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saddo
04 Mar 21 17:34
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Date Joined: 04 Dec 05
| Topic/replies: 42,042 | Blogger: saddo's blog
It is certainly wrong, a lot of em getting a rise for doing less work for a year, at the expense of those who have done a lot. A bonus for those at the sharp end would have been fairer.
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Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 10:36 AM GMT
I don’t think managers are philanthropists , I think they’re greedy and grasping  ---  and don't forget, usually a little bit cleverer than those wearing overalls.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 10:38 AM GMT
There's no perfect way to calculate inflation as it differs for everybody. It's a fact that formally, inflation in the UK is less than 1%. It's also a fact that living costs have gone down for NHS staff. The majority of them have been working from home (if they have been working at all).
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 10:40 AM GMT
Anyone with even a single remaining brain cell understands that a 1% pay increase at a time when inflation is running much higher than 1%. However that is a high bar for brainwashed Tory supporters to reach.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 10:43 AM GMT
If inflation was higher that 1% then it would be an effective cut in real terms (ignoring the fact that the income tax thresholds are increasing. Please provide your evidence that inflation is much higher than 1%....
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 10:46 AM GMT
how do they work out inflation ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 10:47 AM GMT
A selected 'basket' of the most common expenses.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 10:50 AM GMT
and are they all the same price ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 10:51 AM GMT
.https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/bulletins/consumerp...
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 10:51 AM GMT
or are they all going up ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 10:51 AM GMT
The Consumer Prices Index including owner occupiers’ housing costs (CPIH) rose 0.9% in the 12 months to January 2021, up from 0.8% to December 2020.

The largest contribution to the CPIH 12-month inflation rate came from recreation and culture (0.35 percentage points).

Furniture and household goods, restaurants and hotels, food, and transport had the largest upward contributions to the change in the January 2021 12-month rate, while falling clothing and footwear prices had a downward effect.

On a monthly basis, the CPIH fell by 0.1% in January 2021, following a 0.2% rise in December 2020.

As a result of increased restrictions caused by the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic in January 2021, the number of CPIH items identified as unavailable was 69, accounting for 8.3% of the basket by weight; this number rose from 9 in December 2020 but was lower than the 72 items that were unavailable during the last lockdown in November 2020; for the January 2021 price collection (which took place on or around 12 January 2021), we collected a weighted total of 88.2% of comparable coverage collected before the first lockdown (excluding unavailable items).

The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) rose 0.7% in the 12 months to January 2021, up from 0.6% to December 2020; on a monthly basis, CPI fell by 0.2% in January 2021, following a 0.3% rise in December 2020.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) has released a public statement on the coronavirus (COVID-19) and the production of statistics; Section 8: Measuring the data describes the situation in relation to consumer price statistics.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 10:56 AM GMT
list the things they check on ?
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:04 AM GMT
Exactly. Everyone knows that the Tory punishment of the poor nurses, many many of whom worked extra unpaid hours during the pandemic, is just a nasty toxic arrack on the Covid heroes.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:04 AM GMT
.https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/datasets/consumerpr...
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:09 AM GMT
Go on Cider. You carry on defending the Tory priorities.

Tax cuts for the stinking rich.
PPE contracts for Handcock’s barman.
Dump all over the nurses.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:14 AM GMT
I'm correcting your less than fact based narrative. A 1% pay rise is not a pay cut. You're entitled to hold the view that people (in some cases doing their job, others not) are entitled to special pay rises. It differs from mine.
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:18 AM GMT
You do appear to support Johnson dumping on the nurses who saved his life.
At least you are honest about your views. Johnson’s will tell us that it was really a 20% pay rise, and that he has saved the fishermen’s jobs too.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:20 AM GMT
just list some of the things they use to work out inflation ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:24 AM GMT
If I became a nurse I would expect at some point in my career to be treating very ill people, that might also be infectious. If I became a till operator for a supermarket, I might expect to be serving people who aren't infectious.

I said this back in March I think. No one job is morally superior to another. People take career paths as that's what they want to do. Grenfel was awful for the firemen who attended on the night, but when they entered the profession they knew that they might need to help in a dreadful emergency. Nobody argued for special pay increases for anyone employed by the fire service as some of them had an unprecedented emergency to deal with. Nor did they expect it.
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:27 AM GMT
As I said cider at least you are honest about your views to support the evils attack by Johnson on the nurses.
It’s a real pity that Johnson is not even a hundredth as honest.
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:28 AM GMT
I mean Johnson has a brain. But he is essentially lazy and he just tells so many lies. Ever likely he got on with Trump.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:31 AM GMT
they would have argued for the fire service if ever tower block in the country had gone up at the same time
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:33 AM GMT
There's a whole heap of stuff that this government is doing that I disagree strongly with. Just because you vote for a party or person doesn't mean you have to agree with everything they do. On balance, you'd want a Johnson government over a Corbyn one every day of the week.

There IS an argument for those who put in overtime caring for very sick covid patients for long periods of time to be acknowledged. Just not the whole of the NHS, which has performed extraordinarily badly over this crisis in my view. I'm not sure the majority would want a cash bonus though.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:34 AM GMT
and then you had a government pretty much slate the fire service  afterwards and the ones who put the cladding on are still evading justice
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:36 AM GMT
Yes I remember that.
It would not be a big shock if the cladding companies had been donating money to the Conservative Party would it?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:36 AM GMT
What percentage of the 1.5 million or so have been caring for very ill covid patients iyo, GAZO? 

You don't seem to realise that most of the NHS shut down and went home for the majority of the last year.
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:39 AM GMT
From the Times

Property developers responsible for flats covered in dangerous cladding have donated £2.5 million to the Conservative Party since the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017, analysis has found.

Boris Johnson has personally received £50,000 from individuals with links to the cladding debacle.


Well,not such a shock as I said although I have to say that even I was a bit surprised that the cladding companies had indeed been giving bungs to the Conservative Party.

This like so many things this truly terrible government has done goes beyond incompetence and well on into evil.

Truly unbelievable evil. Or was till Johnson lied his way into power.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:39 AM GMT
majority went home and did nothing ?
Report cryoftruth March 7, 2021 11:43 AM GMT
Of course not. Almost half the voters in Scotland regularly vote for freedom, and about 80% vote for freedom at least from evil Tory rule.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:43 AM GMT
Yes. If you're a hip surgeon and his surgeries were cancelled, what do you think they did instead?
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:44 AM GMT
the majority ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:44 AM GMT
Not for the whole year but a big part of it. What is your estimate?
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:47 AM GMT
no idea but i do know that staff were moved to other positions but i suspect you class them as not doing their job,so the hip surgeon could be doing some other work
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:50 AM GMT
lol you have no idea what the NHS is like seemingly. They are the opposite of agile.

I believe something like 66% of the massive workforce is not regularly patient facing.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:50 AM GMT
i also know that district nurses were transferred to wards and management were helping out in going to see patients in the community
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:53 AM GMT
should have put some management,only the ones clinically trained
Report Cider March 7, 2021 11:54 AM GMT
If you think those looking after seriously ill covid patients for extended periods should get financial recognition, that is a stronger argument than arguing everyone employed by the NHS should get an inflation busting pay rise because a minority of their colleagues worked harder than usual.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 11:58 AM GMT
some of those should get more than financial recognition but after seeing hancock trying to praise his team i suspect they will be the ones getting to meet the queen,not the ones who should
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:00 PM GMT
That's what you're arguing for isn't it? You think the entire NHS workforce should get an inflation busting pay rise? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:04 PM GMT
all or nothing,its a team
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:07 PM GMT
Which goes back to my firemen analogy. All NHS workers are very well remunerated, especially when the lucrative pension is considered. None of them are compelled to do the job.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:08 PM GMT
glad you mentioned pensionsLaugh
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:11 PM GMT
so i take it your pension is crap
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:11 PM GMT
It's a massive factor when it comes to working in the NHS. It's not just about basic salary. It means the effective salary is in the region of 30% higher than the private sector.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:14 PM GMT
which pension ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:15 PM GMT
Not sure what you mean. NHS is a defined benefit with optional early retirement.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:19 PM GMT
do you think that should change ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:24 PM GMT
It will become more and more unaffordable. We've already screwed over the next generations with the covid response, there will be fewer working people to support these index linked, highly lucrative state funded pensions. And people have an appetite to widen the state even further.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:32 PM GMT
the covid response is a bit misleading as we had already screwed the next generation before covid
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:34 PM GMT
so you would like to see the pension changed ?
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:35 PM GMT
Not just money, education, life experience etc. This will impact every child of school age for the rest of their life. Now we're telling them, after screwing them over. all of their sacrifice, they have to have regular tests, and if they are lucky enough to get a negative, wear a face mask all day. It's outrageous.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:38 PM GMT
that will bother parents,not kids
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:40 PM GMT
What happens in your childhood frames your life.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 12:41 PM GMT
They'll forever be the covid generation.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 12:49 PM GMT
true they wont forget covid but having a test a day wont bother them,they will make sure their parents dont forget and they will customize masks and get on with it,sadly some will have suffered with their education more than others and hopefully they can catch up,think teachers have got to be really honest with parents if they think certain children have suffered more and look at ways to help them catch up
Report mafeking March 7, 2021 2:11 PM GMT
some of them will have been taught from an early age to avoid contact with other humans at all costs. you can't just unteach that. millions will mentally scared for life
Report Cider March 7, 2021 2:39 PM GMT
You can just get made up exam results. This is irreversible, what Boris wants. What do you do next year? Those kids have had their education ruined too. Exam standards have been repeatedly lowered as it is.

There are so many negatives this will have indoctrinated into our culture. Kids are already brainwashed with the climate crisis nonsense, before covid.
Report Cider March 7, 2021 2:41 PM GMT
Vast numbers of people will literally expect the state to do everything for them.
Report Racingqueen March 7, 2021 2:47 PM GMT
Average nurses in NHS are glorified tea ladies masquerading as Florence Nightingale.

Moronic public guzzle it down cos its "bad form" to criticise any health worker.

Vast swathes of the NHS are incompetent and added to the spread of Covid within healthcare settings
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:02 PM GMT
You may be right RQ, but they will still be getting inflation busting pay rises. As you say public are now hook line and sinker in debt to the NHS and will have to pay for it.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:07 PM GMT
dont forget the massive pensionWink
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:10 PM GMT
Pension was reformed a few years ago and nowhere near as good as it was. It is now no longer a final salary based pension as it was but an average salary pension which is significantly less for most. You are better off managing it yourself if you know what you are doing (obviously that involves risk). Many have opted out over the last few years.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:14 PM GMT
very true but people dont see that
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:19 PM GMT
I know Gazo. And people don't realise the calibre of management in the NHS. Most have masters degree's and/or a huge amount of clinical experience. They were shafted a little bit a couple of years ago with the review and they won't be getting shafted this time. There quite a reorganisation going on at the minute and for the government to get it through management will need to be treated well. Especially with the public support they have at the minute. Good luck with the 1% Boris, you have no chance.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:23 PM GMT
the older nhs staff who didnt opt out so didnt get shafted will have a great pension and deserve it because they did get crap wages when they started
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:29 PM GMT
No it stopped for everyone Gazo. Those that had the pension before only the benefits to that date. They will be a little better off (it will depend on how much time they had in) but most are not. You are right about the wages over the last ten years or so. It was corrected to a certain amount in 2019 but the band structure was changed and it effected a lot of managers. There is quite an appetite in the NHS at the minute to screw the government hard. I wouldn't be surprised to see action in the summer. Don't forget many in the NHS will have partners that have been effected negatively by the recent economic problems and will be struggling financially.
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 3:34 PM GMT
This get this right , management is a semi skilled job
and should be paid accordingly
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 3:35 PM GMT
* let us
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:36 PM GMT
i am sure there are 3 different pension schemes depending on when you joined but i would tell anybody in any job get as much as you can because nobody will look out for you,people are happier seeing people dragged down than them getting pushed up
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:37 PM GMT
Maybe IFC, but they are paid a lot more than those in overalls and always will be. They have better working conditions, more benefits and live in better houses. I suggest you send your kids to a semi skilled management college. They will do quite well.
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:37 PM GMT
I agree Gazo
Report Mexico March 7, 2021 3:38 PM GMT
The new NHS pension isn’t as generous as old scheme but far better than those working in private sector will get.


https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/company-pensions/public-sector-pensions-explained/nhs-pension-schemes-explained-azydt0q5t434

The employer’s contribution rate changed from 14.38% to 20.68% on 1 April 2019, which includes a scheme administration charge of 0.08%.


The vast majority of nurses will pay 9.3% & the NHS will pay over 20%. Although any risk of stock market is taken out of the equation as pension is based on salary.
Private sector workers will be lucky if company pays 6% , the stakeholder pension requires a 3% contribution.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:40 PM GMT
there you go,drag em down
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 3:40 PM GMT
You see that again is part of the problem , cut their wages
If they leave they are easily replaced , empty suits
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 3:41 PM GMT
The new NHS pension isn’t as generous as old scheme but far better than those working in private sector will get.  ---  It may be better but not far better. Its not the point anyway. Most in the NHS feel it should be as it was and have no qualms about fighting for a pay rise over the next year or so. That was point really.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:42 PM GMT
management is a semi skilled job,another one to drag them down to his level
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 3:44 PM GMT
I don’t mind paying nurses for doing a very difficult and valuable job
I don’t want to overpay  for someone sitting in an office doing a semi skilled job , sorry
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 3:50 PM GMT
so you never had any ambition to be the manager
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 3:53 PM GMT
It’s not my cup of tea gazo , I was a specialist I fixed problems ( that’s difficult) I didn’t cause them
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 4:43 PM GMT
I don’t mind paying nurses for doing a very difficult and valuable job
I don’t want to overpay  for someone sitting in an office doing a semi skilled job , sorry
---  All those fixit specialists need someone to manage them otherwise they end up fixing things that don't need fixing.
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 5:01 PM GMT
Look at it this way truehoncho, does a doctor , an engineer , an electrician , a surgeon , a plumber ,a dentist .. aspire to be a manager ?
No , not really .  Those are skilled jobs
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 5:02 PM GMT
Advice is cheap
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:05 PM GMT
Look at it this way truehoncho, does a doctor , an engineer , an electrician , a surgeon , a plumber ,a dentist .. aspire to be a manager ?
No , not really .  Those are skilled jobs
---  You may be right IFC, but there is always someone managing them earning a nice living. Especially in the NHS, those nurses don't organise their own shifts you know!!
Report lfc1971 March 7, 2021 5:09 PM GMT
I know there are , it’s a semi skilled job pay them less
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:13 PM GMT
I know there are , it’s a semi skilled job pay them less  --  I think that's what the government are trying to do with their 1% offer, it wont work. Watch and see, 10% minimum.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 5:32 PM GMT
its always pay them less,drag everybody down,if they get 10% fair play to them ,if they get a golden pension then fair play to them,thats what others should look at trying to get not drag everybody down,its the green eyed monster
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:35 PM GMT
There is a lot of that in this world Gazo. It's the politics of envy. The reality is that the grass is never as green as people think. Unfortunately governments know how to play the game very well and use divide and conquer as a political tool far too much.
Report Steve Voltage March 7, 2021 5:36 PM GMT
Worse thing about the NHS is the staff everyone knows that.
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 5:37 PM GMT
whats the best ?
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:37 PM GMT
Worse thing about the NHS is the staff everyone knows that.  ---  Well they should pay more and get better staff. I'm all for that.
Report Steve Voltage March 7, 2021 5:38 PM GMT
Staff are lazy that’s a fact.
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:41 PM GMT
Staff are lazy that’s a fact.  --  Get in better managers to ensure they work harder. Pay the managers decent wages. Problem solved!!
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 5:41 PM GMT
got a feeling he is going to say the managers are worse
Report Steve Voltage March 7, 2021 5:42 PM GMT
Managers are well paid they are just not motivated.
Report Steve Voltage March 7, 2021 5:42 PM GMT
Managers are well paid they are just not motivated.
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:42 PM GMT
got a feeling he is going to say the managers are worse Laugh---
Report Steve Voltage March 7, 2021 5:43 PM GMT
Fat lazy women is the curse of the nhs. Controversial but true.
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:43 PM GMT
Managers are well paid they are just not motivated.  ---  Pay them more and get their senior managers to performance rate their pay.
Report truehoncho March 7, 2021 5:44 PM GMT
Fat lazy women is the curse of the nhs. Controversial but true. ---  Do you mean obese patients?
Report GAZO March 7, 2021 5:45 PM GMT
if its true its not controversial
Report Racingqueen March 7, 2021 7:39 PM GMT
most overpaid sector going today is HR
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