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15 Dec 19 12:42
Date Joined: 10 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 4,256 | Blogger: ericster's blog
I think is the expression, and it's a fair one I think. Wasn't it he who said that if we had another referendum remainers would win because many of those who voted leave the first time around would be dead now? Implying that it was the greys that had swung it? Well, if we can believe what the papers say, youth came out and voted, bigtime, and I wonder how such damage on a politcal party can ever be repaired.The future's bright, the future's blue, lookin good Bojo.

Okay, I know, what do I know about it all? Not a lot, but we really needed this imo.
Pause Switch to Standard View Blair falls on his sword.
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Report onlooker December 15, 2019 2:35 PM GMT
To 'Fall on your sword' - is a figurative phrase derived from the likes of Roman times when a badly defeated military leader would commit suicide by - quite literally - Falling onto the pointed end of his sword.

Nowadays - It refers more to business leaders  and politicians who have been proven to be entirely wrong, or in the case of business responsible, for  some idea or mechanism that has failed catastrophically.

It is difficult to see the EGOTIST BLAIR ever admitting such failings.
Report Kelly December 15, 2019 3:11 PM GMT
ericster , firstly we are still waiting for a second referendum , so any potential outcome is still in abeyance .

Secondly Blair raised substantial doubts about the course Corbyn was taking the Labour party .  For being 100% correct are you giving him credit ?

Thirdly , Blair was one of the few English politicians who bothered to address the Northern Ireland situation .  Possibly because he was instrumental in the GFA and knows the score . 90% of England have no insight or interest in Northern Ireland , we here know that , but that does not invalidate him ( correctly ) pointing out the issues to those UK citizens unaware of the potential situation . Those considerations effectively held up proceedings for about 2 years , aided and abetted by nonsensical DUP behaviour .

Incorrect assessment of Blair , ericster , you wouldn't be wearing blue spectacles and/or be an acolyte of Cummings and co ?
Report Kelly December 15, 2019 3:47 PM GMT
Hard to name any politicians who are not EGOTISTS .  Goes with the job, particularly nowadays . However we are so lucky that the last comment you could ascribe to Boris and Donald would be to label them EGOTIST . With their level of humility and non bully boy behaviour I suppose  relatively Tony does look like an EGOTIST .
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 15, 2019 4:10 PM GMT
i think their are lots of politicians that are not egotists, but those standing for public office are almost
100% egotists.
Report Dr Crippen December 15, 2019 4:20 PM GMT
Nowadays - It refers more to business leaders  and politicians who have been proven to be entirely wrong, or in the case of business responsible, for  some idea or mechanism that has failed catastrophically.

Correct, but they still have resign in order to complete the situation known as ''falling on their sword.'' 

So the title does not apply to Blair, because in what way has he sacrificed himself?
Report Dr Crippen December 15, 2019 4:27 PM GMT
Correct, but they still have to resign in order to complete the situation known as ''falling on their sword.''
Report sageform December 15, 2019 4:29 PM GMT
I thought that Blair did resign in favour of Gordon Brown? Not so much falling on his sword as knifing Brown in the backLaugh
Report Dr Crippen December 15, 2019 4:29 PM GMT
Blair's idea is flawed anyway.

The perception that people move from left to right in their voting habits as they get older is okay.

But what he fails to point out, is that those right-wingers who die and take their votes with them, along with youngsters new to the scene full of left-wing views, are balanced out by those voters moving into maturity and changing their voting habits.

This must be the case, or the Tories would never get elected.
Report SontaranStratagem December 15, 2019 4:53 PM GMT
Blair is a scumbag who should never be allowed to infest the TV/radio airwaves

He took the people into a war on no evidence, even admitted it

Him being used is on purpose, they know people hate his facking guts and will vote accordingly, its all a big con
Report sageform December 15, 2019 4:54 PM GMT
I must have been born old then.
Report ericster December 15, 2019 8:13 PM GMT
Re: Second referendum,
I thought we just had that with the general election. Bojo and co. made it quite clear what they about. The electorate could have rejected Bojo/cummings and co. but they didn't.

Not looking for a punch-up here, I was merely pointing out that Blair shouldn't have held us greys responsible for brexit vote.
Report Kelly December 16, 2019 2:00 AM GMT
Of the  4 regions in the UK , 2 are more in favour of remaining in the EU than the overall UK vote to leave percentage .

Scotland , where the left/right vote is not the dominant factor at present , returned 48 out of 59 as SNP , who are completely in favour of staying in the EU . Some SNP voters may want to leave , some Conservative and Labour Scottish voters want to remain . Remain however on balance has increased support in Scotland . 

Northern Ireland returned 8 DUP , 9 "nationalist" and 1 Alliance , first time in history that there is not a unionist majority among the 18 MP's . ALL  18 oppose Boris's oven ready deal .  Left/ right irrelevant in Northern Ireland politics .

England , where left/right is the dominant force swung dramatically away from Corbyn , Brexit being the tool used , aided by ineptitude from Labour manifesto and election campaign managers . To equate this swing to support in favour of leave is incorrect , a lot of people who voted for conservative candidates want to remain , but  did not want to waste a vote by supporting Lib Dems , voting for Labour MIGHT have satisfied their desire to indicate remain views , but no guarantee , so they voted conservative even though they preferred remain .

Wales a head scratcher .  Initially overall a leave region , the Labour party's record in Wales did not impress the electorate , so taking increased support for conservatives as an indication of increased leave views is open to question .

What this election proved is that Labour under Corbyn are a busted flush , in the early debate about Brexit I posted Corbyn as useless , at a time when  Boris was proving his ineptitude as Foreign Secretary . Boris has not made a miraculous about turn , but Labour have made him look good electorally , even if he did not measure up in TV debates , funking the most important one in case it showed him up .

Before last Thursday , along with lots of others , I said that this election would not solve the Brexit debate , no matter what way it went . That Boris got such a majority still does not guarantee a satisfactory outcome  , the timescales for Boris's "oven ready" deal may not transpire and UK may be leaving without a deal , which suits no one .

In the event of a no deal  exit , attitudes in Scotland and Northern Ireland in favour of remain will grow even stronger  , and where that leaves the "united" Kingdom is anyones guess . Thinking that delivering Boris's current deal will not pose any problems is pie in the sky , the conflicting views re procedures involved in the "Irish Sea" border indicate that the detail has not been fleshed out satisfactorily .

Boris may signal something via Cabinet appointees.
Report gibmark December 16, 2019 2:12 AM GMT
i think it was a Brexit election , all those labour heartlands that turned blue were leavers , we will get a trade deal with EU , no need for irish sea border , back to normal as it was , it seem to most ,
Report moondan December 16, 2019 2:43 AM GMT
I do not believe a word the papers print.

I do believe that if Labour want to be taken seriously they have to elect somebody as smart as Blair and rid themselves of the loony fringe that has polluted 
its waters.
Presentation is as important as content and Corbyn failed on all fronts and those that were relying on Labour should learn the lessons of this tragedy and wake
up, its not a game.
To have failed to dent such a government as we have endured this past decade is a crime, it speaks volumes about the types who have been allowed to infest
such an important institution.

Starmer is a very obvious choice for my money who looks the part and a female to give the leadership some balance would be a good start.
Report 1st time poster December 16, 2019 5:15 AM GMT
if you believe the right wing media now he,s in power ,erg are getting sidelined and big spending,borrowing,extremely relaxed about,pro immigration is going to be the cameron who couldn't square off the erg and become the tory,s new heir to blair
Report eric_morris December 16, 2019 9:37 AM GMT
Let it go Kelly its over.
Report Kelly December 16, 2019 1:51 PM GMT
Eric Morris , think again . It is only starting . We are on the ground here in N I , some here are not going away you know .  At the end of the day it will not be the ultras who decide our future here , there are more moderates than ultras despite the picture that DUP and Sinn Fein paint . One props up  the other . The fact that the SDLP and Alliance have got a lot of support to return 3 new MP's is largely because of their unambiguous support for remaining in EU . Likewise DUP stance on leave has been disastrous for them , particularly in the way they behaved over last 3 years plus in Westminster . If the only way to remain is by voting for "island unity" only a small number of traditional "unionists" need to vote unity to rejoin EU . If you only read the English press you don't know the feeling here . Farmers have votes .

Scotland is a different kettle of fish , the land border with England would require some form of policing if they rejoined the EU post brexit .  Becoming independent and rejoining the EU in the event of Brexit are 2 different causes . In an evolving climate change interested world , Scottish ability re electricity provision may become an issue . 

And on the electricity theme , Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are closely linked , a substantial amount of electricity crosses the "invisible" border --northwards , not southwards . Why do you think that the DUP saw fit to include a completely impractical suggestion re hooking up with Iceland for electricity ? DUP don't like anything which is connected with the ROI , even invisible electricity .  Heads in the sand .
Report Kelly December 16, 2019 1:57 PM GMT
Eric , short answer to your post is to agree "its over" --for England . History will decide whether for England/UK its the right move , but it will take 20 years plus before any rational verdict is possible on that .
Report mafeking December 16, 2019 4:21 PM GMT
surely we've now seen the end of the MSM wheeling out the likes of blair and major and treating them with ludicrous reverence as though everything they said was gospel when in reality every time they appeared it was only succeeding in piling up tory votes
Report moondan December 16, 2019 4:56 PM GMT
What was ludicrous was Corbyn in his uniform of a hippy in a 60s field and ideas of giving workers 10% of the companies that gave them work and if that isnt insanity,then I dont know what is.
Alice in wonderland stuff could label it very nicely,and it did not end there.

If the labour party does not grow up then the road back is non-existent. NO IFS NO BUTS.

Report moisok December 16, 2019 4:58 PM GMT
they won't stop chuntering  - they lost   we lost - now give it a rest  - I have a headache
Report moondan December 16, 2019 5:05 PM GMT
I hear a reality tablet is good for self inflicted headaches.
Report sageform December 16, 2019 5:18 PM GMT
Corbyn was treated like a popstar 2 years ago. Glastonbury, beard, cap etc. He looked and sounded different and attracted attention. The novelty soon wore off.
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