Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Magic__Daps
27 Jul 21 09:22
Joined:
Date Joined: 03 May 05
| Topic/replies: 2,644 | Blogger: Magic__Daps's blog
More than half of Covid hospitalisations are of patients who only tested positive after they were admitted, it has been reported.

Leaked data of all NHS trusts in England suggests statistics for the virus could be overstating the pressures faced by the health service.

It means many patients categorised as Covid patients may have actually been admitted with other ailments, with the virus detected through routine testing.

As of last Thursday, 44% of patients classed as being hospitalised with coronavirus has tested positive by the time they arrived at hospital, according to data seen by the Telegraph.

A further 43% tested positive within two days of admission, while 13% were diagnosed in the days and weeks that followed.

Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, has urged the Government to publish clearer data.

He called on the Department of Health to specify whether Covid was the primary reason for people being admitted so that people aren’t painted a misleading picture.

Professor Heneghan added: ‘When people hear about hospitalisations with Covid, they will assume that Covid is the likely cause, but this data shows something quite different – this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it.’

The figures from from NHS daily situation reports, collected by every hospital trust in England.

After hearing of the leak, Commons science and technology select committee chairman Greg Clark said he would write to Health Secretary Sajid Javid to ask for a regular breakdown to be shared with the public.

He added: ‘If hospitalisations from Covid are a key determinant of how concerned we should be, and how quickly restrictions should be lifted, it’s important that the data is not presented in a way that could lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn.’

One NHS data expert added: ‘People are worried and scared and not really understanding the true picture – that is what I find despicable.’

A spokesman for the health service said: ‘Many patients are admitted to hospital because of their Covid symptoms and complications, which are then confirmed with a post-admission Covid test, and for others they may initially be presymptomatic or asymptomatic.’



But it definitely isn't all about FEAR. How strange a report like this has to be "leaked".
Pause Switch to Standard View Over half of Covid "Hospital"...
Show More
Loading...
Report Dr Crippen July 27, 2021 10:38 AM BST
These are the same authorities who regarded over 75 year olds with Covid in March 2020 as bed blockers.
And transferred them from hospitals into care to spread the infection amongst the healthy.

Why should we believe anything they tell us?
Report politicspunter July 27, 2021 10:53 AM BST
‘I advise everyone to get it’: UK Covid patients tell of regrets over refusing jab

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/26/covid-patients-tell-of-regrets-over-refusing-jab-vaccine-intensive-care
.
Report Dr Crippen July 27, 2021 11:43 AM BST
The NHS is finished.

212 billions spent on it last year, and the whole operation has become a disgrace.

Not fit for purpose.

They've been conning us for decades.
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:08 PM BST
They've certainly been conning us all and neglecting a lot of sick people for the last 18 months, charlatans.
Report Johnny The Guesser July 27, 2021 12:09 PM BST
Vaccine roll out has been excellent.
Report feedthepony July 27, 2021 12:11 PM BST
Father time clearing out the problems and piling up the bodies - on top of Covid 19 - is a golden egg for the NHS
Report Jumping-cuckoo-monk July 27, 2021 12:11 PM BST
People should've clapped more. Remember that? Kin ell, head in hands
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:16 PM BST
Mass hysteria wasn't it.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:23 PM BST
Not so much nhs deciding
to slaughter folk by sending
untested patients into care homes

That was the tory party.
Report Dr Crippen July 27, 2021 12:25 PM BST
Vaccine roll out has been excellent.

Yes it has, because the doctors have turned their surgeries into vaccine centres.

And getting paid £12.58 a stab makes them very efficient.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:27 PM BST
What % have been vaxxed in doctors surgeries?
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:29 PM BST
donny, did Downing St ring the NHS and say evacuate all old uns from hospitals, or was it the reverse? I have no idea.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:31 PM BST
Well we are told Johnson is pm

and he's making decisions.

Maybe you have some alternative
reality on that too from your
crackpot viewing.
Report Dr Crippen July 27, 2021 12:32 PM BST
Troll alert!
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:33 PM BST
----you-have-to-laugh--- 27 Jul 21 11:27 
What % have been vaxxed in doctors surgeries?

.................................


I don't think the numbers are as important as the principle. It looks to me that they have been earning their usual large wage, and getting extra for doing vaccinations while refusing to see sick people for 18 months. Doesn't look good.
Report politicspunter July 27, 2021 12:33 PM BST

Jul 27, 2021 -- 6:31AM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:


Well we are told Johnson is pmand he's making decisions.Maybe you have some alternativereality on that too from yourcrackpot viewing.


Yep, I am sure he still is.

Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:34 PM BST
don't think the numbers are as important as the principle



If they don't back up the crackpot
theory,... Ignore em
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:36 PM BST
----you-have-to-laugh--- 27 Jul 21 11:31 
Well we are told Johnson is pm

.........................

I'm told all along he's following the science and most on here agreed he should. Did 'the science' urge him to empty hospital beds, and if so, should he not have followed the science in that instance? I do not know.
Report politicspunter July 27, 2021 12:37 PM BST
What does it matter where folks are vaccinated, as long as it saves lives.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:37 PM BST
He clearly follows some science and not other
science,.. Keep up
Report Magic__Daps July 27, 2021 12:38 PM BST
Politicspunter has managed to get on the wrong thread hasn't he, absolutely nothing to do with the content whatsoever.

Imagine my shock.
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:38 PM BST
You happy with GPs profiteering from covid misery donny?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:40 PM BST
Funny question saddo having shown they are not... Lol

This isn't the crackpot site

This is betfair forum
Report Magic__Daps July 27, 2021 12:43 PM BST
----you-have-to-laugh---
Date Joined: 06 Jul 10
Add contact | Send message
27 Jul 21 11:37
He clearly follows some science and not other
science,.. Keep up



I get it, he follows the Science that is correct (in your opinion), and then everything that is ends up wrong is his fault completely, and not the fault of Science (in your opinion). Vaccine rollout a big success, but then the NHS should take every bit of the credit no doubt (in your opinion).

I am sure we all "get it" where and how the Politics come into it all - from the ludicrous left.
Report saddo July 27, 2021 12:44 PM BST
You health and safety disciples are on increasingly marshy ground by the look of it donny. Your lol quota is going through the roof lately, nervous tick?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 12:45 PM BST
You keep ploughing on ignoring facts saddo

You know it makes sense

Ask the questions that impressed you
on your whack job reading
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 12:58 PM BST
usual suspects wetting their pants again over completely irrelevant data

44% of patients classed as being hospitalised with coronavirus has tested positive by the time they arrived at hospital

A further 43% tested positive within two days of admission

So 87% clearly had the virus at the time of admission.  As the prevalence in the population is massively lower than 87%, it is ridiculous to suggest that masses of unrelated admissions are being classified as covid patients.

Even Heneghan realises that the only important stat is people admitted because they had Covid symptoms (and testing postive) hence his request for more info.  If that is being overstated there is an issue, but the bare testing stats don't confirm that.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:29 PM BST
THE NHS IS ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE AngryAngryAngry
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:31 PM BST
dave if somebody was hospitalised because of covid you would expect them to test positive straight away

someone struggling so badly they can't breathe is not going to test negative
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:31 PM BST
dave, serious, one might say desperate logic failure Cry
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:31 PM BST
"So 87% clearly had the virus at the time of admission. "

no
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:33 PM BST
hospitals are riddled with covid

one kid in a coma after a car crash caught it twice during a 7 month stay
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:33 PM BST
If only they released the true figures, but that would be far too embarrassing for the NHS.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:34 PM BST
i've heard different figures in ireland

report on TV claimed it was 25% last year, who caught covid in hospital

a more recent figure i've heard is 90%
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:34 PM BST
correction 10%
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 3:39 PM BST
Cider • July 27, 2021 3:33 PM BST
If only they released the true figures, but that would be far too embarrassing for the NHS.


So no evidence that those categorised as Covid patients aren't in hospital because they have the disease?
Report saddo July 27, 2021 3:40 PM BST
Referring to anyone not sharing your over cautious views as a 'whack job' shows how far gone you are donny. Denouncement in place of discussion, way to go.
Report politicspunter July 27, 2021 3:40 PM BST
How come we never see both EU robots posting on the same thread at roughly the same time, despite the fact that between them they make hundreds of posts daily?
Report shiny new shoes please July 27, 2021 3:41 PM BST
/\ more  Giuseppe a lot more  •  regarded over 75 year olds with or without covid. as bed blockers,shipped to  care homes
Tinie Tempah - Written In The Stars ft. Eric Turner
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:43 PM BST
All we need to know is the number of people who are admitted due to being ill with covid, and therefore need treating for covid. It's about as basic as it gets. Why is it never disclosed, along with the number of people recorded as covid patients being released.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 3:46 PM BST
Referring to anyone not sharing your over cautious views as a 'whack job' shows how far gone you are donny. Denouncement in place of discussion, way to go.



You still havnt answered the original point

But continue to jibber jabber away
regardless

Whack job is category that is befitting
that approach
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 27, 2021 3:47 PM BST
Do we know what they were admitted for?

If they suffered a broken arm, came in and then found out they had Covid, well that's one thing.


But if they were brought in because they were struggling to breathe, Covid was suspected, they were tested and then subsequently proven then what's the point of the OP?

The quote above even says: "this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it.’ So, people are brought in because they are unwell to receive treatment and find out what's been causing it? Ergo, they're tested after being admitted. Presumably the same numpties who are avoiding the vaccine are avoiding being tested when they start showing symptoms. Some get over it and keep schtum, some need help. But unless it can be proved that people are in for one thing completely unrelated to Covid and are found to have it, then this is just the usual teenage forum hysteria isn't it?
Report Magic__Daps July 27, 2021 3:47 PM BST
Someone else was called a whacko in another thread earlier. He/she seems to have lost the plot in the past week going by some of the posts.
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:47 PM BST
The people testing positive after two days are those admitted for something else, and happen to test positive for covid after being screened. If 1 in 100 people in the community are testing positive for example, that's going to be a lot. It has no impact on healthcare resources whatsoever, as presumably everyone is distanced anyway.
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 3:48 PM BST
Cider • July 27, 2021 3:43 PM BST
All we need to know is the number of people who are admitted due to being ill with covid, and therefore need treating for covid. It's about as basic as it gets. Why is it never disclosed, along with the number of people recorded as covid patients being released.




I agree with that, with the reservation that the initial population includes those with covid symptoms.  But the pant-wetting telegraph article isn't about that deficiency (if it is a deficiency).
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:49 PM BST
That will of course filter into 'covid' deaths as well (that covid had no impact on).
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 3:49 PM BST
Cider • July 27, 2021 3:47 PM BST
The people testing positive after two days are those admitted for something else, and happen to test positive for covid after being screened.


That would be 13% according to the article.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:50 PM BST
"But if they were brought in because they were struggling to breathe, Covid was suspected, they were tested and then subsequently proven then what's the point of the OP?"

why would someone like that test negative on arrival, and again the next day?

if somebody only tests positive after two days something isn't right
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:51 PM BST
I don't see anything wrong with the article. The NHS as an institution is failing us badly and they need to be held accountable, not protected via deliberately misleading statistics.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 3:51 PM BST
no dave 43%
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 3:53 PM BST
^^The statistics aren't misleading
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 3:53 PM BST
Not everybody gets a covid test before
getting ill.

Why would they, some still insist
it's a hoax.

Good to see debate on the forum
is largely moved on from covid being a hoax

Maybe there is hope for forum
Report Cider July 27, 2021 3:54 PM BST
A further 43% tested positive within two days of admission

This is when they have been screened, ie people not admitted for covid.

I suppose a small proportion of them might be ill with covid, but not significant.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 3:55 PM BST
Some people get covid, and become ill
after passing infectious stage.

They may have long covid complications

Will they test positive on admission?



(I don't know answer)
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 3:56 PM BST
^^Do you know what the word "within" means?
Report Magic__Daps July 27, 2021 3:56 PM BST
But if they were brought in because they were struggling to breathe, Covid was suspected, they were tested and then subsequently proven then what's the point of the OP?


So why were only 44% tested positive of Covid on admission? Were the other 56% of hospitalisations recorded "with" Covid having breathing difficulties due to Covid, but then testing negative for a couple of days? Or didn't they get tested when they were admitted because they had no Covid symptoms and were not admitted to Hospital in the first place because of Covid.

The numbers reported by the NHS/Government is to give the perception that all of the Covid positive patients in Hospital are in there because they have Covid - which is obviously b0llocks.
Report casemoney July 27, 2021 3:57 PM BST
They may have long covid complications

How many don't have long co vid as no one really knows what Long Co-Vid is anyway
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 27, 2021 3:58 PM BST

Jul 27, 2021 -- 9:50AM, Giuseppe wrote:


"But if they were brought in because they were struggling to breathe, Covid was suspected, they were tested and then subsequently proven then what's the point of the OP?"why would someone like that test negative on arrival, and again the next day?if somebody only tests positive after two days something isn't right


Where does it say they're testing negative a couple of times prior?Confused

Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 3:58 PM BST
The 43% figure would encompass anyone admitted to hospital with covid symptoms, who had not been tested recently.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 3:59 PM BST
100% of covid patients don't test positive
before they are tested.
Report Magic__Daps July 27, 2021 4:00 PM BST
casemoney - long Covid is affecting about 10% of people who have caught Covid. I know probably a hundred people personally through friends and family who have had it, I go on another football forum and multiple cases of Covid over the last year, and I have not heard of a single person with this long Covid. Are there any, without a doubt, is it in the numbers reported, not a fecking chance.
Report Cider July 27, 2021 4:01 PM BST
The statistics aren't misleading


Of course they are. The dashboard shows the number of patients who are in hospital who have tested positive. Not the number of people who are receiving treatment for covid.

You could stop every car driving along a random road, test every occupant and some of the people them will test positive. That's akin to testing every person admitted to a hospital.

Around 55,000 people are admitted every single day in normal times.

It could be that the system shows 5000 covid patients but only 1000 are being treated for covid. We know it is over estimated, we just don't know the extent. But decisions that impact everyone are made based on this crude, misleading data.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 27, 2021 4:02 PM BST
It's just like some folk can't understand English and
Press/heneghan is click baiting them
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:02 PM BST
"Not everybody gets a covid test before getting ill."

I imagine everyone being admitted to hospitals in the UK is tested on arrival
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:03 PM BST
if someobidy is admitted to hospital because of serious covid like symptoms they should really test positive straight away
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:05 PM BST
"The 43% figure would encompass anyone admitted to hospital with covid symptoms, who had not been tested recently. "

dave they are tested on arrival

if your covid symtptoms are so severe as to merit hospitalisation, you are not going to return a negative test for two days
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:06 PM BST
covid has you coughing, spluttering, can't breathe, need hospital

you are not going to test negative
Report dave1357 July 27, 2021 4:07 PM BST
For the thickos "immediately tested" falls within the set of "tested within two days"

And for Cider, the statistics are what they are - you seem to be speculating on what their significance is.  I agree that it would be useful to know how many people were admitted without covid symptoms and subsequently were discovered to be infected, but that is simply a lack of statistics, not misleading statistics.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:08 PM BST
porcy they are tested on arrival

i think they are probbaly tested every day

if someone is admitted to hospital "because of" covid they will test postive on day one
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 27, 2021 4:08 PM BST

Jul 27, 2021 -- 9:56AM, Magic__Daps wrote:


But if they were brought in because they were struggling to breathe, Covid was suspected, they were tested and then subsequently proven then what's the point of the OP?So why were only 44% tested positive of Covid on admission? Were the other 56% of hospitalisations recorded "with" Covid having breathing difficulties due to Covid, but then testing negative for a couple of days? Or didn't they get tested when they were admitted because they had no Covid symptoms and were not admitted to Hospital in the first place because of Covid.The numbers reported by the NHS/Government is to give the perception that all of the Covid positive patients in Hospital are in there because they have Covid - which is obviously b0llocks.


44% tested positive PRIOR to admission, not on admission. You're (perhaps deliberately) misunderstanding the words. Prior will include people feeling unwell and getting tested, people needing a GP who tests them. They then deteriorate to the point they need hospital treatment.

I don't doubt people have been admitted for other things, and maybe caught it while there. We've had near 18 months of hospital disruption for fear of already ill people catching this. It's hardly an earth shattering proposal after all.

As I said though, it'd be worth knowing how many of the 100% were admitted for symptoms consistent with Covid where it was suspected.

It'd also be worth knowing how many of those admitted were anti-vaxxers, gamely ploughing on and refusing to be tested until their blood ox dropped too low and they needed help.


I'd also like to know what is meant by "within 2 days of admission". The GOOD Covid test generally takes 24-48 hours to produce results doesn't it? So does this 2 days include people tested on admission but awaiting the results?


Who wrote this pissing article anyway? Just raises more questions than it answers. Awful journalisming.

Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:12 PM BST
ok dave i can see your point now

the way the article is phrased is a bit misleading

i imagine everyone being admitted to hospital, for any reason, is tested straight away

we really need to now how many of these "in hospital with covid" patients tested positive in this first test

and how many initially tested negative, and then tested positive on days 2 and 3

the article doesn't make this clear
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:14 PM BST
porcy i imagine they do a quick test too

can't imagine them waiting so long for a result

they need to know straight away where to put people
Report Cider July 27, 2021 4:15 PM BST
And for Cider, the statistics are what they are - you seem to be speculating on what their significance is.  I agree that it would be useful to know how many people were admitted without covid symptoms and subsequently were discovered to be infected, but that is simply a lack of statistics, not misleading statistics.


It might sound arrogant but I've spent much of my working life analysing stats. Mainly using them to forecast and analysing patterns, and looking for flaws and underlying issues. Anyone who reads my stuff on here will know I've called a lot, covid related, before it has happened (along with one infamous ball drop Grin) I know that they are 'wrong' and my instinct is that they are wrong by a lot.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:15 PM BST
how many are catching covid in hospital

how many are in hospital "due to" covid

after 18 months we still don't know
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 27, 2021 4:24 PM BST
G = no offence, but you appear to be just guessing.
Report Giuseppe July 27, 2021 4:29 PM BST
guessing about what?

you think they let people mingle for two days while they wait for a result?
Report Cider July 27, 2021 7:26 PM BST
Farage picked this up tonight, had Carl Heneghan on.
Report Johnny The Guesser July 27, 2021 7:35 PM BST
Probably been covered but how often are people in hospital tested ? ..and what about the same person being included in stats for multiple days (whether positive or negative ) - is this possible ?
Report Cider July 27, 2021 7:39 PM BST
I believe you can only test positive once according to the stats. However, as Carl said you can recover from covid but still be noted as a covid patient, even if recovered (from covdi) but still in hospital for something else.
Report Johnny The Guesser July 27, 2021 7:50 PM BST
Thanks Cider , so many variables and unknowns , maybe even designed that way.
Report Cider July 27, 2021 8:14 PM BST
Like so many of the policies and procedures, put together in a rush so understandable there were flaws, but have not adapted to the hugely different circumstances. They've had over a year to get it right.
Report moisok July 27, 2021 8:36 PM BST
I reported on this many months ago that at least 35 percent were catching it after entering hospital and people were simply slapping a 'COVID'  label on all these deaths but people were entering hospital for other reasons.
Report Magic__Daps July 27, 2021 9:53 PM BST
moisok - but I expect that was another "conspiracy theory" that probably turns out to be correct. Amazing that some of these people that shout "conspiracy theory" at anyone with any questions or a differing view, actually end up being correct.
Report jollyswagman July 31, 2021 12:10 PM BST
https://twitter.com/anthonybmasters/status/1421387008061083649

it seems covid is the primary reason for admission in about 75% of cases.
Report jollyswagman August 7, 2021 12:42 PM BST
ttt

this chap reached a similar figure - https://twitter.com/alexselby1770/status/1420377479693340673
Report Tiger Tiger August 7, 2021 1:15 PM BST
People are not catching Covid after entering hospital.

People are taken to hospital when suffering badly from the symptoms of Covid without having been tested, they will ring 111 to start with when they are suffering badly and then if deemed to be suffering and in need of immediate attention they will be taken to hospital, all without having had a Covid test. Once in hospital of course, you will be tested.
Report Giuseppe August 7, 2021 1:56 PM BST
tiger report in ireland said 25% were catching it in hospital
Report Facts August 7, 2021 2:58 PM BST
Dr Crippen 27 Jul 21 10:43 
The NHS is finished.

212 billions spent on it last year, and the whole operation has become a disgrace.

Not fit for purpose.

They've been conning us for decades.



What an ignorant post
Report saddo August 7, 2021 5:18 PM BST
General practice has been virtually non existent round here for 18 months and counting. I've paid in all my life and it certainly isn't fit for purpose.
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com