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tanglefoot
29 Aug 21 18:02
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looking quite sharp

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By:
Knight Commander
When: 29 Aug 21 19:08
$85Billion of ordnance left behind for the terrorists to use. Unreal.

The Taliban are probably better equipped than our forces now. They'll be invading us next.
By:
macarony
When: 29 Aug 21 19:11
It was on the news a while back that Isis were in Afghanistan and they were fighting the Taliban for control. Now America have pulled out and the Afghan army simply stood down allowing the Taliban to take control of the country, would I be wrong in thinking that there had been some deal between the US and the Afghans allowing the Taliban to take control country, the logic being that the Afghan government would been seen as a Western puppet and this would be exploited by Isis?
By:
A_T
When: 29 Aug 21 19:14
would I be wrong in thinking that there had been some deal between the US and the Afghans allowing the Taliban to take control country

there was certainly a deal between the Taliban and the US that allowed the Taliban to take over
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 19:56
ISIS aren't a big player in Afghanistan maacarony

unlikely teh US too worrried about them at the moment
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 20:09
Boris Johnson’s “we owe debt of gratitude” 

Anyone feel they do?
By:
macarony
When: 29 Aug 21 20:25
I think we owe our forces answer all those killed or injured an apology for sending them to fight a pointless political war
By:
dustybin
When: 29 Aug 21 20:28
A lot of people are missing the point that for the Taliban taking control will end up being a poisoned chalice.
It's all easy playing rebel to those in power, the hard bit comes when you have to do it yourself.
They have implied they want to be taken seriously, especially by China, but China wont stand for any 5hit coming over those mountains into Xinjiang and they see Islam as a problem.
How Taliban square that circle while also keeping to the ancient warped version of theocracy at home will be entertaining for the West to watch, especially when the financial taps are turned off.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:31
they already do this in pakistan

they don;t try to cuase trouble there because they want to keep pakistan government friendly

there is a taliban there but the afghan taliban generally see them as a nuisance rather than as an ally
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:33
the taliban were in power for five years remember 1996-2001
By:
dustybin
When: 29 Aug 21 20:36
China wont let them rule like they did then.
They have the Belt and Road initiative rolling out, having a degenerate Islam on their doorstep wont sit well as they push the boundries further afield.
Hate might be too strong a word but they certainly dont trust Islam.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:38
lot of resources in afghanistan (copper and lithium)

US gone now

maybe keeping it this way will be China's priority?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:39
realpolitik

I don;t care who you are as long as you are my enemy's enemy
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:39
China has already reopened the world's second biggest copper mine which is in Afghanistan
By:
dustybin
When: 29 Aug 21 20:42
China have the largest share of commodities refineries anywhere now, having interests in countries like Afghanistan is just the same shere of influence as they are doing in Africa.

China have been scoffing over this but it wont last long. History showed that electorally Vietnam had no impact on politics at either at home or abroad for USA, and they have just cut off a cancer of Afghanistan to focus on China.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:46
I think it will affect Biden personally if he has to face a primary challenge in 2024

rivals will be able to point at how badly he misjudged the situation

they will use this as a critiscism of his crisis management skills rather than say US shoudl ahve actually stayed there

how he did it rather than why
By:
dustybin
When: 29 Aug 21 20:47
I guarentee it will be long forgotten. Around 75% wanted out anyway, they just didnt much like the way it happened, but they will soon forget.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:47
it affects Biden's credibility

would you trust this guy in a war?
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 20:48
The Taliban were the Government from 1996 till we invaded in 2001, and apparently the majority of Afghans were opposed to the invasion even under the Taliban rule.

That being the case, in most war scenarios, those working with the invaders would have been labelled “ collaborators” isn’t that what the French called those who did so in 1940.

Would be interesting to know what those Afghans not flocking to the airport make of those who did.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 20:51
"apparently the majority of Afghans were opposed to the invasion even under the Taliban rule."

why do you say that?

it wasn't really an invasion, it was mostly massive airpower backing a northern alliance offensive
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 20:53
Didn’t we occupy the Country?
By:
dustybin
When: 29 Aug 21 20:53
I hear all this talk about USA/UK getting defeated...
They didnt, they just got board sustaining the world poorest country.
You cant polish turds and the idea those people would make a self sufficient civilisation just became too much of a tedium.
The West wasnt in it for state craft they went in to kill people and thats what they did.
I dare say they will again if they have too, but theres plenty of milage in leaving the place to fester and sit on our laurels showing exactly what happens when we dont tidy up backward mentalities.
By:
dustybin
When: 29 Aug 21 20:54
bored
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:09
an afghan government was set up

NATO was there to support it
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 21:09
Wikipedia

Afghan civilian opposition to the invasion[edit]
One of the best-known women's organization in Afghanistan, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA), condemned the US invasion of Afghanistan, stating that "America ... has launched a vast aggression on our country".

They accused the US and its allies of "paying the least attention to the fate of democracy in Afghanistan" by first having supported for years a "Jehadis-fostering, Osama-fostering and Taliban-fostering" policy before the 2001 US invasion, only to now be "sharpening the dagger of the Northern Alliance" warlords and drug lords that were key allies of the U.S. in its invasion.[7][9]

Our people have been caught in the claws of the monster of a vast war and destruction. ... The continuation of US attacks and the increase in the number of innocent civilian victims not only gives an excuse to the Taliban, but also will cause the empowering of the fundamentalist forces in the region and even in the world.


If they described it as an  invasion who are we to disagree .
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:11
who are we to disagree with the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:12
the northern alliance were the closets thing to good guys in Afghanistan

moderate muslims
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:13
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Kabul_(2001)

The 2001 fall of Kabul took place during the war in Afghanistan.

Northern Alliance forces began their attack on the city on 13 November and made swift progress against Taliban forces that were heavily weakened by American and British air strikes.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:14
large numbers of US and UK troops only went in after the Northern alliance had defeated the Taliban
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:18
the Afghan government was made up of members of the Northern Alliance and various other anti-taliban factions

the Afghans themselves formed it

it wasn't a puppet government
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 21:18
I could cut and paste others if you wish.

And who set the Government up if not the invading forces, and without those forces where are they now?
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 29 Aug 21 21:18
I think most people over estimate the powers that be.
There's little long term planning, what turns out happens by accident.

Look at the way they've conducted this withdrawal
It's gone so badly, you'd think they did it that way on purpose.

Don't you believe your own eyes?
They're all idiots.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:19
how can it be an invasion if ground troops weren't involved?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Interim_Administration#Negotiations_in_Bonn

Four delegations of anti-Taliban factions attended the Bonn Conference: the Northern Alliance or United Islamic Front; the "Cypress group," a group of exiles with ties to Iran; the "Rome group," loyal to former King Mohammad Zahir Shah, who lived in exile in Rome and did not attend the meeting; and the "Peshawar group," a group of mostly Afghan exiles based in Pakistan.

At the time of the conference half of Afghanistan was in the hands of the Northern Alliance, including Kabul where Burhanuddin Rabbani had taken over the Presidential Palace and said that any talks on the future of Afghanistan should take place inside the country.[2]

There was a lot of debate about who would lead the interim government.

Rabbani did not want the Bonn Conference to decide on names for the interim government but after pressure from the United States and Russia the Northern Alliance delegation headed by younger leader Yunus Qanuni, decided to go on with the talks with or without the support of Rabbani.[2]

At the beginning of the conference it seemed that King Zahir Shah had a lot of support, but the Northern Alliance opposed this.

By the final days of the conference, it was down to two candidates: Hamid Karzai, whom the United States was promoting as a viable candidate and Abdul Satar Sirat, whose name was proposed by the Rome group.[2]

The Bonn conference agreed that Karzai would head the Interim Administration.
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 21:24
So who have we been withdrawing over the last few years if not our troops?

And sorry it most certainly was a puppet Government, you would be hard pressed for a better example.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:32
However, in later years the relations between U.S. and Karzai had become strained, particularly Karzai had been very critical of U.S. military because of their high-level of civilian casualties.[55][56][57]

In 2019 he described a "major fight" he had with American military officials back in 2007, when Karzai repeatedly told them: "If you want to fight terrorism and bad people, I won’t stop you, but please leave the Afghan people alone". In a retrospective interview, Karzai claimed he felt that he was being used as a tool by the United States.[58]

Further strain in relations with the United States resulted in 2014, when Afghanistan, joined Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea, Syria, and Venezuela as the only countries to recognize the Russian annexation of Crimea.

The United States, European countries, and most other nations wholeheartedly condemned the Russian takeover, as well as the validity of the subsequent Crimean Referendum on its annexation to Russia. Citing "the free will of the Crimean people," the office of President Hamid Karzai said, "We respect the decision the people of Crimea took through a recent referendum that considers Crimea as part of the Russian Federation."[59]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_Karzai#Foreign_relations

Karzai was not a puppet
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:33
it's likely Jarzai was always managing competing influence from Pakistan, Iran, Russia and the US
By:
casemoney
When: 29 Aug 21 21:35
Can get cold there in the Winter , Joe making sure his comrades are nice and warm
By:
potlis
When: 29 Aug 21 21:41
Of course he was a puppet the Afghan people recognised him as such, his army refused to fight to keep him in place probably because of it.

So who have we been withdrawing over the last few years if not our troops?  35 thousand troops on the ground at one stage wasn’t it?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 29 Aug 21 21:46
his army refused to fight to keep him in place probably because of it.

they fought for 20 years

they gave up because they thought they would lose not because they preferred the taliban to karzai etc.
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