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casemoney
07 Jul 21 14:51
Joined:
Date Joined: 04 Aug 06
| Topic/replies: 46,939 | Blogger: casemoney's blog
Nearly 200 Americans shot dead over Independence Day weekend Nearly 600 Shootings  , Chicago top of the List with 90 Shootings ,what a lovely place to live that must be Shocked

I wonder who was involved in all these shoot outs ?

I thought JOE was sorting all this gun business out ?
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Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:43 PM BST
that's borderline racist, please don't make me report you timber
Report politicspunter July 7, 2021 3:43 PM BST
The figures spek for themselves. How many folks in the UK get shot at the weekend and how many in the USA?
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:43 PM BST
As I just said, it's an impossible scenario to argue
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:44 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:43PM, politicspunter wrote:


The figures spek for themselves. How many folks in the UK get shot at the weekend and how many in the USA?


How many situations are defused by guns!

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:44 PM BST
edy the guns that are being used by gangs in america are held illegally
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:45 PM BST
no shortage of stabbings in london
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:45 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:44PM, Giuseppe wrote:


edy the guns that are being used by gangs in america are held illegally


exactly

99% of the guns in the UK are illegal

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:46 PM BST
"How many folks in the UK get shot at the weekend and how many in the USA?"

who are these "folks"?

they're not law abiding NRA members
Report edy July 7, 2021 3:46 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:43PM, Timber wrote:


As I just said, it's an impossible scenario to argue


It's not impossible, nor pointless if we are discussing whether guns are a net positive in regards to deadly violence. If they were, you should expect deadly violence to go down if firearms are spread throughout the UK's population.

Would you expect that to be the case?

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:46 PM BST
is it fair to say violent crime is a problem in London, despite the lack of guns?
Report edy July 7, 2021 3:47 PM BST
Sure.

Is it fair to say that it would explode with very easy access to guns?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:48 PM BST
you would need to change the law too edy

for example shooting a burglar would be viewed differently in the UK and the US
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:48 PM BST
the gang members currently stabbing each other would probably start shooting each other if they had guns, yes
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:49 PM BST
the problem is the gang
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:49 PM BST
middle class people in Vermont are not going around shooting each other
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:50 PM BST
yet this is happening in the projects in Chicago. why?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:50 PM BST
Chicago has strict gun laws by the way
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 7, 2021 3:50 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:40PM, Timber wrote:


Same with religion.Everybody goes crazy when a religious nut goes berserk and kills a load of peopleHowever, a lot of people take a great deal of comfort from religion and keep them peaceful


You realise you're comparing carrying a weapon designed to kill to going to mass?

Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:50 PM BST
After the 2nd world war, there were lots and lots of guns in the hands of civilians

CRIME WENT DOWN and nobody used them!!
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:50 PM BST
Vermont does not

interesting Confused
Report politicspunter July 7, 2021 3:50 PM BST
The USA constitution is ludicrously out of date particularly their right to bear arms. They refuse to change it so they will just continue to buy guns at the supermarket and kill each other.
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:51 PM BST
London was at it's safest after the 2nd world war and there were guns everywhere
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:51 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:50PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:


Jul  7, 2021 --  2:40PM, Timber wrote:Same with religion.Everybody goes crazy when a religious nut goes berserk and kills a load of peopleHowever, a lot of people take a great deal of comfort from religion and keep them peacefulYou realise you're comparing carrying a weapon designed to kill to going to mass?


I'm not

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:52 PM BST
a lot of the gun deaths in the US are suicides by the way
Report edy July 7, 2021 3:52 PM BST
Giuseppe, what percentage of firearm related homicides in the USA do you think are also gang related?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:52 PM BST
certainly the deaths involving legally held weapons
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:53 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:52PM, Giuseppe wrote:


certainly the deaths involving legally held weapons


Teddy is leading you into a trap

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:53 PM BST
in Chicago, a huge number
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 7, 2021 3:54 PM BST
You literally are. You said SAME with religion. You used a fairly specific comparator. You're comparing, and saying it's the same. Chalk that one up as another **** up in the timber chart.
Report edy July 7, 2021 3:54 PM BST
country-wide, GIuseppe.
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:54 PM BST
you tell me
Report Timber July 7, 2021 3:55 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:54PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:


You literally are. You said SAME with religion. You used a fairly specific comparator. You're comparing, and saying it's the same. Chalk that one up as another **** up in the timber chart.


WRONG, your comprehension is abysmal

Report edy July 7, 2021 3:56 PM BST
Ok

Estimated to be 10 to 15 percent.
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:56 PM BST
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Gun violence in the United States results in tens of thousands of deaths and injuries annually.[4]

In 2018, the most recent year for which data are available as of 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) National Center for Health Statistics reports 38,390 deaths by firearm, of which 24,432 were by suicide.[5][6]
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:56 PM BST
so 60% is suicide

10-15% gangs
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:57 PM BST
I find that 10-15% number hard to believe
Report edy July 7, 2021 3:58 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 3:56PM, Giuseppe wrote:


so 60% is suicide10-15% gangs


10-15% is of the homicides, not deaths by firearm. So in your example it would be 10 to 15 per cent of (38,390-24,432)

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 3:58 PM BST
In 2010, 358 murders were reported involving a rifle while 6,009 were reported involving a handgun; another 1,939 were reported with an unspecified type of firearm

most murders involve small handguns
Report edy July 7, 2021 3:58 PM BST
~14.000
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:01 PM BST
85-90% of gun homicides do not involve criminal gangs?

I find that hard to believe
Report edy July 7, 2021 4:01 PM BST
Yeah, because you always watch gangster movies.
Report Magic__Daps July 7, 2021 4:01 PM BST
Go and see how clueless the woman is in charge of Chicago, takes no responsibility or accountability for anything whatsoever, and just lies at every question thrown at her. It's a free for all over there. Trump offered her the National guard a year ago when it was out of control to help out and she refused it - I am afraid as sad as it is, Chicago has got exactly what it voted for, a progressive leftist who causes and aids more misery to its' citizens. She is a disgusting woman who needs to be removed instantly. Then again if you keep telling everyone that the Police are the enemy, racist etc etc what do you expect them to do? Join in their droves or say fook that?
Report PorcupineorPineapple July 7, 2021 4:02 PM BST
nah mate, you need to go back and understand what the word compare means.
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:02 PM BST
there were 90 shootings in Chicago alone over the weekend

you don't think these were gang related?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:03 PM BST
wait a second edy

you don't think gang violence is a problem in Chicago?
Report edy July 7, 2021 4:06 PM BST
I don't believe I wrote that.
Report edy July 7, 2021 4:07 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 4:02PM, Giuseppe wrote:


there were 90 shootings in Chicago alone over the weekendyou don't think these were gang related?


I do not know how many of these 90 shootings (with whatever amount of homicides) were gang related. I do know that the long-term statistics from various US government bodies put it at 10 to 15 per cent.

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:08 PM BST
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States#History

During the 1980s and early 1990s, homicide rates surged in cities across the United States (see graphs at right).[87]

Handgun homicides accounted for nearly all of the overall increase in the homicide rate, from 1985 to 1993, while homicide rates involving other weapons declined during that time frame.[40]

The rising trend in homicide rates during the 1980s and early 1990s was most pronounced among lower income and especially unemployed males. Youths and Hispanic and African American males in the U.S. were the most represented, with the injury and death rates tripling for black males aged 13 through 17 and doubling for black males aged 18 through 24.[88][78]

The rise in crack cocaine use in cities across the U.S. is often cited as a factor for increased gun violence among youths during this time period.[89][90][91]

doesn't sound like gangs to you?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:09 PM BST
young unemployed males, often black and hispanic, involved in drug selling
Report edy July 7, 2021 4:11 PM BST
We are not in the 80s and early 90s anymore, Giuseppe.
Report edy July 7, 2021 4:12 PM BST
and your graph showed a very high amount of homicides by firearm before the mentioned surge.
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:12 PM BST
young unemployed males, often black and hispanic, involved in drug selling


Why do you think that is?
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:13 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 4:12PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:


young unemployed males, often black and hispanic, involved in drug sellingWhy do you think that is?


no fathers

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:14 PM BST
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Murder_and_shootings

In 2011, 83% of murders involved a firearm, and 6.4% were the result of a stabbing.

10% of murders in 2011 were the result of an armed robbery and at least 60% were gang or gang narcotics altercations.

Over 40% of victims and 60% of offenders were between the ages of 17 and 25.

90.1% of victims were male.

75.3% of victims and 70.5% of offenders were African American, 18.9% were Hispanic (20.3% of offenders), and whites were 5.6% of victims (3.5% of offenders).[17]

Murder rates in Chicago vary greatly depending on the neighborhood in question.

Many of the predominantly African American neighborhoods on the South Side are impoverished, lack educational resources and noted for high levels of street gang activity.[19]

The neighborhoods of Englewood on the South Side, and Austin on the West side, for example, have homicide rates that are ten times higher than other parts of the city.[20]
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:14 PM BST
Everyone don't got a father Timber!
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:15 PM BST
3.5% of offenders and 5.6% of victims were white

it's young black and hispanic criminals shooting other young black and hispanic criminals in housing prjetcts / ghettoes
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:16 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 4:14PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:


Everyone don't got a father Timber!


Well worth a read, no punches from Bill

https://www.blackpast.org/african-american-history/2004-bill-cosby-pound-cake-speech/?fbclid=IwAR1qMWYADbq2zV6XHQm9Q-Xmv5ZPkqG-TPUSICpZwYd5EmYqyuG658jESQ8

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:16 PM BST
90.1% of victims were male.

that figure alone tells you a lot
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:19 PM BST
yes, no fathers is a big issue for black kids

most grow up with only the mother present

% is much higher than any other ethnicity (hispanics are second)

can be 60-75%
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:20 PM BST
"We are not in the 80s and early 90s anymore, Giuseppe."

lol what has changed since then? the black kids have stopped shooting each other?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:21 PM BST
"Englewood on the South Side, and Austin on the West side, for example, have homicide rates that are ten times higher than other parts of the city"
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:24 PM BST
I'll read that later thanks Timber.

What does Daddy Bill say about molesting women btw? is there anything in his speech about that?

I prefer Black people vs Niggas with Chris Rock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsFBy7y3G04

I don't think I have any respect for a man who drugs women to have sex with them so I am not sure I want to have anything to do with an Uncle Tom Nonce like Bill Cosby thank you very much.
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:26 PM BST
"Why do you think that is?"

racism
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:26 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 4:24PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:


I'll read that later thanks Timber.What does Daddy Bill say about molesting women btw? is there anything in his speech about that?I prefer Black people vs Niggas with Chris Rockhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsFBy7y3G04I don't think I have any respect for a man who drugs women to have sex with them so I am not sure I want to have anything to do with an Uncle Tom Nonce like Bill Cosby thank you very much.


read it objectively, much stronger than anything CHris Rock ever said

Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:27 PM BST
So if you haven't got a father living at home and you are black you are genetically programmed to murder people?
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:27 PM BST
read Bill's speech, tells you everything you need to know
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:28 PM BST
90.1% of victims were male.


So black kids without fathers shoot other black males for the reason of?
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:28 PM BST
Read the speech ffs, it tells you everything you need to know
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:29 PM BST
5 mins to read
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:29 PM BST
"So black kids without fathers shoot other black males for the reason of? "

gangs and drugs, mostly
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:30 PM BST
young unemployed males, often black and hispanic, involved in drug selling. Why do you think that is?

racism


So black and hispanic involved in drug selling is racism?

is that what you are now saying?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:30 PM BST
if it's not gang related why are so few women shot?
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:30 PM BST
death has no understanding of urban America
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:30 PM BST
i was being sarcastic
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:32 PM BST
so black kids without fathers shoot other black males


...for the reason of gangs and drugs mostly?

So it is not because they are black and without fathers it is because of gangs and drugs mostly?
Is that what you are now saying?
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:32 PM BST
if it's not gang related why are so few women shot?


So it is gang related?
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:35 PM BST

Jul 7, 2021 -- 4:32PM, Whisperingdeath wrote:


if it's not gang related why are so few women shot?So it is gang related?


No more posts for me, just opened a bottle of this fine wine
The best wine on the market for £10 or less!

https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabernet-sauvignon/diablo-black-cabernet-sauvignon/1000208077892

Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:37 PM BST
death I think you want to go down a "racism and poverty is to blame" path

I would be inclined to disagree and say cultural factors are more important
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:38 PM BST
why aren't you drinking Italian wine?
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:39 PM BST
I would be inclined to disagree and say cultural factors are more important


What cultural factors?
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:39 PM BST
there are a lot of different issues here

the discussion started off with edy saying most gun murders weren't gang related

that was why i posted the Chicago stuff

similar situation in many other cities
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:40 PM BST
this is a broad topic

let's start with the fathers

why do so many black kids grow up in single parent households?

not sure I have the answers
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 4:41 PM BST
I don't have figures at hand, but I believe London is similar, a large number of black / mixed rae kids grow up with only the mother present
Report casemoney July 7, 2021 4:44 PM BST
No Doubt JOE and Kammy will be all over this  , I would imagine grants for for folks to Install Machine Gun Turrets on their house's in the Chicago South side area will be high on the Agenda .
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:44 PM BST
Interesting you say that.

My Morrisons is currently offering two bottles of Diablo Red for £15. Have you tried the red? what is the difference/ I have not seen the black.

Red

Allow yourself to be tempted by the dark fruit, mocha and vanilla notes of Diablo Red, rated among the top 2% of all wines in the world (2017 vintage) according to Vivino.com. Diablo Red delivers a generous, smooth, dark and delicious drinking experience.

This is a pact with the extraordinary, allow yourself to be tempted and you will not regret it. This Cabernet Sauvignon has a deep character it is intense and has a strong personality... Structured and with an enticing silky character. Black wood, tobacco and a hint of vanilla.


Black

Allow yourself to be tempted by the dark fruit and oaky notes of Diablo Black Cabernet Sauvignon. Diablo Black delivers an intense, silky smooth, dark and delicious drinking experience…..wicked never tasted so good.

This is a pact with the extraordinary, allow yourself to be tempted and you will not regret it. This Cabernet Sauvignon has a deep character it is intense and has a strong personality... Structured and with an enticing silky character. Black wood, tobacco and a hint of vanilla.
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:46 PM BST
I've tried them both, the black one is the best by a distance
It's 8 squid at tesco right now with a clubcard
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:47 PM BST
Thank you for that too!

I have to try it now!

The red I think is really good value if you get it for £7.50 but I will have to try the black now!
Report casemoney July 7, 2021 4:48 PM BST
Yes ur correct G , a previous poster on Chit Chat suggested replacing the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier ,With the Tomb of the Unknown father to reflect London Life  these days .
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:49 PM BST
Once you go black you never go backLaugh
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:49 PM BST
While we are at it any other recommendations?

I like Giesen Sauvignon Blanc from £6-£7 Much better than Oyster Bay and more expensive varieties imho
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 4:51 PM BST
Yes ur correct G , a previous poster on Chit Chat suggested replacing the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier ,With the Tomb of the Unknown father to reflect London Life  these days .


Maybe if you can't supply the name of the kids father for DNA match you shouldn't be able to claim benefits!
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:51 PM BST
Anything from Marlborough is fantastic imo
Report Timber July 7, 2021 4:53 PM BST
The Chianti Reserva from Lidl is £5.99 and exceptional

On the 9th to the 11th July it's £4.50! I'll be buying the lot from my local Lidl!!

https://www.lidl.co.uk/p/wines/chianti-riserva/p15356
Report casemoney July 7, 2021 4:54 PM BST
That would not go down too well  WD starving children , plus the father may have several Children , and possibly not working himself so would not really help .
Report Whisperingdeath July 7, 2021 5:00 PM BST
Works for me case!
Report Giuseppe July 7, 2021 5:05 PM BST
I wish I could afford to pay those sort of prices
Report alun2005 July 8, 2021 2:51 PM BST
Ye Gods, 200 is an appalling number of people killed in America, during what is supposed to be a celebratory weekend.

It clearly can’t be a coincidence that so many were killed. Let us all hope that the FBI, Homeland Security, the CIA and all other interested parties can get together, carry out a root cause analysis  which profiles the crimes, profiles any convicted offenders, cross-checks the data against crimes of an identical motivation and ensures that such people can’t LEGALLY get hold of guns again.

It’s way too easy to get guns legally in the USA. Let’s hope that Joe Biden uses his ‘honeymoon period’ with the public to ensure that guns are confiscated for anyone fitting the profile of a gun-crime participant. The Progressives who voted Biden in will surely holler their support for such positive action.
Report shiny new shoes please July 8, 2021 3:21 PM BST
Giving free guns for vaccine
Seems to have backfired Confused
Report shiny new shoes please July 8, 2021 3:38 PM BST
Foster The People - Pumped Up Kicks (VEVO Presents)
Report saddo July 8, 2021 3:40 PM BST
I heard Biden laying a guilt trip on those who don't want the vax and -even worse- on young people. Disgusting.
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