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tanglefoot
29 Aug 21 18:02
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Date Joined: 12 May 12
| Topic/replies: 20,950 | Blogger: tanglefoot's blog
looking quite sharp
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Report potlis August 29, 2021 10:26 PM BST
You could compare the Northern Alliance entry into Kabul with the French forces being allowed to be the first to enter a liberated Paris, those mainly responsible for its liberation followed later.
Report potlis August 29, 2021 10:28 PM BST
I was pointing out how modern wars are now fought, not comparing the two campaigns.
Report Giuseppe August 29, 2021 10:33 PM BST
sure, if the free french had also won the battle of normandy too, with US and British air support
Report Dr Crippen August 29, 2021 10:34 PM BST
Giuseppe, Gorbachev annonced the Russian withdrawl in 1987.
Report Giuseppe August 29, 2021 10:43 PM BST
announced maybe but the decision was made earlier

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan#Events_leading_up_to_military_withdrawal

Understanding that the Soviet Union's troublesome economic and international situation was complicated by its involvement in the Afghan War, Gorbachev "had decided to seek a withdrawal from Afghanistan and had won the support of the Politburo to do so [by October 1985]".[3]:193[4]:74

He later strengthened his support base at the top level of Soviet government further by expanding the Politburo with his allies.[5]:248

To fulfill domestic and foreign expectations, Gorbachev aimed to withdraw having achieved some degree of success.

At home, Gorbachev was forced to satisfy the hawkish military-industrial complex, military leadership, and intelligence agencies[6]:119 (later, Gorbachev would tell UN Envoy Diego Cordovez that the impact of the war lobby should not be overestimated; Cordovez recalls that Gorbachev's advisors were not unanimous in this pronouncement, but all agreed that disagreements with the US, Pakistan, and realities in Kabul played a bigger role in delaying withdrawal).[5]:245

Abroad, Gorbachev aimed to retain prestige in the eyes of third-world allies.

He, like Soviet leaders before him, considered only a dignified withdrawal to be acceptable.[6]:117

This necessitated the creation of stability within Afghanistan, which the Soviet Union would attempt to accomplish until its eventual withdrawal in 1988-9.[4]:75[5]:208

Three objectives were viewed by Gorbachev as conditions needed for withdrawal: internal stability, limited foreign intervention, and international recognition of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan's Communist government.[4]:93
Report Giuseppe August 29, 2021 10:45 PM BST
1985-89 was like 1968-72 in Vietnam, US had given up and just wanted to save face
Report sofaking August 30, 2021 4:01 AM BST
The TaIiban are a great bunch of lads.  They have some interesting policies and beliefs that I'm totally onboard with.
Report sofaking August 30, 2021 4:03 AM BST

Aug 29, 2021 -- 1:08PM, Knight Commander wrote:


$85Billion of ordnance left behind for the terrorists to use. Unreal.The Taliban are probably better equipped than our forces now. They'll be invading us next.


All this military equipment was left in Afghanistan for China to use and reverse-engineer.  We're witnessing the controlled demolition of the American empire.

Report dustybin August 30, 2021 8:50 AM BST
They’ve been trying to copy the boats for years, especially the aircraft carriers. They bought some old wrecks and tarted them up and have been working on a new class in a dry dock that the Americans have been watching build and apparently it’s mostly cosmetic.
My money is still on America.
Report dustybin August 30, 2021 8:56 AM BST
I read a great piece the other week on spying. Apparently there are all these techniques used to stop surveillance from satellites using all sorts of beams on differing wavelengths (I forget the technologies) but the spyers are well ahead of those attempting to be covert. In one instance this bunker was kitted out with a special roof but the walls weren’t and they were bouncing these beams through the shutters and could see what they were doing.
Report Dr Crippen August 30, 2021 10:58 AM BST
We're witnessing the controlled demolition of the American empire.

It reminds me of the death of Europe.

All self inflicted.
Report moisok August 30, 2021 11:46 AM BST
Gus - no such thing as a moderate - I thought you understood Islam?
Report Dr Crippen August 30, 2021 12:55 PM BST
^I just thought of a cracker regarding that.

Better keep it to myself.

I don't know who's on today.
Report Corky August 30, 2021 3:30 PM BST
I have no regard for our leaders and usually favor the c0ck up theory rather than the conspiracy theory, but leaving the Taliban Blackhawks that could presumably have been flown out does make you wonder what's going on.
Report A_T August 30, 2021 3:52 PM BST
flown out by who? they were in the hands of the Afghan military who scarpered. Do you think the US should have left the Afghan army without any equipment and weapons?
Report Corky August 30, 2021 4:04 PM BST
If I was scarpering from the Taliban I would have thought a helicopter was a fairly good choice of transport.
Report A_T August 30, 2021 4:09 PM BST
they just never came in for work once the American salaries stop being paid
Report dustybin August 30, 2021 5:09 PM BST
One of the biggest problems the Afghan army had was not being able to properly operate the equipment given them....and that was with Anerican training, it was simply too advanced for them.
So there;s little chance that the Taliban sandal wearers will get much use out of it.
Plus nobody will fix any of it when it breaks, and it breaks often.
Report Dr Crippen August 30, 2021 8:19 PM BST
I heard some military expert going on about the Afghan army being untrainable and no good as soldiers.

So how does he explain the Taliban's walkover, who are manned by the same kinds of people but far fewer of them?
Report A_T August 30, 2021 8:27 PM BST
Easily. The Taliban aren't the Afghan army.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:07 AM BST
It’s what I’ve been saying all along; transplanting Western ideals onto Afghan mentality is too artificial.
Taliban believe they are sacrificing for something, the Afghan army and the people in general just go along with something that doesn’t suit.
There’s a reason Afghanistan is poor and it’s frankly boring to continually highlight outside countries keeping them that way, they have done no advancing on their own because of Islam.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:10 AM BST
I kept seeing stories on the news about ‘British Afghans’ who were caught up in the evacuation problems while they returned to Afghan to collect their families,..

Each one was either an Uber taxi driver or had a pizza takeaway business
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:14 AM BST
Rupert Allason and Farage were talking about he Afghan army

Allason pouinting out how much they relied on US tech and support, drones etc used to avoid IEDs, and all this was removed overnight

Farage pointed out the Afghan army had taken 45,000 casualties fighting the Taliban since 2014

Biden has some ****g cheek saying they gave up
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:17 AM BST
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)

Casualties and losses

Afghan security forces:
67,558–70,558+ killed[49][50]

Coalition:
Dead: 3,576

United States: 2,420
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:18 AM BST
they gave up because you abandoned them joe you sleepy ****wit
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:21 AM BST
They lost so many because the regular Afghan army didn’t believe in what they were fighting for, it’s a land of warlords and influence and corruption.

It’s no coincidence that the Arabs were the leaders in mathematics until Islam was invented…then they reverted back to the Iron Age.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:23 AM BST
"They lost so many because the regular Afghan army didn’t believe in what they were fighting for"

what does that even mean?
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:23 AM BST
70,000 dead mate
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:24 AM BST
lol the arabs were nomads living in tents before Islam
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:26 AM BST
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

The Islamic Golden Age (Arabic: العصر الذهبي للإسلام‎, romanized: al-'asr al-dhahabi lil-islam), was a period of cultural, economic, and scientific flourishing in the history of Islam, traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 14th century.[1][2][3]

This period is traditionally understood to have begun during the reign of the Abbasid caliph Harun al-Rashid (786 to 809) with the inauguration of the House of Wisdom in Baghdad, the world's largest city by then, where Islamic scholars and polymaths from various parts of the world with different cultural backgrounds were mandated to gather and translate all of the known world's classical knowledge into Syriac and Arabic.[4]

The period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258.[5]

A few scholars date the end of the golden age around 1350 linking with the Timurid Renaissance,[6][7] while several modern historians and scholars place the end of the Islamic Golden Age as late as the end of 15th to 16th centuries meeting with the Age of the Islamic Gunpowders.[1][2][3] (The medieval period of Islam is very similar if not the same, with one source defining it as 900–1300 CE.)[8]
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:26 AM BST
That they ran away or gave up their weapons or undermined each other’s confidence.
Most of the actual advancing was done by ‘special forces’ Afghans that got shipped around the country.
They are simply not cut out to fight for a democratic civilisation.

Let’s see this great Islamic nation now become a world power and intellect….or it will remain a basket case, I know where my money is.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:26 AM BST
outside of Italy most Europeans were living in mud huts during this era
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:27 AM BST
70,000 of them died fighting for the Afghan state

what part of that are you disputing?
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:29 AM BST
why did they fight for 20 years and then give up suddenly when the US withdrew overnight

is that just a coincidence?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:31 AM BST
Yes and look at how pathetic it is, all those deaths and still the West are incriminated. Who killed all those poor soldiers?
Ofc judging by the news it’s all America’s fault.
Today the headline story was the emotive story of 10 ‘family members’ killed at the allegation of defensive American rockets.
Even if that were true, why were America forced to fire them?
Because of backward terrorists.
Well now we see how advanced the Taliban Islamic society will be.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:32 AM BST
Why?
Because the Americans underpinned the whole thing. The Afghans on their own revert back to goat herders when the skills and tech of America go.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:34 AM BST
it is America's fault

Afghanistan wasn't ready for a complete withdrawal

most Afghans just want a stable state and a relatively conservative society, they don;t want extremists like the Taliban
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:35 AM BST
Haha ‘fighting for the Afghan state’.
I truly don’t think they even really understood why they were fighting, it was all artificial to them.

Afghanistan weren’t ready for a withdrawal?
Needed another 20 years did they?
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:36 AM BST
70,000 dead

maybe they did yes

like south korea

they've had 30,000 US troops for 60 years
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:36 AM BST
The fun and games will be the Prime Minister who still claims responsibility for dead democracy holed out in the mountain region with what’s left of the rag tag army.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:37 AM BST
germany had (still has) huge us bases

are they goatherders too?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:37 AM BST
And if that doesn’t tell you the transplanted mentality of social democracy isn’t totally wasted on brainwashed Islamic mindsets I don’t know what will.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:39 AM BST
You double daft?
The Korean War isn’t officially over because of N.Korea.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:39 AM BST
you a tommy robinson fan by any chance?
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:39 AM BST
lol why can't south korea defend itself?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:40 AM BST
No, I’m just sick to death of the whole notion being warped into a self loathing excercise.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:42 AM BST
Biden **** up

the taliban taking over is not in America's strategic interest and could have been avoided at minimal cost to the US
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:43 AM BST
N.Korea are aggressors in the region, the whole area is threatened by what they do. Even Japan get threatened.
You won’t be alive to see China’s world hegemony, but if you were you’ll have wished for America to return.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:45 AM BST
It wasn’t done to many people’s preference agreed, but we are sure to f00kibg hear about it arn’t we?
It’s all about brow beating the West continually.
No money going into the country now, where was that coming from>
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:45 AM BST
why can't south korea defend themselves?

why is the US prepared to help them but not the Afghans?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:45 AM BST
Shut up and go to bed you tedious cont
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:46 AM BST
expect big increase in opium production now too

cheap heroin on european streets

thanks joe
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:47 AM BST
you can't answer my question because you are an idiot
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:47 AM BST
Yeah, no advanced tech and world leading thinkers then no?
That’s right, they go revert back to the Iorn Age
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:48 AM BST
I’m going to be myself not opening new dialog with pathetic specimens such as you
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:48 AM BST
lol south korea is the tenth largest economy in the world

they need help but the afghans don't?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:48 AM BST
Going to bed myself*
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:49 AM BST
They ain’t as damn corrupt of as backwards
Afghanistan was a money pit because they arn’t up for civilisation.
Let’s see how China turns it into a shining city on the hill….or not.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:51 AM BST
without muslims there would have been no renaissance in europe

for centuries they were the only ones interested in science, they were helped preserve the greek texts

algebra is an arabic word
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:52 AM BST
Which was exactly my point, their advances came before Islam was invented, then they got left behind.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:54 AM BST
the arabs were nomads herding goats in the desert before islam

algebra was invented in the 8th century, after islam
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 2:55 AM BST
the romans didn't bother to conquer arabia because there was nothing there
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:57 AM BST
What a tedious prick you are, so they haven’t been left behind since Islam held them back like a lead weight?
Yeah ok.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 2:59 AM BST
Go back to begging or p1ss off and get used by those you seem to think you are helping you hero.
Instead of denigrating the West.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 3:01 AM BST
i'm denigrating the west i'm denigrating biden
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 3:03 AM BST
you don't understand the history of islam

arabs were nothing before islam

within two centuries they had conquered spain

islamic spain was a much more sophisticated society than early medieval england

christianity was far more anti-science than islam

the koran encourages inquiry
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 3:04 AM BST
i'm not denigrating the west
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 3:06 AM BST
muslims invented soap too

even the romans never figured out how to wash themselves properly
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 3:09 AM BST
You completely miss the point
The advances made were cutting edge advances that led the world, now where are they?
Coming up with nonsense about how the stars are ‘lamps’ that will fall to earth or that the moon split in two then reformed.
Stop hand wringing and go to their country if you are sick of your freedoms.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 3:11 AM BST
You spread enough horse sh it for a whole new religion yourself man.
You obviously hate yourself so go and get some sandals and live under their theocratic regimes.
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 3:12 AM BST
the pope imprisoned galileo for saying the earth went around the sun
Report Giuseppe August 31, 2021 3:15 AM BST
christianity had a bigger retrograde effect on european civilisation than islam had on the middle east

the pagan romans and greeks were light years ahead of medieval europeans in achievement
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 3:16 AM BST
That’s region wholesale for you, but we released its degenerate shackles, unlike Islam.

Why are you even on this website, surely it’s haram?
Grow some pride man.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 9:33 AM BST

Giuseppe's slippers.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 9:40 AM BST
Just to clarify....

There clearly are many individual muslims who excel at maths or science, but they do so in spite of Islam.
Its extremely tenuous of Giuseppe to imply Islam assisted the development of the human race, it didn't it clearly chastised it on manmade dellusions that created abhorant interpretations like we see today.

I have a graph waiting for the mods to clear that breaks down the statistics of deaths in Afghanistan, to clarify the often made assumption that the Afghans were 'brace' simply because they weren't very good.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 9:41 AM BST
*'brave' even
Report Dr Crippen August 31, 2021 10:13 AM BST
All that American tackle and no one smart enough to figure out how it works.

We'll be seeing pictures of armoured vehicles pulled along by horses soon.

Or do they use camels?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 10:30 AM BST


Here we see the truth behind the assertions of the fact the Afghan army were 'brave' simply for dying in large numbers.

To suggest they were brave rather than inept means that either the allied forces weren't....or that the Taliban didn't really want to kill Westerners at all and just had it in for their own civilians and army.
The Afghan army far outnumbered the Taliban and were given equipment and training far supperior, they also had air cover....and yet they still blew it. I know Id not want to have been in a fox hole with a man who could either be bribed or didnt fully subscribe to the ideology and were just in the army because it paid better than selling woven baskets in the market.

As you can see deaths wholesale picked up after the Americans seeded power and responsibility over to Afghanistan to rule themselves. Had they not done so they would have been called a conquering power.
It is also forgotten the pathetic GDP in Afghanistan and that all the civil workers were subsidised from outside, something the Taliban were very slow to condemn...now its gone lets see how they do.
Report Whisperingdeath August 31, 2021 11:33 AM BST

To suggest they were brave rather than inept means that either the allied forces weren't....or that the Taliban didn't really want to kill Westerners at all and just had it in for their own civilians and army.
The Afghan army far outnumbered the Taliban and were given equipment and training far supperior, they also had air cover....and yet they still blew it. I know Id not want to have been in a fox hole with a man who could either be bribed or didnt fully subscribe to the ideology and were just in the army because it paid better than selling woven baskets in the market.


To suggest the UK Education System is effective is also a myth just as the lie to “ save the NHS “ has seen designed to pull the wool over the eyes of simple people who nit only cannot think for themselves but are happy to be lead by donkeys jud5 lik3 the person who posted the above.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:07 PM BST
WD clearly flummoxed over the fact he can't label the West an occupying power that he no doubt would have done had they remained propping up a rare democratic muslim state.
Also spitting features at so few America casulaties compared to the indigenous Afghans, must have been down to luck.
Or perhaps it was Allan like the Taliban said and he's getting his ticket to go f uck off there and live with them in the new found land of milk and honey?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:15 PM BST
The very sort of claims made by the Taliban today are the sorts of things that used to be made over here in the Dark Ages, Divine Right etc.
It's just really really odd isn't it that Allan supposedly wanted so many Afghans punished for attempting at democracy, yet didn't slay many Americans?
Report politicspunter August 31, 2021 12:22 PM BST

Aug 31, 2021 -- 6:07AM, dustybin wrote:


WD clearly flummoxed over the fact he can't label the West an occupying power that he no doubt would have done had they remained propping up a rare democratic muslim state.Also spitting features at so few America casulaties compared to the indigenous Afghans, must have been down to luck.Or perhaps it was Allan like the Taliban said and he's getting his ticket to go f uck off there and live with them in the new found land of milk and honey?


It wasn't down to luck, it was because Trump made a deal with the Taliban that the US would withdraw if the Taliban didn't attack them.

Report Whisperingdeath August 31, 2021 12:23 PM BST
Clearly flummoxed our education system produces fools, yesWink

Save the NHS

I believe!

Let’s get Brexit Done!

Oven Ready Deal

Control our Borders!

Simple folk lead like sheep
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:26 PM BST
PP
Are you saying the Taliban over the 20 years before Trump made the agreement didn't fancy killing Americans then?
Even with the *cough* secret weapon of religion on it's side?
Report Whisperingdeath August 31, 2021 12:33 PM BST
4 Presidents

2 $Trillion spent

The greatest military force the World has ever seen and this poster enjoys a cheap laugh at the 100,000 Afghans who died fighting The Taliban and calls them cowards.

I know Id not want to have been in a fox hole with a man who could either be bribed or didnt fully subscribe to the ideology and were just in the army because it paid better than selling woven baskets in the market.

I’d rather be in a foxhole with a man who had the courage to fight these animals rather than some fat, ignorant fool arm chair warrior who calls the people who gave their lives for freedom cowards. You are a brave man dusty bin, shame they didn’t send you over to deal with The Taliban like John Rambo.
Report Whisperingdeath August 31, 2021 12:35 PM BST
You call it an Agreement?

The guy with a “ bone spur “ who avoided the draft?

He negotiated THE SURRENDER!

Very brave. Maybe you could share a Fox hole with him!
Report politicspunter August 31, 2021 12:36 PM BST

Aug 31, 2021 -- 6:26AM, dustybin wrote:


PPAre you saying the Taliban over the 20 years before Trump made the agreement didn't fancy killing Americans then?Even with the *cough* secret weapon of religion on it's side?


They did kill Americans before the agreement.

Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:45 PM BST
Wd
Ghani was a coward, the Afghan army were just more used to herding goats and trembling eachtime it thundered.
Think you mix courage and desperation. Courage is in scant regard when they climbing over each other to get to the West.
6ft1 12.5st aint especially fat, but then you haven't got much right why start now?

PP
Look at the numbers, to say god was willing then why did he not kill American's on the scale he 'apparently' did with the Afghans?
Report A_T August 31, 2021 12:51 PM BST
Americans would have been a lot harder to kill
Report politicspunter August 31, 2021 12:51 PM BST
PP
Look at the numbers, to say god was willing then why did he not kill American's on the scale he 'apparently' did with the Afghans?


The Taliban killed Americans before Trumps deal, they didn't kill them after Trumps deal. The US troops were certainly better trained and armed than any Afghans, with air support, hence reduced losses.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:52 PM BST
But surely Allan could get to them....no?
Report politicspunter August 31, 2021 12:53 PM BST
Allan who?
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:54 PM BST
Quite.
Report politicspunter August 31, 2021 12:55 PM BST
Frankly, I haven't a clue what point you are trying to make.
Report A_T August 31, 2021 12:57 PM BST
I'm not convinced dusty does either
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 12:58 PM BST
ffs man.
Ive been saying the place is backward and ill equiped to have democracy and that its in the Iron Age because of religion.
If the Taliban were justified in claiming they have god on their side and all that horse 5hit, then why did he not chose to kill Americans and only pick on Afghans in the main?
Or was it possibly because American are better fighters handed over power to rule themselves and the Afghans simply couldnt hold their own s hit?
Report Whisperingdeath August 31, 2021 1:02 PM BST
He hasn’t got a point save to be obnoxious to make his dour little life more acceptable. He puts down people 4,000 miles away, has no insight and no comprehension, no ideas of his own. He deals in put downs, sad waste of life.
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 1:05 PM BST
Im refering to the stats, what are you doing?
Clubbing all rhetoric and ideologies into pigeon holes and thinking that because you dont like brexit then that must therefore equate to you being a lapdog appologist for the Taliban and anti American.
And you call me sad.

Like I said, you can do there now...if the airport is functioning taking incomers ofc.
Report Whisperingdeath August 31, 2021 1:05 PM BST
Or was it possibly because American are better fighters

Erm The Great Orange Draft Dodger negotiated their SURRENDER to The Taliban.

$2 Trillion, the greatest fire power ever assembled on earth and they lost to cave dwellers!

Hmmmn
Report dustybin August 31, 2021 1:09 PM BST
See what I mean?
How were America defeated when they just averted their attention to the next confrontation?
The small minded Taliban could all have been massacred and new ones kept pinned down in their holes like they mostly were while America ran the show....but new ones would always emerge due to the ancient mentality they have.

You can bleech your toilet....but bacteria will return.
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