyfields fight at 9 pm ,Holyfield invited don

Report Charlie September 11, 2021 7:35 PM BST
I give up but you should get the idea.
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:35 PM BST
"who would want him at any event that wanted to be a dignified occasion "

i would
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:36 PM BST
"it's somehow entirely appropriate that while other ex-Presidents are honouring the dead he's getting paid to commentate on a freakshow in Florida."

they're not on at the same time presumably?
Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:37 PM BST
BOMBED A FAMILY  who had helped the USA , how can he even show himself in public on this day .


casemoney can you direct us to ypur posts where you condemned the killings of hundreds of civilians by airstrikes from the Trump administration
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:38 PM BST
"he's certainly not interest in paying respect to the dead if there's nothing in for him."

what a disgusting thing to say

Trump was in New York that day, there are photos of him on the street at ground zero
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:38 PM BST
Trump is a New Yorker

he was born and raised in Queens I think

he has more right to be there than the others
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:41 PM BST
there are college football and MLB games across america today

are they disrespecting the dead too?

there will probably be some tribute at the boxing
Report politicspunter September 11, 2021 7:41 PM BST
It's hard to decide what scenario is the most likely. Either the organisers didn't wish him to be there or he didn't wish to be there. Probably a bit of both.
Report Reynard September 11, 2021 7:41 PM BST
politicspunter • September 11, 2021 7:27 PM BST
It's at times like this that I remember why I blocked casemoney long ago.

"However , I can read his posts when logged in as A_T" Grin
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:44 PM BST
Trump probbaly knew people killed or injured in 9/11, it took place in manhattan where he is based for **** sake

everyone in New York was affected by it
Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:45 PM BST
Trump was actually interviewed on radio on 9/11 - he was saying that now the twin towers were gone one of his buildings was now the tallest in downtown Manhattan


Trump's made all sorts of claims of heroic things he did in NY on 9/11 - noone's ever found any evidence for any of them
Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:47 PM BST
there are college football and MLB games across america today

are they disrespecting the dead too?


they are ex-Presidents of the US?
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:47 PM BST
"he was saying that now the twin towers were gone one of his buildings was now the tallest in downtown Manhattan"

i'd like a source for that
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:48 PM BST
lol

it's not even true

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_buildings_in_New_York_City
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:48 PM BST
what is trump supposed to do? stay at home all day?
Report politicspunter September 11, 2021 7:49 PM BST
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/09/11/a-timeline-of-trumps-misleading-911-claims/?sh=41df86d75836
.

Here are some of Trumps claims regarding 9/11.
Report A_T September 11, 2021 7:49 PM BST
it's not even true

that's the point - he was even lying about that - simply couldn't help himself
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 7:50 PM BST
PMSFL Rey what a complete mug PP is Laugh

AT would you to highlight these Trump admin bombing raids that killed hundreds of Civilians ?
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:51 PM BST
lol Trump, a real estate developer, thought he cuuld get away with saying his tower was the tallest in Manhattan?

taller than the Empire State building?
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:54 PM BST
world trump tower was the seventh tallest before the world trade centre came down, sixth aftterwards
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:55 PM BST
"Trump was actually interviewed on radio on 9/11"

you heard this yourself?
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 7:56 PM BST
think we got a couple of Trump derangement syndrome cases here
Report tobermory September 11, 2021 8:02 PM BST
The Empire State building is not downtown, so maybe he was right
Report tobermory September 11, 2021 8:03 PM BST
From the link seems Trump's tower was 2nd tallest still standing there, so he was off by 25ft
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 8:04 PM BST
neitehr is trump world tower!
Report Charlie September 11, 2021 8:04 PM BST
I'm not sure which of my posts are appearing so I'll repeat the idea: Trump is disrespecting the US population regardless of who they vote for.
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 8:04 PM BST
It's at times like this that I remember why I blocked casemoney long ago.

post of the year LaughGo back though the threads where he answers me .must be hundreds

PP suffering from Biden syndrome
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 8:11 PM BST
maybe he was talking about 40 wall street?

i think that was owned by Trump and would have been the tallest in downtown after 9/11

i'd like to hear how it was phrased though
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 8:11 PM BST
second tallest after pine street
Report Giuseppe September 11, 2021 8:23 PM BST
"i'd like to point out that this terrible tragedy means the Trump organisaton now owns the tallest building in this particular part of manhattan"
Report tobermory September 11, 2021 8:28 PM BST
It's not the most sensitive comment
Report A_T September 11, 2021 8:41 PM BST
AT would you to highlight these Trump admin bombing raids that killed hundreds of Civilians ?


certainly

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-55225827

and here's where Trump decided such unpleasantness needed to be covered up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47480207
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 9:26 PM BST
Did team JOBAMA carry out any bombings ?
Report casemoney September 11, 2021 11:02 PM BST
US OPEN , College Games Golf , Trump goes to a boxing matched  the Stains all kick orf PMSFL Laugh
Report akabula September 12, 2021 11:26 PM BST
Donald Trump getting a great reception from the NY Firefighters yesterday.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1436749195218718720
Report akabula September 12, 2021 11:32 PM BST
https://twitter.com/i/status/1436751749663047684

Looks like he's more than welcome. Showing great respect to the Fire Service.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 12:46 AM BST
@malushka is the wedding of the year (or Sturgeons masterstroke as you called it) between the snp and the greens heading for the divorce courts so soon? Calls for the split getting louder and unless Sturgeon gets Patrick and Lorna to do another u-turn and sign up to the HRAs definition of antisemitism they may have to part.
Report akabula September 13, 2021 12:47 AM BST
Sorry wrong thread
Report akabula September 13, 2021 12:47 AM BST
Sorry wrong thread
Report TimmyRiggins September 13, 2021 2:40 AM BST
Actually thought the Don was better than I expected on that Triller card.

Pretty comical night, but I think one of the Triller guys had raided Don Jnr's dressing room, and stolen his supplements.
Report timbuctooth September 13, 2021 6:48 AM BST
I`ve never taken too much notice of the conspiracies about this, haven`t looked into any of it, but one thing`s always struck me as strange; the complete lack of any photos or video of any planes anywhere near the Pentagon, surely one of the most camera-laden buildings in the world. Not even any civilian stuff, so much of which is available for the WTC attacks.
Another thing I`d heard about but wasn`t bothered enough to check out until now was the story that the BBC reported WTC7 as having fallen, when it`s clearly still standing, directly behind the reporter, didn`t come down for another 20 minutes.

https://rumble.com/vmcyt9-911-bbc-reports-wtc-7-collapsed-20-minutes-before-it-happened.html

As someone who wasn`t really a doubter, these things are most peculiar; any explanations?
Report lfc1971 September 13, 2021 7:48 AM BST
There was no footage of the plane hitting the pentagon because there were no cameras pointing at the pentagon which is remote
Footage of the twin towers was from a camera from surrounding buildings not from the towers
Report Corky September 13, 2021 3:43 PM BST
Saw a youtube video of Trump being interviewed by a bloke called Gutfeld. Don's a funny guy. Rather go to one of his parties than sleepy Joe's for sure. Does this make me a deplorable ? INCOMING Grin
Report Whisperingdeath September 13, 2021 4:07 PM BST
Only if you like under age girls or your own daughter!
Report Corky September 13, 2021 4:08 PM BST
Didn't take long LaughGrinCry
Report A_T September 13, 2021 4:22 PM BST
Another thing I`d heard about but wasn`t bothered enough to check out until now was the story that the BBC reported WTC7 as having fallen, when it`s clearly still standing, directly behind the reporter, didn`t come down for another 20 minutes.


What about the incorrect reporting of the collapse of Tower 7? Having talked to key eyewitnesses who were actually at Ground Zero that day it is clear that, as early as midday, the fire service feared that Tower 7 might collapse. This information then reached reporters on the scene and was eventually picked up by the international media.

The internet movie Loose Change has been viewed by more than 100 million people according to its makers and it asks this question in the latest film release: "Where did CNN and the BBC get their information especially considering the building was still standing directly behind their reporters?"

It turns out that the respected news agency Reuters picked up an incorrect report and passed it on. They have issued this statement:

"On 11 September 2001 Reuters incorrectly reported that one of the buildings at the New York World Trade Center, 7WTC, had collapsed before it actually did. The report was picked up from a local news story and was withdrawn as soon as it emerged that the building had not fallen."
Report timbuctooth September 13, 2021 6:17 PM BST
The `it was a mistake by Reuters` is, I suppose; plausible; reporters make many mistakes, but usually those mistakes don`t come true 20 minutes later!

But I can`t be doing with the `it`s remote, no local cameras` defence.  There`ll be tens, probably hundreds of cameras on site, capturing every cubic centimetre in triplicate. There will be oodles of footage, just that we`re not being shown it, which only sows doubts

I know this subject`s been covered innumerable times, and I`ve no desire to be going down this rabbit hole but, to the innocent uninformed bystander, it does look pretty suspicious
Report Whisperingdeath September 13, 2021 6:19 PM BST
Yes they do Tim.

Lazy journalism is not a new phenomenon. People review plays without seeing them. How does that work!
Report A_T September 14, 2021 12:47 PM BST
There will be oodles of footage, just that we`re not being shown it, which only sows doubts

I know this subject`s been covered innumerable times, and I`ve no desire to be going down this rabbit hole but, to the innocent uninformed bystander, it does look pretty suspicious


there was a camera pointing at the impact site at the Pentagon - it just didn't have enough frames per second to capture the plane. and if there was one camera why would there need to be another one?

and the BBC reporting WTC7 falling 20 minutes before it actually did - how does one take the leap to from this to concluding that it was a controlled demolition. apart from anything else if it was going to be blown up why leak this information 20 minutes before it happened? doesn't make any sense at all.
Report timbuctooth September 14, 2021 1:52 PM BST
Yep, I`ve seen the bit of footage that they`ve shown us, but to think there`s only one camera, and it only takes stills every few seconds, there`s no video cameras at all, is preposterous. We`re not talking about a back alley in the suburbs, we`re talking about the world`s centre for spying and surveillance.
Quite apart from the fact that whatever did hit The Pentagon doesn`t look anything like an aeroplane, and that approach angle is entirely unrealistic for a jetliner
Report edy September 14, 2021 2:01 PM BST
Did the Republicans stage it all?
Report A_T September 14, 2021 2:08 PM BST
Did the Republicans stage it all?


and if they did why?
Report Reynard September 14, 2021 2:30 PM BST
Where did the towers go ????? Confused
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 14, 2021 3:08 PM BST
What happened to the plane and the passengers if it didn't hit the pentagon?
Report A_T September 14, 2021 3:17 PM BST
if it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon then why not - the "conspiracists" were quite happy to use airliners to hit the twin towers so why not the Pentagon?
Report A_T September 14, 2021 3:23 PM BST
then as Porcupine says there's the 64 on board Flight 77 that supposedly didn't hit the Pentagon - where are they? when there was a perfectly good hijacked airliner to attack the Pentagon why use a missile which then leaves you the problem of what to do with Flight 77 and it's passengers?

The conspiracies don't make any sense on the most basic level.
Report Giuseppe September 14, 2021 3:29 PM BST
i think one of the theories is that an airliner was shot down by a missile
Report Giuseppe September 14, 2021 3:29 PM BST
and the government don;t want to admit that
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 14, 2021 3:30 PM BST
So where is it? None of these conspiracists have been able to trace the scorched earth where it crashed. Not a trace of the fuselage could be picked up as it broke into a thousand pieces spread over dozens of square miles? Did David Copperfield do it?
Report A_T September 14, 2021 3:31 PM BST
i think one of the theories is that an airliner was shot down by a missile


which one?
Report saddo September 14, 2021 3:32 PM BST
A bit of an own goal if they shot it down and it hit the Pentagon, who was the pilot, Unlucky Alf?
Report Giuseppe September 14, 2021 3:33 PM BST
presumably the one that hit the pentagon
Report Reynard September 14, 2021 3:37 PM BST
saddo • September 14, 2021 3:32 PM BST
A bit of an own goal if they shot it down and it hit the Pentagon, who was the pilot, Unlucky Ali?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 14, 2021 3:42 PM BST
Nah saddo, he fired two missiles
one shot down plane, tother
veered off into pentagon

Was going for hat trick as Air force
one was about, but they wouldnt
let him fire no3
Report A_T September 14, 2021 3:46 PM BST
tother
veered off into pentagon


a bit like closing your eyes and throwing a 180 Laugh
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 3:51 PM BST
The smell of cordite at the Pentagon has never been addressed, lazy journalism at its best.

Some of the top brass who were in the Pentagon are on record as saying they could smell cordite.

The president addressed them at the Pentagon on 9/12 and told them remember this, remember the smell of cordite.

In fact bbc HARDtalk interviewed the retired admiral in charge of nato in Jan this year, funny enough they even have him quote of him mentioning cordite at the Pentagon.

The purpose of the interview was to bash trump and the cordite question was never asked.

Perhaps their is a perfectly good reason for the distinctive smell of cordite to be at the Pentagon, maybe I have missed it.

'Watching the Capitol riots reminded me of 9/11'
Retired US admiral and former Supreme Commander of Nato’s armed forces James Stavridis says he was reminded of the anger he felt after the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, in 2001.

"I was in the Pentagon on 9/11. I literally watched the plane hit the Pentagon. and the next day George Bush came to the Pentagon and assembled all the admirals and generals and he was angry. And he said, 'I want you to remember this day, to remember what it feels like, as you smell the cordite'.

Today, I suspect, as the work of Congress returns, there must be anger felt by many as they smell that tear gas lingering."


If only he asked the question, if only....

Lazy basturt imo.
Report A_T September 14, 2021 3:59 PM BST
If only he asked the question, if only....


what question?
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 4:04 PM BST
It's very difficult to find a picture of the initial entry Hole at the Pentagon,before the front facade collapsed.

The one that showed a hole very similar to the exit hole, the one that looked like a missile hole.

The one that shows no sign of two 3 ton engines, apparently the wings and engines all folded in and went through the single round hole.

Very odd.
Report A_T September 14, 2021 4:06 PM BST
I can imagine Stephen Sacher asking the admiral - "you say you literally saw the plane hit the Pentagon then you say you smelled cordite- you're lying about the plane aren't you it was a missile!" Laugh
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 4:07 PM BST
The very obvious question A_T

Where did the smell of cordite come from?

Ffs Laugh
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 4:10 PM BST
Tbh..he sayed I literally saw it.........

Hmm. Strange
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 4:17 PM BST
James, where did the cordite smell come from?

That would have been fine imo.

As I sayed, this question must have been resolved by now???????

I must have just missed the official explanation.
Report A_T September 14, 2021 4:26 PM BST
cordite hasn't been used as a military propellant since WW2
Report Whisperingdeath September 14, 2021 4:28 PM BST
cordite hasn't been used as a military propellant since WW2


Haldane's Army reforms 2008!

Cordite!
Report A_T September 14, 2021 4:29 PM BST
the remains of highjackers and passengers of Flight 77 were found at the Pentagon crash site. Maybe they were all sitting on the missile? Grin
Report Whisperingdeath September 14, 2021 4:30 PM BST
1908 even!
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 4:50 PM BST
I never mentioned a missile A_T

You did.

No more questions, defendant can leave the Dock.
Report A_T September 14, 2021 4:55 PM BST
nope I haven't finished

Tbh..he sayed I literally saw it.........

Hmm. Strange


what's strange about it?
Report A_T September 14, 2021 4:57 PM BST
I never mentioned a missile A_T


yes you did

The one that showed a hole very similar to the exit hole, the one that looked like a missile hole.


return to the dock please
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 14, 2021 5:03 PM BST

Sep 14, 2021 -- 9:32AM, saddo wrote:


A bit of an own goal if they shot it down and it hit the Pentagon, who was the pilot, Unlucky Alf?


Laugh

Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 6:02 PM BST
I mentioned the M word more in the context of the size and shape of the exit hole not in relation to the smell of cordite.

There is a theory that the weight of the landing gear, combined with the theory of the wings folding in gave the fuselage the weighted energy to punch through six walls.

However the lack of any plane debri outside or close to the exit hole I find hard to fathom, also the official explanation that most of the plane disintegrated, burned, melted inside building is not backed up by official footage inside the building, there is pictures of intact offices, desks and all.

Hope this clarifies the exit hole comment.

However

Cordite question remains .

If only he had asked, lazy lazy stuff, although was just too keen to participate in trump bashing, prob didn't even listen to what he said, just tickings off trump  bashing boxes.

Surprised drinking bleach wasn't mentioned
Tbh
Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 6:29 PM BST

Sep 14, 2021 -- 10:55AM, A_T wrote:


nope I haven't finishedTbh..he sayed I literally saw it.........Hmm. Strangewhat's strange about it?


Retired Four-Star Naval Officer Admiral @stavridisj was in the Pentagon when the plane crashed into it on 9/11. “I glimpsed something immediately followed by a massive explosion…it was 150 feet to my right,” he remembers. Tonight on The News with Shepard Smith

Report breadnbutter September 14, 2021 6:41 PM BST
Literalky, to me is a strange word,  many words are but this one is odd but here is a bit on the word and backs up what I mean.

The Today programme on Radio 4 had a fascinating debate on the misuse of the word literally. You can hear the whole thing here and it's well worth a listen. It seems to have been prompted by this prime example from the deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, on Saturday, when he said:

It makes people so incredibly angry when you are getting up early in the morning, working really hard to try and do the right thing for your family and for your community, you are paying your taxes and then you see people literally in a different galaxy who are paying extraordinarily low rates of tax.

One guest on Radio 4 pointed out that that is quite a long way for someone to go just for a tax avoidance scheme.

Among the other examples quoted on the Today programme was the TV celebrity Ulrika Jonsson, when talking about the Swedish system of child custody after divorce, said that they "literally will split the child in half to live one week with the mother ..." The singer/actor Rachel Stevens described her legs as "literally turning to jelly" on Strictly Come Dancing. Twitter picked up the mantle with a deluge of examples.

@dangerhere suggested:

Jamie Redknapp: "In his youth, Michael Owen was literally a greyhound."

@GromKath suggested:

Leona Lewis, on winning X-Factor ''I LITERALLY jumped out of my skin''

There was also a slightly higher-brow debate about what the right use of the word is:

@TJCA90 tweeted:

Figuratively speaking, I dislike how people say #literally when they mean metaphorically.

The appropriately named @MiddleClassHB wrote:

People, the opposite of #literally is #figuratively. Don't start going round saying "Metaphorically...", like an A-level English student.

The misuse of the word literally is well documented and much complained about. Search the term on YouTube and you'll find many comedians labouring the point. It's thought of as a modern linguistic oddity but in fact the word has been misused for centuries.

On Twitter @sarahditum points out that Fowler's dictionary of modern English usage (1996 edition) records the misuse of the term as far as the early 19th century.

From the 16th century onwards it has been used to indicate that the accompanying word or phrase must be taken in the literal sense: e.g. It is found that the Act does not mean literally what it says–Law Time Rep., 1895. A word of this type, however, is liable to become weakened in sense, i.e. to be used in contexts where it does not exactly fit. Uses of this kind, displaying varying degrees of inexactness, have been recorded since at least the early C19th. The OED (1903) expressed it thus: 'Now often improperly used to indicate that some conventional or hypothetical phrase is to be taken in the strongest possible sense.' It's a case of 'stop, look, and think before using the word in any manner short of its exact sense.

In this fascinating 2005 National Public Radio interview Jesse Sheidlower, editor at large of the Oxford English Dictionary, cites literary examples of the word literally being used to "intensify statements" as early as the 17th century and misused from the 19th century. But he says objections were only raised in the early 20th century. He said:

As is often the case, though, such abuses have a long and esteemed history in English. The ground was not especially sticky in "Little Women" when Louisa May Alcott wrote: 'The land literally flowed with milk and honey.' Tom Sawyer was not turning somersaults on piles of money when Mark Twain described him as 'literally rolling in wealth'. Jay Gatsby was not shining when Fitzgerald wrote that he 'literally glowed'. Such examples are easily come by, even in the works of the authors we are often told to emulate.

How did literally come to mean the opposite of what it originally meant, either 'word for word' or 'exactly'? By the late 17th century, 'literally' was being used as an intensifier for true statements. Jane Austen wrote of being 'literally rocked in bed on a stormy night.' In such examples, 'literally' is being used for the sake of emphasis alone. Eventually, though, 'literally' began to be used to intensify statements that were themselves figurative or metaphorical. You can find examples throughout the 19th century, but no one seems to have objected until the early 20th. In 1909, the satirist Ambrose Bierce included the term in "Write it Right," a little blacklist of literary faults. 'It is bad enough to exaggerate,' he wrote, 'but to affirm the truth of the exaggeration is intolerable.'

In truth, many words are used in seemingly contradictory ways. They're known as Janus words, contronymns or autoantonyms. They include 'cleave,' which means both 'to stick to' and 'to split apart,' and the verb 'dust,' meaning both 'to remove dust from' and to 'sprinkle dust upon.' And don't forget 'peruse' and 'scan,' each of which means both 'to read closely' and 'to skim.'

Does it matter? Get in touch with examples or opinions below the line, tweet me at @pollycurtis or email polly.curtis@guardian.co.uk.

12.10pm:

Tom Chivers, the Telegraph's, assistant comment editor, has written this interesting blog on the debate arguing that we shouldn't take Jamie Redknapp literally and that he's right - the common understanding of the term is now as an emphasiser. He writes:

"Literally" is just doing the same work as "really" or "honestly" or "actually", emphasising the truth of the statement, not its non-metaphorical nature.

So we're wrong to criticise Jamie Redknapp for saying "literally". Words only mean what people understand them to mean, and no one thinks he means that David Silva can levitate; and even if we are obsessed with etymology and past use, the word has not meant solely "non-metaphorical" for centuries, if it ever really did. We can say we don't like it – I, for example, think that there are plenty of words which mean "really" or "very much", and only one word which does the work "literally" does, and it's nice to keep these things separate. But in the end it's just taste. And, what's more, it's a shibboleth in the second-oldest sense of that word: like pronouncing it "haitch" or using "impact" as a verb, it tells those of us who are snobbish that this person is Not Like Us. So, before you literally get on your high horse about "literally", remember that you're wrong. Literally, and actually, wrong. And Jamie Redknapp is right.

Jamie Redknapp
By popular consensus Redknapp deserves an entry of his own in the catalogue of errors of the use of the word literally. Our Mind your language blog covered Redknapp's unique and repeated use of the word here.

This link came via @harry_lime and includes the gems:

These balls now - they literally explode off your feet.

He's literally left Ben Haim for dead there.


Alonso and Sissoko have been picked to literally sit in front of the back four.

And these via the blog northstandchat:


He had to cut back inside onto his left, because he literally hasn't got a right foot.


He's literally turned him inside out.


That cross to Rooney was literally on a plate.

James Schofield, who is working on our newsdesk with us this week, has come up with some more examples of when literally goes wrong. (Hat tips to these three blogs: http://www.parryphernalia.com/?tag=literally-misuse, http://literally.barelyfitz.com/ and http://literallymisused.com/).

Jerry Falwell, the late evangelical fundamentalist Southern Baptist pastor:

Someone must not be afraid to say, 'moral perversion is wrong.' If we do not act now, homosexuals will own America! If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way … and our nation will pay a terrible price!

Fearne Cotton had a rather nasty time with a rogue book. She tweeted regarding her book club reading:

I was literally dragged through this book squirming, gasping and wincing.

A Radio 5Live weather forecast of:


Literally just a spot or two of rain.

Kate Silverton on BBC News:


You were up against the Norwegians who are literally born on skis.

A Joe Biden speech from August 2008 had eight uses of the word literally, including:

The next President of the United States is going to be delivered to the most significant moment in American history since Franklin Roosevelt. He will have such an incredible opportunity, incredible opportunity, not only to change the direction of America, but literally, literally to change the direction of the world...

Ladies and gentlemen, America gave Jill and me our chance. It gave Barack and Michelle their chance to stand on this stage today. It's literally incredible.Folks, again, it's not political sloganary when I say we literally can't afford four more years of this non- energy policy written by and for the oil companies, making us more and more dependent from hostile nations on our ability to run this country and literally, not figuratively, literally putting America's security at risk, we can't afford four more years of a foreign policy that has shredded our alliances and sacrificed our moral standing around the world.

3.50pm: Thanks very much for all your comments below the line where readers have been pointing out some lovely literary misuses of literally. @Rlnbvt has this from Vladimir Nabokov's Invitation to a beheading:

And with his eyes he literally scoured the corners of the cell.

@R1cardo points out Mrs Markleham in David Copperfield, saying:

Perhaps you know, Miss Trotwood, that there is never a candle lighted in this house, until one's eyes are literally falling out of one's head with being stretched to read the paper.


As well as this passage from Jane Eyre:

Mr. Rochester continued blind the first two years of our union; perhaps it was that circumstance that drew us so very near, that knit us so very close: for I was then his vision, as I am still his right hand. Literally, I was (what he often called me) the apple of his eye.

@Newportonian gives his favourite, his local newspaper reporting on the perilous position of a local dairy farmer:

With the price of feed being what it is today, the cows are literally milking him.

Readers have also been coming up with other contranyms - a word that can mean the opposite of itself – such as sanction (@Paulhalsall).

@Prego writes:

One can peel a banana, and one can unpeel a banana, and both verbs mean the same thing. Literally.

@FilmPixie writes:

I've often wondered about the word "cleave."As in, a meat cleaver separates meat into two pieces but in the old marriage service the man "cleaved" to the woman.

And MickGJ has:

Alternatively there's "flammable" and "inflammable" meaning the same. There's a great line from Cheers about that where Woody the barman chips in with "Boy, did I find that one out the hard way."

@Threadworm gives us this very reasoned analysis:

Many terms that function as intensifiers (i.e. words that strengthen/amplify the meaning of the word or phrase that they qualify) have earlier meanings that map quite poorly onto their role as intensifiers. Think of "so," "really," "awfully," "terribly." But we accept these readily because they have had the role of intensifier long enough for their other meanings to lie dormant when we hear them operating as such.

The only difference with "literally" is that its role as an intensifier is newer, so its other meaning still clamours in our mind when we hear it. The anxiety about this new role for "literally" is just the usual case of pedantry failing to keep up with linguistic evolution.

There are also words that do the opposite of intensifying -- words that dampen the strength of the terms they qualify -- "fairly," "quite," "rather," etc. And these too tend to have earlier meanings that map poorly onto their "dampening" role.

"Quite" is a brilliant example. It means something like "exactly" rather than "only a little bit." But we readily accept its use as a dampner, in expressions like "I'm quite hungry, but not very." AND we accept its use to the opposite effect, as an intensifier: the expression "You are quite right," means something like "You are very right," not "You are a little bit right."

Words have their own lives and careers.


Hth,.... If only the lazy journo had asked, the lazy basturt.
Report Giuseppe September 14, 2021 6:45 PM BST
****g pedants
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