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Elroch
03 Oct 20 12:15
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Date Joined: 14 May 07
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By:
DanielKoellerer
When: 03 Oct 20 12:26
'We have suspended betting on the US election following the news of the President's diagnosis. Our thoughts are with the President and First Lady at this time and we will continue to monitor the situation'

Absolutely ridiculous.
By:
sageform
When: 03 Oct 20 13:25
Why is it ridiculous? Only 2 candidates on the betting list and a very good chance that one of them could drop out and also a good chance that new candidates will emerge.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 13:29
If any candidate withdraws for any reason, including death, all bets on the market will stand and be settled as per the defined rules (Updated - 20/06/2020)

From betfair rules on the market.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Oct 20 13:39
Betfair are making a right mess of this. Their reasoning for the suspension seems to have altered.
Firstly they claimed they had suspended the market to "protect customers" with unmatched bets.
But now according to their twitter they have suspended "as we do not feel it is right to provide a market given circumstances".
If they'd put either of these situations in the rules then it would be fair enough but I would have bet elsewhere.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 13:44
Replying to
@BetfairExchange
1️⃣ The Exchange is a peer to peer platform where bets are matched by other customers in the market, whereas Sportsbook bets cannot be traded once they have been made by customers.
Betfair Exchange
@BetfairExchange
·
39m
2️⃣ Following yesterday morning’s news, we took the decision to suspend betting across both products as a precaution and to protect customers on the Exchange with unmatched bets.
Betfair Exchange
@BetfairExchange
·
39m
3️⃣Those bets were cancelled and so we felt it was right to re-open the market and allow customers with positions the opportunity to trade.
Betfair Exchange
@BetfairExchange
·
39m
4️⃣After a short period of trading, and following updates from the US, we again took the decision to suspend the Exchange as we do not feel it is right to provide a market given circumstances.
Betfair Exchange
@BetfairExchange
·
40m
5️⃣ We hope this provides some clarity to customers and if you have any further need for support please DM
@BetfairCS
who will try to help you over the coming days.
By:
dave1357
When: 03 Oct 20 13:45
sageform, there are more than two selections in the market and in the unlikely event that none of them become president, I'm sure betfair will use their discretion.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 13:49
There is a problem with the approach currently being taken. If someone has an increasingly poor position on a candidate, there is no way out. The price may be drifting very badly but the customer can't lay off/arb/ cash out etc and when the market reopens could be in a situation where it is impossible to recover any perceived losses.
By:
tobermory
When: 03 Oct 20 13:52

Oct 3, 2020 -- 1:25PM, sageform wrote:


Why is it ridiculous? Only 2 candidates on the betting list and a very good chance that one of them could drop out and also a good chance that new candidates will emerge.


There are 122 candidates.

By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Oct 20 13:54
I'm sure they won't, but it might be helpful to some if betfair would confirm that they will follow their rule to settle the market if someone does pass away, given they are making up new rules as they go.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 13:56
As far as I am aware, Betfair haven't changed the rules on the market.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 14:00
Betfair Exchange
@BetfairExchange
·
4h
US ELECTION UPDATE

We have suspended betting on the US election following news of the President’s diagnosis. Our thoughts are with the President and First Lady at this time and we will continue to monitor the situation.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Oct 20 14:02

Oct 3, 2020 -- 1:56PM, politicspunter wrote:


As far as I am aware, Betfair haven't changed the rules on the market.


No but they've made up 2 new rules about suspending the market.

By:
tobermory
When: 03 Oct 20 14:06
They made up new rules for the 2017 'Next Prime Minister' market and also for the 2019 'Next Tory Leader'
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 03 Oct 20 14:07
Although an open market would benefit me massively, I don't have a problem with Betfair suspending while the disease outcome is uncertain. They rightly don't want to be seen to be enabling a proxy "Will x die?" market.

Should Trump die, *then* they obviously should reopen the market per their explicitly stated rules. (Ditto should it become objectively clear he's not in danger.) Meantime, it's frustrating but there's nothing in the rules that I can see that guarantees they'll keep the market open for trading in circumstances like this.

Arguably, they should take the WH at its word when they say this is precautionary. But it's a judgment call, and I don't think it's unreasonable given the tendency of politicians to downplay things like this till they can't. (See also: Johnson, B)
By:
tobermory
When: 03 Oct 20 14:13
But people would have won because Trump died. Is that not 'in bad taste'.

Obviously they won't want to void it because of the commission they'd lose.

I suppose their defence will be that bets before Friday were betting on him to lose rather than die Plain

But their market rules made clear all along that dead men were losers.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 14:17
If Trump was being read the last rites currently, you would understand why the market might be suspended. He isn't though.
By:
dave1357
When: 03 Oct 20 14:18
more importantly there may be people with huge exposure to a trump death who can't make precautionary hedges while it is still an unlikely event.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 03 Oct 20 14:20
Someone dying isn't really so much of a reputational issue though because it's a left field event. A player in a Top Goalscorer market could get run over by a bus midseason.

It's the proxy death market while they're in danger thing that's a bad look.
By:
tobermory
When: 03 Oct 20 14:21
I don't think it should be suspended under any circumstances at all.
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 14:24
I wasn't certain at first but now I am convinced it should be open.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 03 Oct 20 14:32
Betfair expressly reserves the right to suspend and/or void any and all bets on this market at any time if Betfair is not satisfied (in its absolute discretion) with the certainty of the outcome.

That's all you need to know.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 03 Oct 20 14:33
This isn't to do with the certainty of the outcome though.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 03 Oct 20 14:48
Yes, sorry, "certainty of the outcome" is a bit of a misdirection


Betfair reserves the right at any time in its sole and absolute discretion to suspend an Exchange market without suspending any corresponding or related Sportsbook or Fixed Odds market, or to suspend or stop offering a Sportsbook or Fixed Odds market without suspending any corresponding or related Exchange market.
By:
dave1357
When: 03 Oct 20 15:07
^that is irrelevant to this scenario - both markets are suspended.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 03 Oct 20 15:13
Betfair reserves the right at any time in its sole and absolute discretion to suspend an Exchange market
By:
dave1357
When: 03 Oct 20 15:17
you really are an idiot sometimes.
By:
winningthought
When: 03 Oct 20 15:21
Yeah, but the idiot ain't wrong though.
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 03 Oct 20 15:21
Just offering you a helping hand, dave1357, since you have form from last year for mis-reading your rights in relation to market rules.
By:
viva el presidente!
When: 03 Oct 20 15:27
WH statement coming at 4pm
By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Oct 20 15:27
Of course there is a rule that lets betfair do anything they like in any market, just not the one posted

Betfair may, in its sole and absolute discretion, decide to suspend betting on a market at any time

But this situation was so predictable that this should be in the market rules not some general rule
By:
bingo bongo
When: 03 Oct 20 15:29
Should have probably posted the entire paragraph because the last part could be interesting

Betfair may, in its sole and absolute discretion, decide to suspend betting on a market at any time (even if such suspension is earlier than anticipated by the Exchange Rules). In the interests of maintaining integrity and fairness in the markets, Betfair may also void certain bets in a market or void a whole market in its entirety.
By:
dave1357
When: 03 Oct 20 15:31
So lets summarise your efforts here:

Betfair expressly reserves the right to suspend and/or void any and all bets on this market at any time if Betfair is not satisfied (in its absolute discretion) with the certainty of the outcome.

irrelevant

Betfair reserves the right at any time in its sole and absolute discretion to suspend an Exchange market without suspending any corresponding or related Sportsbook or Fixed Odds market, or to suspend or stop offering a Sportsbook or Fixed Odds market without suspending any corresponding or related Exchange market

irrelevant

Betfair reserves the right at any time in its sole and absolute discretion to suspend an Exchange market

a snippet of the above merely emphasising your laziness in researching the actual term which probably says the same thing.

And betfair were 100% incorrect in managing the theresa may market and only got off the hook by a statement from the party.
By:
lfc1971
When: 03 Oct 20 15:31
Don’t think they suspend the Dow Jones or ftse
By:
unitedbiscuits
When: 03 Oct 20 15:34
And betfair were 100% incorrect in managing the theresa may market !

Well it's not too late to tell them, dave1357!

Thanks for the comedy.
By:
winningthought
When: 03 Oct 20 15:36
As frustrating as it is, it is what it is. One can always take recourse through the courts.
By:
dave1357
When: 03 Oct 20 15:45
^^ I and many others did indeed tell them.
By:
winningthought
When: 03 Oct 20 15:46
Well this time back your words up with action.
By:
A_T
When: 03 Oct 20 15:49
it's probably just about being respectful and not appearing to be in bad taste
By:
politicspunter
When: 03 Oct 20 15:50
3.5 Trump now being matched elsewhere.
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