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melv
12 Jul 20 06:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 7,212 | Blogger: melv's blog
By selling coffee to each other wearing face masks.

And giving money to rich people who are already taking staff on.
HA haha hah hh hahah haah h ah ha ha ha ExcitedHA haha hah hh hahah haah h ah ha ha ha ExcitedHA haha hah hh hahah haah h ah ha ha ha Excited

Meanwhile "get going" is an admission that the economy if fkd. And nobody is taking this seriously. And nobody is admitting the we can print as money as we want because we are a fiat economy. AS LONG AS THE MONEY IS USED BEING............. P R O D U C T I VE.

Massive investment in health education and beautiful dwellings for all............. and a green revolution NOW.


Massive pay rise for health and care workers   N O W   because we are so poor that we will spend the money straight  into the economy. Of course non of you idiot have heard of  THE MULTIPLIER. Have you....................idiots.

Otherwise stick your clapping up your ignorant cap doffing asssssssssssss
Pause Switch to Standard View Lets get the economy going again.
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Report melv July 12, 2020 6:38 AM BST
I alway do a few typos when I'm angry.
Report flushgordon1 July 12, 2020 9:30 AM BST
Nurse!!! he's forgotten to take his tablets again.
Report Foinavon July 12, 2020 11:27 AM BST
ExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcited

FREE MUNNNNNNYYYY and "GREEN" concrete. LoveLoveLove
Report Dotchinite July 12, 2020 12:08 PM BST
Who is this new comedy character? Who did he post as before.
Report melv July 12, 2020 12:16 PM BST
There'll be bilions of " free" money given to the rich before this is over . By this lot.

As  a follower of Varoufakis Foin you know that all money is free money. Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods. We have all been dishing out free money since 2008 and Japan for even longer. Nobody has managed to cause inflation. Even though we all wanted at least some inflation.

We could easily have negative interest rate soo. As you know that when the currency issuer PAYS people to borrow money off them.

Trouble is is goes to the rich who just sit on it while wages for the rest of us fall. And our countries lack investment in ...yes health, education housing, infrastructure, research and all the things that would make the world a better place for all.

Never mind defending us all from the effects of climate change and future pandemics.

I am now a follower of MMT (Warren Mosler, L. Randall Wray, Stephanie Kelton, Bill Mitchel James K Galbraith and Michael Hudson. Varoufakis is in Agreement) Foin I would not be surprised if you where not aware of it. Isn't your cartoonery a mite disingenuous.

You know very well that economies do not fun like Thatcher's dads grocers shop. Saying they do is a lie. Corner shops cannot print their own money. ( apart from very rare and very very local instances)
Report melv July 12, 2020 12:24 PM BST
As you know Foin interest rates are ; by definition; THE PRICE OF MONEY.

We could easily have negative interest rate soon. As you know that's when the currency issuer PAYS people to borrow money off them.

Thats not just free money that's free money with added Christmas presents and most of it will go to the rich who will do nothing with it.

Socialism for the bankers its known as. Of course the shameless super rich know that moral hazard has never applied to them . This lot can't give them too much money.
Report melv July 12, 2020 12:30 PM BST
Should read.


Foin I would  be surprised if you where not aware of it. Isn't your cartoonery a mite disingenuous.
Report peckerdunne July 12, 2020 1:22 PM BST
After so many rounds of so called QE, the Dollar keeps rising.....

That's polar opposites,it can't happen, something is very wrong..

Add that to the Dow being completely on unadulterated pure crack........

Oh and a further tsunami of job losses, with a virus that won't encourage spending.

Can only lead to the biggest correction ever seen.
Report Foinavon July 12, 2020 1:37 PM BST
Yanis not keen on this new Irish Eurogroup chief, Melv. Shocked

Barrowloads of free money during the Weimar Republic. What happened next? Do tell.

Barrowloads of free money in Venezuela but there's nowt to buy with it. What will happen next?

Good to see you back Melv, I was getting peed off with this lefty echo chamber but you brighten up the day.Happy
Report melv July 12, 2020 1:51 PM BST
That's polar opposites, it can't happen, something is very wrong..

Exactly something is very wrong. If you're not on board with Modern money theory then you are not fully informed. If you are following classical economics its your theory thats very very  wrong. There's tons on MMT on you tube.

Rohan Grey is not an economist and IMO explains MMT very nicely. But there's tons available,
Report melv July 12, 2020 2:08 PM BST
I missed you Foin.


Barrowloads of free money during the Weimar Republic. What happened next? Do tell.



Foin inflation is too much money chasing too few goods and services. As in Germany and Zimbabwe where production failed. You all ready know this what's the matter with you.

As there are enough goods and services around we aren't getting inflation despite the barrowloads in our mobile phones. So what has to be sorted is not money supplied its productivity and production and there tons of stuff we need and there a hell of a lot of services we can provide theses days. Personally I'm more interested in Education health and many (which our aging population need) tons and tons tons of other forms of care. On top of that I suspect our taste for cappuccinos and beautiful baristas is infinite. All we need is the will to implement the correct policies.


But not all you want to of doff your caps to the rich and powerful innit. I wonder how many of your are as old as me????? if you are you will soon need all the services that MMT policies can implement and your ned for services will drive the supply of money for everyone.
Report melv July 12, 2020 2:12 PM BST
Rohans the first speaker on here and I think he is a good start for an explanation of MMT. But MMT is all over youtube because its correct and urgently needed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yror3i1TRjk
Report Foinavon July 12, 2020 2:37 PM BST
Foin inflation is too much money chasing too few goods and services. As in Germany and Zimbabwe where production failed. You all ready know this what's the matter with you.

That's what happens when money is free. Someone has to supply the goods and services, how will you reward them for making the effort to get out of bed on a cold and frosty morning when everything they need is free? Comrades Lenin and Stalin had an answer to that. Have you read that book by Solzhenitsyn I recommended a little while ago?

The rich and the powerful are part of the money-go-round. I don't approve of them and doff my cap to no one. I suspect I'm at least as old as you Melv, probably older. I qualify for a free TV licence at the moment but that little item of free money is soon to be taken away from millions by the greedy corporation in order to continue paying some rather fat salaries to lefty presenters.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 12, 2020 3:05 PM BST
If you gave everybody a billion pounds you would create inflation no matter how much over supply you had.

Rather like a toilet roll shortage when supply had been increased
Report melv July 12, 2020 3:24 PM BST
how will you reward them for making the effort to get out of bed on a cold and frosty morning when everything they need is free?

Now you are getting to specific policies. Fortunately the main policy MMT concerns itself with is  the need to  get as many people as possible in full employment.

MMT is not one of those free everything theories. My guess is that if you do not go to work you miss out on all the wonderful goods and services that modern monetarist policies  provide. Tons of highly paid jobs for inventors', planners and all sorts idea wallahs to create better new goods and services............ (IMO mainly services. Dunno about you but I'm bored with goods already. Services; well turning London into something like the best bits of Nice and Marseille would be on my wish list.)................... that people will want to get out of bed to use and earn the money to do so.

I am soon to start researching city planning apparently there was a book written in the 1980's that'll blow my mind man. London could really use a really good "doing up " for a start. A few trillion to spend into the economy right there.

Yeah you guessed it Keynes coined the term "Modern money theory"
Report melv July 12, 2020 3:35 PM BST
If you gave everybody a billion pounds you would create inflation no matter how much over supply you had.

Rather like a toilet roll shortage when supply had been increased



Thats just silly. How many times did I say INFLATION IS TOO MUCH MONEY CHASING TOO FEW GOODS AND SERVICES

One; you don't issue too much money. Two; you create enough goods and services then you issue the money.

You need to sort out your concept of supply and demand. A better example would be the spivs whip were charging a fortune for hand cleaners. Now that's DEMAND exceeding SUPPLY. IMO the government  NEVER build enough houses SO THAT there will be demand fpr housing in excess of supply and price inflation  great for lenders and landlords.  For the rest of us its Turkeys voting for Christmas and we love it; the old house price boom con......effin Turkeys.
Report xmoneyx July 12, 2020 3:36 PM BST
im a blackcab driver - can just about cover costs - never mind wage

rishi wont be getting tax from me this year , mcdonalds students making more

self employed furlough ends * 70% until sept
Report melv July 12, 2020 3:45 PM BST
m a blackcab driver - can just about cover costs - never mind wage

rishi wont be getting tax from me this year , mcdonalds students making more

self employed furlough ends * 70% until sept


If you were working full time then you will be able to get more goods and service than you do now because MMT has to provide more better quality goods and service than you can get now or it wouldn't work. Capitalism needs shortages MMT does not.

( and this doesn't mean working all hours God sends. Obviously hours would be quite short in order to enjoy the abundance of goods and services that minimum wage ( at least ) allows you to enjoy.)
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 12, 2020 3:47 PM BST
It's not silly melv, and I guess you know it
Report melv July 12, 2020 3:49 PM BST
Great example of Capitalism needing shortages by moi. And there are endless other examples.

You need to sort out your concept of supply and demand. A better example would be the spivs whip were charging a fortune for hand cleaners. Now that's DEMAND exceeding SUPPLY. IMO the government  NEVER build enough houses SO THAT there will be demand for housing in excess of supply and price inflation  great for lenders and landlords.  For the rest of us its Turkeys voting for Christmas and we love it; the old house price boom con......effin Turkeys.

MMT has to create abundance.
Report melv July 12, 2020 3:56 PM BST
So issuing so much cash that everyone is  a billionaire. Isn't silly. Explain.


After that show me which bit of my critique of you assertion is wrong. Please. Then I will gladly apologise.

Note MMT is about an abundance of top quality goods and services. Top priority being health, education ( so everyone understands supply and demand) and housing.
Report peckerdunne July 12, 2020 3:57 PM BST
Everyone needs to shitt but the cost of loo roll keeps increasing.........
Report melv July 12, 2020 3:59 PM BST
And that's why capitalism needs shortages.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 12, 2020 4:00 PM BST
You don't need to apologise.

Of course it works in narrow examples, but it doesn't outside that.

Have a proper think about it.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 12, 2020 4:02 PM BST
Toilet roll has only been around less than 200 years

We used to manage without it.
Report melv July 12, 2020 4:10 PM BST
Happy
Report peckerdunne July 12, 2020 4:16 PM BST
Melv, they don't want it, they wont allow.

Capitalism is corrupt, it's not for the greater good, it's deception.

People can dream up whatever they wish but unless you disrupt the heart of the matter nothing will change.

I thought this would be a moment in time for mankind, with the virus and so on, but clearly it's not.........

People would rather cut price vouchers for beer and burgers than do what is required.

CHAOS is what is required..............
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 12, 2020 4:37 PM BST
I think if the virus was more deadly it may have forced a hand or two
Report melv July 12, 2020 5:07 PM BST
I follow Zizek when he says oh films like and events like Tahrir Square and even films like V. for vendette.


He says that you will fail unless you know exactly what you are going to do the day after the revolution it won't work. I also think that if you can't convince enough people that you know what you are going to do after the revolution nobody will join in the first place.

Don't worry about chaos corvid could well be chaos enough. And don't get me started on Climate. A green new worlds got to be better than this one in every way.

I am pushing  MMT to avoid chaos. The world is chaotic enough ta v much. And its usually the bankers, the financiers and the renters who profit from chaos.

But On the Turkeys voting for Christmas cap doffing aspect to your post pecker. Yeah you do wonder why you bovver.
Report Foinavon July 12, 2020 6:03 PM BST
I listened to the first speaker. Nothing new or revolutionary there, just the boring basics.
Why not try a couple of books by Yanis? "Talking to my Daughter: A Brief History of Capitalism". This is a recent update of an earlier primer, or more controversially "The Global Minotaur" where he analyses capitalism post the Great Crash of 1929.
Report Foinavon July 12, 2020 6:13 PM BST
Capitalism doesn't need shortages Melv, spivs do. There is a difference despite what some will say.
Report layingisthewayforward July 12, 2020 7:16 PM BST
I've been to the pub every day this week, never done that before in my life. Only to get the economy going again.
Report peckerdunne July 12, 2020 7:53 PM BST
well one visit wont do it.
Report moondan July 13, 2020 12:51 PM BST
Melv

Get over yourself. The world has enough problems without clowns and hippy's having a second stab at stupidity.

When I was a kid I went to see the clowns and  by the time I was 10 I was glad I left them in the big tent.

By the time I was 15 in 1960 and a hardened Elvis fan I left rock for the romance of the hippy movement.

I am still a big fan of both long after their deaths but always had the intelligence, to know that both were very enjoyable

and harmless fads.

Life was not perfect for anyone but in the 40s and 50s it was a struggle until work became plentyful and gave most a pathway to the 60s.

Only a complete idiot would care to relive the hardships of those days. You do not come over as an idiot so explain yourself.

You would have to be on a bad acid trip to complain too much today, you live in a world of freedoms that were non existent even 40

years ago.

I think it is very hard to say that good has not speeded up considerably and it is still in mid gear, with the foot hard down.
Report Whisperingdeath July 13, 2020 1:25 PM BST
You would have to be on a bad acid trip to complain too much today, you live in a world of freedoms that were non existent even 40

years ago.


I might take issue with that Dan,

The World is changing for the worse. There is not much sense of hope for a bright future. When I was growing up education was pretty good and University was free. The Establishment would take on clever people who had a path to if not riches a good career and income that came with it. A chance to give their kids more than they they had themselves.

I come from a middle class family. I think now even traditional educated middle classes are getting squeezed by the rich and powerful. It is not about intelligence and opportunity anymore. It is about your peers and who you grow up with. If you are and I hate to use the word " entitled ". If you are a family that can buy a house in a good school area your kids will have a better chance.

How many people here really do fear their children or grandchildren not getting onto the property ladder?

Do a Google search. Can you immediately find what you want or are you steered to certain sites?

Job security has all but gone. Zero hours contracts are the acceptable normal.

I think my generation children of the 60's and 70's have had a good run but I feel for younger people. My generation have screwed them. We have also allowed the rich and powerful to squeeze the life out of our society.

Conservatives are doling out Socialism and doing it badly. The World is in flux imho.

Change is coming but I don't know how, where and when but it is coming for better or worse.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 13, 2020 2:26 PM BST
The property ladder is out of reach for so many today.


Back in the day if you owned land it would go to eldest son

No 2 son would probably go to work for church

No 3 would be bought a commission in army

4,5,6 would have to marry into a bit of funding


Now folk with a house will leave it to family, it gets sold to landlords
For quick sale, and divvied up. Might be lucky to buy a caravan with your share.
Report moondan July 13, 2020 2:26 PM BST
Whispering.

I agree with all of that.

The cure is simple get rid of the tories. This past decade has proved their word is worthless and they need controlling by any means.
That is not to say Labour taken over by the left is any better.
I believe Health and housing should be controlled but everything else should left to the free market.
It was said we were a nation of shopkeepers but this past decade it would be more accurate to say a nation of Landlords where housing
has become a investment of choice where rents have gone through the roof and the poor are paying.
The people that need controlling are the tories because as you say they have paved the way for the mighty to rule, or the strong to become mighty.
Middle of the road is a beautiful place when ruled by integrity, where on balance everyone wins.
I have mixed feelings about this country I see its good points but then ridiculous brain washing of its past says to me there is much to hide.
Anyway I do accept every point you made it has much truth and like you change will come but it will need the poor to fight back.
I do not think our leaders are clever and in most cases are clueless so I do think change is not that far offExcited
Report moondan July 13, 2020 2:37 PM BST
You have to laugh,

You said it much better than me. Property ladder is broken and some are made rich but far too many are being kept poor.

It needs intelligent thought but Tories let greed get in the way,  It will end in tears.
Report Whisperingdeath July 13, 2020 2:42 PM BST
Yep but I think we are heading back to the 1930's or 1984.

Divide and rule is easier and any counter revolution will probably need to be well revolutionary. Napoleon will be in charge whether he is right wing or left wing. I fear the counter revolution as much as the those that control us now.

One thing is fo sho we are in for huge Capital Infrastructure Projects as a way out of the impending recession and mass unemployment. Will we be working for slave wages? Will anything change without extreme measures?
Report i_agree_with_nick July 13, 2020 2:49 PM BST
I've said it before but what happens when all the renters who will never own their own home, retire?
Report moondan July 13, 2020 2:52 PM BST
Whispering,

With the likes of Duncan Smith having a say in far too much with regards to Universal Credits its unlikely to prolong a peaceful country.
There will be a price to pay and that is not far off.
The far left and the far right should be treated with utter contempt, either are bad news full stop.
Report Whisperingdeath July 13, 2020 2:59 PM BST
I see the polarisation in America and it is a worry. Years ago I knew of brothers and sisters who wouldn't talk to each other because one voted Bush and one Clinton!

It is getting worse over there and if you wear a face mask in public some people think you are anti democratic!

Attitudes over here are hardening too. You can see the filth that some people have posted on these forums and have been banned. Even my own cricket mob have said some unsavoury things to each other but we get on famously when the cricket is on. One sport where I would have thought racists attitudes would be frowned on would be cricket. People I admire and like a lot saying some nasty things. It does not augur well.

Having said that I do believe in the humanity but it will be a struggle and it is called just that.
Report moondan July 13, 2020 3:02 PM BST
Nick, 
Because that happens,
you would think that an intelligent government would see its a problem in the not too distant future.
Report peckerdunne July 13, 2020 3:14 PM BST
Protectionism of wealth and opportunity.

My son has a great position in a top industry,33 well paid, did everything he was supposed to. SE London his first time buyer option begins at 230,000 and thats not even a family home.

NOTHING WILL CHANGE WITHOUT THE MASSES TAKING TO THE STREETS....

EDUCATION HEALTH HOUSING SHOULD BE MANDATORY

BURN THE BASTARDS OUT ....................NOW.............

I am a moderate.........
Report moondan July 13, 2020 3:26 PM BST
Whispering

Governments need to be held to account, Blue or red.

Here it is getting laughable, the conservatives  have put pressure on the police to pick and choose which crime is cheaper  to progress to the courts and in lots of cases lessen the sentence as jail time is expensive.
This  party system is becoming unworkable as anything can be bought and sold.
The tories like to say they are the party of law and order but they have massively cut police numbers and support staff and it is cheap for them to promise a uturn but they are hardly a party that has a reputation for doing what they say.
Teach them and their supporters there is a price to pay, its the only way to go.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 13, 2020 3:28 PM BST
Renters will have to move into caravans when they retire.

If they are lucky.
Report moondan July 13, 2020 3:30 PM BST
Pecker,

I have sympathy with that view.
Report peckerdunne July 13, 2020 3:35 PM BST
My wife is a special needs teacher Moon, she has done all the courses, works with the most difficult cases,always volunteers,doesn't get paid for the summer holidays.

It makes me sick to the back teeth.............
Report peckerdunne July 13, 2020 3:40 PM BST
We had a cleaning company years back, she kept one very well to do client and works every Saturday. Thats six days a week all year around nearly to make ends meet and well past 50 yrs of age..

makes me sick to the back teeth
Report politicspunter July 13, 2020 3:42 PM BST

Jul 13, 2020 -- 9:14AM, peckerdunne wrote:


Protectionism of wealth and opportunity.My son has a great position in a top industry,33 well paid, did everything he was supposed to. SE London his first time buyer option begins at 230,000 and thats not even a family home.NOTHING WILL CHANGE WITHOUT THE MASSES TAKING TO THE STREETS....EDUCATION HEALTH HOUSING SHOULD BE MANDATORYBURN THE BASTARDS OUT ....................NOW.............I am a moderate.........


Your son seems like a successful hard working guy. Has he considered roles elsewhere, perhaps where he can get better value for his wages in the housing market?

Report i_agree_with_nick July 13, 2020 3:43 PM BST
Presumably the government will pay the rent but how much is that going to cost?

Just some guessing but 2m households @ £7k pa is £14 bn.
Report peckerdunne July 13, 2020 3:53 PM BST
PP Thanks, he is a decent human being, he has a high/middle management position in fraud
investigation,not police...

You have hit the nail on the head. I am very aware of that point and i am driving it home every single day. He has a long term girl  blah blah 

However i follow property markets closely, have sent him a number of options and currently offering to share costs on places here in Ireland at crazy low prices if you know where to look, for the long term, when hopefully their perspectives and priorities change.I want him to act now in the next 15 months or so because i know these opportunities will dwindle rapidly.
Report politicspunter July 13, 2020 4:00 PM BST

Jul 13, 2020 -- 9:53AM, peckerdunne wrote:


PP Thanks, he is a decent human being, he has a high/middle management position in fraudinvestigation,not police...You have hit the nail on the head. I am very aware of that point and i am driving it home every single day. He has a long term girl  blah blah  However i follow property markets closely, have sent him a number of options and currently offering to share costs on places here in Ireland at crazy low prices if you know where to look, for the long term, when hopefully their perspectives and priorities change.I want him to act now in the next 15 months or so because i know these opportunities will dwindle rapidly.


I take it she isn't keen on moving away from where they currently are?

Report peckerdunne July 13, 2020 4:16 PM BST
Correct, but i understand that for now.Also feels he can be a higher earner but i know when he's a little older he may regret that.I think he is risk averse also by nature and his sidekick is not particularly maternal.I have just recently laid out costings for investment and or doer upper over here.I put up halve of everything and it's in his name.
Some areas rent returns versus mortgage cost show a small monthly profit and it can come with maybe an acre of potential..It's a no brainer really, we kind of loosely have agreement with a view to something next spring..

He can have it as a bolt hole if it's a doer upper and i could move in myself even.

lakes mountains golf beach races music culture airport view clean air on doorstep

Let's see.
Report peckerdunne July 13, 2020 4:22 PM BST
Would like to overcome some domicile issues i may encounter.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- July 13, 2020 5:18 PM BST
He can still buy the house in Ireland as a nice investment, might
sharpen his heed too...
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