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Wrong Hole Poker
31 Oct 20 12:59
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Date Joined: 23 Jan 10
| Topic/replies: 448 | Blogger: Wrong Hole Poker's blog
That all that is gained from social distancing, sanitising, lockdowns etc is lost by children going to school and spreading the virus like wildfire.
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Report Charlie November 1, 2020 4:53 PM GMT
Johnny The Guesser • November 1, 2020 4:25 PM GMT
My "theories" don't include a national lockdown , we did that over the summer and we are back at the start.

If the old and vulnerable are getting ill and potentially overwhelming the NHS , then the old and vulnerable need to remove themselves from danger for a while by staying in.


Nice to see you're compassionate about the few remaining veterans who fought in WW2 and the people who looked after the tens of thousand injured. Nice to see you're caring about those injured in the Falklands who are vulnerable along those injured who fought in Iraq and Iran who are also vulnerable. Just lock them up eh. They don't count I suppose as long as you can go to the pub and get bladdered.
Report saddo November 1, 2020 4:53 PM GMT
Are you suggesting all 12m would die without locking us all up dave? Sounds a bit unlikely.
Report dave1357 November 1, 2020 4:54 PM GMT
I'm suggesting that that dpm doesn't care whether they die or not.
Report dave1357 November 1, 2020 4:56 PM GMT
And I'm pretty sure that the reason we are back in this situation is because of people like dpm and johnny.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 5:00 PM GMT
people like dpm and Johnny and
the "news outlets" they watch and
parrot on here.
Report edy November 1, 2020 5:02 PM GMT
You know why Sweden did quite well? There, the esoteric cringe-righters around the Sweden Democrats wanted a tougher lockdown, unlike the western cringe-righters that purposefully coughed on people.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:15 PM GMT
Charlie - Are you really suggesting that the whole country should be locked down to somehow weirdly protect the handful of people you list ?

Surely the type of people you describe are already locking themselves down ?  Should the rest of country be made to join them to somehow make them feel better ?

It's complete nonsense.
Report dpm November 1, 2020 5:15 PM GMT
People get old, they get ill and they die, it's been happening a long time. The Wokes don't like it.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:19 PM GMT
0000s are losing jobs , businesses , homes,  livelihoods . Youngsters are having their education blighted.

Are you too blind to see this ?
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:19 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 11:15AM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


Charlie - Are you really suggesting that the whole country should be locked down to somehow weirdly protect the handful of people you list ?Surely the type of people you describe are already locking themselves down ?

Report edy November 1, 2020 5:19 PM GMT
Only Wokes like their grandmas? Sad
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:20 PM GMT
No I'm saying there are more people to consider that just the "mixed" families we discussed the other day. This handful of people run into millions.
Report saddo November 1, 2020 5:22 PM GMT
Careful dave, the Guardian mob were all over me for suggesting that some people don't care if others die.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:22 PM GMT
Lockdown 20 million (your number)  or 63 million ? 

Neither are good choices , but one is far better than the other.
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:24 PM GMT
Nobody is locking down 63 million. Have you actually read what the constraints are? I'd have gone much further.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 5:24 PM GMT
0000s are losing jobs , businesses , homes,  livelihoods . Youngsters are having their education blighted

All this will be worse if virus takes hold kills more, closes hospitals to everyone...

Are you too blind to see this
Report Timber November 1, 2020 5:25 PM GMT
Most old people don't want to be locked down. They are willing to take the risk, and it's a small risk at that
Report dave1357 November 1, 2020 5:26 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 11:19AM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


0000s are losing jobs , businesses , homes,

Report dave1357 November 1, 2020 5:26 PM GMT
f-ck off that was a long post
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:27 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 11:25AM, Timber wrote:


Most old people don't want to be locked down. They are willing to take the risk, and it's a small risk at that


Says who plank?

Report dave1357 November 1, 2020 5:28 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 11:25AM, Timber wrote:


Most old people don't want to be locked down. They are willing to take the risk, and it's a small risk at that


Fine, if they also refuse any medical assistance on catching covid, these "risk takers" can do what they like.

Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:28 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 6:36AM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


Don't be dumb - The Government analyse the previous hospital admissions - age , other health conditions etc , and issue them for us all to read.The Government then issue general advice to the country as a whole, based on the above - "if you fall into the high risk categories we advise you to completely self isolate" - It is up to the individual to then self assess their own level of risk (as is happening now no doubt).The low risk people can carry on with their lives , BUT taking normal sensible risk precautions (as we have been doing).Deaths minimised , hospital admissions minimised , and the economy keeps moving.


I've been through all this already.

Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:30 PM GMT
One further point - If the economy is trashed - How do we pay for the NHS going forward ?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 5:30 PM GMT
Same old whack job "news outlet"
speel being spewed onto the forum
by more and more woke covidiots fearful
of missing their trolling at bookies and down the pub...
Report 1st time poster November 1, 2020 5:30 PM GMT
imagine spending all your life as a scientist in the background trying to perform a public service and the  bloke the right wingers wheel out to rubbish you,is a serial liar who lied on his CV, LaughLaugh
Report Timber November 1, 2020 5:30 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 11:27AM, Charlie wrote:


Nov  1, 2020 --  6:25PM, Timber wrote:Most old people don't want to be locked down. They are willing to take the risk, and it's a small risk at thatSays who plank?


All old people who aren't scared of their shadows

Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:31 PM GMT
YHTL - You add nothing to the debate with your meaningless contributions.
Report frog1000 November 1, 2020 5:31 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 11:22AM, Johnny The Guesser wrote:


Lockdown 20 million (your number)

Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:32 PM GMT
JTG
Not sure who that was addressed to but I'll field it. If most people had adhered to sensible advice then we wouldn't be back here again the problem is they don't.
Report frog1000 November 1, 2020 5:32 PM GMT
Just lost a whole reply. What a useless forum.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 5:33 PM GMT
One further point - If the economy is trashed - How do we pay for the NHS going forward

Indeed, and not locking down will trash the economy

It's like you havnt
switched on the occasional correct guess function today

Just wrong guesses on this thread
Report lapsy pa November 1, 2020 5:33 PM GMT
If they left things as were/are and had the predicted 2-4k deaths every day how can you honestly think the economy is going to function?
Won't that alone be attributable to health(other0 and mental welfare?
It isn't a "lockdown" per se,tougher restrictions alright,schools,manufacturing,construction and other work continuing.
Bite the bullet for a few weeks and don't have the shame of allowing the higher deaths to materialise.
Late,but at least it is done.
Report 1st time poster November 1, 2020 5:33 PM GMT
scared of dying,or scared of someone in your family dying as compared to **** yourself about paying a few more pence in income tax, LaughLaugh
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:34 PM GMT
plank
All old people who aren't scared of their shadows

So how many people have you polled on this?
Report frog1000 November 1, 2020 5:35 PM GMT
In short, this is not a lockdown.

Delivery drivers, construction workers, care workers, factory workers, hospital workers, teachers, students etc will carry on as before.

Retired people, middle class office workers and those on the shielding list can stay home.

It is basically a mass shielding process disguised as lockdown.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:36 PM GMT
Would deaths be lower or higher if the old and sick locked themselves away properly for a month or two ?

Let's start with that ?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 5:38 PM GMT
Err they were higher in first lockdown

Locking up old folk, or in other words mass slaughter, didn't work.

Still, government never tested them so they ain't being counted.

Except by their friends and families and ons
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:39 PM GMT
What does the majority of heathy under 40 year olds need shielding from exactly ?
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:39 PM GMT
Most old and sick are locked away. People who look after them are not. People who don't give a sh!t aren't and spread the virus to people who look after the old and sick. Who spread the virus to the old and sick.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:42 PM GMT
OK - I can run with that ..so the people who look after the old and vulnerable need to take extra care, which I'm sure they do anyway.
Report Timber November 1, 2020 5:43 PM GMT
Proper Charlie, 19,999,999
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:43 PM GMT
But they don't that is the problem. They think I'm all right Jack so fck you.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:43 PM GMT
Remember the young and fit still have rules to abide by , social distancing , masks etc . I'm not advocating a free for all.
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:44 PM GMT
I'll rephrase that as it was wrong. It's the people who don't look after the vulnerable who are the problem.
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:45 PM GMT
Why do you think the virus spreads JSG?
Report Timber November 1, 2020 5:45 PM GMT
Filthy mangy old masks being adjusted all the time, that's working out well isn't it.
People are touching their face more than ever
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:45 PM GMT
Well if the idiots are behaving like that, then all the more reason to advise the old and vulnerable to put themselves in a safer position.
Report saddo November 1, 2020 5:49 PM GMT
The irony of donny repeatedly criticising people for parroting spiel from dubious news outlets  Laugh
Report lapsy pa November 1, 2020 5:49 PM GMT
It is a virulent virus.

Courtesy of "El Pais";

Studies done in a bar/restaurant with 15 people and 1 initial person infected.

After 4 hours,no measures
14/15 are infected.
With masks,8/15 are infected
With masks,ventilation and duration 2 hours, 1/15 infected.

It is a basterd virus
Report dave1357 November 1, 2020 5:49 PM GMT
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54769055
Bristol illegal rave attended by 700 people

This is why the virus is spreading. If people are losing their jobs, people like this are who to blame. When the NHS is overwhelmed and a relative can't be treated, people like this are to blame,
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:49 PM GMT
I'll answer your question with a question which I think is a more relevant question ...

Why are the old and vulnerable dying ?  How and where are they catching the virus ?
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:53 PM GMT
JTG (not JSG as I posted, apologies)
You don't seem to get the virus chain. Many people don't care - those who need the pub, gym, hair dressers, tattoos, disco's, etc - and there are a lot of students like that . These have a good time with relatively little risk (at the moment) who spread it to people who look after carers who spread it the vulnerable.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 5:54 PM GMT
If 10,000 25 year olds get the virus and are sick in bed for a few days the does that really matter much ?

Keeping the infected 25 year olds from giving the virus to the old and vulnerable is the issue. The safest place for them is in their own homes  away from other people.
Report saddo November 1, 2020 5:55 PM GMT
Just seen em vox popping people in Sheffield about the lockdown. One chap said 'if it's gonna get rid of it, it's a good thing'.
It's not 'gonna get rid of it', how uninformed are people?
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 5:58 PM GMT
Johnny The Guesser • November 1, 2020 5:54 PM GMT
If 10,000 25 year olds get the virus and are sick in bed for a few days the does that really matter much ?

Keeping the infected 25 year olds from giving the virus to the old and vulnerable is the issue. The safest place for them is in their own homes  away from other people.


You are not getting my argument or are refusing to. Who is going to look after the vulnerable? Then who is looking after the people looking after the vulnerable?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 6:01 PM GMT
Shouty man says he's cleverer than a vox pop
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 6:02 PM GMT
I'll try my best to simplify it: A infects B, B infects C, and C dies.
Report Timber November 1, 2020 6:04 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 12:02PM, Charlie wrote:


I'll try my best to simplify it: A infects B, B infects C, and C dies.


20 odd million dead in no time using that amazing example

Report Charlie November 1, 2020 6:06 PM GMT
Come on then plank give us you wisdom.
Report frog1000 November 1, 2020 6:06 PM GMT
The vulnerable is clearly not just one group.

Those who can stay home and look after themselves should do so. Others can bring them supplies at very little risk.

Carehomes is different issue. Workers not moving to carehome to carehome. Rapid testing for workers or even spending money on having more workers living in. Rapid testing for visitors could also be a game changer.

Like it or not we know who is vulnerable and all resources should go to protecting them.

National lockdowns are a blunt costly tool.

The government knew all this months ago but sleep walked into not having a proper protection plan.
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 6:06 PM GMT
your not you
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 6:09 PM GMT
Charlie - I do understand that.

There is no prefect solution with zero risk for everybody or indeed anybody, but there needs to be a more balanced approach between health and the economy.

They old and vulnerable surely already know that are at higher risk.

Carers  have a duty to behave sensibly (as is now), regular testing , PPE , minimising outside social contact, and importantly minimising contact with the person they are supporting. All things that they should be doing now anyway.

The old and vulnerable should be advised to take extra specific precautions as well - Basically staying in . (Obviously daily walks etc allowed with partner , but no shopping/ social stuff)
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 6:15 PM GMT
Johnny The Guesser • November 1, 2020 6:09 PM GMT
Charlie - I do understand that.

There is no prefect solution with zero risk for everybody or indeed anybody, but there needs to be a more balanced approach between health and the economy.

They old and vulnerable surely already know that are at higher risk.

Carers  have a duty to behave sensibly (as is now), regular testing , PPE , minimising outside social contact, and importantly minimising contact with the person they are supporting. All things that they should be doing now anyway.

The old and vulnerable should be advised to take extra specific precautions as well - Basically staying in . (Obviously daily walks etc allowed with partner , but no shopping/ social stuff)


I do see a softening of your earlier posts which I applaud.

There is no prefect solution with zero risk for everybody or indeed anybody, but there needs to be a more balanced approach between health and the economy.

Entirely agree but which way do you go, health or economy?
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 6:17 PM GMT
I'll answer that in advance. Without health there is no economy.
Report Johnny The Guesser November 1, 2020 6:17 PM GMT
Without the economy there in no health.
Report Charlie November 1, 2020 6:20 PM GMT
The way Sunak is going no economy and no health.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 1, 2020 6:21 PM GMT
Fix test track and trace

No lockdown, little virus

Not rocket science.


No test track and trace =
control virus growth via lockdowns.
Report 1st time poster November 1, 2020 6:47 PM GMT
IF YOUR HEALTHY YOUR WEALTHY , Wink
Report dukeofpuke November 1, 2020 11:06 PM GMT

Nov 1, 2020 -- 12:21PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:


Fix test track and traceNo lockdown, little virusNot rocket science. No test track and trace =control virus growth via lockdowns.


we've spent 12 billion and its failed big time

in my head 60 billion would still fail

but people like you going around the streets 24-7 with uzi sub machines guns it would work

Report nineteen points November 2, 2020 2:19 PM GMT
how about just stop being frightened and panicing about a flu that was worse 2 years ago and we never batted a eye.
Report Timber November 2, 2020 2:35 PM GMT
You can't fix track and trace unless you take away people's liberties.
Laws would have to be repealed.
In Asia such laws were passed years ago as they were petrified
Report Timber November 2, 2020 2:36 PM GMT
Effectively I should add
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 2:40 PM GMT
most people have evidence or a good idea how flu effects your body, no one no,s how covid effects an individual till they get it,
most 55 yr old plus would agree to catching flu,how many would volunteer to catch covid
Report edy November 2, 2020 2:54 PM GMT

Nov 2, 2020 -- 8:19AM, nineteen points wrote:


how about just stop being frightened and panicing about a flu that was worse 2 years ago and we never batted a eye.


Stop your irrational fear of masks being the first step towards some lunacy distopia you freely thought of when you freely read it on some website or freely saw it on YouTube and we'll talk.

Report nineteen points November 2, 2020 3:35 PM GMT
i wore a mask for a large part of my working life.i know their effectiveness,or lack of. that is why i feel i can comment.have you had similar experience?
Report edy November 2, 2020 3:57 PM GMT
Nope, I do not.

Did you wear them for reasons of reducing the spread of nasty things that come out of your body?

Did you tell your boss or the work&safety department to get lost with their masks?

Also, if you know so much about masks and their ineffectiveness....why is all you ever say your "more lockdowns, more masks, more cases"? Why did you falsely claim they are the perfect reproduction ground for viruses?
Report edy November 2, 2020 3:59 PM GMT
Arguing that masks are ineffective is also one thing, another thing is to argue that The-Powers-That-Be are introducing them to enslave us in preparation for their dystopian future.
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:08 PM GMT
in commons early november in the midst of a pandemic anmd a tory mp wetting himself about out door tennis been banned
if i were joihnson i,d make an exception and make this loon play every day for 8 hrs till easter
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:13 PM GMT
another tory wetting himself about outdoor tennis and golf in november,force the koont out everyday looking for lost golf balls
what planet are these kooonts on
Report nineteen points November 2, 2020 4:19 PM GMT
edy ask yourself why in april were masks deemed of no use whatsoever by the ones who's science we follow?
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:21 PM GMT
the only hole getting played on a regular  basis in middle of november is the 19th hole and thats foooking shut
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:24 PM GMT
my memories fading but how many mental nurses did the tory,s make available to their 4 million unemployed and the miners they spent 12 months beating the shoite out of
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:26 PM GMT
that sammy wilsons a cheeky koont laying in to doris , 3 weeks after his leader activated a tough lockdown in ireland
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:28 PM GMT
now a tory fighting on a hill for outdoor swimming in november,are these foooking tory mp,s for real or mentally insane
Report lapsy pa November 2, 2020 4:29 PM GMT
Sunburnt was pictured on Londons tube without his mask,another flat earher attitude and it shows in the amount of cases in the North of Ireland.
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:33 PM GMT
just to put on the record any right wing forum wacko,s knocking on my door during november ,asking me to go for
a round of golf
a game of outside tennis
an outdoor swim

will be met with some fine upstanding anglo saxon expletives, LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report nineteen points November 2, 2020 4:33 PM GMT
off with his head!
Report edy November 2, 2020 4:34 PM GMT

Nov 2, 2020 -- 10:19AM, nineteen points wrote:


edy ask yourself why in april were masks deemed of no use whatsoever by the ones who's science we follow?


I'll ask myself that once you've answered the questions in my post 3:57 and 3:59 posts.

Report edy November 2, 2020 4:34 PM GMT
Questions in the 3:57 pm post. 3:59 was just a statement.
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:40 PM GMT
we,ve reached a certain level when bernard jenkin is the voice of reason
despite 24/7 verbal shoite no one has come up with semblance of a plan to avoid hospitals been over run

other than lets hope their not
Report peckerdunne November 2, 2020 4:43 PM GMT
Edy, your name is being said to have reported Grant.Others named are denying accusations.
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 4:50 PM GMT
doris must fel like i do on here,trying to explain to thicko tory right winger,s how hospitals getting overwhelmed stops the vrey people they want treating ,getting treated
whats is it with this equation,surely one of the easiest equations in history to get your head around,that some people either cant or dont want to grasp,
it really does baffle me make my head hurt
Report edy November 2, 2020 4:58 PM GMT

Nov 2, 2020 -- 10:43AM, peckerdunne wrote:


Edy, your name is being said to have reported Grant.Others named are denying accusations.


"to anyone else" Laugh

Report peckerdunne November 2, 2020 4:59 PM GMT
yes, as i pointed out...Laugh
Report 1st time poster November 2, 2020 5:15 PM GMT
charles walker says the british oublic will never forget criminalising meeting your grandkids

what part of 74% of public agree with johnsons lockdown,is he struggling to process
Report Fatslogger November 2, 2020 9:09 PM GMT

Nov 2, 2020 -- 10:50AM, 1st time poster wrote:


doris must fel like i do on here,trying to explain to thicko tory right winger,s how hospitals getting overwhelmed stops the vrey people they want treating ,getting treatedwhats is it with this equation,surely one of the easiest equations in history to get your head around,that some people either cant or dont want to grasp,it really does baffle me make my head hurt


It’s one of a number of blind spots. I actually think there’s a case to be made against some of the harsher restrictions, although not one I’d ultimately agree with. Instead though, there’s just this totally ridiculous suggestion that cancer patients will get much better care if the NHS is screwed.

Report Johnny The Guesser November 2, 2020 10:12 PM GMT
During the first wave hospitals "cleared the decks" far too quickly. Everything was focused on keeping beds clear for potential COVID patients.
The elderly were discharged back into care homes without testing or even having tested positive. How many 000s of lives did this cost? (Probably 20,000 I reckon)
0000s of non-COVID operations / treatments were delayed and still haven't caught up. How many lives has this cost ? Will we ever be told ?
The key point is that cancer patients (and others) continued to be ignored even when the hospitals were not busy with COVID patients.
Hopefully the inevitable public enquiry will get to the bottom of this mismanagement.
Report Fatslogger November 3, 2020 10:48 AM GMT
The total deaths in care homes of Covid weren’t quite 20k, on several of the figures! Let’s assume it was more like 25k though, which is probably a fair ballpark number, you think that 4/5 of care home deaths came from discharges from hospital in March? That’s completely implausible. Care homes were already seeing significant outbreaks before then and saw several more well afterwards. There’s an interesting discussion to be had about decision making on discharges back to care homes. Given at the time quite reasonable predictions that hospitals would be swamped with Covid (and some in London especially were), how safe for those care homes residents themselves, do you think hospital was felt to be? The large majority of care home discharges were of people not tested for Covid because a) they weren’t suspected to have Covid clinically and b) testing capacity didn’t exist to do a just to make sure test. As it was, at that stage, tests were taking a few days to come back and significantly impairing both care for the individual patients and more so, the ability to manage hospitals safely knowing who was and wasn’t infected.

It is clearly true that some bad decisions were made and that both asymptomatic care home patients and the odd known or suspected positive case will have spread the virus. Alternatively, care home residents could have been kept in hospitals with the very real risk to them. There was a balance of risks here and I find the narrative that’s emerged rather glib, I guess.

Lots of non Covid care was of course delayed. Why do you think this was?
Report Johnny The Guesser November 3, 2020 12:38 PM GMT
Thanks for replying FS - appreciate your input from the coalface.
I fully understand your point - controlling the virus frees up the NHS to do other stuff. No problem with that as a longer term objective. But, what about the shorter term and those needing treatment right now (or over the summer) ?
Many feel that while COVID wards may have been busy, huge areas of hospitals were (are still are) effectively closed down as a "safety first" COVID precaution. Yes - a good strategy for reducing COVID death numbers ,which is all the Government seem to be focussing on), but not so good for the individuals missing out on their treatment.
Report dukeofpuke November 3, 2020 1:07 PM GMT
My mates a lorry driver and said they dismantled the nightingale hospital at the NEC even though 'they' were predicting a 2nd wave during the 1st wave lockdown
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