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tobermory
17 Dec 20 22:23
Joined:
Date Joined: 01 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 7,497 | Blogger: tobermory's blog
Finance chief Nicholas Peter said it would cost the company  a 'mid three-digit million amount'

'We are hoping that a reasonable solution can be found'
Pause Switch to Standard View BMW starting to kick off about no deal
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Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 18, 2020 7:42 PM GMT
Bikes don't pay tariffs, the importer does
Report lfc1971 December 18, 2020 7:56 PM GMT
As you didn’t understand 19 , and you seem to be a slow learner
I thought
Report lfc1971 December 18, 2020 7:57 PM GMT
I thought I would try again
Any clearer ?
Report lfc1971 December 18, 2020 7:58 PM GMT
now yhtl , I’m not going to take you through this step by step as well

You’ll have to think for yourself , just a little bit
Report lfc1971 December 18, 2020 8:01 PM GMT
I’m beginning to think remainers are not particularly intelligent Sad
Report scandanavian_haven December 18, 2020 8:14 PM GMT
It's only worth buying a second had car is it now, buy a new one off the forecourt and it's worth so much less just 1 year later.
Report lfc1971 December 18, 2020 8:21 PM GMT
I have a 15 year old Toyota Yaris
Report Foinavon December 18, 2020 8:28 PM GMT
They are strange people eh lfc?
One thinks everyone has to buy the cheapest goods, anther seems to think that we will charge tariffs on homegrown produce and that British food is inferior to EU produce. It must be the result of years of brainwashing. Nevermind.
Report nineteen points December 18, 2020 8:30 PM GMT
well we dont have to have 4 posts at a time to get 1 point over
Report Foinavon December 18, 2020 8:32 PM GMT
I have a 10-year-old Mondeo. It's quiet, comfortable and a joy to drive. It's petrol, not filthy diesel like most of those German brands.
Report Escapee December 18, 2020 9:17 PM GMT
Ford Mondeo
Manufacturer    Ford
Also called     Ford Contour (North America) Mercury Mystique (North America) Ford Fusion (Americas)
Production    1993–present
Assembly    Belgium: Genk (1992–2013) Russia: Vsevolozhsk (2009–present) Spain: Ford Valencia (2014–present)
Report Escapee December 18, 2020 9:19 PM GMT
Nice one Foinavon, your loyalty to Putin is not just your love of trump but also your choice of car
Report lfc1971 December 18, 2020 9:22 PM GMT
Quite right foinavon , sorry 19 I apologise
I thought you were confused
Report Foinavon December 18, 2020 9:31 PM GMT
I believe mine was assembled at Genk with engine and transmission built at Valencia. It has been reliable so far and no corrosion anywhere. It owes me nothing and I have no intention of changing it.
Report scandanavian_haven December 18, 2020 9:36 PM GMT
isn't a 10 year old car a bit like someone today buying a computer with Windows 98
Report akabula December 18, 2020 9:40 PM GMT
Putin wasn't President of Russian when Foinavon bought his car, assuming it was bought new.
Report akabula December 18, 2020 9:43 PM GMT
Guy in our village has a 14 or 15 year old RR scandi, I'll put your thought to him and see what he has to say.
Report Foinavon December 18, 2020 9:45 PM GMT
I bought it in 2014 Akabula. Who needs all the latest computerised bells and whistles? I think the mechanics are quite modern
https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=134#:~:text=The%20Ford's%202.0%20EcoBoost%20is,2.0L%20EcoBoost%20in%202010.
Report akabula December 18, 2020 9:46 PM GMT
A 1964 E-Type Roadster on sale for £66,500.
Report akabula December 18, 2020 9:52 PM GMT
Foinavon a relative drives an old Jag.
He says the more things they put in cars the more things that can go wrong.
In his words he'll keep his car until either it dies or he does.
Report Escapee December 18, 2020 9:53 PM GMT
Putin wasn't President of Russian when Foinavon bought his car, assuming it was bought new.

Lol, yeah you're so right, my mistake.

1999: First premiership
1999–2000: Acting presidency
2000–2004: First presidential term
2004–2008: Second presidential term
2008–2012: Second premiership
2012–2018: Third presidential term
2018–present: Fourth presidential term
Report cryoftruth December 18, 2020 10:00 PM GMT
IFC

I was and am not a remainer but I understand that Brexit will make us all poorer (Part from the stinking rich bankers who bankroll the stinking Tories).

There is no need for brexiteers to lie and say it will all be fine, there will be more unemployed and less taxes retaken in and lots of all round misery here.

Brexit was and is about sovereignty.
Report Foinavon December 18, 2020 10:00 PM GMT
I agree with him Aka, I intend to do the same. The government is making petrol and diesel cars obsolete by 2030 so in 5 years time nobody will be interested in buying new unless it's electric or possibly hybrid.
Report akabula December 18, 2020 10:01 PM GMT
Foinavon bought his Spanish assembled Mondeo second hand so unless you can add a second hand car dealership to that list then loyalty to Putin doesn't come into it.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 18, 2020 10:03 PM GMT
Not much point buying electric if you want to go past the local shop
on a regular basis.

Just buy petrol car in 2029 and it will still be going in 2040
by which time most forumites will be too old to drive anyway.
Report tobermory December 18, 2020 10:10 PM GMT

Dec 18, 2020 -- 3:36PM, scandanavian_haven wrote:


isn't a 10 year old car a bit like someone today buying a computer with Windows 98


I think the median age of cars on UK roads is 7 years. So I’d expect about 25% must be 10 years+

Report Foinavon December 18, 2020 10:42 PM GMT
I actually think we should be more friendly towards Russia. It was an aggressive move by the West bringing Nato up to their revised borders after the fall of the Communist empire. The West needs to be careful not to drive Putin into the arms of China.
Report PorcupineorPineapple December 19, 2020 12:48 AM GMT
Of course you should. That's all part of the plan. First, destabilise the EU. Then hook up with Russia.

There's a good boy.
Report edy December 19, 2020 11:24 AM GMT
Even more friendly than what you already are in currently helping hide and wash almost all the money that Putin and his cronies rob from the Russian people?
Report Richie_Burnett December 19, 2020 11:33 AM GMT
If only you were born slightly more to the west, edy, you'd be driving a Vauxhall omega or senator rather than a 5 series beamerCry
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 1:07 PM GMT
Remainers are so amusing. For four and a half years they have been telling us that the mighty EU of 27 nations will be unfazed by the departure of the little island people. Now we are told we are destabilising the EU. Laugh They need no help from us in that regard.
Mr lefty in typical lefty fashion distorts my words to fit his own illusions. Being friendly towards Russia means rapprochement not "hooking up with". Cold-shouldering them is unhelpful.
The left was all too willing to hook up with the Soviet Union when it was run by the mass-murderer Stalin as Communism represents their nirvana. Some of their well-placed intellectuals even spied on us for him. The same Stalin who agreed to an ignoble pact with another genocidal mass-murderer who happened to be running Germany at the time.
Report dave1357 December 19, 2020 1:15 PM GMT
The same Stalin who agreed to an ignoble pact with another genocidal mass-murderer who happened to be running Germany at the time.

In May 1940, during the Second World War, the British war cabinet was split on the question of whether to make terms with Nazi Germany or to continue hostilities. The main protagonists were the prime minister, Winston Churchill, and the foreign secretary, Viscount Halifax. The dispute escalated to crisis point and threatened the continuity of the Churchill government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_cabinet_crisis,_May_1940
Report lfc1971 December 19, 2020 1:39 PM GMT
Germany and Russia started WW2 , as they launched a joint war against Poland in 1939 ( Russia taking the bigger part of the terrority)
And soviet Russia followed this up with invasions of Finland , Romania and the Baltic states the following year
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 2:18 PM GMT
As lfc says, the M-R pact was prior to the war proper. In 1940 the UK along with France were a defeated nation. We could either surrender or resist invasion. Churchill chose the latter. We were out of the main theatre in Europe until 1944 where the Red army had to fight the war alone. We assisted with the arctic convoys and with some battles in North Africa drawing off some of the enemy strength but we were a spent force after Dunkirk.
Report akabula December 19, 2020 5:38 PM GMT
Porkie anti Russia but pro Germany who should never be trusted.
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 6:17 PM GMT
Didn't Porkie say something about emigrating to italy? He's still here so must like Liverpool more.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 6:27 PM GMT
Maybe Johnson has flecked up covid to keep pop
in uk
Report tobermory December 19, 2020 8:43 PM GMT
In 1940 the UK along with France were a defeated nation. We could either surrender or resist invasion. Churchill chose the latter.We were out of the main theatre in Europe until 1944 where the Red army had to fight the war alone. We assisted with the arctic convoys and with some battles in North Africa drawing off some of the enemy strength but we were a spent force after Dunkirk.

Disagree.

That is how Churchill successfully presented Britain's options to history. Britain had no need to ever think about surrender. Invasion by Germany was a possibility but very probable to fail.

So the most logical thing - if you leave moral considerations out of it - was to take the option the Soviets took the previous summer: just do a deal with Germany. That is what Hitler expected. When Britain refused to negotiate the Battle of Britain began, which vindicated Churchill's speeches and made him a legend.

Interesting to speculate what would have happened if Hitler had just said "call us when you want to talk" and not made any attack in 1940. Churchill would have been making his speeches but not doing any serious fighting. As the months went by people would ask what the point of the war was if neither Britain or Germany were attacking each other. Churchill would never have agreed a deal (apart from anything else it would have been the end of his career) but he would have seemed like a vainglorious windbag talking about fighting here and there while not doing anything, and a lot of people would have had their pre war view of him confirmed. Perhaps by 1941 he would fall and then a deal would have been worked out by his successor.

So I disagree also that Britain was a minor factor in the war from 1940. It was the essential factor actually. If there is no Battle of Britain then America never joins the war. In the West there would be a 'Phony War' for a while, and then, most likely, the Soviets fighting a Germany that is effectively supported by Britain. Instead of relying on Romanian oil for their eastern offensives they could just buy it from Britain which controlled about the half the world supply.
Report akabula December 19, 2020 9:33 PM GMT
So many ifs and buts and so far removed from reality.
Report edy December 19, 2020 9:34 PM GMT

Dec 19, 2020 -- 11:38AM, akabula wrote:


Porkie anti Russia but pro Germany who should never be trusted.


The USA trusts Germany as probably their most important international military base.

Report edy December 19, 2020 9:36 PM GMT
also, heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Report edy December 19, 2020 9:39 PM GMT
The average modern German has far fewer ambitions to destroy the UK, and especially England, than the average modern Scot imo.
Also has fewer ambitions to destroy the EU than the average modern Englisher has.

...you people are so destructive Sad
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 9:41 PM GMT
Any "amicable" deal with Hitler would have entailed handing over the navy and the Empire.
Fighting on followed by defeat would have meant a Carthaginian peace. We were very lucky he didn't defeat the Russians otherwise he would have turned his full force on us and we wouldn't be able to hold out.
The Americans didn't want another war and large sections of their population were hostile to Britain.
Roosevelt only changed his mind after Pearl Harbour when Hitler foolishly declared war on America in December 1941.
Report shiny new shoes please December 19, 2020 9:46 PM GMT
Pineapples eat worms on rainy days mostly flying in the face of leopards.
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 9:47 PM GMT
I believe you edy, it's the French I'm worried about.
Report edy December 19, 2020 9:51 PM GMT
Even the French have installed an economically liberal president. They are on a good way of ending their socialist welfare state like the rest of us.
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 9:54 PM GMT
A young upstart, he's got a lot of problems of his own making on his hands. I'm waiting for Angie to slap him down, she's been too kind with him up to now.
Report edy December 19, 2020 9:59 PM GMT
Angie can't be mean. The UK could nuke Germany tomorrow and Angie would seek to create a win-win situation instead of ordering Macron to nuke you back with his greater, potentially even working, arsenal of nuclear warheads.

That's just how she is. Always looking to maximize the shared benefit for everyone.
Report tobermory December 19, 2020 10:00 PM GMT
Why would Britain hand anything over in 1940 ?

The Germans could have tried their luck at taking the navy and Empire !

Obviously Britain could laugh at those demands.

The Royal Navy was around 15 times bigger than the German at start of the war, and half the German fleet went to the bottom in the Norway campaign.

Germany would have been delighted with British recognition of their conquests, and a non aggression pact from which other things would have developed, such as trade at least.
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 10:16 PM GMT
Possibly but I think you underestimate the man's ambition. He could not be trusted. Stalin made that mistake, was wrongfooted and nearly lost the war. In 1941 Hitler was constructing bombproof underground factories to supply the war effort and had plenty of slave labour to build and man them. We had no money few resources and a defeated army which had abandoned its equipment in Northern France. We too lost ships at Dunkirk.
It's true that Hitler's immediate ambitions lay to the East and had he smashed the Russians I suspect he would have been back for us, peace deal or no deal.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 10:33 PM GMT
Navy was old hat.

Air power held sway in ww2, Germany had us
up against the wall, then 'itler blundered by
switching attack away from raf and onto cities.

Some clever trickery by our secret services too
and a big bluff sending bombers over germany

On top of extreme bravery from raf.




Jfks dad was us ambassador and his cables gave insight
into the way things were seen at the time.
Report Foinavon December 19, 2020 10:44 PM GMT
Yes, by concentrating their effort on the fighter force they could have eventually won by attrition.
Tobe is speculating on what might have happened if we had sued for peace. He may be right but there is no way of knowing.
I believe that Hitler thought he could conquer the world after the rapid fall of France and he didn't care how many died in the process.
Report tobermory December 19, 2020 11:04 PM GMT
I wrote a long post and it never appeared.

I was saying that Stalin was not naive to sign the pact. He figured Germany v UK/France would be years of trench warfare and trying to break down the maginot line.

Britain would not have been naive to sign a similar deal in 1940. They would know that Hitler could be back a couple of years later with more demands and threats. But only if he had won decisively in the east, and he would still be presented with the same problems re naval inferiority.

YHTl,  air power seemed like an unstoppable new force, but the Germans were not gonna get enough men and equipment across by air to conquer Britain.

They were gonna have to sail over. The Luftwaffe holding off the Royal Navy and the RAF was slim odds (though arguably on risk/reward basis still worth the gamble)
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 11:06 PM GMT
He could have beaten uk, but he made mistakes, as did goering.

The original plan was a road to victory.




Not sure why uk would accept German rule, losing a battle would
not have seen much worse conditions imposed upon us.

'itler was a nasty piece of work, and could not be trusted, and we
had allies and colonies that deserved our support.

Handing over all of that must have been seen as a huge price when
we likely had plan for our government to work from exile, and return
at later date.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 11:08 PM GMT
Wiping out raf, and invading with air superiority
would have been simple... D day in reverse.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 11:20 PM GMT
Germans of course had their subs, and had
we not captured an enigma machine the war may
Still have swung against us.

The detail we passed to Russians enabled them to
turn stalingrad, without us giving them so much info
that the Germans sussed we had their code cracked

That was one of our biggest assets a genius who could
release info, without releasing it all.
Report tobermory December 19, 2020 11:22 PM GMT
To be clear, I don't see Britain handing anything over to have ever been an issue.

That surrender was the only alternative to fighting on is a Churchill invention IMO , a caricature of the Halifax/Rab Butler position of negotiating peace.

A successful German invasion was going to be incredibly difficult. The RAF and the Royal Navy were very powerful.

On D Day the allies had air superiority and naval supremacy.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 11:26 PM GMT
I think we were right to resist.

We had a fighters chance, and our leaders
were simply better, and allowed to do what they
did best.

'itler was a nut job, and it cost him in the end
when he couldn't simply bully folk.
Report tobermory December 19, 2020 11:38 PM GMT
I agree we did the right thing, just disagree about the options we (and Germany)had.

I started a separate thread in case people not interested in BMW/Brexit would want to give an opinion.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 11:42 PM GMT
Some of the decisions we made, are still top secret
and always will be. They are part of the basis of todays
battleground options.

If 'itler had as efficient an operation as Bletchley park
and listened to them we might be conversing with edy in a
different lingo.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 19, 2020 11:45 PM GMT
Doubtless Johnson will be hoping to tap his inner Turing
to gain an advantage in trade deal negotiations, and
hoping they don't out game him.
Report cryoftruth December 20, 2020 7:49 AM GMT
I actually think we should be more friendly towards Russia. It was an aggressive move by the West bringing Nato up to their revised borders after the fall of the Communist empire. The West needs to be careful not to drive Putin into the arms of China.

Interesting post. After the USSR collapsed I think that Russia was promised that NATO would not advance into former Russian territory and we welshed on that agreement. That meant that Putin and his ex KGB henchmen embarked on a long term strategy to undermine the West and cause as much chaos as possible. They have messed up democratic elections and used chemical weapons in Britain. They helped Brexit and Trump.

Putin is our enemy and is a dangerous tyrannical dictator. We should be very careful with Russia whilst he is still there. Incidentally Putin gives the Tories millions as well. I think this is the reason why Theresa May was not allowed to take serious sanctions against Putin and his pals after the novotchok attacks.
Report cryoftruth December 20, 2020 7:51 AM GMT
The husband of one of the Conservative Party's biggest donors was secretly funded by a Russian oligarch with close ties to President Putin.
Lubov Chernukhin has given £1.7m to the Tories, including paying to spend time with the last three prime ministers.
Leaked files show her husband received $8m (£6.1m). The money initially came from a politician facing US sanctions due to his closeness to the Kremlin.
From the BBC website
Report lfc1971 December 20, 2020 10:31 AM GMT
cryoftruth you’ve got things upside down , again
Report into Russian interference said they tried to influence the Scottish independence ref
( they would like nothing more than to break up the union of course and having an anti British ally)
And also they tried to influence the 2019 election by hacking into and releasing info on government trade talks with the US
This was the source of Corbyns claim that the gov wished to sell off the NHS

Labour have a long and consistent friendship with enemies of the U.K.,  including Russia
Report Whisperingdeath December 20, 2020 11:13 AM GMT
The detail we passed to Russians enabled them to
turn stalingrad,
Report Whisperingdeath December 20, 2020 11:14 AM GMT
What was that btw

Hun to the Sarf West, millions of then, Sah?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 11:17 AM GMT
The details were of German planned movements, but
they couldn't feed them everything as that might
have blown the fact we had enigma cracked.

A delicate operation that proved hugely successful
Report lfc1971 December 20, 2020 11:19 AM GMT
The fat toad Stalin and Russia never ventured out of Russia until the war was won
( apart from when it was in league with Nazi germany )
Report Foinavon December 20, 2020 11:30 AM GMT
After the USSR collapsed I think that Russia was promised that NATO would not advance into former Russian territory and we welshed on that agreement.

I believe you are right CoT. Russia became even more alarmed when the EU started interfering with Ukraine as that country has traditionally been a Russian fiefdom for centuries. They could not risk the loss of their Black sea naval bases and reacted by taking pre-emptive action. We blame Russia but I think the blame is misplaced.
Report lfc1971 December 20, 2020 11:36 AM GMT
What should England do if Scotland votes for independence and threatens Englands security?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 11:59 AM GMT
Letting putin take crimea was akin to letting hitler
take sudetenland

But he hasn't needed do owt else as he has operatives
so we'll placed in nato.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 11:59 AM GMT
Well
Report Foinavon December 20, 2020 12:05 PM GMT
I don't see Scotland threatening our security although if they carry out their plans we would be surrounded by EU territory. Switzerland has been in that position for decades, I don't think they are worried about being invaded other than what happens under Schengen.
Report Whisperingdeath December 20, 2020 1:41 PM GMT
The details were of German planned movements,

Millions of Germans coming to kill you Borris?

Not sure if that sort of information might sway the battle as much as executing your own men and women if they took one step backwards!
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 1:53 PM GMT
Not sure, lol
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 2:04 PM GMT
Have a go at....

https://winstonchurchill.org/publications/finest-hour/finest-hour-150/golden-eggs-the-secret-war-1940-1945-part-ii-intelligence-and-the-eastern-front/

...
Report Whisperingdeath December 20, 2020 2:12 PM GMT
Just funning ya!

Will read that with interest but I am finding it hard to believe the victory at Stalingrad is due to us!
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 2:16 PM GMT
Well in part, mixed again, with bravery of troops
and citizens.
Report Whisperingdeath December 20, 2020 2:18 PM GMT
I have no proof but I was kinda thinking maybe Stalin knew Hitler was coming for him well before the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact!
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 20, 2020 2:26 PM GMT
Having complete pictures of dates, and troop movements
would help confirm them hunches.
Report cryoftruth December 20, 2020 11:54 PM GMT
Foinavon

We do agree that Russia was mistreated after the end of USSR. However whatever the reasons, Putin has made us his enemy. The dosh he and his henchmen have been nicking from Russia has been used to cause as much chaos in the West as possible. Funding the Tories is just another way of trying to cause harm. Whatever the West did at the end of the Cold War to welsh in commitments made to Russia, I see no justification for using chemical weapons here. Putin is an extremist right wing tyrant we need to treat very carefully.
Report edy December 21, 2020 12:40 AM GMT

Dec 20, 2020 -- 5:30AM, Foinavon wrote:


After the USSR collapsed I think that Russia was promised that NATO would not advance into former Russian territory and we welshed on that agreement.I believe you are right CoT. Russia became even more alarmed when the EU started interfering with Ukraine as that country has traditionally been a Russian fiefdom for centuries. They could not risk the loss of their Black sea naval bases and reacted by taking pre-emptive action. We blame Russia but I think the blame is misplaced.


If a country wishes to exercise its sovereign right of choosing strenghtened economic partnership with the EU, and they get invaded for it, then of course the invading country is very much to blame.

Should the EU invade the UK if we think you choose US economic relations over EU economic relations?

Report lfc1971 December 21, 2020 1:36 AM GMT
There is the free and democratic U.K. ( we are named Great Britain, for good reason )  , and then there is Russia
Edy please don’t confuse one with the other .
Report lfc1971 December 21, 2020 1:40 AM GMT
If Scotland proves to be a threat to England’s security ?
Well something would have to be done regarding Scotland
Report edy December 21, 2020 1:51 AM GMT
The EU would be RU in my example and UK would be UA.
Report lfc1971 December 21, 2020 2:00 AM GMT
I know , I changed it a little
Some countries have the right to protect their borders , and some don’t
The most obvious example is Nazi Gernany who didn’t have that right
But the U.K. does
Report lfc1971 December 21, 2020 2:06 AM GMT
If Scotland threatens England’s security?
Well then of course England would have to take action
Of some sort
But you can’t compare England to Russia
Report Whisperingdeath December 21, 2020 11:09 AM GMT
Blighty looking good in its Sovereignty.

We should have just told Johnny Foreigner you don’t tell us you have shut your borders with it. We are shutting g our borders with you!

God save the Queen, send a gunboat!
Report Whisperingdeath December 21, 2020 11:10 AM GMT
We have at least 2 gunboats
Report Foinavon December 21, 2020 2:39 PM GMT
edy21 Dec 20 01:40Joined: 13 Dec 06 | Topic/replies: 238,391 | Blogger: edy's blog
Dec 20, 2020 -- 12:30PM, Foinavon wrote:

After the USSR collapsed I think that Russia was promised that NATO would not advance into former Russian territory and we welshed on that agreement.I believe you are right CoT. Russia became even more alarmed when the EU started interfering with Ukraine as that country has traditionally been a Russian fiefdom for centuries. They could not risk the loss of their Black sea naval bases and reacted by taking pre-emptive action. We blame Russia but I think the blame is misplaced.


If a country wishes to exercise its sovereign right of choosing strenghtened economic partnership with the EU, and they get invaded for it, then of course the invading country is very much to blame.

Should the EU invade the UK if we think you choose US economic relations over EU economic relations?


What with, edy?
It would be interesting observing the logistics of getting an army out of Calais at the moment, we haven't built enough lorry parks let alone tank parks. You could try the rubber dinghy option, there are experts eager to assist on the Dunkirk beaches.
One thing for sure, the Anschluss would be welcomed by our wealthy elites and their perverse lefty remainer acolytes.
I don't think we can count on the Jonathans, they have been standoffish for a century. They like the Irish and the Germans better than us.
Report edy December 21, 2020 2:43 PM GMT
They like the Irish and the Germans better than us.

Can you really hold that against them? Who wouldn't like the Germans better?
Report edy December 21, 2020 2:50 PM GMT
The point regarding the Ukraine. The Ukraine hasn't applied for NATO membership. It hasn't applied for EU membership. Their citizens decided they wanted to try the better offer of the EU for economic partnership.

You can say "Russia felt threatened bla bla bla" to justify their invasion, but I feel like "threat to their security interests" is a very, very wide area in that case. There was no real immediate threat to their security interests. Maybe one day there would have been, who knows. You can create a "threat to security interests" excuse for basically anything another country ever does.

In the same vein, Germany's and the EU's security interests could potentially in one distant day be threatened because having a US or Chinese outpost right next to us could potentially one day be bad news.

Would you be all understanding and say the blame is misplaced if Germany sent all its dinghys and general consensus was "Onto the naughty step with you, Germany!"?
Report edy December 21, 2020 2:52 PM GMT
*sent all its dinghys to the UK...
Report Foinavon December 21, 2020 2:56 PM GMT
cryoftruth
cryoftruth21 Dec 20 00:54Joined: 22 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 5,406 | Blogger: cryoftruth's blog
Foinavon

We do agree that Russia was mistreated after the end of USSR. However whatever the reasons, Putin has made us his enemy. The dosh he and his henchmen have been nicking from Russia has been used to cause as much chaos in the West as possible. Funding the Tories is just another way of trying to cause harm. Whatever the West did at the end of the Cold War to welsh in commitments made to Russia, I see no justification for using chemical weapons here. Putin is an extremist right wing tyrant we need to treat very carefully.


Do you have any evidence of the funding you mention? There are all sorts of dodgy deals going on in the corridors of power but I'm always sceptical of the conspiracy theories we see circulating these days.
Russia has always pursued those whom they consider traitors relentlessly. Putin also includes those who oppose him politically. Not a nice man but there are and have been plenty worse. If we didn't do deals with undesirables, we would deal with no one. China is arguably worse, their human rights record is appalling yet Xi has had tea with the Queen.
Germany is constructing a new pipeline to bring more gas from Russia, shouldn't Merkel also treat him more carefully?
Report Foinavon December 21, 2020 3:06 PM GMT
This will give you a flavour of what goes on.
https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-prison-camp-suspected-locations-maps-2019-11?r=US&IR=T
Report moisok December 21, 2020 3:14 PM GMT
and after sending us a chinese flu experiment what else do they have lined up to disable the western economy  except it doesn't make sense as they own so much of it already and won't have anyone to sell to if they wreck it.

But then like islamic ideology many chinese think of us as a barbaric culture
Report Whisperingdeath December 21, 2020 3:21 PM GMT
Your enemy's enemy is your friend. I thought you'd like the way the Wutan Clan have dealt with their mussies moisy?
Report edy December 21, 2020 3:22 PM GMT

Dec 21, 2020 -- 9:06AM, Foinavon wrote:


This will give you a flavour of what goes on.https://www.businessinsider.com/china-uighur-prison-camp-suspected-locations-maps-2019-11?r=US&IR=T


More reason to send dinghys to the country that has sold almost everything to the Chinese, including parts of its energy infrastructure, and which is led by a man whose family is notorious for loving themselves some China.

Report moisok December 21, 2020 3:24 PM GMT
no that is appalling  - interesting from a callous observer of history like me - the clash of two ideologies - will be most interesting after I am long gone
Report moisok December 21, 2020 3:26 PM GMT
they have large chunks of british companies - just wait till they tell you that you can't have the job coz you don't think correctly

That has already started here anyway - people being sacked for wrongthink and anti wokeness
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