Oct 28, 2020 -- 1:27PM, tobermory wrote:
I don't know what the basis is to say
Oct 28, 2020 -- 1:27PM, Charlie wrote:
FrogI posted this a while ago:The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn’t Be a Model for the Rest of the Worldhttps://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/Does that help you?
Interesting article bashing the Swedish response to Covid.
I have not praised or bashed the Swedish response. It is not relevant to this topic.
My observation was why are deaths not climbing in Sweden at the rate they are in other countries that have seen also seen a lot of deaths such as France, Italy, UK, Spain, Belgium etc. I suggested it could be immunity built up early on in the younger members of their society mixing whilst the young people in lockdown countries were not.
It is only a suggestion on a topic box on immunity.
Oct 28, 2020 -- 1:51PM, nineteen points wrote:
now that you all agree with me about the lockdown madness etccan any of you boffins explain to stupid old me,how does london,with a population density of 5,701 per sq/km, have a 7 day average of 8 deaths a day, compared to the rest of the country,next highest 520,where these deaths are spiralling out of control,not my words mind.does natural immunity exist or are londons figures cooked to keep it open?
London went into lockdown later (in terms of the amount of people with the virus) than other populated areas so more people have immunity in London.
Oct 28, 2020 -- 2:01PM, Charlie wrote:
So Frog has finally come clean and stated his stance. Took a while.
Just seeking insights on the topic of the thread. Do you have any views on immunity to covid?
Oct 28, 2020 -- 1:25PM, Angoose wrote:
Why do individuals who get upset with a media report always resort to comments such as "nobody seems to question anything in the media" ?Don't they realize that they are themselves questioning it, and isn't is somewhat presumptuous to assume that all media consumers are incapable of applying critical thinking to such reports ?
Because the media reporting is so one sided in favour of lockdowns until vaccine, and reports like this push that narrative by saying there can be no herd immunity, with no one in the article invited to question, when the situation is a lot more complex than presented. Yes some people here are questioning it but the majority will just think this is what the experts say so that is 'the science' and then you get polls with 70%+ in favour of more restrictions. It would be a lot less high if the media presented a more balanced view of the debate.
Oct 28, 2020 -- 2:00PM, Magic__Daps wrote:
Angoose - what part do you not understand about the media, and why people get angry? The report on every single news channel yesterday regarding the immunity against Covid, is worded and reported on that will strike fear into an already generally feared population. They didn't report that antibodies reduce in many (unsure if it is all) diseases, just stated this as being fact and how people will need vaccines every 6 months etc. There is nothing clear cut or new in the "study" was there? But our good old media report it in the worst possible way. Where was the other side? Where was the context, or other facts? Nowhere was it questioned with what I seen, and we then had the TV Doctors stating it as gospel and that's how it is with no balance whatsoever. Why hasn't anyone asked how 50 million people has had it and only a handful have so say had it twice? If you are happy to watch that and just take it then that is up to you, but I think it is shocking and they should be held accountable. The vulnerable who are already scared to go and do anything safely, will now be even more worried. Still who cares, it's just the media.
You've kinda missed the point of what I wrote and now you've gone off on one regarding the limitations of the media.
And here comes tobermory to join the party.
Wonderful how the media is balanced when they present an argument that we support, but biased when they present an argument that we don't.
There was a very good programme on Radio 4 just last week that discussed balance in the media.
Well worth a listen if you have the time.
Oct 28, 2020 -- 2:18PM, Charlie wrote:
FrogJust post some evidence about herd immunity please. Any reputable source will do. There are many, many sources that refute it, the OP being one of those.
Covid has been around for almost a year.
The World Health Organisation says that 10% of the world's population has been infected in that time.
How many people have been ill from Covid twice that you have heard of?
Oct 28, 2020 -- 2:28PM, Charlie wrote:
Frog you are just going over stuff mentioned above.
Not sure what you are asking for.
I suggest that very few people have had Covid twice. Single figures reported. So rare it makes the news.
That means some form of immunity exists. That is no a crank idea. It is a fact.
What evidence do you have that their is no immunity?
Oct 28, 2020 -- 2:09PM, Charlie wrote:
Yes, see OP. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that herd immunity exists. Not a single shred of evidence from a reliable source. You have cranks who think it does and I'm putting you in that category.London didn't go into lockdown later than other areas.
Problem here, Charlie, I think, is that there are several conceptions of herd immunity. There’s the libertarian right / Great Barrington Declaration notion of let the old hide and / or die and we’ll get herd immunity. This is both morally depraved (once you strip out the cloaking) and scientifically extremely dubious. Then you have the notion that people who’ve had an infection are less likely to get it again, probably much less likely initially, and will also be less likely to become seriously unwell and less likely to spread it, even if they do get it again. While this is yet to be sketched out in anything more than preliminary detail for SARS-CoV2, it’s probably going to be roughly as I’ve said. It’s this latter concept that probably explains why say London is now doing far better than say Manchester, whereas it was the other way around in the initial outbreak.
Oct 28, 2020 -- 2:41PM, Magic__Daps wrote:
Why would they modify their behaviour? I would expect most would go the opposite way and not care as much. Considering most who do follow the rules catch it then you would expect many would catch it twice. A handful out of 50 million tells me there is immunity at the moment.
What such individuals have chosen to do is not known to either you or I, thus what we might expect is hardly conclusive evidence.
Oct 28, 2020 -- 10:17AM, edy wrote:
Reform into a federal republic and replace the House of Lords with a state chamber before it's too late!
I agree a federal system with properly demarcated powers would be better. Britain has one of the worst political structures in the world. The Tories have always had a boneheaded centralizing approach; Thatcher wanted to abolish local government altogether, so there would have been a cabinet minister in charge of collecting bin bags. Labour also instinctively believes central government should be in charge. Devolution was not something they believed in, it was a tactic to keep Labour at 40+ Westminster seats from Scotland, as they figured once a parliament in Edinburgh was created the SNP would have nothing of interest to offer voters. The mayors and police commissioners etc that they created have very limited powers compared to counterparts in other countries and hardly any powers that central government could not take back or override.
Oct 29, 2020 -- 12:49PM, nineteen points wrote:
oops!! check who your logged in as next time
Do you ever make any sense?
Oct 29, 2020 -- 1:26PM, nineteen points wrote:
the covid coven
Do you actually read anything I post about Covid? Yesterday you tried some strange gotcha about hospital testing then ran away when challenged on talking rubbish. Today you’ve missed me discussing herd immunity.
Oct 29, 2020 -- 1:44PM, peckerdunne wrote:
Charlie where on earth has that poem come from, pretty cool little thing, i'm not familiar with.Sorry i mean Mex or is it Fats, gee i can't tell no more, it feels like there is 19 of you all in one.
In case you didn't work it out, it's from Shakespeare with a few words changed; some obvious some not so.
Oct 30, 2020 -- 11:13AM, Angoose wrote:
It's a bit over the top in places but still one of my favourites. MacBeth's speech on hearing of the death of Lady MacBeth is just stunning:
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Oct 30, 2020 -- 1:01PM, peckerdunne wrote:
Reminds me of some of the howling forum posters.
It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
is especially suitable.
Oct 30, 2020 -- 3:08PM, shiny new shoes please wrote:
Antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 were detected in 18 per cent of participants overall in the study undertaken by TUH over a three-month period from mid-July to mid-October.Case closed
Can you explain why the case is closed?
Oct 30, 2020 -- 4:33PM, nineteen points wrote:
can YOU explainmore lockdownsmore masksmore casesevery single day i am getting proven right.and every single day you and your coven bury your heads deeper.
Right, go on then. I'm still in an "enough of their bullsh!t" kind of mood.
Can you phrase your argument into a sentence please? Are you saying for instance, that lockdowns and masks are directly leading to more cases? Is that your argument?
Good morning by the way.
Oct 31, 2020 -- 6:44AM, nineteen points wrote:
Sorry, but if that is an "answer" you need to hand your cards in. Come on, be brave. Engage with the discussion. Explain how lockdown has increased transmission (or indeed how it's increased now and in Feb/March without lockdown).
Evidence please. Wouldn't want anyone thinking you're a conspiracy theorist troll.
Oct 31, 2020 -- 9:28AM, nineteen points wrote:
how many covid deaths to folk with no medical problems?
How many times do you have to be told? The point of controlling the virus is to prevent the NHS from becoming overloaded and causing non-covid deaths.
Also 30% of the population have an "underlying condition".