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tanglefoot
25 Nov 20 16:08
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Date Joined: 12 May 12
| Topic/replies: 249,508 | Blogger: tanglefoot's blog
If the U.K. don’t cave on level playing field and fisheries,no deal
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Report politicspunter December 13, 2020 5:42 PM GMT
Lol, it was the ERG (including Boris) that wouldn't support Theresa May. If they had, this farce would have been resolved long ago.
Report irishone December 13, 2020 5:48 PM GMT
The U K cant sink any lower
Bring on the no deal
The only way is up
Report lapsy pa December 13, 2020 5:50 PM GMT
The ERG never supported a "soft" brexit,no deal is their aim, how can you point the finger at May when her own sub party(ERG/DUP) was enough to not give her a majority?
Report Johnny The Guesser December 13, 2020 6:04 PM GMT
There are about 35 or so in the ERG but hundreds in the Labour party who voted against the May deal for differing reasons. The ERG wanted a hard Brexit , the Labour MPs wanted to remain at all costs (despite getting elected on a manifesto pledging to respect the referendum result). Without the Labour remain supporters blocking everything the ERG would have had little influence.
I'm surprised you can't remember all this - It was headline news everyday.
Report politicspunter December 13, 2020 6:07 PM GMT
If the members of Theresa May's party and government had supported her, the deal would have gone through. I am astonished you can't remember this.
Report dave1357 December 13, 2020 6:08 PM GMT
risible argument - almost exactly the same deal was voted through. There is utterly no evidence that May's deal was a "soft brexit".

And of course it was a withdrawal agreement and not a trade agreement. Which it is quite obvious Johnson has no interest in. He has always wanted no trade deal.
Report lapsy pa December 13, 2020 6:08 PM GMT
Aren't Labour "the opposition" and shouldn't the tory party be voting as one?
Report rock piper December 13, 2020 6:11 PM GMT
Exactly 1st tp - Remainers refused to accept the referendum result , couldn't bring themselves to vote through the 'soft' Brexit proposed by May. They just didn't want any Brexit at all - anything would do , 2nd referendum , general election , or just general chaos ? So here we are - hard Brexit on the way.
Be careful what you wish for has never been so true.


It is the Brexiters failure to own their own project and capacity for self-delusion that guaranteed the failure of the project.
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2020 6:15 PM GMT
anyway i,m getting confused and need some advice am i
a, stockpiling because of a possible 3rd lockdown

b,panic buying because of a no deal brexit

c,panic buying xmas shop because supermarkets are shut for 24 hrs on xmas day,

LaughLaugh
Report A_T December 13, 2020 6:17 PM GMT
if there is no deal Johnson's not going to hang around to govern the consequences
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 6:27 PM GMT
The telegraph reckon the tories are planning an
emergency budget in case of no deal

Maybe they can invite George Osborne to assist Rishi

Project fact?
Report Johnny The Guesser December 13, 2020 6:36 PM GMT
Dave - I dealt with that point earlier.
Rock Piper - I think you will find that the Brexiteers have in fact won , and the hard Brexiteers have almost won.  How can you judge that the project has failed ? It hasn't even started yet.
Lapsy - I repeat , the Labour MPs were elected on a manifesto of supporting the referendum result , then changed their minds. The people didn't forget the next time around.

Am I the only one that remembers all this ? It was only last year.
Report edy December 13, 2020 6:44 PM GMT

Dec 13, 2020 -- 12:04PM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


There are about 35 or so in the ERG but hundreds in the Labour party who voted against the May deal for differing reasons. The ERG wanted a hard Brexit , the Labour MPs wanted to remain at all costs (despite getting elected on a manifesto pledging to respect the referendum result). Without the Labour remain supporters blocking everything the ERG would have had little influence.I'm surprised you can't remember all this - It was headline news everyday.


You can't expect the opposition to just sign off on whatever you negotiated with you having had involved them. Gotta at least throw them some bones so they can sell it as a win to their voters. Still, I'm pretty sure MV4 would've gone through with the help of Labour rebels.

That's why the radical Brexiter Tories made sure to get rid of May just when there was a realistic threat of her getting her deal through.

Report edy December 13, 2020 6:44 PM GMT
*without you having had involved them.
Report politicspunter December 13, 2020 6:45 PM GMT
Guesser, surely you don't think Labour were the government? That's the only reason I can think of for you thinking that Labour votes mean anything. They were irrelevant.
Report scandanavian_haven December 13, 2020 6:47 PM GMT
what's the latest with the fish, is there going to be  fish war at noon tomorrow
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 7:09 PM GMT
Fish war?

https://youtu.be/YLdK9zaLaG8
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2020 7:29 PM GMT
the latest tory wheeze been spread by the useful tory idiots,andrew bridge,iain dale etc
is that tariffs are ok because
the uk government can put tariffs [ taxes ]on importers and use the money to give to farmers etc, LOL

the tariffs are paid by us the consumer in hire prices,
so these loons think we pay the tariffs on imports in higher prices so the government can use the extra taxes[ tariffs ] to subsidise the farmers,
hello we already subsidise the farmers through the EU without me paying 25/50% higher prices on goods, LOL LaughLaugh,

you,d think people so ignorant of how tariffs work would  just shut the fooook up rather than go on live tv spewing this shoite out, they,ll be on next week showing messi how to kick a ball properly
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 7:37 PM GMT
The higher the cost the higher the tariffs and the more money for U.K. , cheers
Report lapsy pa December 13, 2020 7:45 PM GMT
lol, who pays both ways lfc?,yes the consumer, whether it is Jose from Spain or Mr Smith from Croydon.
They might decide not to pay,too dear,then job losses, ya have some kick in the bollix coming.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 7:50 PM GMT
Lapsy pa , if the EU wish to sell into the U.K. they will have to be competitive with the U.K. home market and the rest of the world
That’s a problem for them
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2020 7:51 PM GMT
why do the right think its ok for consumers to pick up the tab for tariffs [ taxes] but if you mention puting vat up for example they wet themselves stiffling business,consumers etc
tariffs are taxes passed on to the consumer nothing more
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 7:55 PM GMT
It’s very simple ist poster . Taxes raised in the U.K. are spent in the UK for the benefit of U.K. people
Anything that you choose to buy from abroad is money leaving the country
That of course is your choice
Don’t expect me to worry about what you choose to pay for it
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 7:58 PM GMT
Unless of course we work on just in time supply chain across borders

In which case multiple tariffs will be applied and business simply folds
Report lapsy pa December 13, 2020 7:59 PM GMT
Turn around your last statement Lfc and put the UK in instead of EU,they will obviously be applicable.
All the big companies are nearly EU,kraft,kelloggs,heinz, cadburys,dolmio etc etc, so expect them up for starters, sub them with your own if able,up in price and lack of choice that is what you are cheering on.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:00 PM GMT
I wonder where these idiots think the money we pay the EU comes from? We only get some of it back to subsidise farmers. Best cut out the middle-man.
Report lapsy pa December 13, 2020 8:01 PM GMT
Cut the farmers out altogether Foinavon i think the plan is.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:01 PM GMT
Just in time ? Look at it this way . Products from China and N Zealand arrive just in time and
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 8:01 PM GMT
Lol foinavon have you been on the weed?
Report Wallflower December 13, 2020 8:02 PM GMT
Simple equation.

Tariffs on UK goods = less exports means less jobs =  equals less revenue (tax)  = less investment.


Why do you think countries look for trade deals?  EU is 40 % of UK trade, UK is 8% of total EU trade.

Who has got a problem?   (In addition the EU has already replaced the value of UK trade since referendumShocked).

lfc - this has real world implications, I've seen it first-hand, people very teary-eyed and angry.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 8:02 PM GMT
..

https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1337068146293956614?s=19
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:03 PM GMT
This is how it works , if something takes 12 hrs to arrive in UK from China
I’m sure it will take no more than 12 hrs from Germany
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:03 PM GMT
I don't think so lapsy, and by the way, I wasn't including you amongst the idiots, quite the opposite, but I think you knew that already.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:05 PM GMT
Wallflower the vast majority of U.K. trade is for the hone market
That’s paramount , not tariffs
Report Wallflower December 13, 2020 8:06 PM GMT
Foinavon 13 Dec 20 21:00 
I wonder where these idiots think the money we pay the EU comes from? We only get some of it back to subsidise farmers. Best cut out the middle-man.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

plus investment in poorer regions. 9 of the 10 poorest towns/regions in N.Europe which receive special investment are in UK !

..... and what price free access to worlds largest market? and the jobs and revenue this creates.

UK just never understood the EU.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:07 PM GMT
No weed here, yhtl, not even in the flower beds.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:07 PM GMT
Tariffs are a minor part of a minor part of overall trade
Report Wallflower December 13, 2020 8:09 PM GMT
lfc1971 13 Dec 20 21:05 
Wallflower the vast majority of U.K. trade is for the hone market
That’s paramount , not tariffs
-------------------------------------------------------------------

fair enough, you have a point there - hairdressers, kebab shops and tatoo parlours will be relatively unaffected.
Report lapsy pa December 13, 2020 8:09 PM GMT
Thanks Foinavon, i am nearly sure farmers subsidies are being phased out in a few years,UK paying them for a year/2,then 50% and then ziltch, i stand to be corrected as on memory.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:10 PM GMT
We import a lot more than we sell to them, what price access to our market? The biggest losers will be EU farmers as their produce can be easily replaced fro elsewhere. We pay the EU far more than we get back, better to cut out the middle man.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:11 PM GMT
I can’t recall the exact figures, but the internal market accounts for something between 75 / 80% of all trade
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:13 PM GMT
Recording of Queen's Christmas speech reportedly delayed by Brexit impasse
Buckingham Palace does not deny suggestion the doubt over a deal has caused postponement


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/13/queen-is-reportedly-delaying-recording-christmas-speech-due-to-brexit-uncertainty

Why not just do two recordings, each praising how it was exactly the right choice to do a deal or no-deal respectively, like any respectable public figure would? Two recordings that describe each distinctive way as a brilliant choice to lead the UK to ever new glories.
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:16 PM GMT

Dec 13, 2020 -- 2:10PM, Foinavon wrote:


We import a lot more than we sell to them, what price access to our market? The biggest losers will be EU farmers as their produce can be easily replaced fro elsewhere. We pay the EU far more than we get back, better to cut out the middle man.


You get access to a brilliant workforce and financial passporting and stuff.

#Priceless

...or at least worth far more than your puny net contributions to the budget. The UK never understood this. Just looked at the, at first sight, somewhat biggish looking number to mere mortals, without looking at all the stuff it gets you.

Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:16 PM GMT
I don't know what the plan is for future years but if tariffs are introduced they will be protected to some degree from subsidised EU farming.
Report Wallflower December 13, 2020 8:17 PM GMT
Foinavon 13 Dec 20 21:10 
We import a lot more than we sell to them, what price access to our market?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This nonsense has never been put to bed properly.   "We" / "Them".  When we say "them" you need to divide or multiply by 27 to assess the actual impact per country.  We are NOT the sovereign or economic equal of the EU, we are the sovereign equal of each of its members.

The price is access to the fish and play by same rules as the members. Its a great deal - no other country has got that, but all our bellicose bullsh1t has made it impossible to accept it.

Integrity of the single market  ie. same rules fro everyone is paramount - trade with UK is not remotely as important as that to the EU - as we have seen. This will never change. We are not special.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 8:18 PM GMT
It's staggering the amount of folk making fools
of themselves parroting Johnson Farage Rees mugg type
slogans.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:19 PM GMT
As long as I know Queen Elizabeth is in her palace
Then I know everything is well in Britain
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:19 PM GMT
Also get access to an army of bureaucrats that take away a lot of the trouble of having to come up with regulations on the bendiness of bananas or negotiate tough, innovative, state-of-the-art trade deals.
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2020 8:20 PM GMT
now i am confused the great brexit dividend according to the brexit loons was been agile fast without the EU to negotiate FTA,S all around the world ,now we,re told tariffs dont matter ,not worth worrying about,
so we dont need deals with usa/eu.china/india/canada/ just carry on wto ,roll over deals  from eu.
the brexit loons are tying themselves in knots on an hourly basis
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:22 PM GMT
I've met some lovely members of the brilliant EU workforce, many have decided to stay.
There's a quaint old Eastern European lady who sits outside of Lidl with a tin mug wishing everyone a good day. I don't think she's going home.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:23 PM GMT
That’s correct ist poster , we don’t need any deals
With any country .
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:25 PM GMT
It is us and them now, "they" have made it quite clear.
Our imports aren't evenly divided amongst 27, not at all. Most of the 27 are tiddlers.
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:25 PM GMT
What's most important though: As a member of the EU, you always get access to an easy scapegoat or enemy to deflect to.

Want to deflect from you destroying the judiciary? -> Say the EU is woke and wants to destroy you
Need someone to blame for your own domestic policies that left entire regions behind? -> Blame the EU
Need to blame someone for you doing the WTO regulations on bendy bananas? -> Blame the EU
Need a scapegoat for you wanting a cheap workforce? -> Blame free movement

The Tory Brexiters are going to look so silly when they have to own up to their decisions having been responsible for why many people in the UK feel left behind.
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:26 PM GMT
Though with the way things are going, they will end up blaming antifa for the destruction of unions and manufacturing.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:28 PM GMT
I blame the EU for everything except Covid for which I blame China. After Jan 1st I will blame Johnson and any remoaners who are still moaning.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:28 PM GMT
Lol
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 8:29 PM GMT
So we should just whack 1000% tariffs on everybody?
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:30 PM GMT
Quite right foinavon , first know your enemy
If the last 4 years have taught us anything it has taught us that
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:31 PM GMT
Biden better modify his tone , or he’s on the list next
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:31 PM GMT
Know your enemy is a classic radical leftist antifa phrase - see Rage Against the Machine and Green Day.
Report Wallflower December 13, 2020 8:33 PM GMT
Foinavon 13 Dec 20 21:25 
It is us and them now, "they" have made it quite clear.
Our imports aren't evenly divided amongst 27, not at all. Most of the 27 are tiddlers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But still 27..... that's the point.  Outside of Ireland and maybe Netherlands and Denmark the others don't really give a sh1t.....and even among those that do the prevailing sentiment is quicker we leave the better, good riddance, just fed-up listening to what we are actually famous for ...... whinging.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:33 PM GMT
We don’t wish to hear anymore tripe from him about the Irish
For a start . Or anything else really
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:35 PM GMT
I don't read such revolutionary nonsense, I drew the line at Karl Marx who was a rather turgid read. He was German you know but he liked it here so much he never went away.
Report lfc1971 December 13, 2020 8:39 PM GMT
I much preferred Groucho
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:40 PM GMT
Me too Laugh
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:41 PM GMT
Did you know Karl May was a bit of a conman?
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:41 PM GMT
No relation to Theresa May (from what I know)
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:43 PM GMT
Not to worry Wallflower, the wee serpent will take you back to rejoin your old pals afore long.
Report politicspunter December 13, 2020 8:44 PM GMT
Apparently Boris spoke on the phone to Nicola Sturgeon after his cabinet meeting. The story goes that if Nicola allows EU fishing access in Scottish part of UK waters for a two year transition period, Boris will allow indyref2 if a majority vote for independence parties in next years Holyrood election. Apparently this was discussed with Ursula in Boris earlier call.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:46 PM GMT
I haven't read any of his books, edy, not in print here I don't think. Are they any good?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 8:48 PM GMT
If Boris has given his word,... Oh hang on.. LaughLaugh
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:48 PM GMT
Seems fair enough if that's what the Scots want. I'm sure some will object if it comes about, I can think of one or two who will be furious already.
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:49 PM GMT
Dunno, haven't read any of them.
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:50 PM GMT
Sturgeon should've negotiated with Boris that the Tories stop giving away the vast majority of current Scottish fishing rights to rich families instead of reserving more of this public ressource for...the public.
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:52 PM GMT
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/

somewhat related
Report edy December 13, 2020 8:57 PM GMT
Which kind of blends in with the earlier theme of the EU being a perfect scapegoat for domestic management to the detriment of the little man.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:58 PM GMT
Is it true that a certain well-known tyrant was a fan of Karl May? There appears to be some dispute.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 8:59 PM GMT
I won't be reading any of them if it is.
Report edy December 13, 2020 9:06 PM GMT
Don't recall ever hearing about Merkel being big on Karl May. Most of his work was officially forbidden for much of the GDR's existence.
Report politicspunter December 13, 2020 9:08 PM GMT
Money has been tanking onto Smarkets "Year of next Scottish Referendum" market all evening. Year 2021 was 14.0 then 12.5 then 10.5 then 6.2...
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 9:11 PM GMT
I wasn't thinking of Merkel. I found this article in DW and was curious.
https://www.dw.com/en/who-was-karl-may-facts-and-myths-surrounding-the-creator-of-winnetou/a-37675272
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 13, 2020 9:26 PM GMT
How long does it take to set up a referendum?

2021 would seem very short notice.

2025 or later around evs on here

Maybe we should give it a thread of its own?
Report edy December 13, 2020 9:27 PM GMT
Oh...there simply are too many German tyrants to choose from.
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2020 9:48 PM GMT
think i heard germany exports 6% to eu
uk 43%
so your right germany,s a tiddler,
think france was 4
uk still 43
Report 1st time poster December 13, 2020 9:49 PM GMT
eu,s exports are 8% of their total exports
uk still 43
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 9:52 PM GMT
I didn't mention nationality, I thought he was Austrian. What is it about Austria? Nothing but trouble.
Report Foinavon December 13, 2020 9:55 PM GMT
Angel isn't a tyrant, she's lovely but I suspect Ursula could become a little dictatorial given time.
Report Whisperingdeath December 14, 2020 10:33 AM GMT
Question is then Foinavon do you fancy Ursula more than Preety?
Report Foinavon December 14, 2020 11:12 AM GMT
I don't fancy Ursula at all, too robotic.
Priti is something else, I imagine she likes to keep a firm grip. Definitely my type.
Report edy December 14, 2020 12:00 PM GMT
Heard Patel is portrayed as a bit of a domina on Spitting Image at times.
Report Whisperingdeath December 14, 2020 12:34 PM GMT
I imagine them both in Waffen uniforms. That's all I got to say 'bout that mmm. There is more than meets the eye with the robot you know.
Report edy December 14, 2020 12:47 PM GMT
Von der Leyen can't be too woeful if someone was willing to make an entire Rugby 7s team with her, can she?
Report 1st time poster December 14, 2020 1:42 PM GMT
after china say no nice to see the french stepping up to the mark to build us sovereign uk a nuclear power station,who need johnny foreigner egh,gives the uk public time to concentrate on building their allotments
Report Whisperingdeath December 16, 2020 2:54 PM GMT
Sovereignty is important but we mustn't upset the Chinese
Report dave1357 December 16, 2020 2:57 PM GMT
Is johnson Kampagnola?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWgg20IqibM
Report Wallflower December 16, 2020 4:55 PM GMT
The real trick will be get a form of words that fool the hard Brexit nutjobs. Though I'm bit confused about whether it has / hasn't to go through parliament...... maybe they can just be ignored, I'm not sure.

We need to adhere to level playing field - so that wording needs to be changed. "EU backdown on level playing field as EU accepts UK smooth differentiation" or some fudge along those lines.   (ie we follow the rules, we can of course diverge, but we never will, not to mention having no say in those rules).

Then the nonsensical fish issue  -  "EU will retreat from our seas...... when we have enough boats".   (ie. never).


Lets see.
Report lapsy pa December 16, 2020 6:49 PM GMT
Sevington underwater,queues in Kent everyday,ports no containers and can't cope,nothing in place re customs.
What have they taken the EU for?
Report unitedbiscuits December 16, 2020 7:04 PM GMT
lapsy pa : - how much is Apple 12 pro max in Ireland please?
Report lapsy pa December 16, 2020 7:17 PM GMT
Hello UB,googling it from 1160E to 1600E, i know brother got a decent laptop and it was cheaper in Ireland than UK despite currency.
Report unitedbiscuits December 16, 2020 7:31 PM GMT
Thank you lapsy pa. Broadly in line, bit more expensive here.
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