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geordie1956
16 Sep 20 11:48
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Date Joined: 28 Dec 11
| Topic/replies: 8,427 | Blogger: geordie1956's blog
Frightening that so few of the young now realise the horrors of what happened which in real terms was not that long ago ...

A report in the Guardian -

"Almost two-thirds of young American adults do not know that 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust, and more than one in 10 believe Jews caused the Holocaust, a new survey has found, revealing shocking levels of ignorance about the greatest crime of the 20th century.

According to the study of millennial and Gen Z adults aged between 18 and 39, almost half (48%) could not name a single concentration camp or ghetto established during the second world war.

Almost a quarter of respondents (23%) said they believed the Holocaust was a myth, or had been exaggerated, or they weren’t sure. One in eight (12%) said they had definitely not heard, or didn’t think they had heard, about the Holocaust.

More than half (56%) said they had seen Nazi symbols on their social media platforms and/or in their communities, and almost half (49%) had seen Holocaust denial or distortion posts on social media or elsewhere online.

“The results are both shocking and saddening, and they underscore why we must act now while Holocaust survivors are still with us to voice their stories,” said Gideon Taylor, president of the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany (Claims Conference) which commissioned the survey.

Taylor added: “We need to understand why we aren’t doing better in educating a younger generation about the Holocaust and the lessons of the past. This needs to serve as a wake-up call to us all, and as a road map of where government officials need to act.”

The survey, the first to drill down to state level in the US, ranks states according to a score based on three criteria: whether young people have definitely heard about the Holocaust; whether they can name one concentration camp, death camp or ghetto; and whether they know 6 million Jews were killed.

The top-scoring state was Wisconsin, where 42% of millennial and Gen Z adults met all three criteria, followed by Minnesota at 37% and Massachusetts at 35%. The lowest-scoring states were Florida at 20%, Mississippi at 18% and Arkansas at 17%.

Nationally, 63% of respondents did not know 6 million Jews were murdered during the Holocaust, and more than one in three (36%) thought 2 million or fewer had been killed.

Eleven per cent of respondents across the US believed that Jews had caused the Holocaust, with the proportion in New York state at 19%, followed by 16% in Louisiana, Tennessee and Montana, and 15% in Arizona, Connecticut, Georgia, Nevada and New Mexico.

Nationally, 44% of those questioned were able to identify Auschwitz-Birkenau, and only 3% were familiar with Bergen-Belsen. Six out of 10 respondents in Texas could not name a single concentration camp or ghetto.

However, almost two-thirds (64%) of American millennial and Gen Z adults believe Holocaust education should be compulsory in schools. Seven out of 10 said it was not acceptable for an individual to hold neo-Nazi views.

The Claims Conference, whose mission is “to provide a measure of justice for Jewish Holocaust victims”, set up a taskforce to oversee the survey. It included Holocaust survivors, historians and experts from Yad Vashem and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum.

Data was collected from 1,000 interviews nationwide and 200 interviews in each state with young adults aged 18 to 39 selected at random.
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Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 12:10 PM BST
So what? dosent make them bad people

Islamist terrorists know all about it, hasn’t helped their behaviour
Report DanielKoellerer September 16, 2020 12:19 PM BST
lfc with his intellectual musings...
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 12:23 PM BST
The less you know the sounder you sleep ‘
( that’s an old saying used by Russian grandmothers Daniel
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 12:27 PM BST
Data was collected from 1,000 interviews nationwide and 200 interviews in each state with young adults aged 18 to 39 selected at random.

Yeah right.

And if the results hadn't been startling, the people who commissioned the survey would have wasted their money?

I'm sure they got the results they were seeking.
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 12:34 PM BST
America and it’s people did it’s bit to rid the world of the scourge of the holocaust
That’s whats important , they came from the farmlands and the cities
Teach that and be thankful
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 12:42 PM BST
These are the people making the claims:

The Claims Conference has been criticised recently both for its high staff salaries and of its priorities.

On May 19, 2006, The Jewish Chronicle revealed that the Claims Conference highest-paid official, executive vice-president Gideon Taylor, was awarded $437,811 (£240,000) in salary and pension (2004 numbers). An advisor to British survivors in compensation claims in the 1990s, Dr Pinto-Duschinsky, commented: "It is wrong for the executive vice-president to earn annually the same as the compensation for several hundred former slave labourers. The moral authority of the leading Jewish organisations is gravely weakened by excessively high salaries for top officials."[6]
Wiki.

And there's much more than that.
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 12:44 PM BST
I’m not sure we can trust history teachers in our schools to teach British history
And then again they might not be British
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 12:45 PM BST
''In an article of the Jerusalem Post he says that "the richest Jewish foundation in the world, has still failed to provide adequate financial assistance to elderly and sick Holocaust survivors who live in abject poverty in the twilight of their lives. An organization which boasts that it currently holds in trust $900 million in assets, yet fails to rectify such a condition, must be held accountable for one of the greatest scandals in contemporary Jewish life."[7]

The priorities of the organization have also been criticised. Among the critics is the Claims Conference own treasurer, Roman Kent, a Holocaust survivor, who told The Jewish Chronicle: "Survivors are suffering. Our only priority should be the survivors, and everything else should be secondary. We are spending money for thousands of projects, but the health of the survivors can't wait. They are dying daily." [...] "I'm not saying that these are bad programmes, but they can wait - or else they should be the responsibility of the world Jewish community, not the Claims Conference.[9]

In a 2006 investigative report, it was claimed the organization, while having $1.7 billion in its accounts, finances welfare assistance for only 9,000 survivors while "tens of millions of dollars each year" are spent on management expenses with the balance going largely to organisations having little to do with the Holocaust or its survivors.[10]

Amidst this mounting criticism, the office of Germany's independent federal auditor announced it was considering an investigation of the Claims Conference in June 2008.[11]''
Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_Conference

So instead of wasting money on surveys and inflated salaries, they need to put their own house in order.
Report edy September 16, 2020 12:46 PM BST

Sep 16, 2020 -- 12:27PM, Dr Crippen wrote:


Data was collected from 1,000 interviews nationwide and 200 interviews in each state with young adults aged 18 to 39 selected at random. Yeah right. And if the results hadn't been startling, the people who commissioned the survey would have wasted their money?I'm sure they got the results they were seeking.


Do you think, in reality, that fewer or more US Americans are ridiculously stupid enough to believe the Holocaust was a myth or exaggerated?

Report edy September 16, 2020 12:47 PM BST
young US Americans
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 12:50 PM BST
Trust the Guardian to fall for their bullshine.
Report politicspunter September 16, 2020 12:51 PM BST

Sep 16, 2020 -- 12:46PM, edy wrote:


Sep 16, 2020 -- 12:27PM, Dr Crippen wrote:Data was collected from 1,000 interviews nationwide and 200 interviews in each state with young adults aged 18 to 39 selected at random. Yeah right. And if the results hadn't been startling, the people who commissioned the survey would have wasted their money?I'm sure they got the results they were seeking.Do you think, in reality, that fewer or more US Americans are ridiculously stupid enough to believe the Holocaust was a myth or exaggerated?


Lol, that is how folks lose money, by only believing what their agenda says and what they wish to happen, rather than follow opinion polls.

Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 12:52 PM BST
Who knows what the left wing liberals would make of it
All schools are indoctrination systems, period !
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 12:53 PM BST
Guardian readers will fall for it hook line and sinker.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 12:54 PM BST
Simply because they want to believe anything bad about Americans.
Report timbuctooth September 16, 2020 1:20 PM BST
The Holocaust? Carried out by the national SOCIALIST party??? Aaah, yes, just another in the long line of leftie genocides, justifying their `party of death` tag, only able to win arguments, elections, hearts and minds by killing non-compliants
Report saddo September 16, 2020 1:34 PM BST
Who are they criticising for not knowing these things, the public or the education system?
They devote much time to it in our schools, I can only speak for my daughter and her group but none of them thought it enjoyable or relevant to their young lives.
I believe they used a similar survey to lambast the British public a year or two back. As for 1000 people representing 360 million....... well
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 1:38 PM BST
Seems odd that half have seen holocaust denial, when so few didn't know what holocaust was.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 1:39 PM BST
So few knew what holocaust was
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 1:42 PM BST
1000 is a decent survey if selected properly, certainly more relevant than family and their friends.

I doubt anybody will really enjoy studying the holocaust, but it remains an important lesson for all.
Report saddo September 16, 2020 2:19 PM BST
I hear that a lot, my daughter learned what she had to and promptly forgot most of it. How long should it remain such a large part of the curriculum when we have low standards in Maths and sciences is probably debatable.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 2:48 PM BST
Maybe higher standards in maths will help to understand 6 million.
Report saddo September 16, 2020 3:32 PM BST
That's a bit silly, even by your standards. There have been other atrocities since then and my daughter was taught about none of them, probably grateful for it too. Is it really just numbers that matter? Pol pot killed over 20% of his people, that sounds a big number.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 3:39 PM BST
How many did Stalin kill?

And what about Chairman Mao, ''40 to 80 million victims through starvation, persecution, prison labour and mass executions.''
Wiki.
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 3:52 PM BST
I think it was the clinical efficiency of the Germans that made it so chilling
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 3:56 PM BST
What good it does teaching about it I don’t know
It’s not good for young children certainly or even older to study maybe
Report the old nanny ;-) September 16, 2020 4:04 PM BST
Judging by what is currently on the streets of the States, I would be surprised if they know what month it is ,never mind anything else.
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 4:06 PM BST
When I was at school we studied Chinese communism , and the civil war leading up to it for O level history
But I don’t think it mentioned the numbers killed under communism
What I remember most is the name Chiang Kai Shek the nationalist leader
And I remember liking the idea that everyone wore the same type of dress Happy
That’s pretty much what I remember , I loved studying that part of history
Report lfc1971 September 16, 2020 4:24 PM BST
Now of course the idea that everyone was issued with the same type of clothes is frightening in itself
It was a warning of things to come
Report timbuctooth September 16, 2020 5:18 PM BST
lefties love a good uniform, from stalin, mao, kkk and hitler, all the way through to blm. Just another part of killing the individualism within us that is so crucial to their evil globalist aims.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 5:53 PM BST
Seems as if the usual suspects are all against teaching about fascists killing folk.

But wish to have teaching about others killing folk.

Odd that.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 6:23 PM BST
Seems as if the usual suspects are all against teaching about fascists killing folk.

I can't see where anyone has said that laugh.

So why make things up?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 6:35 PM BST
You not read the thread?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 6:37 PM BST
The whole reaction of usual suspects to this thread is exactly what happens.

As previously observed.

Who was it that was the denier,

Hmmm?
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 6:39 PM BST
If you can find anything to back up what you wrote then quote it.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 6:40 PM BST
Somebody with a mate on a shopping channel
displaying nazi symbolism perhaps?
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 6:59 PM BST
So you can't find anything - thought not.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 7:17 PM BST
I don't wish to promote it.

People can simply read the thread.

Match contributions to the names that post them.

Amazing stuff.
Report Dr Crippen September 16, 2020 7:26 PM BST
I post this again for you laugh.

''In an article of the Jerusalem Post he says that "the richest Jewish foundation in the world, has still failed to provide adequate financial assistance to elderly and sick Holocaust survivors who live in abject poverty in the twilight of their lives. An organization which boasts that it currently holds in trust $900 million in assets, yet fails to rectify such a condition, must be held accountable for one of the greatest scandals in contemporary Jewish life."[7]

They've got money to waste on misleading studies, while they're negligent in the very cause they were set up to remedy.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 7:31 PM BST
Is that from the nazi guy on your shopping channel?
Report grappler September 16, 2020 9:25 PM BST
firstly; it is always worthwhile being suspicious of someone who makes an anodyne statement and then merely cuts and pastes something entirely unoriginal. it usually means they cannot formulate an argument for themselves. they are at the mercy of received opinion, handily provided by the grauniad.

if the survey reported in the guardian had been taken in the middle east the results would have been far more shocking. the holocaust is routinely denied and the protocols of zion are used as text books.

mass murder is far more prevalent, and indeed common, under communism. the first genuine concentration camps appeared in the ussr long before auschwitz. the ussr starved to death and shot and exiled tens of millions during peacetime, no war necessary, long before adolf got his keks on. if you think people are ignorant of the holocaust, which is on the history channel daily, try asking about this. almost nobody, including the op is aware of it.

between 80--100 million died at the hands of revolutionary socialist regimes during the 20th century, and are still suffering in places no-one cares about, like cuba and laos and north korea.
nazism was a human stain, and is rightly highlighted, but  the same people who scream about it are silent about the hecatomb of socialism.

these 'surveys' always highlight u.s. stupidity. racism that only goes one way. try another continent and ask the same, you will get something far beyond what you imagined. 'stupid africans' anyone?  impossible. the u.s. produced microsoft apple instagram google amazon etc and all your tv progs. how stupid of them. try poking fun at african stupidity, its much easier- polygny, fgm, animism, slavery, mutu.

moral and intellectual dishonesty is an abiding sin of the age, and is only getting worse. the windies cricket team 'takes a knee' while they are killed by their own police at a rate far in advance of that in the u.s. 

who has pointed out this grotesque absurdity? nobody im aware of.

burke's aphorism about the triumph of evil if good people do nothing has never been more apt
Report macarony September 16, 2020 10:03 PM BST
What about the genocide that is happening now? Past genocide has been transparent we can see what is happening, but what about passive genocide where a people are killed off not with weapons but with immigration swamped out of existence by wave after wave of newcomers until the people of land are no more.

noun
the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
Report saddo September 16, 2020 10:16 PM BST
Great post grappler. I see the leftist resorts to abuse as usual.
Report grappler September 16, 2020 10:33 PM BST
what you highlight is not deliberate, nor is it extermination, it is homeopathic. the culture that has made the modern liberal civilisation so desirable to those who know they can never experience such freedom in their own lands is being destroyed by those who will not stand up for it, despite the rest of the worlds desire for it. the only places in the world anyone wants to be are europe, north america and aus/nz.

we, alone, must be multi-cultural. nowhere else gives it a thought. nothing pluralist in the middle east, or anywhere outside those countries mentioned. china will always be chinese, likewise russia and the middle east. refugees always head to the west. instructive that a large majority of refugees are fleeing islamic countries. no islamic country would have anyone left if they could all get out. crazy to think how many boats head to australia, bypassing the largest and most prosperous islamic state in the world, indonesia, to seek penury in an alien nation a further 2000 miles away.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 16, 2020 10:53 PM BST
There should be no need for debate on a holocaust thread.

But the usual suspects bring their usual drivel.
Report grappler September 16, 2020 11:01 PM BST
laughable. please provide examples of my drivel. nobody is debating the holocaust. the op expressed surprise and disappointment at the lack of knowledge of it. i pointed out that surveys are frequently self-serving, and that ignorance of this great crime(which i highlighted) was as nothing compared to ignorance of other great crimes against humanity.

if this is drivel, then what is truth, in your tiny mind?
Report edy September 16, 2020 11:09 PM BST
I do think it is a weird to have an urge to go into a holocaust thread and be all "Was horrible, but them communists, they did even greater crimes"
Report grappler September 16, 2020 11:27 PM BST
wrong eduardo. the point is that the op expressed disappointment at the surprising lack of knowledge of it. i pointed out that the 'survey' was targeted at a particular audience and unlikely to show them in a good light, and that similar questions, posed to a different audience, would have produced alarming responses. as i said, these surveys are targeted and worded to elicit the response desired. my mate works at gallup, btw. hes well into the dark arts of pollstering. tip; believe none of it.

secondly, if it comes to ignorance of crimes against humanity, then the crimes i mentioned are far and away less well known than the holocaust, which is my point and the one you are so keen to miss.
Report edy September 16, 2020 11:33 PM BST
I'm not keen to miss the point, I still think it's a weird thing to point out.

Do you go into threads regarding the some cruel in Europe, maybe a terrorist attack, and say "Horrible, but to put this into perspective, on the other side of world, much less relevant to us British people (or Europeans), there was this much bigger and crueler event that barely anyone knows about"?
Report edy September 16, 2020 11:33 PM BST
*Do you go into threads regarding some cruel event in Europe
Report tobermory September 16, 2020 11:35 PM BST
The Nazis are (rightly enough IMO) seen as worse than the Soviets, Mao et al because the murders were actually an aim of their ideology, rather than an acceptable (to the communists) consequence or 'necessary' collateral damage.
Report grappler September 17, 2020 12:09 AM BST
the soviets killed everybody in their way, from 1917. the mass killing of jews happened during a war. the soviets didnt need one, they just just bumped off everyone. for 70 years. at least they didnt discriminate. they also starved to death millions of peasants. in the most resource-rich country in the world.

the ussr is never held to account. no truth and reconciliation, no reparations, nothing. and putin cannot differentiate between the ussr and russia.
Report Get me a drink September 17, 2020 8:14 AM BST
Unless you're a communist or a nazi, to normal people one particlar regime is not worse or more acceptable than the other. They are both thoroughly evil.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2020 9:29 AM BST
I do think it is a weird to have an urge to go into a holocaust thread and be all "Was horrible, but them communists, they did even greater crimes"


Don't you think it's also weird to go into a thread, and simply attack posters who have contributed?
Report edy September 17, 2020 9:55 AM BST
It wasn't an attack, unlike your post just now.
Report edy September 17, 2020 9:56 AM BST
Also, stop behaving like a common troll.

Thank you!
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2020 10:02 AM BST
You're welcome.
Report bigpoppapump September 17, 2020 11:41 AM BST
The first Concentration Camps were used by the Brits in the Boer War for what it's worth.

But yeah, industrial scale whataboutery to turn a Holocaust ignorance thread into a 'the Soviets were also murderers' thread (not denying that's also true by the way).

As you were.
Report Dr Crippen September 17, 2020 12:19 PM BST
Why give the communists cover when talking about atrocities?

Let's see the big picture and call them all out.
Report LoyalHoncho September 20, 2020 3:27 PM BST
"burke's aphorism about the triumph of evil if good people do nothing has never been more apt".
I don't know which plagiarist published and used the above line on here, nor do I care.  However, I do care that it is one of the most wholly inaccurate pieces of trite c rap ever written and grossly over and mis-used.
We have almost no record of any "good people" in Nazi Germany "doing anything" because they were all murdered and records of their existence obliterated.  Doing nothing was the only option if you wanted you and your family to stay alive.
And don't anyone tell me they would have done anything other than comply if they had a wife, kids and parents to support and look after.
Blaming German civilians for Nazi atrocities is absolute tosh!
Report Whisperingdeath September 21, 2020 12:31 PM BST
That's right they didn't have their own Battle of Cable Street they had the Nuremburg Rallies and book burning.
Report LoyalHoncho September 21, 2020 6:49 PM BST
No they didn't.  The Nazis did though.  You're not too bright, are you?
Report Whisperingdeath September 21, 2020 7:18 PM BST
If you say soWink

I doth my cap and tug my forelock to your superior intelligence as witnessed alreadyLaugh
Report Whisperingdeath September 21, 2020 7:19 PM BST
Blaming German civilians for Nazi atrocities is absolute tosh!


Genius!
Report lfc1971 September 21, 2020 7:34 PM BST
The whole of continental Europe is full of ghostly skeletons,
that’s why we need to keep our distance, ...vote UKIP
Report jollyswagman September 21, 2020 7:39 PM BST
i think ukip need a new leader again lfc, if you join it could be you
Report jollyswagman September 21, 2020 7:39 PM BST
anything's possible, i read it somewhere
Report jollyswagman September 21, 2020 7:40 PM BST
who would deny that?
Report lfc1971 September 21, 2020 7:44 PM BST
js Britain voted to self isolate a while ago and voted out of Europe and elected an incompetent leader
they don’t need another Grin
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