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macarony
22 Aug 21 03:11
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Mar 05
| Topic/replies: 6,516 | Blogger: macarony's blog
Blair criticism of old man Biden. This kuunt the butcher of Baghdad the man that destabilised the Middle East and wrecked Britain has the cheek to blame others. Don't get me wrong Biden is cull sucker of the highest order but Blair should be buried alive for his crimes
Pause Switch to Standard View Hypocrite and war criminal
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Report casemoney August 22, 2021 4:23 AM BST
U forget to add Sign if in agreement :

Signed .
Report casemoney August 22, 2021 4:24 AM BST
Actually I thought it said Burnt ..

But I will still sign anyway .
Report casemoney August 22, 2021 5:29 AM BST
Has called Joe an Imbecile Laugh Just bury him , burning a bit Harsh
Report Timber August 22, 2021 5:58 AM BST
Nah, Both at the same time, save money on the wood
Report sofaking August 22, 2021 6:14 AM BST
Evil and demonic creature. Signed. Crazy
Report A_T August 22, 2021 7:18 AM BST
fair enough on Blair (although there ihase never been a British PM who would not have followed Bush into Iraq) but you'd have to include Trump in this. He made a deal with the Taliban promising to pull out all US troops, releasing thousands of dangerous insurgents, relaxing sanctions on them, promising not to interfere in Afghan affairs - and all the Taliban had to agree to was not to threaten the US or it's allies.
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 7:33 AM BST
Disagree , it is a war crime to allow the Taliban into power
It is not a war crime to remove a murderous dictator
Report Timber August 22, 2021 7:33 AM BST

Aug 22, 2021 -- 1:18AM, A_T wrote:


fair enough on Blair (although there ihase never been a British PM who would not have followed Bush into Iraq) but you'd have to include Trump in this. He made a deal with the Taliban promising to pull out all US troops, releasing thousands of dangerous insurgents, relaxing sanctions on them, promising not to interfere in Afghan affairs - and all the Taliban had to agree to was not to threaten the US or it's allies.


LaughLaughLaugh

Sloppy Joe BROKE that deal, he also wrote 15 executive orders on day 1 of his regime to CANCEL Trump policies

IT's 100% on SLOPPY

SLOPPY is a mass murderer. DEAL WITH IT

Report A_T August 22, 2021 7:37 AM BST
Disagree , it is a war crime to allow the Taliban into power

yes Trump should be indicted for agreeing a deal that allowed this - but I don't believe that the US recognises the authority of the ICC
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 7:41 AM BST
Trump as far as I know wasn’t prepared to let the Taliban take over Afghanistan
Biden is , that’s a war crime
Report Timber August 22, 2021 7:41 AM BST
AT simping for sloppy tells you all you need to know about his character and IQ
Report A_T August 22, 2021 7:45 AM BST
Trump as far as I know wasn’t prepared to let the Taliban take over Afghanistan


Trump promised to leave them alone as long as they did not threaten the US - then reduced the US troops to a token presence to only 2500 - Biden has had to send in more troops just to progress the evacuation.

In June Trump was crowing about how the Afghan government would not last, that he'd made deal pulling out all the US troops and there was nothing Biden could do about it.

100% on Trump and he's lucky the US does not recognise the authority of the ICC
Report Timber August 22, 2021 7:48 AM BST
there was nothing Biden could do about it.

That's the best defence you can make.

TAKE the L FFS
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 7:48 AM BST
As I said There is nothing that indicates that Trump was prepared to allow the Taliban to take over Afghanistan
Biden has - that’s a war crime
Report Timber August 22, 2021 7:48 AM BST
Watching the hapless lefty simps try and blame Trump is adorable Love
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 7:52 AM BST
Trumps plan was that the Iraq army would stop the Taliban from seising power
There was no plan to allow the Taliban to do so
Biden has allowed that to happen - that’s a war crime
Report A_T August 22, 2021 7:52 AM BST
there was nothing Biden could do about it.


that's what Trump said in June

As I said There is nothing that indicates that Trump was prepared to allow the Taliban to take over Afghanistan

Trump made a deal with them promising to leave them alone then withdrew all but 2500 of the US troops and released thousands of dangerous Taliban - the best you can say of Trump is that it was an egregious dereliction of duty but it's more likely worse that that
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 7:58 AM BST
Any criticism that Biden makes of Trump shows that Biden is not only guilty but also a hypocrite
A trait of leftists and liberals
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 8:04 AM BST
And that’s any criticism on any subject whether it be democracy the care of children or women’s and individual rights etc - when you consider what Biden is prepared to subject the men women and children of Afghanistan to
He and the democrat administration must never again lecture anyone on these issues
Report A_T August 22, 2021 8:07 AM BST
Trump national security adviser H.R. McMaster: "Our secretary of state signed a surrender agreement with the Taliban. This collapse goes back to the capitulation agreement of 2020. The Taliban didn’t defeat us. We defeated ourselves."

and remember only in June Trump was boasting how the Afghan government wouldn't last because he'd pulled out the troops and there was nothing anyone could do about it
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 8:11 AM BST
Oh and that applies to anyone who agrees that Biden should be prepared to withdraw troops and allow the Taliban to take over Afghanistan
If you are someone like A_T no more preaching on any of these given subjects
When people like that start to preach something makes me want to laugh , and jeer
Report dpm August 22, 2021 8:18 AM BST
Lets not forget the Afghan military was 300,000 strong well trained and well equipped but they just ran, if they didn't want to fight for their freedom why should we or the US do it for them. The country and culture can only be changed by the people if it's what they want.
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 8:22 AM BST
Yes dpm I have a lot of sympathy for the point of view that says America cannot continue the responsibility alone to protect the world
They are weary of the burden and who can blame them
Report Timber August 22, 2021 8:22 AM BST

Aug 22, 2021 -- 2:18AM, dpm wrote:


Lets not forget the Afghan military was 300,000 strong well trained and well equipped but they just ran, if they didn't want to fight for their freedom why should we or the US do it for them. The country and culture can only be changed by the people if it's what they want.


Really?
They were all illiterate and useless... and most were high on opium all the time
Also thousands of ghost soldier

https://twitter.com/NEWS_MAKER/status/1427297655928115207?s=20

Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 8:26 AM BST
What are the supposedly great powers of the EU prepared to do ?
Apart from sitting on their arses like fat toads
Report detraveller August 22, 2021 9:37 AM BST
Blair just being proactive and making the first move instead of defending himself when someone drags him into the matter.
Report crystalhunt August 22, 2021 9:56 AM BST
lfc197122 Aug 21 06:52Joined: 06 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 53,164 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
Trumps plan was that the Iraq army would stop the Taliban from seising power
There was no plan to allow the Taliban to do so
Biden has allowed that to happen - that’s a war crime


'Iraq army'
Didn't know they were involved in Afghanistan - no more preaching indeedLaugh
Report politicspunter August 22, 2021 10:03 AM BST
Dearie me, what next? Laugh
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 10:26 AM BST
Grin someone’s woke CoT up
Report salmon spray August 22, 2021 10:50 AM BST
A lot of the stuff from "commentators" who look as they there were under 10 in 2001 has confused Afghanistan and Iraq. The invasion of Afghanistan was either supported or seen as inevitable by most of us in the west. Moreover it didn't have to be supported by a load of lies as the Taliban were undoubtedly harbouring much of the al-Qaeda leadership and their philosophy gave them considerable sympathy with them.
Iraq was a different matter. Saddam was quite happily shooting ( or worse ) Islamic fanatics and was himself essentially a
secularist. Somehow or other Bush and co managed to convince half the American population that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.
Blair bears considerable responsibility for Iraq but I wouldn't criticise him over the original invasion of Afghanistan. He is also clearly correct that the actual process of withdrawal from Afghanistan has been imbecilic to the point of suggesting even Trump MIGHT have handled it better.
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 11:15 AM BST
Didn’t Saddam invade Kuwait and was responsible for torturing and murdering men women and children both in Kuwait and in Iraq
He would have continued to do so and failed to abide by the strict terms set out at the end of the Kuwait war
It was a noble thing to remove this murderous dictator not a war crime
Of course there have been crimes committed by terrorists in Iraq by Iraqis and other terrorist factions Iran being the worst
Report salmon spray August 22, 2021 11:23 AM BST
Saddam was a nasty piece of work of course but he wasn't a threat to the west.
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 11:30 AM BST
That may be true, but like the Taliban he was a threat to the people he controlled , and others
Report crystalhunt August 22, 2021 11:38 AM BST
lfc197122 Aug 21 06:52Joined: 06 Nov 11 | Topic/replies: 53,164 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
Trumps plan was that the Iraq army would stop the Taliban from seising power
There was no plan to allow the Taliban to do so
Biden has allowed that to happen - that’s a war crime

Iraq army ?

Laugh
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 11:42 AM BST
^!And now we get the silly faces , from a silly person
Report A_T August 22, 2021 11:47 AM BST
the West's main worry with Saddam was his threat to Saudi Arabia and the oil - so the US sent massive forces to the Kingdom to protect it. Osama Bin Laden pleaded with the Saudi rulers not to do this (he wanted his homeland to use the Mujahideen) but he was ignored. Disgusted with the US he went off and used his considerable wealth to train terrorists in Afghanistan to attack the US.
Report lfc1971 August 22, 2021 11:50 AM BST
The west sent massive forces to Saudi because Saddam invaded Kuwait
Report Dr Crippen August 22, 2021 11:52 AM BST
You're all missing the big picture.

It's the West's policy to destabilise and disrupt the Middle East.

Just look at what we've done to the area.
Report potlis August 24, 2021 9:36 AM BST
George Galloway ripping Blair to shreds on Moates TV (RT) well worth a watch on the tube, “Gorgeous George” never disappoints.
Report Timber August 24, 2021 9:47 AM BST

Aug 22, 2021 -- 5:47AM, A_T wrote:


the West's main worry with Saddam was his threat to Saudi Arabia and the oil - so the US sent massive forces to the Kingdom to protect it. Osama Bin Laden pleaded with the Saudi rulers not to do this (he wanted his homeland to use the Mujahideen) but he was ignored. Disgusted with the US he went off and used his considerable wealth to train terrorists in Afghanistan to attack the US.


LaughLaughLaugh

Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 12:06 PM BST
You summed up the Bliar well there macarony.

No one has conquered Afghanistan since Alexander the Great although many have tried.
The lessons of history are seldom learnt.
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 12:33 PM BST
Not sure ‘bout that Foinavon. Quite a few have, borders redrawn, but nobody hung around the God forsaken place for too long.

The Russians could have held Afghanistan if they wanted to as could the Septics.
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 12:45 PM BST
"there was nothing Biden could do about it." Crazy
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 12:46 PM BST
"the West's main worry with Saddam was his threat to Saudi Arabia and the oil - so the US sent massive forces to the Kingdom to protect it. Osama Bin Laden pleaded with the Saudi rulers not to do this (he wanted his homeland to use the Mujahideen) but he was ignored. Disgusted with the US he went off and used his considerable wealth to train terrorists in Afghanistan to attack the US. "

surely Trump was involved too?
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 2:41 PM BST
Saudi is a source of fundamentalism and the 9/11 conspirators and attackers were from there but of course Bush/Bliar were not going to attack them, they needed a proxy.

I love this clip

https://twitter.com/i/status/1429962396320378884
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 2:45 PM BST
Alexander didn't live for much longer after the defeat of the Persians, Whispering. Don't know for how much longer the Macedonians we able to hold the conquered territories.
Keegan gives a good account of Alexander's exploits in "The Mask of Command".
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 2:55 PM BST
I think most conquerors think wtf?

Why bother with this inhospitable and cave dwelling mentality.

The Russians could have held Afghanistan if they wanted to and so could the yanks.
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 3:03 PM BST
The Russians and the in their turn Americans held the lowland areas where modern military means can be used but not the bandit areas, it's just not possible. In the end it all becomes too costly as "the terrorists" are supplied by one military power or another hostile to the occupier.
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 3:04 PM BST
Chinese pressure was a big reason the Soviets withdrew
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 3:05 PM BST
was a build of of forces on the soviet chinese border at the time

Gorby wanted to defuse tensions
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 3:07 PM BST
Some of these people can live in caves and the families will wait a hundred years to settle a slight! You got no chance of changing that but they were battered and beaten and skulked around in caves for a very long time. As usual the yanks had no idea what to do after a military victory and lost the peace.
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 3:09 PM BST
it is highly unlikely anyone could govern all of afghanistan, when it was a kingdom the king was referred to as the king of kabul. it has an inhospitable terrain which makes governance difficult and the pashtun have zero allegiance to a government made up of people from different areas and tribes. it wont take long for the inadequacies of the taliban to manifest themselves and then the taliban will be the ones under attack.
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 3:09 PM BST
it's was nationalism and religion really

the soviets were drilling wells, building schools etc.

the afghans didn't care

and the muslim v atheist thing was a factor too
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 3:11 PM BST
The CIA supplied the Mujahideen with modern weapons. The Americans and Chinese were opposed to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan for strategic reasons.
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 3:15 PM BST
https://twitter.com/LucasKunceMO/status/1430140681570463748

the sas are alleged to have trained some mujahideen in scotland - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1546995.stm
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 3:16 PM BST
I think the decision to pull out by the Russians was made before the SAM's were delivered.
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 3:16 PM BST
The son was trained at Sandhurst.
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 3:19 PM BST
yes first aircraft shot down by a stinger was in late 1986

In late 1985, several groups, such as Free the Eagle, began arguing the CIA was not doing enough to support the Mujahideen in the Soviet–Afghan War. Michael Pillsbury, Vincent Cannistraro, and others put enormous bureaucratic pressure on the CIA to provide the Stinger to the rebels.

The idea was controversial because up to that point, the CIA had been operating with the pretense that the United States was not involved in the war directly, for various reasons.

All weapons supplied up to that point were non-U.S. made weapons, like Type 56 rifles purchased from China,[16] and AK-47 and AKM AK derivatives purchased from Egypt.

...

Engineer Ghaffar, of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hezb-i-Islami, brought down the first Hind gunship with a Stinger on September 25, 1986 near Jalalabad.[16][17][18]

As part of Operation Cyclone, the CIA eventually supplied nearly 500 Stingers (some sources claim 1,500–2,000) to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan,[19] and 250 launchers.[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger#Soviet_War_in_Afghanistan
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 3:26 PM BST
An interesting interview with Lucas Kunce, Jolly.
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 3:50 PM BST
i was surprised it was on msnbc, not often any mainstream tv station will let someone give a different point of view on this subject / tell the truth.

the concerted efforts of all the military/intelligence experts on tv who are just shills for the deep state / military industrial complex to rubbish biden because they dont want the war to end is sadly predictable. as are the views of the ultra trumpists who were allegedly anti war but are now complaining when the war is being ended. blair's rewriting of history is also all too predictable - 'the troops will remain in place for only a strictly limited period, while an international force to work alongside Afghan military commanders is prepared' is what he told parliament  on 14 november 2001.

i was surprised that biden, a 50 year insider who has achieved virtually zero, had the balls to overrule the military and do this. i hope they get their citizens home or it will likely cost biden his presidency. sadly, selling out those who have helped an invader is standard practice as is those who take over seeking revenge on people they see as traitors.
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 4:08 PM BST
The withdrawal has been done back to front is the main criticism. It should be civilians out first then the military. Now the Taliban control all the gateways trapping those who have the most reason to leave. Biden, or his advisors, put too much trust in the Afghan army.
Report Pleasegivemeanailedontip August 24, 2021 4:16 PM BST
Theres a conflation issue too imo because the taliban moved in quick.

If the government had reached a deal with the taliban, and the US military had pulled out as per their agreement, and then a few months later the taliban took control, then the US would go back in and get the civilians. This all sounds pretty sensible. It just looks a mess becuase the withdrawal and the civilian evacuation are conflated.
Report Foinavon August 24, 2021 4:22 PM BST
There's an article in the torygraph by Dominic Green along similar lines to Lucas Kunce.
Hope you can read it as this paper uses a firewall.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/23/washington-elite-have-turned-biden-watch-harris-presidency/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1482181&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Loy_Dig_Acq_Tue_4Dto7D&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Loy_Dig_Acq_Tue_4Dto7D20210824&utm_campaign=DM1482181
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 4:24 PM BST
agreed foinavon, the execution of leaving is obviously really poor.

biden, like all presidents, has to rely on what he is told by the military/intelligence. imo, once it became apparent that there was no afghan defence forces he should have addressed the nation apologised for the intelligence failures and sacked lots of top brass.
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 4:33 PM BST
lol there weren't any intelligence failures

biden knew there was a chance of this happening

for **** sake most of us on here knew it might happen
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 4:33 PM BST
Biden is ideoligically committed to withdrawing from Afghanistan

he has been for years

he opposed the surge when Vice president
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 4:34 PM BST
can only see the headline, but it seems possible. he must have thought it through and he must have some people who agreed with him or suggested it to him. i wonder how surprised he is by how it has turned out? the french started getting their people out in may, they could see what was happening.
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 4:34 PM BST
Britain conquered Afghanistan.
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 4:37 PM BST
i found this about one of the british retreats from afghanistan lfc, 16,000 set off from kabul for jalalabad which is only 90 miles away and the legend is only one got there (not quite right as the article says but a pretty monstrous all the same)

https://www.thoughtco.com/britains-disastrous-retreat-from-kabul-1773762
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 4:39 PM BST
Elphinestone' wife got there but a few others too
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 4:39 PM BST
a pretty monstrous defeat ...
Report Whisperingdeath August 24, 2021 4:39 PM BST
The Cave Dwellers gave the British Army their biggest ever beating at the time.
Report edy August 24, 2021 4:41 PM BST
jolly, you have mail
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 4:41 PM BST
See my thread the British army crushes the uprising in Kabul 1879 js
Report Giuseppe August 24, 2021 4:41 PM BST
was it this guy?

William Brydon CB (10 October 1811 – 20 March 1873) was an assistant surgeon in the British East India Company Army during the First Anglo-Afghan War, famous for reportedly being the only member of an army of 4,500 men, plus 12,000 accompanying civilians, to reach safety in Jalalabad at the end of the long retreat from Kabul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Brydon
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 4:49 PM BST
that's him.

the article says

And while popular legend held that Dr. Brydon was the only survivor from the horrific retreat from Kabul, some British troops and their wives had been taken hostage by Afghans and were later rescued and released. A few other survivors turned up over the years as well.

One account, in a history of Afghanistan by former British diplomat Sir Martin Ewans, contends that in the 1920s two elderly women in Kabul were introduced to British diplomats. Astoundingly, they had been on the retreat as babies. Their British parents had apparently been killed, but they had been rescued and brought up by Afghan families.



thanks edy, you subversive, i will try it out.
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 4:49 PM BST
Ahmir gave the British what they wanted , including assurances that Afghanistan would not have any relations with any country but Britain
The Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the late 1870s which Britain feared never materialised
And Britain’s hold on India remained secure
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 4:56 PM BST
General Stewart in Kabul installed Abdul Rahmanm as leader
He died in 1901
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 4:58 PM BST
Britain made the decisions , quite right
Report jollyswagman August 24, 2021 5:03 PM BST
got it to work edy, thank you.

the telegraph article is along similar lines to kunce's thinking - the blob, the swamp, the military industrial complex, the deep state - use any name you want, the ghouls who sold the war 20 years ago have no shame.
Report LoyalHoncho August 24, 2021 5:06 PM BST
Does that make Biden a peace criminal?
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 5:13 PM BST
There’s no denying if you are the most powerful country in the world , and supposedly an upholder of freedom
and democracy and you run away from the Taliban - you are something shameful - much worse than an individual who runs away or passes by while someone , a man , a woman , an elderly person or a child is attacked
Report lfc1971 August 24, 2021 5:15 PM BST
I would rather die than do that .
Report Magic__Daps August 24, 2021 5:32 PM BST
Foinavon24 Aug 21 13:41
Saudi is a source of fundamentalism and the 9/11 conspirators and attackers were from there but of course Bush/Bliar were not going to attack them, they needed a proxy.

I love this clip

https://twitter.com/i/status/1429962396320378884


Superb, good old Calvin.
Report carys55 August 25, 2021 12:29 AM BST
Axis of Evil which enemy of the Muslims was really behind it all?
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