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lfc1971
30 Dec 20 10:32
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Date Joined: 06 Nov 11
| Topic/replies: 55,370 | Blogger: lfc1971's blog
Wonderful news , well done Britain and thankyou to all who worked and took part in trials
UK has ordered enough to vaccinate 50 million people. Hopefully this is the game changer.
Spring is almost here
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Report lapsy pa December 30, 2020 10:52 PM GMT
Riding opportunities severly curtailed, a brexit low, how could they do it?
Report DenzilPenberthy December 30, 2020 10:55 PM GMT
Depends on the political will. If they quietly stop testing then no one will notice 200-300 people carry on dying a day 'with' covid. If they keep testing going  they will want everyone jabbed every year to transfer more tax payers' money to the big corporations and billionaires.

I'm surprised more haven't noticed this being a prosperous period for the world's big billionaires and will continue in the way you say imo.
Report Cider December 30, 2020 11:00 PM GMT
I genuinely don't see it like that frog. The deployment is too early to be cynical. I feel the gvnt backed a vaccine and had to find ways to limp along to when it was approved. Luck or judgement, they've got there. It's very arguable the Pfizer vaccine is too impractical to make a significant difference, AZ however, will.
Report frog1000 December 30, 2020 11:08 PM GMT
Lets hope so. The MHRA say they are publishing a report on how they came to their conclusions. Once that is out people will know more.
Report akabula December 30, 2020 11:12 PM GMT
Frog will you take the jab when offered?
Report dukeofpuke December 30, 2020 11:32 PM GMT
Apparently the Pfizer vaccine eventually will be available in tablet form

When taking the vaccine you've got to ask these questions

1.Is it safe and do you believe the govt,the experts,WHO
2.Do i need it,am i healthy,am i immune
3.Have i already had the virus

If you blindly take the vaccine then you are part of what 'they' want

Also if 'they' are going to give the vaccine 1st without this,then be very concerned

1.Having a test to see if you have coronavirus,asympotamic or not
2.Have you a natural immunity - this is very important
3.You previously had coronavirus or covid 19 and recovered
Report edy December 30, 2020 11:55 PM GMT

Dec 30, 2020 -- 4:15PM, tobermory wrote:


Edy, the article I got the info fromhttps://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-planning-disaster-german... images of hope: Nurses getting vaccinated. Pallets of packaged vaccines distributed on special flights. Mayors exulting over "the beginning of the end of the pandemic.” A president who is preparing the country for better times.These images are from the United States. In Germany, on the other hand, you see desolate shopping streets, shuttered restaurants and a government that is preparing its population for long, dark days.The contrast is unmistakable. On the one hand, there is the supposedly incompetent Trump administration, which will provide vaccines to 20 million Americans in the next two to three weeks alone. By the end of March, the plan is for around 100 million Americans to have received the two vaccine injections they need.On the other hand, there is the supposedly well-prepared Europeans, who continue to have to wait for a vaccine that was developed in Germany. And who still don’t know exactly how much of the vaccine they will be getting in the coming months.""Why were only 300 million doses of a vaccine secured that had already demonstrated 95 percent efficacy in clinical trials at the time? One that had been hailed as a sensation and was already on its way to regulatory approval? German Health Minister Spahn pushed for more to be purchased, but he failed to prevail in the end due to opposition from several EU member countries -- in part, apparently, because the EU had ordered only 300 million doses from the French company Sanofi. "That’s why buying more from a German company wasn't in the cards,” says one insider familiar with the negotiations. The European Commission has denied that version of events, saying it isn’t true that Paris took massive steps to protect Sanofi."


Ok, thanks. I'm still sceptical it was exactly like that and primarily for that reason, even if Spiegel is one of the most renowned publications around.

Either way, one day after that article was published, Germany secured an additional 30 million doses from Biontech. Also had secured 20 million CureVac ones already.

Plus, if all the Brits and French don't want any of their vaccines, as looks to be the case, we'll just buy theirs.

The general expectation, or word, from the government is that everybody who wants a vaccine will have been vaccinated by June/July.

Report edy December 30, 2020 11:58 PM GMT
The dark days ahead thing in Germany compared to the USA is because we Germans are always full of doom and gloom. We invented goths. And black clothes. And everything sad.

Whereas the US are always, no matter what, looking ahead towards an ever brighter future.
Report SontaranStratagem December 31, 2020 12:30 AM GMT
The Americans have a dream, we call it being p*ssed and are going to awake to a banging headache
Report frog1000 December 31, 2020 10:29 AM GMT
The Pfizer vaccine data suggests it is 52% effective for up to 3 weeks after the first dose. No evidence beyond this.

Boris wants to give the 2nd dose after 12 weeks.
Report GAZO December 31, 2020 10:39 AM GMT
who has told boris this is okay or the right thing to do ?
Report frog1000 December 31, 2020 11:04 AM GMT
The MHRA have looked at the data and decided 4-12 weeks is ok for the second jab for both Vaccines.

Pfizer have been reported in the Mail saying:
But Pfizer said there was 'no data' in its studies to show its vaccine protects against Covid when taken 12 weeks apart.

In a thinly-veiled swipe at the UK, the US firm warned that any 'alternative' dosing regimens should be closely monitored by health authorities.

'Data from the phase three study demonstrated that, although partial protection from the vaccine appears to begin as early as 12 days after the first dose, two doses of the vaccine are required to provide the maximum protection against the disease, a vaccine efficacy of 95 per cent,' Pfizer said in a statement.

'There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.'


The government appear to have taken the MHRA 4-12 weeks regulation and pushed it to the limit and just said 12 weeks. Puts doctors jabbing people in a tough position, especially for people that have already taken jab 1 on the agreement they will get jab 2 in 3 weeks.
Report Timber December 31, 2020 11:19 AM GMT

Dec 31, 2020 -- 5:04AM, frog1000 wrote:


The MHRA have looked at the data and decided 4-12 weeks is ok for the second jab for both Vaccines.Pfizer have been reported in the Mail saying:But Pfizer said there was 'no data' in its studies to show its vaccine protects against Covid when taken 12 weeks apart.In a thinly-veiled swipe at the UK, the US firm warned that any 'alternative' dosing regimens should be closely monitored by health authorities.'Data from the phase three study demonstrated that, although partial protection from the vaccine appears to begin as early as 12 days after the first dose, two doses of the vaccine are required to provide the maximum protection against the disease, a vaccine efficacy of 95 per cent,' Pfizer said in a statement.'There are no data to demonstrate that protection after the first dose is sustained after 21 days.'The government appear to have taken the MHRA 4-12 weeks regulation and pushed it to the limit and just said 12 weeks. Puts doctors jabbing people in a tough position, especially for people that have already taken jab 1 on the agreement they will get jab 2 in 3 weeks.


You have scientists, pseudo scientists, dimwits and charlatans all cobbling this together.>

Report GAZO December 31, 2020 11:24 AM GMT
why would you change what the company tells you to do ?,i thought they were the one's who did all the tests
Report Cider December 31, 2020 12:50 PM GMT
Pfizer has a significant commercial interest to protect.

As I mentioned above, we are not looking at maximum protection per individual, but the best overall result of the deployment of limited resources.
Report frog1000 December 31, 2020 2:16 PM GMT

Dec 31, 2020 -- 6:50AM, Cider wrote:


Pfizer has a significant commercial interest to protect. As I mentioned above, we are not looking at maximum protection per individual, but the best overall result of the deployment of limited resources.


Just Blair concept with no evidence in the science to suggest it is a good idea.

If the gamble fails we could have 20,000,000 people a jab that wears off in a few weeks instead of 10,000,000 with lasting protection.

Madness.

Report Cider December 31, 2020 3:21 PM GMT
I don't care about Blair. Pure logic isn't is. Vaccinate 1 million people @95% or 10 million people @70%. I'm not in charge so don't know the specifics but if all of the most vulnerable people have a good level of protection it is far better than a small proportion of vulnerable people getting great protection. There's no dry run or test environment that can replicate rolling it out to millions in the real world. So I'm sure they'll learn more as the program progresses.
Report lapsy pa December 31, 2020 3:34 PM GMT
Cider,well and good for the goverment,however if you are going to take the vaccine you want it to work,yes,for yourself,not a half measure.
Report GAZO December 31, 2020 3:36 PM GMT
cider,i understand that but were are they getting the data from if the company dont really agree or claim they have no data to back up what they are doing
Report Cider December 31, 2020 3:37 PM GMT
Authorities make decisions on the big picture, not individual outcomes. AFIK there is no plan to abandon the booster jab, they are just making it optimal for the population.
Report lapsy pa December 31, 2020 3:40 PM GMT
Well if you think they are going to have a large take up,you will be mistaking,a vaccine that half works will be the label, it is actually detrimental,stinks of panic too.
Report Cider December 31, 2020 3:40 PM GMT
Pfizer's 'usp' is the efficacy, but it is expensive and very impractical. If they don't retain the USP it will effectively be redundant as an option.
Report Cider December 31, 2020 3:43 PM GMT
I don't know about Ireland but the NHS will reach out to people here. The numbers turning down AZ and waiting for Pfizer will be negligible. In fact I doubt they will even be informed in advance which one it is.
Report frog1000 December 31, 2020 4:07 PM GMT
Cider there is no evidence that the jab will do anything whatsoever to protect people after a few weeks if they do not get jab 2.

It will then be the end of spring and we will have no idea if people are protected because cases will drop naturally if we ignore the trial result data.

Potentially millions jabs and vital time will be wasted and we will be back to square one next autumn.
Report tobermory December 31, 2020 5:39 PM GMT
Either way, one day after that article was published, Germany secured an additional 30 million doses from Biontech. Also had secured 20 million CureVac ones already.

Plus, if all the Brits and French don't want any of their vaccines, as looks to be the case, we'll just buy theirs.


Yes, but my original point was not to criticize Germany, rather that - back in July- the remainer narrative was that of course the EU was the best organization to be in charge of purchasing and distributing vaccines, and Britain deciding to 'go it alone' was 'putting Brexit before health'. Now it appears that the EU operation has been bungled in several ways and Germany and everyone else will end up 'going it alone' by making their own purchases to ensure they have enough for their citizens.
Report Tiger Tiger December 31, 2020 6:20 PM GMT
Very well put tobermory.
Report edy December 31, 2020 8:23 PM GMT
Yes, but my original point was not to criticize Germany, rather that - back in July- the remainer narrative was that of course the EU was the best organization to be in charge of purchasing and distributing vaccines, and Britain deciding to 'go it alone' was 'putting Brexit before health'.

Well, the EU did sign up to a higher proportion of Biontech and a lower proportion of the GSK vaccine. The GSK vaccine, which the UK invested into more heavily, being a shambles was your starting point.
Report edy December 31, 2020 8:24 PM GMT
My point is simply that you should've looked at the UK before mocking others for signing a contract with Sanofi-GSK.
Report edy December 31, 2020 8:25 PM GMT
and then either mock both in a well deserved way, or none.
Report edy December 31, 2020 8:33 PM GMT
It's probably stupid inconveniences from sideshows like Brexit that encouraged the European leaders to do an EU-wide vaccine getting programme too. Further encouraged an urge to show unity and solidarity after all the nationalists had already criticised the nation leaders of having been too...nationalist in the spring regarding PPE and stuff.
Report Fatslogger December 31, 2020 11:33 PM GMT
I’m surprised they’ve done this, although obviously it’s very on brand for them to switch policies having thoroughly committed to the initial one, decried any suggestions that the alternative might be sensible then jumped ship at a time certain to cause embarrassment, loss of faith and massive disruption to people who’d assumed they meant it when they announced the original policy. There are too many examples to list but of course, they did something similar just before the Pfizer vaccine landed, changing from the agreed policy of vaccinating NHS staff first to over 80s instead.

For what it’s worth, I think both those policy changes were probably sensible in themselves, leaving aside the absurd implementation. I’m a bit grumpy that the initial switch has resulted in me not being vaccinated yet but it probably makes more sense to vaccinate an 80 year old than me, although the calculations get complex when you consider the risks of health workers spreading Covid and of sickness on staffing levels.

The 12 week gap is indeed out with the evidence presented from the trials but it’s not really mechanistically plausible that the immunity will disappear with a booster dose in 12 rather than 3 weeks. If anything, a later boost is more likely to give longer immunity, I’d have thought, although I’m not a vaccinologist.
Report Fatslogger December 31, 2020 11:37 PM GMT
I rather cynically assume that the various vaccine researchers didn’t do much testing on long gaps between initial and booster dose because that would have slowed the trials down. This may be unfair.
Report wolf3011 January 1, 2021 1:33 AM GMT
By the time this sh1tshow has finished most people will have caught the dreaded covid anyway and be automatically immune presumably which will no doubt be attributed to the vaccine rather than the virus burning itself out.
Report cryoftruth January 1, 2021 6:30 AM GMT
You have scientists, pseudo scientists, dimwits and charlatans all cobbling this together.>
Oh dear. Having dazzled us with his awesome analysis of USA politics - “I love Trump” and “Biden is senile”, Timber has ventured into the realm of vaccines and brought his powers of logic and reason to bare on that.

Now dear forumites,Timber has spoken, so will you,

1. Avoid vaccines at all costs because the mighty Timber has spoken?
2. Join Q-anon and call the boffins from Oxford University “dimwits and charlatans” like Timber? or
3. Decide that the anti vaccine pus being dripped out be some geniuses is odious ignorant tripe and get vaccinated as soon as possible to help protect you grandparents, NHS, doctors, nurses and of course our economy?
Report Timber January 1, 2021 7:05 AM GMT

Jan 1, 2021 -- 12:30AM, cryoftruth wrote:


You have scientists, pseudo scientists, dimwits and charlatans all cobbling this together.>Oh dear. Having dazzled us with his awesome analysis of USA politics - “I love Trump” and “Biden is senile”, Timber has ventured into the realm of vaccines and brought his powers of logic and reason to bare on that.Now dear forumites,Timber has spoken, so will you,1. Avoid vaccines at all costs because the mighty Timber has spoken?2. Join Q-anon and call the boffins from Oxford University “dimwits and charlatans” like Timber? or 3. Decide that the anti vaccine pus being dripped out be some geniuses is odious ignorant tripe and get vaccinated as soon as possible to help protect you grandparents, NHS, doctors, nurses and of course our economy?


Taken out of context cryer.
I was talking about politicians getting involved and other miscreants like Bill Gates and his sponsored doctors/activists.
Some very shifty people are involved in this whole process to create as much fear as possible

btw you can have my dose cryer, have a double dose, you know you want to

Report cryoftruth January 1, 2021 7:39 AM GMT
You will be okay as you will imbibe bleach as your hero ordered Timber.
By the way did he swallow bleach before or after he grabbed young women “by the pussssy” or after “Mexico paid for the wall” ?
Report cryoftruth January 1, 2021 7:40 AM GMT
You will be okay as you will imbibe bleach as your hero ordered Timber.
By the way did he swallow bleach before or after he grabbed young women “by the pussssy” or after “Mexico paid for the wall” ?
Report Timber January 1, 2021 7:48 AM GMT
You must have lead a very very sheltered life if you have never heard blokes talking about women like that.
Of course Mexico were not going to pay for the wall, he got it done though!
NEWSFLASH: politicians stretch the truth or tell lies, who'd have thunk it
Report Cider January 1, 2021 11:12 AM GMT

Dec 31, 2020 -- 5:33PM, Fatslogger wrote:


I’m surprised they’ve done this, although obviously it’s very on brand for them to switch policies having thoroughly committed to the initial one, decried any suggestions that the alternative might be sensible then jumped ship at a time certain to cause embarrassment, loss of faith and massive disruption to people who’d assumed they meant it when they announced the original policy. There are too many examples to list but of course, they did something similar just before the Pfizer vaccine landed, changing from the agreed policy of vaccinating NHS staff first to over 80s instead. For what it’s worth, I think both those policy changes were probably sensible in themselves, leaving aside the absurd implementation. I’m a bit grumpy that the initial switch has resulted in me not being vaccinated yet but it probably makes more sense to vaccinate an 80 year old than me, although the calculations get complex when you consider the risks of health workers spreading Covid and of sickness on staffing levels. The 12 week gap is indeed out with the evidence presented from the trials but it’s not really mechanistically plausible that the immunity will disappear with a booster dose in 12 rather than 3 weeks. If anything, a later boost is more likely to give longer immunity, I’d have thought, although I’m not a vaccinologist.


It's yet another example over the course of this pandemic, of the 'elite' class constructing policy from an office and computer screen, having very little experience of the front line or life as most people live it. It was totally implausible to expect a second jab to be administered at exactly 21 days, keeping all the records involved accurate. I should imagine it's hard enough to get people who are aged and ill from other ailments to meet appointment 1. Or of course roll it with any kind of the expediency required. The Pfizer vaccine is great on paper but totally impractical on their advised prescription, and of course next to impossible storage requirements. They will learn as they roll it out, so further adjustments may come.

Report frog1000 January 1, 2021 3:07 PM GMT
Many doctors are going to honor the commitment they have given to patients. Good news.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9104009/Britain-cancels-second-Covid-dose-thousands-amid-plan-people-jab.html
Report Cider January 1, 2021 8:33 PM GMT
Good news for whom. The lucky few who have already had one dose of Pfizer?
Report Fatslogger January 1, 2021 9:47 PM GMT
Cider, it’s perfectly feasible to get people back around 3 weeks after an initial vaccine dose for a booster, although no doubt it’s harder work than just giving a single dose. If anything it’s probably rather easier than getting people back in 12 weeks for a booster. I really don’t think that’s the reason they’ve changed the approach.

Having dug into the data a little bit more the AstraZeneca / Oxford vaccine does have good evidence for if anything a better immune response after a booster at 8 weeks than 3 or 4, which is, as I’ve said, if anything more plausible in terms of how you’d expect the immune system to behave. The evidence is lacking for Pfizer but it’s not terribly plausible that immunity would be excellent if the booster came at 3 weeks and significantly worse at 12. If anything, you’d expect immunity to last longer with a later boost.
Report Cider January 1, 2021 11:04 PM GMT
The problem is obvious, getting people to attend the second time, at the right time, in what I assume to be a stressed system. It seems even in the relatively small numbers, because Pfizer effectively goes out of date quickly after thawing, they are already struggling to get it to people that have been assigned the jabs initially. They are already struggling with the first dose, so when it comes to managing first doses and second doses, in the restricted narrow original time frame it is literally a recipe for collapse. What happens if there is no doses available for the second dose after the predesignated for example.

I'm only going off what the vaccine types discussed at the press conference where there were no politicians. The second dose is now between 3 and 12 weeks which is obviously a much bigger window and room for manoeuvre. With AZ they said it went from 70% first dose to 80% second dose. In the bigger picture this is negligible, in regard to the upside of ensuring the vulnerable get a first dose asap.
Report Cider January 1, 2021 11:09 PM GMT
One has to question why the experts didn't conclude this already. It's not a game or computer model, it's real life, with humans who don't always act in the way they should.
Report Cider January 1, 2021 11:22 PM GMT
It's reminiscent of the whole testing debacle at the start where NHS England failed to admit they couldn't cope until it was too late.
Report Fatslogger January 1, 2021 11:30 PM GMT
It’s clearly the case that it’s a pain getting a second Pfizer dose in at exactly 3 weeks, but we’ve already dealt with that by not being too strict about exactly 3 weeks. From that point, though, given that we’re already not necessarily doing what they did in the trials, you have to think that stretching it a bit further isn’t a big deal.
Report Cider January 2, 2021 8:42 AM GMT
We've not even touched on if the ones had the first job have a cold or whatever, or have been asked to self isolate. It would have been problematic anyway, but I would have reserved Pfizer for front line health people (along with any people in hospital long term).
Report Timber January 2, 2021 8:45 AM GMT
They are talking about mixing and matching vaccines now.
Report Timber January 2, 2021 8:47 AM GMT
.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/01/health/coronavirus-vaccines-britain.html#click=https://t.co/bnTHKlNf5K
Report Cider January 2, 2021 8:50 AM GMT
As a last resort. I'm afraid, while much of the country worships the NHS, as an organisation it is lamentable. I've no doubt there are great individuals working within it.
Report Cider January 2, 2021 8:53 AM GMT
Compare and contrast the army sorting testing at Dover, or how the food retailers have adapted through the year. The NHS told us they spent the summer preparing for the second wave, and the vaccine roll out. Yeah.
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 10:23 AM GMT
The NHS needs massive reforms. This Covid situation has shown that even with hundreds of billions extra thrown at it the system is just not fit for purpose.

From the spread of Covid inside hospital to being unable to cope with predictable increases in numbers is poor. The decline in other services from GPs, Cancer and mental health is horrendous. The inability of NHS test and trace and the NHS app to to work is also poor. The people running the NHS just appear to be out of their depth.

Of all the things not being able to contain Covid inside hospitals when they had massive Nightingale hospitals at their disposal for just that is the worst thing.
Report nineteen points January 2, 2021 10:50 AM GMT
nhs reminds me of blackadder series set in first world war.lions led by donkeys
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 10:57 AM GMT
Mix n Match eh another 3 pronged slogan
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:11 AM GMT
We don’t know why the most wealthy countries in the west have such high covid figures
It’s a mystery , but it can’t be because of the NHS
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 11:14 AM GMT
It's because they test more
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:18 AM GMT
Deaths? If we compare even throughout Europe , the wealthy countries with the best of healthcare and the poorer Eastern European countries
I think we can trust Slovakia to count the figures correctly
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:21 AM GMT
Having said that just noticed Poland have about 27,000 deaths
Didn’t think it was as bad as that there also
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:23 AM GMT
But the point is it can’t be the nhs , or funding or austerity etc
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 11:24 AM GMT
Unless you can find out the specifics on how illness is diagnosed and recorded and deaths are diagnosed and recorded it's impossible to judge like for like,I've said similar about the Eastern Asia countries on another thread.
Not long ago I saw figures which were number of deaths from C19 per 1000,0000 population.
US were around 200 - UK - 600 - China 3
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 11:25 AM GMT
*1000,000 i.e per million*
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:28 AM GMT
I think we can look at Europe , Greece for example
Have they a better health care system than the U.K. , and other European countries
No they don’t .
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 11:34 AM GMT
Definitely not.
My posts are about judging like for like on the C19 data,I forgot to mention the tests (which don't test for infectious disease) are also carried out differently in different countries.
The amplification and cycles to determine presence of RNA data vary from country to country and you can bet your last quid the $$$$ vested interest West will have more cycles and higher amplification.
Report Timber January 2, 2021 11:35 AM GMT
This is becoming sinister

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1345006866829463552

https://twitter.com/CheungRonny/status/1345307828119089152

The BBC are a national disgrace and need to be defunded NOW
Report Timber January 2, 2021 11:36 AM GMT
FCUK the BBC and their sick agendaAngry
Report nineteen points January 2, 2021 11:36 AM GMT
maybe these countries tell the true figures.
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 11:37 AM GMT
BBC = Fearmongering government mouthpiece - could rename FGM which could cause confusion but is relevant due to the number of fannees they employ.
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:39 AM GMT
Just a minute 19, you said lions led by donkeys
Are the figures true or not ?
Report nineteen points January 2, 2021 11:44 AM GMT
in my opinion no.one example,do you believe their was 339,024 people tested on christmas day?
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 11:46 AM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 5:11AM, lfc1971 wrote:


We don’t know why the most wealthy countries in the west have such high covid figures It’s a mystery , but it can’t be because of the NHS


The west have done more lockdowns and other policies which has dragged things out longer and allowed the virus to mutate.

Flattening the curve to protect the NHS does not save lives. It is just keeps things going longer and longer.

Report Timber January 2, 2021 11:48 AM GMT
The more you test, the more fake data you can spout and create this face mask monkey fear
Most people don't understand the tests and the number of cycles
Also the current test can pick up a cold as Chinese flu.
Preposterous stuff from the govt and extremely sinister
Report nineteen points January 2, 2021 11:51 AM GMT
surely spreading out the population in the fresh air or well ventilated places is better than herding them altogether cooped up feeding the virus and letting it mutate and bloom in dirty warm wet face nappies.
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:51 AM GMT
Frog , in Greece eg they didn’t trust that their health care could cope
Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 11:54 AM GMT
They had been through years of austerity , maybe that’s the fault of the tories and the nhs also ?
Report Timber January 2, 2021 11:54 AM GMT
Britain's former fattest man who once tipped the scales at 65 stone has died aged 52

Obviously chinese flu, not heart failure!

Those 29,000 calories a day had no effect on his health over the years ffs
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 11:55 AM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 5:51AM, lfc1971 wrote:


Frog , in Greece eg they didn’t trust that their health care could cope


Greece did a brutal early lockdown that kept things quiet in the spring but are one of the highest out there in terms of deaths per 100k November/December.

Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 11:57 AM GMT
Fat Bazzer Laugh I wouldn't have liked his shopping bill
Report Timber January 2, 2021 12:00 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 5:57AM, DenzilPenberthy wrote:


Fat Bazzer  I wouldn't have liked his shopping bill


All paid for by the govt! 60/70 pints and everything on the menu at a curry house

I wouldn't have liked to follow him into the trap after a monster sesh
I also wouldn't like to be one of the pall bearers

Report lfc1971 January 2, 2021 12:00 PM GMT
Yes I take your point , so it’s not about the nhs
It’s something else
Report DenzilPenberthy January 2, 2021 12:04 PM GMT
Aye Timber can remember watching a documentary about him ungodly levels of greed and abuse
Report Timber January 2, 2021 12:11 PM GMT
Sky News
@SkyNews
·
5m
COVID-19: 'Mixing coronavirus vaccines is not recommended', health agency warns

These are people's lives they are playing with
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 1:04 PM GMT
It is an absolute shambles by Hancock.

The key to getting this roll out right and maintaining trust in it is to set out a solid plan and stick to it.

If you take one vaccine the idea you follow up with another if you have nothing else available is absurd.

We knew Pfizer was a two jab course 3 weeks apart from the start. No one should have been given jab 1 unless the person doing the jab knew for sure they had jab 2 available in 3 weeks for the same person.

Trust in these vaccines is already low. These Phase 4 trials are turning into a farce.
Report nineteen points January 2, 2021 1:11 PM GMT
dont worry.i am sure someone will explain why the makers got it wrong and our "advisers" know better.just shut up and do as your told.
Report Cider January 2, 2021 1:13 PM GMT
I told you what happened. NHS have massively oversold their capabilities, just like testing. I'm no government apologist for the covid charade, but the politicians are taking the flak for the massive incompetence of the civil service, multiple talking heads and the mechanics of running the country. Just like floods, trains and all the all the other things regularly fukked up in this country. Helen Dale calls it state capacity. And there are plenty of politics involved as the institutions are not fans of the people in charge.
Report GAZO January 2, 2021 1:13 PM GMT
do you mean two different vaccines ? he hasnt suggested that has he
Report wolf3011 January 2, 2021 1:20 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 5:11AM, lfc1971 wrote:


We don’t know why the most wealthy countries in the west have such high covid figures It’s a mystery , but it can’t be because of the NHS


Given that the " wealthy countries" have a higher number of obese people smoking it's hardly a great shock is it

Report nineteen points January 2, 2021 1:30 PM GMT
cider,it was govts who cut 33k beds in a rising population,not the civil service
Report Cider January 2, 2021 1:45 PM GMT
There's plenty of hospital capacity available if they want it, 19. Don't get chewed up by the propaganda.
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 1:50 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 7:13AM, GAZO wrote:


do you mean two different vaccines ? he hasnt suggested that has he


Public Health England (PHE) has said it does not recommend mixing COVID-19 vaccines from different suppliers.

The warning comes as distribution of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is due to start in the UK next week, the second roll-out following the launch of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in December, with both requiring two doses.

On New Year's Eve, the UK government issued guidance to NHS medics saying that if a person who has received their first jab goes back for their second but the same type is not available, or the first vaccine type is unknown, then it is "reasonable" to offer a dose of another vaccine.

"This option is preferred if the individual is likely to be at immediate high risk or is considered unlikely to attend again," the guidance adds.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-mixing-coronavirus-vaccines-is-not-recommended-health-agency-warns-12177320

Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 1:52 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 7:13AM, Cider wrote:


I told you what happened. NHS have massively oversold their capabilities, just like testing. I'm no government apologist for the covid charade, but the politicians are taking the flak for the massive incompetence of the civil service, multiple talking heads and the mechanics of running the country. Just like floods, trains and all the all the other things regularly fukked up in this country. Helen Dale calls it state capacity. And there are plenty of politics involved as the institutions are not fans of the people in charge.


Hancock is in charge of the Health and Social Care. It is his responsibility.

The Tories have had ten years to sort it out and repair the damage caused by Blair/Brown.

Report Cider January 2, 2021 1:52 PM GMT
That's a last resort, obviously. People are digging for problems when they are not there.
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 1:54 PM GMT
Cider what evidence is their that giving the wrong second jab is better than giving no second jab at all?

These products are not licensed to be given as a mixture surely?
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 1:55 PM GMT
At some point you have to be objective and able to criticise even if you agree with everything else Boris and Hancock have done.
Report Cider January 2, 2021 1:56 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 7:52AM, frog1000 wrote:


Jan  2, 2021 --  2:13PM, Cider wrote:I told you what happened. NHS have massively oversold their capabilities, just like testing. I'm no government apologist for the covid charade, but the politicians are taking the flak for the massive incompetence of the civil service, multiple talking heads and the mechanics of running the country. Just like floods, trains and all the all the other things regularly fukked up in this country. Helen Dale calls it state capacity. And there are plenty of politics involved as the institutions are not fans of the people in charge.Hancock is in charge of the Health and Social Care. It is his responsibility.The Tories have had ten years to sort it out and repair the damage caused by Blair/Brown.


If the NHS informs him that they are fully prepared for the roll out, what do think he should do? It seems pretty clear to me what has happened here, the NHS are failing to deliver what they said they could. Now you tell me if the government outright admitted that, and blamed the NHS how that would work out for them?

Report Cider January 2, 2021 1:57 PM GMT
Politicians of all colours have made the NHS untouchable.
Report Cider January 2, 2021 2:00 PM GMT
I'm hugely critical of the government's approach to covid, trust me.
Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 2:06 PM GMT

Jan 2, 2021 -- 7:56AM, Cider wrote:


Jan  2, 2021 --  2:52PM, frog1000 wrote:Jan

Report frog1000 January 2, 2021 2:07 PM GMT
The public could not care less if the government sack people managing parts of the NHS who have failed the tax payer.

As long of the nurses and doctors are ring fenced for any talking badly about them.
Report Timber January 2, 2021 2:12 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaugh

This could be a bone of contention for men

https://twitter.com/catturd2/status/1345370683803631618/photo/1
Report Cider January 2, 2021 2:13 PM GMT
They can't do it now, frankly.

We're in an era when people are so entrenched in their particular political ideologies, they have no conscience. They don't mind harming people on the way. So we see crap like that BBC story or teachers refusing to work.

It's no surprise at all, this is being ratcheted up after the Brexit success. It will be the separatists getting the support too. Anything to make it difficult for those currently in office.
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