Dec 31, 2020 -- 11:25AM, Fatslogger wrote:
It isn’t. Who said it was? I thought we were talking about cancer generally, not specific types of cancer that might allow you to get out of answering questions about your views on treating elderly people.
You're just a sad troll that reverts back to virtue signalling about not being empathetic to old people implying anyone that doesnt shake like a leaf with covid is a relative to Dr shipman. You're irrational and have no perspective on anything - terrifying to think you are a doctor so nonchalant over thousands of people not getting cancer treatment over a disease that has an age of death above life expectancy with people on their last legs in most cases. You're covid obsessed to the point where an atomic bomb could detonate killing millions and you would still be testing Mrs Brown for covid who was 92 having being given a terminal cancer diagnosis 3 years earlier. Utterly brainwashed with spin/ propaganda. I'm not sure why you keep typing affects out other than confirming you are struggling and out of your depth when stating " cancer affects the elderly like covid" but presented with 25% of bone cancers affecting under 20s
Dec 31, 2020 -- 11:45AM, nineteen points wrote:
There isn’t one!
Dec 31, 2020 -- 12:18PM, frog1000 wrote:
9 months.Hundreds and Hundred of billions of pounds thrown at the NHS.Many times their normal annualAnd still they cannot cope.I was all for clapping for them early on but the people running the NHS have failed miserably to deal with the uplift this winter - or so they are claiming.How many more resources do they want?
Naught NHS chiefs not being able to magic up trained staff in 9 months.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 12:36PM, nineteen points wrote:
fats,there is a 17.09 postwhy,as you seem an educated,sensible,reasonable man,do you have to disagree,argue,dispute,every single point someone has on this covid situation unless they are backing the actions,stats and statements of this govt.surely,just once or twice you dont agree with something.or are you just here to defend them whatever,on the payroll?
I can’t see it. Oh it’s a time stamp issue isn’t it? It’s 4.09pm for me. Sorry, didn’t clock it all first time around.
Testing numbers often are a bit bent out of shape by when they’re reported but that seems a plausible enough number to me.
The single dose initially and catch up later thing is interesting. Don’t have ages to answer now but the large majority of the protection comes from dose 1 so it’s appealing to get twice as many people vaccinated in the next 8 weeks or so than otherwise possible and catch up later, bearing in mind how critical a time period it is with the case numbers so high. The worry would be whether immunity will wane quickly if not topped up but if anything a later booster dose seems more likely to offer sustained immunity. We need trials to know for sure but won’t get them in time so have to guess, a bit.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 12:43PM, wolf3011 wrote:
Fatslogger your posts are like a demented parrot in a never ending repetitive cycle of straw man accusations rabbiting on
Dec 31, 2020 -- 12:53PM, nineteen points wrote:
so you honestly believe 339,024 people left their house on christmas day to go for a covid test? did santa and his little helpers do them? come on fats we are not the fools you take us forand as for the vaccine,the makers themselves have stated their testing was based on 2nd dose being within 21 days and cant vouch for any results after that.so who made the decision to float those recommendations?
Have you heard of home testing?
Yes, I agree about the vaccine trial evidence. That’s why I said we need new trials looking at different time periods between doses and that it was a hard call but then the benefit of vaccinating close to twice as many people in a 3 month window is quite a large one, isn’t it?
Dec 31, 2020 -- 1:25PM, wolf3011 wrote:
I've provided 2 egs of cancers which are 20 years and over 60 years difference in age groups, I'd say that is fairly substantial. The fact as a supposed doctor ( stifles laughter) you are continuing on with your ridiculous assertion that there isnt much difference in age demographics between covid / cancer deaths when 1 in 5 new cancers are diagnosed in under 55s is laughable.
The screeching sound is the goalposts moving. Osteosarcoma is a very rare cancer. That’s like me providing stats for Covid deaths in people with learning disability and saying they prove that Covid kills lots of young people. Breast cancer was the other one? You gave age of diagnosis. Other than that though, really good point.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 1:57PM, wolf3011 wrote:
so when diagnosed with cancer patients need no treatment fatslogger? 1 in 5 new cancers are under 55 and you are comparing that to a disease that has an average age of death of 82 with the vast majority not even knowing they have covid its that mild. You aren't Dr who by perchance ?
No mate, you were comparing it to Covid, not me and you’re doing it without even a ghost of an idea of what the comparison tells you, or of the fact that if you cared about cancer deaths, you’d be agitating for stricter Covid measures. I just pointed out your cognitive dissonance to you, with the usual results for pointing out cognitive dissonance to people.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 1:47PM, unitedbiscuits wrote:
There is always someone ranting about racism on some thread, it's like a disease in peoples brains they have to let it out whether it's football on the knee, covid or anything. If you want to have a look at why hospitals are overrun with pateints, you may want to have a look at Blairs government circa 1997Sorry, what does that even mean?
It’s a bit of racism. He’s saying that immigration is the reason why the NHS is overrun. He’s ignoring that immigrants under the Blair governments were disproportionately young and disproportionately NHS workers, so contributed to less NHS pressure rather than more.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:02PM, unitedbiscuits wrote:
so once again, why were hospitals overrun long before brexit united biscuits?They had a lot of new hospitals but couldn't find the staff to open them?Or does that seem to you -as it seems to me - a different order of f**k up?
Whether it's a fck up or not, posting a picture of what looks like the EDL and linking it to brexit which hasn't even happened yet is the most ridiculous post of the thread.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:02PM, wolf3011 wrote:
Do you read what you type fatslogger? "On average the age of diagnosis of Covid is much lower than the age of diagnosis of cancer. You still don’t seem to have a good handle on the word “affects”.While you’re not answering questions about the word “affects” and whether we should investigate or treat cancer in elderly people, how about I ask you another question you won’t answer? What do you mean by “a vast majority” in your post above?Oh and in passing, quite a few people have cancer without realising it, probably a higher proportion than have Covid without knowing, depending on how you define cancer and how hard you look for it. Why do you think we have screening programmes?Are you drunk?
How many times did you read that trying to understand it? Seems to have taken you a while to be sure that you weren't going to get there. Tell me which bit(s) you struggled with and I’ll try again.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:10PM, wolf3011 wrote:
Youve just said you don't compare the two illnesses of cancer and covid yet have spent several posts doing so lol... do you have learning difficulties? It's a genuine question as your posting style isn't indicative of a fully functioning adult male.
I was explaining the bizarre and erroneous nature of your comparisons to you. Like I said, with the usual result of pointing out that people are terribly illogical to them, which is that they become (more) incoherent and irritated.
You were also the person that raised the issue of racism. If the shoe fits, you can just wear it. Given that the numbers, as I’ve pointed out, show the opposite of what you say they do, there must be something else going on, mustn’t there?
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:17PM, wolf3011 wrote:
"I love that you post the most rampaging straw man yet before complaining that I’ve straw manned you by asking you a few questions. I mean, if you chose to answer them, your position would be clear, wouldn’t it? "I mean imagine getting treated off a Dr posting this and then asking for someone to post evidence that cancer deaths outweigh covid deaths but then admitting " There aren’t actually ONS cancer figures for this year yet but probably cancer will end up having killed a little under twice as many people from March to December as Covid, which seems a fair enough comparison.
You’ve just admitted that you made something up without stats, when we were all so confident you had a really solid evidential backing for what you were saying.
Also, screeching goalposts again, I didn’t ask you to prove that cancer deaths were higher than Covid deaths, I asked you to support what you actually said. As I keep telling you, I don’t really expect you to read and understand my posts but you could at least make the effort to read your own and work out what you’re saying.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:21PM, Fatslogger wrote:
Dec 31, 2020 -- 9:17PM, wolf3011 wrote:"I love that you post the most rampaging straw man yet before complaining that I’ve straw manned you by asking you a few questions. I mean, if you chose to answer them, your position would be clear, wouldn’t it? "I mean imagine getting treated off a Dr posting this and then asking for someone to post evidence that cancer deaths outweigh covid deaths but then admitting " There aren’t actually ONS cancer figures for this year yet but probably cancer will end up having killed a little under twice as many people from March to December as Covid, which seems a fair enough comparison.You’ve just admitted that you made something up without stats, when we were all so confident you had a really solid evidential backing for what you were saying. Also, screeching goalposts again, I didn’t ask you to prove that cancer deaths were higher than Covid deaths, I asked you to support what you actually said. As I keep telling you, I don’t really expect you to read and understand my posts but you could at least make the effort to read your own and work out what you’re saying.
Where have I just " admitted I made something up without stats" when even the stats you put up yourself show twice as many cancer deaths to covid deaths. Why would you ask for stats to support cancer deaths dont outweigh covid deaths unless you are trolling again? By admitting they do you have admitted to asking for stats which you knew supported what I said so are basically talking out of your rear end.
Can you answer my earlier question, do you have learning difficulties? Every post is basically accusing me of saying things I havent said and making yourself look more ridiculous by asking for statistics that prove you are wrong
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:21PM, wolf3011 wrote:
"No mate, you were comparing it to Covid, not me and you’re doing it without even a ghost of an idea of what the comparison tells you, or of the fact that if you cared about cancer deaths, you’d be agitating for stricter Covid measures."https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-us/cancer-news/news-report/2020-07-08-urgent-cancer-referrals-being-turned-down-during-coronavirus-pandemic.
Yes, this is a really, really bad thing and exactly the reason why you should be advocating for stricter Covid control measures, if you really cared about cancer. Please explain how an overrun NHS is good for cancer treatment?
Funnily enough, you never quite got round to answering this earlier:
So you’re saying is that we should be content to let the pandemic continue unabated and overwhelm hospitals further, resulting in much more disruption to cancer care (along with all other non Covid diseases)? Or we should try hard to control it? Or some other course of action?
I’m guessing this was just an unfortunate oversight on your part and you’ll give it a really good go now.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:35PM, boxingthefox wrote:
I had 2 heart ops cancelled this year, nearly 'went' in Sept but came out of it with no help from A&E staff AGAIN!!!.I'm not arguing with anyone on here about this as it would benefit me not one jot.HAPPY NEW YEAR GUYS.
Indeed happy new year
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:43PM, Charlie wrote:
wolf3011 • December 31, 2020 5:48 PM GMTI'll put it as simply as I can so even someone as blinkered as you can grasp it fatslogger1) Cancer kills far more people of all ages and primarily the younger than covid2) The average age of death from cancer is much lower than covid3) Cancer can kill tens of thousands of children and people under 40 in the UK, covid can'tFS did ask but you ignored him. Where do you get these stats from?
off you pop old troll, its been discussed for hours and Im not spending the rest of the night on here repeating what's already been said. You believe that there are similar numbers of covid deaths to cancer deaths and the average age of death from a cancer patient is 82 if it gets you hard on news years eve.. enjoy the rest of the night and presumably next year holed away from covid in cupboards. Happy new year to the rest
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:17PM, boxingthefox wrote:
a fond good evening to you UB Happy New Year mate.
For you UB
Dec 31, 2020 -- 2:58PM, wolf3011 wrote:
Fatslogger will be on here for the rest of the night determined to have last word despite admitting he was wrong " There aren’t actually ONS cancer figures for this year yet but probably cancer will end up having killed a little under twice as many people from March to December as Covid, which seems a fair enough comparison". This confirms what I said so presumably he is arguing with himself akin to a scene from the exorcist where he is possessed Christ knows what meds this chaps on
No you’re fine wolf, I’m giving up now. Arguing with someone who doesn’t even read and understand his own posts either the first time or when they’re repeatedly quoted back at him is getting a bit wearing. Funny though, that you thought putting it in numbered points would make it simpler but it was still far too complicated for you.
Dec 31, 2020 -- 3:06PM, DenzilPenberthy wrote:
The same clique (why who knows ) do this year round always defending the establishment line with no other possible consideration whatever the circumstance,on top of that they never prove a fcking thing or properly discuss any ideas,it's fcking ignorance basically.It's embarrassing that people like us give them our time,outside of here you wouldn't give them a minute boredom has alot to answer for.
Absolutely, if someone knew a point was correct why would they ask for its source multiple times unless they were barking mad. If I said tomorrow morning the sun was coming up in the east slogger would ask for a source and after hours of patronising rubbish admit it was coming up in the east saying I was wrong lol
Dec 31, 2020 -- 12:27PM, Fatslogger wrote:
Dec 31, 2020 -- 7:18PM, frog1000 wrote:9 months.Hundreds and Hundred of billions of pounds thrown at the NHS.Many times their normal annualAnd still they cannot cope.I was all for clapping for them early on but the people running the NHS have failed miserably to deal with the uplift this winter - or so they are claiming.How many more resources do they want?Naught NHS chiefs not being able to magic up trained staff in 9 months.
No one is asking for that.
Just keep things clean and stop so many people catching Covid inside hospitals.
Just maybe sort out the NHS test and trace system that has had billions spent on it.
and sort out the NHS app that no one is using.
and sort out the red tape you have imposed to stop tens of thousands of ex-doctors and ex-nurses coming back to help with jabs and other tasks.
and get the GPs to open up and start seeing people.
and what about the 500,000 people that volunteered as NHS helpers. With the hundreds of billions put into Covid why could u not make use of them for some tasks?
The NHS has had hundreds of billions extra thrown at it yet have managed to increase waiting lists from months to years.
It has switched from the national health serivce to the national covid service.
It has failed at its time of need and likely taken the whole economy down with it.