......... Brexit just goes from bad to wurst......

Historically our economy has tracked the German economy on many indicators ,we both share the same ultra high energy costs and both would of course have been in economic recession.
Two factors saved us ,we have a higher % of service industries in our GDP and less manufacturing and of course we have BREXIT ,opening new markets daily.
It is hard to extrapolate the true figures when mixed in with covid and cost of living crisis and our incompetent gov's ,so some don't try and blame brexit for everything including potholes ,higher motor insurance ,bird flu and just about everything else.

Lol, strawman.

Taking the whole, and not just narrow ideas, brexit is costing us £40billion
in lost taxes, a year.

About what Reeves tried to raise yesterday.

Between 54 and 60% of farmers voted for Brexit

As an ex farmer I can see why! My main reason was not economics though. Just as most of the Catalans and the Scots hate being told what to do by people they see as foreigners, I objected to being told what to do by people who definitely were foreigners and most of whom have hated our guts for 40 years. It was a fight for independence from a Colonial power in my eyes.

It's over - done - we ain't going back any time soon - move on.

Even those still waffling on about rejoining have no idea about any terms of rejoining ?  -  Can't see the EU wanting to spend time negotiating possible rejoining terms only for the British people to then say No !  We aren't going to be offered concessions , so good bye to the pound !  ?  It isn't going to happen - save your energy.

Agreed Johnny but the pro European lobby is still very powerful. Jobs for the boys (like Mr Kinnock)

The debate isn't going away as long as we are talking about growth. You can't say you're main purpose is growing the economy and not address the single biggest boost that you could give, which would be removing the trade barriers between us and our near neighbours.

Frequent questions in parliament and another one raised on QT last night. I think the tories did a good job of consigning it to history but Labour are going to find it much more difficult to ignore.

We had (and still have) a Trade deficit with the EU. Some companies import stuff, others export stuff. The biggest winners are hauliers and bankers who provide currency exchange. And Customs and Excise. How does any of that benefit the rest of the UK?

You can't be really serious about pushing for growth, when the top guys create massive uncertainty , talk the economy down for months  and then hammer the economy with £40bn of extra taxes.

It makes no sense at all - clearly a stupid approach to "pushing for growth".

You can keep your tribalism.

The simple fact is that the government's focus is on growth. That's a fact. Talking about it and ignoring the elephant in the room will only hold so long.

The tories got away with it as they could push economic growth down the agenda. Sovereignty or some other pap was more important and that was an easy sell to the mugs who fell for the lie. But they're gone now and Labour didn't push that line so can't hide behind it.

..and Government financed growth is artificial - it's like a business owner borrowing money and buying up his own stock ..."Oooh look at my accounts - great year ! "

The government's focus can't be on growth or it would not have done what they have.  Just saying the words "growth" over and over again  means nothing.

Again, that's irrelevant.

All I'm saying is that if your stated aim is economic growth and you are loudly proclaiming that then the question of our relationship with the EU can't be ignored forever. You can cling on to whatever you like to get you through the night but that's just a simple fact.

Why do I need to cling onto anything ? - We left. You seem to be the one looking for a pillow to cuddle.

Ok. So you magically think people are just gonna stop talking about it.


Have a very good evening.

It was a vote for lunatics every business sector was against it. but the racists got their way through facebook and other social media targets.

If Brexit was a success in any shape or form it would be roared from the rooftops, instead put away into a box and mustn't be mentioned and this by the gov that said it was 'a great deal'.

Even pleas from the then brexit minister to Express readers asking for 'ideas'

Fook me, you couldn't make it up.

RR never mentioned it ....never read anything about it now ...because it's over.

Brexit was / is and always will be a great success - we are no longer controlled by the EU - everything else is just noise.

When the cost of 'red tape' comes into play from EU imports it may be a bit different, you seem a bit slow with that.

Freedom is priceless - and you're going on about the cost of "red tape'' - you just don't get it do you  ?

It's not if we rejoin it's when.

About 66% now to rejoin, and growing

This government won't, next tory government wont

But then it's all to play for, and by the brexiteers will
be gone.

The UK wasn't controlled by the EU. The UK was a very formative shaper of the EU.

And it could once more assume that role if people don't abide by speech and thought control. Just like Farage didn't just say "Ah well, we joined the EU. It's a done deal forever and ever after. Let's never talk about the issue again".

David Cameron was told where to go when he asked for "concessions"  - that was the key moment. We were no longer controlling or even shaping anything . It was time to move on.

I wonder if the EU would do anything different if they had that chance again. They thought they had us over a barrel , but they were so wrong !

Of course not everything will always go your precise preferred way in a bigger entity. That should go without saying. In addition to the hefty word in its instutions and general policy making, the UK enjoyed plenty "concessions". From rebates to currency.

Are we going to claim the Scotland is controlled by England when Scotland doesn't get its will on something?

I'm all for closer working with the EU , but we can now do that on our terms. If they want tit for tat red tape on imports / exports then fine or we can look for some other mutually beneficial way of doing things.

Lol, yeah cut our nose off, that'll show the EU, if we add red
tape to imports.

Let the Scottish people decide ...

Of course, but don't garbage the vital and important role that UK played in the EU's shaping. Don't belittle the role and importance of the UK.

Don't make the UK some abject victim.

As I said telling DC to do one was the tipping point...There were loads of benefits to being in the EU , but the price of membership just became too high.

If they add red tape to our exports , then add red tape to their exports - increase your leverage -  then suggest sitting  down round a table and work out a better way to benefit both parties.

I would what a mutually beneficial solution could be ???

Of course the EU have a grow up and remove their "Punish UK" hat first , but I think they are getting there slowly.

Johnny they have added red tape,in simple terms that means it isn't cost effective for small UK exporters to market on the continent, the UK don't want to put red tape on EU imports as it will cost the UK consumer more,Rees Mogg describes that as an act of 'self harm'

Nov 1, 2024 -- 6:20PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

Of course the EU have a grow up and remove their "Punish UK" hat first , but I think they are getting there slowly.

edy • November 1, 2024 5:13 PM GMT
Don't make the UK some abject victim.

Nov 1, 2024 -- 6:19PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

I would what a mutually beneficial solution could be ???

Back to the European Economic Area with better rules for the immigration and freedom of movement. The UK is going to have some immigration the next ten years, so do the british people prefer europeans or people from Asia and Africa?

So we have folk in uk checking eu compliance with our red tape, adding
more costs to our imports.

Great idea, lol.

Nov 1, 2024 -- 6:05PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

David Cameron was told where to go when he asked for "concessions"

Cameron was not smart enough to manage that situation. The key point was to have patience, and to build a coalition of nations against France and Germany. The UK had a strong veto power and was not using it. England would have the support of Hungary,

With hindsight, It appears that the EU didn't manage it too well either.

The EU add costs to our exports , then sure add costs to their exports , until we find a better way -  a win win solution looks pretty easy to me.

No Johnny, the EU aren't adding costs to your exports,they are looking that their own standards are adhered to and that requires certification. It is the same for every country outside Europe.

So you work out some mutually agreed standards and , bingo - it's not difficult.

Like emmmm...the Single market?

Money will always find a way to get a deal done - Is there a way we can both save money  ? - the answer is staring us in the face.

No it's not the single market , because we can say 'non' if we don't like what is proposed. Big difference.

Nov 1, 2024 -- 6:43PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

So you work out some mutually agreed standards and , bingo - it's not difficult.

We had that... it was and it's the European Economic Area.

Nov 1, 2024 -- 6:46PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:

No it's not the single market , because we can say 'non' if we don't like what is proposed. Big difference.

UK had the power to say no when was inside the EU... if many times the country accepted some rules just blame Tony Blair.

Yeah we were in a great arrangement that we set up

Then we left

Tories wanted to renage on leaving agreement too, lol

Now you want to just agree new special terms, lol, again.

We didn't - that is the whole point - DC asked for concessions and they said "do one".

Now we can pick and choose - a deal on cheese ? - Shall we get rid of certification on cheese - ? Agreed ? Easy OK done .

The deal on cheese is not dependent on being a member of some club involving a myriad of other rules  and regulation - it's a deal on cheese.

Next ?

Lol, dream on

Putin and China are building a coalition with dozens of countries geopolitically against the West. Just say goodbye the the global Britain. In a certain way european countries, Canada, USA, Australia, Japan, New Zealand or South Korea are becoming isolated and surrounded by autocracies.

20,000 small businesses have been hit in the UK by Brexit JTG, an awful shame in a lot of ways,the products probably very good but not cost effective.

the EU lads I dealt with on regs were English not based in Brussels they were in Seville, but they were lads composing the legislation for EU parliament approval, it was rubbish from Farage to suggest Brussels was telling England what to to do, in fairness he probably did not have a clue what he was talking about, btw he's 7s to be next PM, Don't laugh.

I'm sure there are the same grumbles from within the EU - maybe there is now a mutually beneficial solution on the horizon ?

Certainly China is building a presence and infrastructure in
lots of countries. As we revisit some places it's very striking
the changes that have taken place.

I'm not sure this is brexit related as much of it predates brexit
but there will come a time when China will be far more influential.

Pretty sure when EU exports hit the red tape it will focus a few minds.  "The UK have left , but Is there a better way for us to do business in certain areas ?"

What red tape can we add if they are already jumping through hoops to meet there own standards.

You are talking about scrapping import controls to spite them.

Do you ever think.

Their

There may be 20,000 businesses who have lost trade with EU. How many others have benefitted because they can replace imports by making things here? Quite a lot. We never hear anything from those who benefit from change, only from those who cry foul because they are worse off.

You can speculate that, but examples appear
far harder to find than those that have suffered.

OBR has uk economy 100billion a year lower

There must be one or 2 doing OK out of brexit,

Probably you tubers expanding out of kool aid sales
into brexit merchandise sales, and folk selling anti brexit t shirts.

Fair point overall Sageform though i disagree with 'quite a lot', gut would say 10-20%. As a bit of an aside in the food stakes will you lean more towards root crops like carrots and turnips(not snidey) and leave out more continental stuff? i think it is heading that way.

“Starmer also said the UK could have led Europe-wide operational efforts to tackle people-smuggling gangs if Brexit had not happened.

“When we were in the EU, we could lead on operations, and at the moment we can’t.””



Wow!!!

Manchester-based SkyPeople Training is to set up an operation in Dublin to provide approved training for all cabin crews in Europe. The move is due to Brexit, as UK accreditation is no longer accepted across the EU."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-66126185

..

Chairman of @marksandspencer Archie Norman @therealarchie tells  @TimesRadio that Brexit means they've had to hire a warehouse just to store the paperwork needed to export to the Republic of Ireland….

Sammy Wilson had the gall to complain about stuff from Britain not being able to get to NI during the week due to 'paperwork'with new rules coming in(GPRS?). (he was the one who said people can always go to the chipper).

This will be replicated with other EU countries and looks a further slide re exports.

Recognise this country?

It’s 24 June, 2025, and Britain is marking its annual Independence Day celebration. As the fireworks stream through the summer sky, still not quite dark, we wonder why it took us so long to leave. The years that followed the 2016 referendum didn’t just reinvigorate our economy, our democracy and our liberty. They improved relations with our neighbours.

The United Kingdom is now the region’s foremost knowledge-based economy. We lead the world in biotech, law, education, the audio-visual sector, financial services and software. New industries, from 3D printing to driverless cars, have sprung up around the country. Older industries, too, have revived as energy prices have fallen back to global levels: steel, cement, paper, plastics and ceramics producers have become competitive again.

The EU, meanwhile, continues to turn inwards, clinging to its dream of political amalgamation as the euro and migration crises worsen. Its population is ageing, its share of world GDP shrinking and its peoples protesting. “We have the most comprehensive workers’ rights in the world”, complains Jean-Claude Juncker, who has recently begun in his second term as President of the European Federation, “but we have fewer and fewer workers”.

The last thing most EU leaders wanted, once the shock had worn off, was a protracted argument with the United Kingdom which, on the day it left, became their single biggest market. Terms were agreed easily enough. Britain withdrew from the EU’s political structures and institutions, but kept its tariff-free arrangements in place. The rights of EU nationals living in the UK were confirmed, and various reciprocal deals on healthcare and the like remained. For the sake of administrative convenience, Brexit took effect formally on 1 July 2019, to coincide with the mandates of a new European Parliament and Commission.

That day marked, not a sudden departure, but the beginning of a gradual reorientation. As the leader of the Remain campaign, Lord Rose, had put it during the referendum campaign, “It’s not going to be a step change, it’s going to be a gentle process.” He was spot on.

In many areas, whether because of economies of scale or because rules were largely set at global level, the UK and the EU continued to adopt the same technical standards. But, from 2019, Britain could begin to disapply those regulations where the cost of compliance outweighed any benefits.

The EU’s Clinical Trials Directive, for example, had wiped out a great deal of medical research in Britain. Outside it, we again lead the world. Opting out of the EU’s data protection rules has turned Hoxton into the software capital of the world. Britain is no longer hampered by Brussels restrictions on sales, promotions and e-commerce.

Other EU regulations, often little known, had caused enormous damage. The REACH Directive, limiting the import of chemical products, had imposed huge costs on manufacturers. The bans on vitamin supplements and herbal remedies had closed down many health shops. London’s art market had been brutalised by EU rules on VAT and retrospective taxation. All these sectors have revived.

Financial services are booming – not only in London, but in Birmingham, Leeds and Edinburgh too. Eurocrats had never much liked the City, which they regarded as parasitical. Before Brexit, they targeted London with regulations that were not simply harmful but, in some cases, downright malicious: the Alternative Investment Fund Managers Directive, the ban on short selling, the Financial Transactions Tax, the restrictions on insurance. After Britain left, the EU’s regulations became even more heavy-handed, driving more exiles from Paris, Frankfurt and Milan. No other European city could hope to compete: their high rates of personal and corporate taxation, restrictive employment practices and lack of support services left London unchallenged.

Other cities, too, have boomed, not least Liverpool and Glasgow, which had found themselves on the wrong side of the country when the EEC’s Common External Tariff was phased in in the 1970s. In 2016, the viability of our commercial ports was threatened by the EU’s Ports Services Directive, one of many proposed rules that was being held back so as not to boost the Leave vote. Now, the UK has again become a centre for world shipping.
Shale oil and gas came on tap, almost providentially, just as the North Sea reserves were depleting, with most of the infrastructure already in place. Outside the EU, we have been able to augment this bonanza by buying cheap Chinese solar panels. In consequence, our fuel bills have tumbled, boosting productivity, increasing household incomes and stimulating the entire economy.

During the first 12 months after the vote, Britain confirmed with the various countries that have trade deals with the EU that the same deals would continue. It also used that time to agree much more liberal terms with those states which had run up against EU protectionism, including India, China and Australia. These new treaties came into effect shortly after independence. Britain, like the EFTA countries, now combines global free trade with full participation in EU markets.

Our universities are flourishing, taking the world’s brightest students and, where appropriate, charging accordingly. Their revenues, in consequence, are rising, while they continue to collaborate with research centres in Europe and around the world.

The number of student visas granted each year is decided by MPs who, now that they no longer need to worry about unlimited EU migration, can afford to take a long-term view. Parliament sets the number of work permits, the number of refugee places and the terms of family reunification. A points-based immigration system invites the world’s top talent; and the consequent sense of having had to win a place competitively means that new settlers arrive with commensurate pride and patriotism.

Unsurprisingly, several other European countries have opted to copy Britain’s deal with the EU, based as it is upon a common market rather than a common government. Some of these countries were drawn from EFTA (Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are all bringing their arrangements into line with ours). Some came from further afield (Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine). Some followed us out of the EU (Denmark, Ireland, the Netherlands).
The United Kingdom now leads a 22-state bloc that forms a free trade area with the EU, but remains outside its political structures. For their part, the EU 24 have continued to push ahead with economic, military and political amalgamation. They now have a common police force and army, a pan-European income tax and a harmonised system of social security. These developments have prompted referendums in three other EU states on whether to copy Britain.

Perhaps the greatest benefit, though, is not easy to quantify. Britain has recovered its self-belief. As we left the EU, we straightened our backs, looked about us, and realised that we were still a nation to be reckoned with: the world’s fifth economy and fourth military power, one of five members on the UN Security Council and a leading member of the G7 and the Commonwealth. We recalled, too, that we were the world’s leading exporter of soft power; that our language was the most widely studied on Earth; that we were linked by kinship and migration to every continent and archipelago. We saw that there were great opportunities across the oceans, beyond the enervated eurozone. We knew that our song had not yet been sung.

Daniel Hannan is a Conservative MEP and author of Why Vote Leave published by Head of Zeus


Like so many influential Leavers, Dan Hannan, the "brains of Brexit", was elevated to the peerage four years ago.

https://x.com/JJHTweets/status/1887054313857454320?s=19

..

The truth is that being in or out of the EU makes no difference at all to 95% of UK citizens. Only politicians and a few specialist companies need to pay any attention to the rancid place. There is one factor though that the public will rarely hear about. The EU has a huge deficit made much bigger by recent floods and wildfires. Until we left, we would have been asked to pay about 15% of the costs of those disasters and underwrite any borrowings needed to pay for them.

That is not the truth to 100% of uk citizens who unlike Farage cannot
get eu passports for their kids therefore miss out on the benefits of being an eu citizen.

We have floods etc in uk, and will bare 100% of costs, and of course have huge deficit
and debt, in part due to tory thefts over 14 years.

We've left - move on.

Yep just like the brexiteers did

We are going back in, idiots can't even find a benefit of leaving

Oh just move on, thickos

Wonderful argument - "If you don't believe what I believe then you are an idiot and a thicko "

The debate has been had and the votes have been counted.

We've left.

And we can return, simples.

I still can't find a single EU politician or bureaucrat that I would trust with £1 of my money. Spain were apparently the fastest growing economy in the EU in the last year. Why? Because they managed to get E165 billion from the EU! Our net bill for that would have been around E30 billion had we still been members. That is £500 from every UK citizen including children.

The truth is that being in or out of the EU makes no difference at all to 95% of UK citizens.

How is that the truth?

Increased food costs. Increased costs of doing business etc etc etc.

The money is paid up to and Inc 2026.

Depends what you do with it, and they are investing in infrastructure.

Of course the money we sent to eu came out of the benefits we derived as being
members of free trade and free movement club. Much of it came back to support
our poorer areas and that investment was stopped.

If Spain grows then they will become nett contributors, pretty much same cash is
going to Italy, so hopefully they will grow too,... Maybe we will
be so poor when we go back we can get handouts from eu.

never let the facts get in the way of the remoaners lament

the pandemic had a far greater impact on why the economy is where it is - huge debt

The UK’s trade patterns with the EU fail to show a Brexit effect, either since the referendum or the end of the transition period.

Trade continued to grow between 2016 and the conclusion of the Brexit transition in 2020, indicating that Brexit uncertainty did not reduce UK-EU exchange.

UK goods exports rose by 13.5 per cent to EU countries and 14.3 per cent to non-EU countries between 2019 and 2022, before and after Brexit. This indicates no impact of Brexit on goods trade.

UK services exports rose by 14.8 per cent to EU countries and 22.1 per cent to non-EU countries over the same period. Varying demand levels for different products across countries, rather than any consistent Brexit impact, explains this finding.

UK trade patterns compared to other G7 countries have not changed since Brexit.

yep

Spanish vegetables costs more because of Covid not Brexit

well indeed the huge increase in debt and interest payments that has lead to increased taxes and restricted the govts ability to use fiscal leavers has had a bigger impact on the UK economy than spanish veg prices going up a bit

Spot on re covid and debt,can't dispute that,it has left the UK in a precarious position though and without covid the spotlight as such won't be on brexit/single market so much

Just on exports (UK to EU) my belief is small and medium exporters got hammered hence a considerable loss to the exchequer (and jobs), also if the last couple of years given large inflation is measured in £'s would mask a true rate?

The abject disappointment when Biden beat Trump by the Torys couldn't be hidden as some 'solution' was factored in with Trump winning, ie 'a trade deal'imo.

We were told the sky would fall in if we left.

Chicken Licken is still walking around looking upwards with a confused look on his face.

ooooh - let's rejoin because Spanish vegetables cost a few pence more - yep - that should swing it.

Free trade deal with Amrika...woah the sun is out ..... except for the steel makers!

Farmers in England furious as Defra pauses post-Brexit payment scheme


Applications to the sustainable farming initiative no longer accepted but no clarity on what will replace it and when

Remoaners use the figures that some agricultural produce and foodstuffs exports to EU are down ,to try to prove that brexit was and is a failure.
These figures are lower because many produces are exploiting the new emerging markets available around the world.eg over 12 middle eastern countries take British lamb/mutton now.
Also more worrying trends emerge ,people are rejecting intensive farming thru morals and the high price of fertilisers ,to move to more organic type farming and the obvious lower yields ,add this to land lost to building ,rewilding ,windmills and solar panels and unhelpful wet weather ,we simply do not have the produce to export we once did.I know a rewilding project by a few rich hippies took 3500 acres of prime farming land just for weeds ,ponies and birds.
An exception to these trends is pig farming ,murdered by high feed bills and cheaper EU imports (Denmark included who even use our own sand eels to feed their pigs) ,we should subsidise our own farmers but won't ,so if you do care about British/NI farmers and food producers always buy home produced especially pork.

Correct flat

Brexit has been a huge success for our farmers!

That’s why they are so happy and can time off from their normally busy farms to Party in London.

Just as a matter of interest are you a communist? You want to give tax payer money to farmers? What is wrong with free trade and Government keeping out of business?

Brexit has been a huge success for some farmers ,eg sheep farmers but not all farmers.
Socialism has been a disaster for all farmers ,especially the inheritance tax ,compulsory purchase threat (Rayner) and the suspension of green payments SFI.
Pig farmers deserve a tax payer subsidy because the competition is heavily subsidised but has lower animal welfare standards (Denmark ,Poland and Holland) so unfair competition ,only Sweden can match UK standards but does not export to us.
As a sovereign nation we have the right to subsidise and for food independence and air miles , we should support this important industry.
Labour will not because they seek the city votes ,townies and immigrant votes ,not rural votes as we will always detest them.

Brexit has been a total disaster for UK Industry and only a thick spoons drinker would say otherwise. If you voted for it to stop free movement in EU put you're hands up and I will agree been successful, but also bad for young UK to move abroad in EU.
However, don't talk nonsense leaving EU was good for UK economy, only a racist loony would keep peddling such lies, over all day spoons breakfast and cheap drink.

No all day breakfast at spoons. All day brunch (from 11.30) and
a pint of Shipyard about £6.30, astonishing.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/uk/the-price-of-brexit-how-much-is-leaving-the-eu-costing-uk-businesses/articleshow/119370348.cms

..

Good work by the populists

Economic and democratic freedom is priceless.

A man with a full belly can talk of democracy

Economic freedom……. Fecal matter in American chicken, Digital Tax under reconsideration. That type of Economic freedom and Sovereignty?