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cryoftruth
01 Jan 21 08:41
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Date Joined: 22 Mar 04
| Topic/replies: 7,491 | Blogger: cryoftruth's blog
On the night of 18th September 2014, I was literally jumping for joy seeing the results come in. For months I, along with everyone else in the room, had campaigned passionately for Scotland to stay part of the UK. I felt that Scotland had collectively made the right decision. Since then, I have changed my mind.

Far from it taking months to begin, the doubts first appeared at about 7am the following morning when Mr Cameron went straight for the jugular by announcing his plans for “English votes for English laws”. This didn’t feel like the partnership of equals we had just been celebrating, surely it wasn’t a sign of things to come?

Of course, it was. We were all told (some of you were told by well-meaning people like myself) that our only way to guarantee EU membership was to vote No. It took less than two years for that promise to be broken. Far from a partnership of equals, we were now facing the very real prospect of being dragged, kicking and screaming, from the EU against our will. That prospect has recently become a reality.

I voted to remain but I understand why a lot of people didn’t. People voted to leave the EU for many different reasons and it’s not my place to tell someone in Hampshire that they should agree with me. It’s clear that the majority of English voters wanted to leave the EU and, as sad as I find that, their wishes must be respected. However, every single constituency in Scotland voted to remain, 62% of the eligible population. Yet, because we’re in this “partnership of equals” our voices are effectively lost. That doesn’t sit right with me.

I’m using Brexit as a vehicle to express my point here, it’s not the only reason I’ve changed my mind from No to Yes but it perhaps best highlights the enormous gulf between the two countries’ needs and wishes. Another thing we were told during the 2014 campaign was that Boris Johnson would not become prime minister, that it was a scare tactic being employed by the Yes campaign. Yet here we are. Scotland hasn’t voted Tory for 60 odd years but we now face the daunting thought of seemingly endless Tory rule from south of the border. I think Scotland deserves better.

Power is wielded most effectively when it’s placed in the hands of those that will be affected (positively or negatively) by the decisions being made. The last 5 years has shown me the apathy that the majority of Westminster has for Scotland. It’s shown me that the needs of Scotland are different from that of the rest of the UK, a point that can no longer be reasonably argued against. It’s shown me, through the polls, that the tide is turning and people like myself have changed their mind.

My plea to people who were Yes in 2014 is to reach out to those people like me. People who are reasonably minded and open to looking at the facts with a fresh pair of eyes. Without us, you cannot win – the numbers don’t add up. We need to come together, through conversation, and find common ground. It can be done, but you need to extend a welcoming hand first.
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Report lfc1971 January 1, 2021 11:00 AM GMT
Of course you can vote to leave the U.K. . As long as you have the courage of your convictions like the Brexiteers
And freedom of movement for Scotland to the rest of the U.K. stops
Report Timber January 1, 2021 11:03 AM GMT

Jan 1, 2021 -- 5:00AM, lfc1971 wrote:


Of course you can vote to leave the U.K. . As long as you have the courage of your convictions like the Brexiteers And freedom of movement for Scotland to the rest of the U.K. stops


And a currencyLaugh

Report TheBetterBettor January 1, 2021 1:08 PM GMT
Boris says 'No'


Try again in another 20 years....
Report alun2005 January 1, 2021 1:23 PM GMT
The opening post on this thread is a copy and paste from

.
https://www.yes.scot/why-i-changed-from-campaigning-for-better-together-to-backing-yes/

It’s not clear to me as yet whether the author of that article is an Oxford Don.
Report Timber January 1, 2021 1:44 PM GMT
The crier has gone again. See you in 3 years Oxford DonLaugh
Report layingisthewayforward January 1, 2021 2:15 PM GMT
Was the OP claiming this as his own iyo?
Report alun2005 January 1, 2021 2:19 PM GMT
No idea. The piece went unquoted.
Report boxingthefox January 1, 2021 2:29 PM GMT
Can we have a vote on whether the OP et al should stay whinging ad nauseam. I vote LEAVE NOW!.
HTH Plain
Report Johnny The Guesser January 1, 2021 2:49 PM GMT
No currency or UK banking system for finance security . Trading deficits - how do you finance those .. Higher taxes , austerity , privatisations Laugh ? - (Welcome to the real world ). No freedom of movement. English public sector jobs gone. Border problems.
Good luck with that.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 2:56 PM GMT
As Scotland wouldn't be part of the UK....
Report sofiakenny January 1, 2021 2:57 PM GMT
Crikey Johnny..why England wants to keep these scrounging useless Jocks is beyond belief.
Report boxingthefox January 1, 2021 3:06 PM GMT
Wink. Spain who has festering Separatists problems have clearly stated all along that such a move would be vetoed so as to discourage the Catalan and Basque Separatists. There are plenty who would disagree with this, I would love to see it tested. Goodbye kenny it's not been nice, on your way.
Report sofiakenny January 1, 2021 3:13 PM GMT
foxy I thought you were Irish??
Report TheGoldenVision January 1, 2021 3:15 PM GMT
One cast iron way wee jimmy will get the majority she craves for Scottish Independence is for her to demand that all English people get to vote as well. It'll be a landslide.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 3:18 PM GMT
One bookie has year of next independence referendum at evens, 2025 or later. Hard to say if that is value in a rapidly changing situation.
Report boxingthefox January 1, 2021 3:20 PM GMT
Happy New Year Kenny. let's leave it at that. I have no wish to discuss it any further I have said my piece, any incoming may give me/us a laugh or not. Really not bothered. Be lucky everyday life is hard enough without discussing this phish endlessly. Love
Report dave1357 January 1, 2021 3:41 PM GMT
Johnny The Guesser • January 1, 2021 2:49 PM GMT
No currency or UK banking system for finance security . Trading deficits - how do you finance those .. Higher taxes , austerity , privatisations Laugh ? - (Welcome to the real world ). No freedom of movement. English public sector jobs gone. Border problems.
Good luck with that.


The vast majority of this post seems to be about brexit.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 3:43 PM GMT
Maybe Johnny thinks it is a Brexit thread?
Report lfc1971 January 1, 2021 3:50 PM GMT
England produces the jobs for the EU, England produces the jobs for Scotland

If Scotland want independence fine , Stop freedom of movement and the automatic right ad U.K. citizens
to live and work in England
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 3:52 PM GMT
Don't respond to the forum troll who is trying to spoil this thread for everyone as usualSad
Report lfc1971 January 1, 2021 3:57 PM GMT
Then of course Scotland is free to leave the U.K.
any time it wishes
Report Johnny The Guesser January 1, 2021 4:08 PM GMT
No idea what you are on about Dave ?

Just pointing out a few of the many problems that Scotland will have a face up to if their 'dream' becomes reality. However, if they want their independence then let them go for it. That's democracy.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 4:14 PM GMT
But Johnny, it's all Brexit related stuff you have posted?
Report Johnny The Guesser January 1, 2021 4:31 PM GMT
Just for starters :-
How does Scotland run an independent country without its own currency and banking system ?
How ,(and at what interest rates), does Scotland borrow money to finance deficits / investment etc?

Nothing to do with Brexit at all - If Scotland can't use Sterling and no longer has the support of the Bank of England then the project is doomed from the start.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 4:34 PM GMT
The Bank of England was actually founded by a Scot. There are plenty of banking organisations in Scotland, the Scottish Pound would seem like a likely contender for starters with the Euro a longer term possible.
Report Johnny The Guesser January 1, 2021 5:00 PM GMT
A Scottish Pound pegged to the English Pound ? ..with Westminster pulling all the fiscal strings (with little interest at all in the effects on Scotland)  - that's dependence not independence. Hardly becoming an economic power.

Scotland will  need more than banking organisations - It will need real fiscal reserves to provide security to bond markets to finance current trading deficits and in addition public spending - reserves it just doesn't have and on current numbers has no chance of generating in the future.
Hence higher taxes , or lower public spending required to balance the books.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 5:02 PM GMT
I think you are just guessing now Johnny? Grin
Report Johnny The Guesser January 1, 2021 5:12 PM GMT
My opinion only PP - Independence as a 'chest thumping' concept is great - easy to sell. The reality may be different.
We live in a democracy , the people should decide.
Report politicspunter January 1, 2021 5:12 PM GMT
They certainly should.
Report Just Checking January 1, 2021 5:24 PM GMT
"Hence higher taxes , or lower public spending required to balance the books." Correct.
He's not guessing, mr "not an SNP supporter SNP supporter". The best (lol) "brain" the SNP could come up with (Andrew Wilson) to try and produce an OPTIMISTIC projection for how a Scottish economy would work forecast decades of austerity then, after that, hopefully being normal again. That was their "optimistic" sell, by the SNP. And as to going back to where it even started, econimically? No certainty, just a hope. IT's quite obvious that an economy that PRE covid had the worst per capita deficit in the western world, that then needed the startup costs of a new country, to cover the capital and economic flight, and to cover the reserve cost of any sort of new currency, run by idiotic socialists, would be utterly f*cked. That's not guessing, that's basic maths.
Report TheBetterBettor January 4, 2021 4:04 PM GMT
Boris said on Marr. Scotland should wait till 2055 for another vote...The same time difference between the first European vote of 1975 and the EU referendum back in 2016
Report the old nanny ;-) January 4, 2021 4:22 PM GMT
Shame ur not Indie now , Would Lockdown Lucy be so intent on her shutdowns then ?
Report sofiakenny January 4, 2021 4:29 PM GMT
yes.
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