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Angoose
20 Sep 19 22:37
Joined:
Date Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 24,312 | Blogger: Angoose's blog
Deputy Labour leader Tom Watson has survived a move to oust him by abolishing his post.

The proposal was heard at the party's National Executive Committee on Friday but failed to get the two-thirds majority needed.

It is understood that it was proposed by Jon Lansman, founder of Labour grassroots group Momentum.

A fresh move will be made on Saturday at the party's conference and is expected to be successful.

Momentum was set up to support Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party.

Mr Watson has been at odds with Mr Corbyn over Labour's stance on Brexit.

He wants another public vote on the UK's membership of the EU before any general election, but Mr Corbyn has said an election should come first.

The party leader has refused to say which side he might back in a future Brexit referendum under a Labour government.

A Momentum source told the BBC: "We just can't afford to go into an election with a deputy leader set on wrecking Labour's chances.

"Labour members overwhelmingly want a deputy leadership election, but our outdated rulebook won't let it happen."

The NEC will vote again on abolishing Mr Watson's post at the party's annual conference at 10:00 BST on Saturday.
Sources told BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg they expected the vote to be passed.

There will then be a vote on the conference floor in the afternoon, where it is expected the bid to be approved, ousting Mr Watson.

BBC political reporter Jessica Parker said Mr Watson's supporters were "not overly optimistic" that he will win that Saturday's vote.
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Report Angoose September 21, 2019 9:46 AM BST
Will the position of deputy leader be permanently abolished?
Report impossible123 September 21, 2019 9:54 AM BST
Grassroots = Unions, not Labour electorates. I say stuffed them! Bring back Maggie Thatcher, another clear-out is necessary (again). And, anyone who thinks the next General Election is not about Brexit and Democracy (ie 2016 Referendum) the person is deluded to the extreme.

Stuid! Stupid! Stupid! Any abolition ought to start with the shadow from bench. A spanking is certainly assured for The Labour Party now in the next General Election; another own goal by an Opposition Party after Lib(un)Dem.

Bojo could not have foreseen this gift. Well done The Labour Party!; implosion at a greater rate than the Tories if Watson is deposed.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 9:56 AM BST
imposter123 'Marxist' - explain it or if you don't understand the things you post and are just parroting something you heard on a tory propaganda site just say so.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 10:05 AM BST
Watson is working against the democratically elected leader of his party from becoming PM. That is the issue but most seem to want to say 'infighting' 'the most important thing is to focus on getting rid of the tory government' - well apply that to Watson's campaign against his own party and show you have done so for the past few years or you'll look like hypocrites yourselves.
Report impossible123 September 21, 2019 10:13 AM BST
Marxist "chicken" Corbyn will NEVER graze the carpet of Number 10. Imagine a Marxist as PM and a "Chairman Mao" as Chancellor at Number 10 and Number 11 respectively. That would put the fright into every potential investor, if not the resident cat!

A revolting scenario for the country, if so.
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 10:16 AM BST
Folks, I can see both sides of the argument here but one thing is certain and that is that rows of this nature are going to be extremely damaging to Labour in opinion polls and at the ballot box. Divided parties don't win elections.
Report differentdrum September 21, 2019 10:19 AM BST
The people who are working against Labour policy are actually Kinnock and co who want to pass a deal without it being put back to the people. That is far more at odds with policy than anything Watson is saying. They are the bunch who should be being discussed. Perhaps the leadership has conveniently forgotten about them because they want to facilitate Brexit?

Comments from Butler are not surprising. She is one of those who has been granted a meal ticket. Can't wait to hear from Rayner, Long-Bailey and the others.
Report n88uk September 21, 2019 10:19 AM BST
Total self-destruction from Labour and will do damage even though it sounds like Corbyn will step in to stop it now. Corbyn surrounded by way too many clowns behind the scenes.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 10:22 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 4:16AM, politicspunter wrote:


Folks, I can see both sides of the argument here but one thing is certain and that is that rows of this nature are going to be extremely damaging to Labour in opinion polls and at the ballot box. Divided parties don't win elections.


Yet the torie will !

Report differentdrum September 21, 2019 10:24 AM BST
So has this been carefully orchestrated so he can step in and seemingly show some leadership?
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 10:26 AM BST
Haha ^
Report n88uk September 21, 2019 10:27 AM BST
Doubt it as will still do damage anyway, imagine it's more the threat that he could lose well over 100 MPs and totally end any chances he would have of becoming PM.
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 10:31 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 4:22AM, enpassant wrote:


Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:16AM, politicspunter wrote:Folks, I can see both sides of the argument here but one thing is certain and that is that rows of this nature are going to be extremely damaging to Labour in opinion polls and at the ballot box. Divided parties don't win elections.Yet the torie will !


ep, the tories might not be as one, far from it, but they have a very clear policy on brexit as do the LibDems, SNP, Plaid etc etc.

Report Angoose September 21, 2019 10:34 AM BST
Mr Corbyn's motion says: "The NEC commits to a review of the position of deputy leader and other positions in support of the leader, to increase democratic accountability, and ensure that they reflect the diversity of our society and to explore the scope for gender and other forms of diversity in these positions.

"The review should consider the scope for expanding the number of elected positions in support of the leader and ensuring the process for nomination and election for these positions is broadened and draws on every part of our movement."

A bit of waffle really.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 10:36 AM BST
Ben Bradshaw, a former cabinet minister, called it "totally f***ing insane".

Unison general secretary Dave Prentis tweeted: "Our sole focus at Labour Conference this week should be on taking the fight to Boris Johnson. What we need at this time is unity and a focus on winning the upcoming election.

"Anything else is a betrayal of UNISON members and working people everywhere who are relying on us."
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 10:38 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 4:31AM, politicspunter wrote:


Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:22AM, enpassant wrote:Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:16AM, politicspunter wrote:Folks, I can see both sides of the argument here but one thing is certain and that is that rows of this nature are going to be extremely damaging to Labour in opinion polls and at the ballot box. Divided parties don't win elections.Yet the torie will !ep, the tories might not be as one, far from it, but they have a very clear policy on brexit as do the LibDems, SNP, Plaid etc etc.


That's a different point to the one you made and I commented on pp.

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 10:40 AM BST
Angoose- your focus seems to be absent of criticism of Watson's contempt for the membership and the party leader- where's the balance ?
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 10:43 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 4:38AM, enpassant wrote:


Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:31AM, politicspunter wrote:Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:22AM, enpassant wrote:Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:16AM, politicspunter wrote:Folks, I can see both sides of the argument here but one thing is certain and that is that rows of this nature are going to be extremely damaging to Labour in opinion polls and at the ballot box. Divided parties don't win elections.Yet the torie will !ep, the tories might not be as one, far from it, but they have a very clear policy on brexit as do the LibDems, SNP, Plaid etc etc.That's a different point to the one you made and I commented on pp.


It's very much related though. If potential voters are not clear on where Labour stand on any policy or issue and they see infighting plastered over the media on the very issue that concerns them most then surely that is going to have a direct effect on where they place their cross?

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 10:50 AM BST
Okay but you are moving away from the point you made.
That aside, it is easy when spending so much time on these threads, to believe that brexit is the be-all-and-end-all of peoples everyday lives but that is not so.
As for the media- come on. Whatever they can do to undermine Corbyn they do. If the electorate cannot see that after several years of outlandish smears then they are puppets and there is little anyone can do to help them.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 10:58 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 4:40AM, enpassant wrote:


Angoose- your focus seems to be absent of criticism of Watson's contempt for the membership and the party leader- where's the balance ?


That's a very subjective subject.

However, it is clearly not a good situation when the leader and the deputy leader are so publicly divided, such scenarios rarely occur overnight, they are more likely to result from an accumulation of differences and a breakdown in their relationship over a period of time.

Apportioning blame at this critical stage of the electoral cycle is, I would suggest, unlikely to be beneficial to the chances of the Labour party at the forthcoming election.

The vast majority of the public spend only a small portion of their time pondering the finer points of internal party politics.

I'd imagine that the sight of a bun fight on the eve of a party conference would be unlikely to inspire many to go and undertake any significant background research. Instead, judgements will be formed only from the sight of internal bickering's.

Meanwhile, Johnson, Swinson, and Farage will be rubbing their hands with glee at the sight of a divided party displaying their divisions in such a public manner.

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:03 AM BST
That's fine but I asked where is your balance since you are more informed than 'The vast majority of the public' (this is not a slight or trap comment it is purely to move the point along).
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:06 AM BST
Enpassant comrade yes watson has tried to undermine jeremy but this in not the time for a purge , the enemy is not watson its the tories ffs
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:07 AM BST
The tory lie machine will love this , do not fall into their trap
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 11:11 AM BST
Look, Jeremy and the Labour Party produced a near miracle at the last election to make it so close. However, they are not up against clowns like Theresa Mays advisers on social care, they are not up against the worst campaigner in election history in Theresa herself and they are not up against a LibDem leader getting asked more questions on gay sex and the bible than party policy. This is going to be much tougher.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:15 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:06AM, anxious wrote:


Enpassant comrade yes watson has tried to undermine jeremy but this in not the time for a purge , the enemy is not watson its the tories ffs


We can mess about with the timing and tut away but that will not stop the problem. Rip off the plaster and get to the wound. One election will not mean anything to my children and grandchildren in 20 years time. Watson and his ilk have to be sorted- I say sooner rather than later. Capitalsim is killing the world not brexit. Even the FT is saying so !

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:16 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:11AM, politicspunter wrote:


Look, Jeremy and the Labour Party produced a near miracle at the last election to make it so close. However, they are not up against clowns like Theresa Mays advisers on social care, they are not up against the worst campaigner in election history in Theresa herself and they are not up against a LibDem leader getting asked more questions on gay sex and the bible than party policy. This is going to be much tougher.


Boris Johnson is Labour best asset !

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:16 AM BST
The clown king !
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:17 AM BST
The LD's are taking in bigots into their ranks and losing support from groups from within their party.
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 11:19 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:17AM, enpassant wrote:


The LD's are taking in bigots into their ranks and losing support from groups from within their party.


Westminster voting intention:

CON: 32% (-)
LDEM: 23% (+4)
LAB: 21% (-2)
BREX: 14% (-)
GRN: 4% (-3)

via @YouGov

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:25 AM BST
Look I have read many many of your posts and I know you are a sensible poster that in the main sticks to evidence based opinions. You may recall I have less faith in polls than you do and I have even less faith in Yougov polls than many others. That aside- I am not suggesting that this Watson issue is wonderful timing I am saying it MUST BE DEALT with sooner rather than later. Watson, if allowed will do all he can to scupper a GE campaign- he has to go.
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 11:28 AM BST
To be fair I am not sure what the best thing to do here as far as Labour are concerned but whatever they choose to do, they need to do it as soon as possible.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:30 AM BST
Absolutely agree and my opinion is get rid asap and take the flak- it will be forgotten soon enough.
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:32 AM BST
Jeremy says no peace comrades
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:35 AM BST
Enpassant we have a broad church , ok the moderates maybe we do not always agree but no we cannot silence them . let it be comrade
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 11:36 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:25AM, enpassant wrote:


Look I have read many many of your posts and I know you are a sensible poster that in the main sticks to evidence based opinions. You may recall I have less faith in polls than you do and I have even less faith in Yougov polls than many others. That aside- I am not suggesting that this Watson issue is wonderful timing I am saying it MUST BE DEALT with sooner rather than later. Watson, if allowed will do all he can to scupper a GE campaign- he has to go.


I am not saying Yougov are the one and only, that would be financially disastrous for me from a betting viewpoint. However, since they changed their methodology, their 2017 constituency polling and 2019 EU election polling have been incredibly accurate.

Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:36 AM BST
i disagree with the blairites but let them speak , if we try to get rid we will never gain power
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:38 AM BST
That is Okay when you are betting on the EU election. You have stated previously how the polls changed in the FINAL few days of the last election so they are at best a vague guide of a moment in time. If not we would all be filling our boots.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:39 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:36AM, anxious wrote:


i disagree with the blairites but let them speak , if we try to get rid we will never gain power


Why ?

Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:39 AM BST
Never forget the Establishment who hate the Labour Party and Jeremy in particular will always try to divide and conquer
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:40 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:39AM, anxious wrote:


Never forget the Establishment who hate the Labour Party and Jeremy in particular will always try to divide and conquer


Watson is the establishment.

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:40 AM BST
Never forget that fact.
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:40 AM BST
i dont think we have the numbers , if you force the likes of watson out who is not a blarite then we are finished
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 11:41 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:38AM, enpassant wrote:


That is Okay when you are betting on the EU election. You have stated previously how the polls changed in the FINAL few days of the last election so they are at best a vague guide of a moment in time. If not we would all be filling our boots.


Very fair point.

Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:41 AM BST
Comrade no accept dissenting voices
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:42 AM BST
Do we want farage or the tories to get our loyal voters . no way
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 11:46 AM BST
Look anx- Watson is a virus eating away at the party from the inside. If we do not wholeheartedly support and fight for the radical changes Corbyn wants to bring to this country we (and our children)may loose it for who knows how long. I ask you to join the fight and don't play it safe; Corbyn needs all the help he can muster while the PLP lot against him and the media slander and smear him repeatedly. Appeasement doesn't work, history screams this at us.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 11:53 AM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:03AM, enpassant wrote:


That's fine but I asked where is your balance since you are more informed than 'The vast majority of the public' (this is not a slight or trap comment it is purely to move the point along).


I've previously stated on here that the ongoing rift between Watson and Corbyn is harmful to the Labour party.

As an individual, Watson is entitled to his personal opinions.

However, as Deputy Leader, he owes a certain degree of loyalty to the leader, and should not be seen in public making contradictory statements with the timing and frequency that he does.

I am not privy to the internal discussions at the heart of the Labour Party, I have no idea how the relationship between these individuals plays out behind closed doors. I suspect that it is not pretty.

But an attempt to abolish the position of Deputy Leader is, in my opinion, not the best way to resolve their differences.

I posted the list of previous holders of the post simply to show that their is a long tradition of having a Deputy Leader.
Such positions can, and often do, provide a helpful buffer within an organization.

Ideally, you would like to see these two individuals work out their differences.
Realistically, such a possibility looks highly unlikely to happen.

Your views on what Labour policy should look like is a tad more radical than mine, you are also prepared to take more casualties along the way than I would.

That said, I have no doubt that if we sat down in a room together, we would discover that we have more commonality in our purpose than there are differences. We'd likely, however, have significantly different ideas on the methodology to be employed to get there.

You appear to be willing to take a revolutionary approach, mine would be more evolutionary.

Report differentdrum September 21, 2019 11:55 AM BST
Does anyone in their right mind believe that weasel didn't have any idea of what was going on until this morning?

Then he steps in and 'saves' Watson. That's it was portrayed by a supporter on the news this morning. Perhaps he originally supported the move and then had to act because it had clearly backfired. I suspect that is the most likely explanation.
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:56 AM BST
Enpassant look i a can see your point of view but lets take a deep breadth
Report anxious September 21, 2019 11:57 AM BST
drum wtf are you going on about ffs
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 12:16 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:53AM, Angoose wrote:


Sep 21, 2019 -- 11:03AM, enpassant wrote:That's fine but I asked where is your balance since you are more informed than 'The vast majority of the public' (this is not a slight or trap comment it is purely to move the point along).I've previously stated on here that the ongoing rift between Watson and Corbyn is harmful to the Labour party.As an individual, Watson is entitled to his personal opinions.However, as Deputy Leader, he owes a certain degree of loyalty to the leader, and should not be seen in public making contradictory statements with the timing and frequency that he does.I am not privy to the internal discussions at the heart of the Labour Party, I have no idea how the relationship between these individuals plays out behind closed doors. I suspect that it is not pretty.But an attempt to abolish the position of Deputy Leader is, in my opinion, not the best way to resolve their differences.I posted the list of previous holders of the post simply to show that their is a long tradition of having a Deputy Leader.Such positions can, and often do, provide a helpful buffer within an organization.Ideally, you would like to see these two individuals work out their differences.Realistically, such a possibility looks highly unlikely to happen.Your views on what Labour policy should look like is a tad more radical than mine, you are also prepared to take more casualties along the way than I would.That said, I have no doubt that if we sat down in a room together, we would discover that we have more commonality in our purpose than there are differences. We'd likely, however, have significantly different ideas on the methodology to be employed to get there.You appear to be willing to take a revolutionary approach, mine would be more evolutionary.


Fair enough. There is a lot of debate available to read, watch and listen to on revolution/evolution within the party. My view is that scratching away at the surface has not worked. I do believe however that capitalism is all but dead in the water. We cannot allow the capitalists to tinker about at the edges so as to make it seem all is well as this will prolong the suffering of the poorest in our society. The Labour party moves to socialism or it will die along with the tory party.

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 12:17 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:55AM, differentdrum wrote:


Does anyone in their right mind believe that weasel didn't have any idea of what was going on until this morning?Then he steps in and 'saves' Watson. That's it was portrayed by a supporter on the news this morning. Perhaps he originally supported the move and then had to act because it had clearly backfired. I suspect that is the most likely explanation.


Lowering the debate again diff.

Report enpassant September 21, 2019 12:18 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 5:56AM, anxious wrote:


Enpassant look i a can see your point of view but lets take a deep breadth


Yes let's..........just before we rip that plaster right off ! :)

Report differentdrum September 21, 2019 12:33 PM BST
What exactly is Watson 'guilty' of?

He appears to be 'charged' with highlighting that Labour are rubbish on Brexit and rubbish on anti-semitism.

They are two of the three main reasons why Labour will be slaughtered at the next election. Should you wait until that happens and then say I told you so?

For those on a different planet that isn't lowering debate it is facing reality, something you seem incapable of doing.
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 12:38 PM BST
Change the tune drum !
Report moisok September 21, 2019 12:40 PM BST
Rich man lansom steering the rest of the lecturers and students over a cliff
but think of all that time off when we go back to a non industrial society

Party time!!!!!`
Report moisok September 21, 2019 12:42 PM BST
As a socialist I have never been able to square the circle of socialism in a capitalist world.
Without capitalism we have no taxes to pay for what we want.

lansman who is very well off simply wouldn't understand that
Report moisok September 21, 2019 12:44 PM BST
why are so many leaders in the party have their pockets so well lined

Jemma our leader - Lady Nugee is rolling in it - Abbot   Lansman  Kinnock and Kinnock  Blair  (is he still a member - he certainly is in the media every day)     etc etc
Report thegiggilo September 21, 2019 1:09 PM BST
Labour etter hope there's no election in the near future,any election before the spring they will lose 150 seats easy..
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 1:20 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 7:09AM, thegiggilo wrote:


Labour etter hope there's no election in the near future,any election before the spring they will lose 150 seats easy..


No chance whatsoever of that seat loss happening.

Report thegiggilo September 21, 2019 1:29 PM BST
A hundred is very possible,i think we will see polls woth them all hovering around 20% this weekend,if conference is no good they could drop eve frther..
Report impossible123 September 21, 2019 3:17 PM BST
Irrespective of colour of Party eg Red or Blue the gravy train is just too tasty to pass over without at least having a few nibbles/chunks from it. It's very difficult to distinguish between them at night - socialists dressed in capitalists Savoy Row suits - until they open their gob.

Common sense prevailed (finally) and Watson survived the "purge" otherwise The Labour Party would have surely imploded.
Report jumper3 September 21, 2019 3:18 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 6:44AM, moisok wrote:


why are so many leaders in the party have their pockets so well linedJemma our leader - Lady Nugee is rolling in it - Abbot   Lansman  Kinnock and Kinnock  Blair  (is he still a member - he certainly is in the media every day)     etc etc


As someone in the Labour Party once quipped to me. 'I can afford to be a socialist'. The top of the Labour party is little different in a lot of ways to the rest of society. It does help if you have the best education and solid upper middle class background. They get the best start in life and find themselves weaving an easier path to the top.

That said, with the Lansmans of this world, it is all about the pure socialist way forward.

Report anxious September 21, 2019 4:04 PM BST
Some massive tory fanboys on here  if you dont like it or understand then fook off and support the spivs or farage thenm
Report anxious September 21, 2019 4:04 PM BST
you will not be missed
Report impossible123 September 21, 2019 4:40 PM BST
This is it, is it not?

If one does not support Marxist "chicken" Corbyn or The Labour Party one is labelled a Tory spiv. If one voted to 'Leave' The EU and the Tory Party is the only major Party best placed to carry out the 2016 Referendum Result again one is labelled a Tory spiv; if one had been supporting The Labour Party but no longer because of Marxist "chicken" Corbyn as leader one is labelled a spiv and/or traitor. 

The reality is within The Labour Party there's a large swathe of Labour MPs opposed to Marxist "chicken" Corbyn as leader/leadership, and they are all on the back benches refusing to be part of his regime on the shadow front benches; some even jumped ship and re-settled in the Lib(un)Dem Party.

The irony is despite the implosion of the Tory Party (a sizeable number of Tory MPs resettled in Lib(un)Dem Party) I cannot recall a new recruit for The Labour Party from either the Tories or Lib(un)Dem Party - a very peculiar phenomenon; possibly a lingering stench in The Labour Party - dead fish or dead "chicken", I wonder.
Report anxious September 21, 2019 5:38 PM BST
of course comrade we understand your dilemma
Report anxious September 21, 2019 5:39 PM BST
The incredible sulk maybe
Report enpassant September 21, 2019 5:44 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 10:40AM, impossible123 wrote:


This is it, is it not? If one does not support Marxist "chicken" Corbyn or The Labour Party one is labelled a Tory spiv. If one voted to 'Leave' The EU and the Tory Party is the only major Party best placed to carry out the 2016 Referendum Result again one is labelled a Tory spiv; if one had been supporting The Labour Party but no longer because of Marxist "chicken" Corbyn as leader one is labelled a spiv and/or traitor.  The reality is within The Labour Party there's a large swathe of Labour MPs opposed to Marxist "chicken" Corbyn as leader/leadership, and they are all on the back benches refusing to be part of his regime on the shadow front benches; some even jumped ship and re-settled in the Lib(un)Dem Party. The irony is despite the implosion of the Tory Party (a sizeable number of Tory MPs resettled in Lib(un)Dem Party) I cannot recall a new recruit for The Labour Party from either the Tories or Lib(un)Dem Party - a very peculiar phenomenon; possibly a lingering stench in The Labour Party - dead fish or dead "chicken", I wonder.


You don't understand the term Marxist so please do stop using it until you do, there's a good fellow.

Report flushgordon1 September 21, 2019 5:48 PM BST
Marxist,marxist,marxist and spencerist.
Report flushgordon1 September 21, 2019 5:49 PM BST
The can as only been kicked down tha road comrades fat tom will just cause more trouble at t mill!
Report anxious September 21, 2019 5:52 PM BST
the tory turncoat bells WhoopsWhoopsWhoops
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 7:31 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 7:29AM, thegiggilo wrote:


A hundred is very possible,i think we will see polls woth them all hovering around 20% this weekend,if conference is no good they could drop eve frther..


https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=Walsall+South

Labour won 262 in the 2017 general election. I thought I would check to see how bad it would have to become for them to lose 100 seats. Above is a link to Labours 162nd safest seat. That doesn't look like a stonewall certain hold to me.

Report thegiggilo September 21, 2019 7:55 PM BST
Have already looked at the top 100 marginals,i said before all the places they are 5/6 in these seats i will be taking them on they are going to be false prices in these seats on current pollig,they need a miraculous recovery to avoid losing by a majority..Looks like 1983 to me have bee saying it since the beginning of the year.
Report flushgordon1 September 21, 2019 8:07 PM BST
Looks like 1984 to me.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 8:23 PM BST
Labour won 28 seats from the Conservatives in the 2017 general election, Electoral Calculus currently has only 6 of these as holds, the other 22 being Conservative gains.
Similarly, Labour gained six seats from the SNP, all six are shown as being recaptured by the SNP.
On the flip side, Labour lost six seats to the Conservatives, all six are being predicted as Conservative holds.

A lot will change between now and a general election, but it is clear that Labour have a lot of work to do.
And whether enpassant likes it or not (and we know he doesn't), the mixed message over Brexit is unlikely to help their cause.

Where does Labour make gains to compensate for these predicted losses, it is far from obvious.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 8:28 PM BST
The five Lib Dem gains from the Conservatives in 2017 are all being predicted as safe Lib Dem holds.
Report thegiggilo September 21, 2019 8:31 PM BST
They can't make any gains it's impossible,the best they can hope for is liberals winning loads off the tories and SNP wiping out the tories and that would be for a minority government if they are lucky,johnson has bee a bigger disaser than i exoected in such a short period of time yet going up in the polls or staying the samw..You will never change the minds of those 35% of brexit fanatics ,regardless of policys etc so there is no votes to win i can see labour losing seas wgwre they have 8,000 majorotys,at the moment looks like the liberals are enabling this as well all they want are more seats,if thats the case then its a wipe out..
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 8:35 PM BST
What about the Brexit Party though? If they field a candidate in every seat anything could happen.
Report anxious September 21, 2019 8:36 PM BST
gig i know you are approaching  this from a wager point of view good luck with that , but stay calm wait for the real,race to start
Report anxious September 21, 2019 8:37 PM BST
Jeremy will destroy bulingdon in an election campaign
Report anxious September 21, 2019 8:37 PM BST
without his minders bulingdon will be fooked
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 8:37 PM BST
Some of the rest of us have pretty substantial wagers also!
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 8:51 PM BST
Robert Ford, Sat 21 Sep 2019

Yet the differences between 2017 and 2019 are hard to ignore. The Lib Dems are far stronger now, driven by a positive public response to their strident Remain position. They have secured defections from both parties, have an uncompromising pro-EU stance, and a fresh face to present to the electorate. Memories of the coalition have faded, and a repeat of Tim Farron’s misfiring 2017 election campaign is unlikely.

Labour should worry that a 2019 campaign will be less like 2017 and more like 2010, when the contrast between a fresh young Nick Clegg and two unpopular main party leaders fuelled a campaign surge for the Lib Dems. If such a surge were to happen, it could feed on itself, as polls showing the Lib Dems ahead of Labour encourage further defections from Remain voters who no longer feel they have to accept second best from Labour. The logic of the two-party squeeze could be thrown into reverse. Such dramatic shifts look implausible, but these are volatile times. Labour delegates have plenty to ponder.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/21/labour-resurgent-liberal-democrat-headache
Report thegiggilo September 21, 2019 8:52 PM BST
I couldn't care less about bets on it,i made more in two days last week than those bets would bring me i'm just stating what i see as being obvious,infact things could get even worse for labour if conference isn't brilliant next week they could plummett even further..
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 8:55 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 2:51PM, Angoose wrote:


Robert Ford, Sat 21 Sep 2019Yet the differences between 2017 and 2019 are hard to ignore. The Lib Dems are far stronger now, driven by a positive public response to their strident Remain position. They have secured defections from both parties, have an uncompromising pro-EU stance, and a fresh face to present to the electorate. Memories of the coalition have faded, and a repeat of Tim Farron’s misfiring 2017 election campaign is unlikely.Labour should worry that a 2019 campaign will be less like 2017 and more like 2010, when the contrast between a fresh young Nick Clegg and two unpopular main party leaders fuelled a campaign surge for the Lib Dems. If such a surge were to happen, it could feed on itself, as polls showing the Lib Dems ahead of Labour encourage further defections from Remain voters who no longer feel they have to accept second best from Labour. The logic of the two-party squeeze could be thrown into reverse. Such dramatic shifts look implausible, but these are volatile times. Labour delegates have plenty to ponder.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/21/labour-resurgent-liberal-democrat-headache


LibDems lost seats in the 2010 election.

Report Angoose September 21, 2019 9:04 PM BST
Yes they did, but going from 62 to 57 still represented a good return.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 9:06 PM BST
Whilst they wouldn’t admit it publicly, they’d likely be delighted with 57 in the next general election.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 9:09 PM BST
No idea what the polling was around the 2010 campaign, but I reckon the article is referring to an improvement during the campaign.
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 9:15 PM BST
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2010_United_Kingdom_general_election

LibDems actually led the polls during the campaign.
Report Angoose September 21, 2019 9:17 PM BST
Was just looking at that, Lib Dem’s went from 17% in early April to 33 mid month before falling back to 24.
Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 9:18 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 3:06PM, Angoose wrote:


Whilst they wouldn’t admit it publicly, they’d likely be delighted with 57 in the next general election.


There are about six seats in Scotland that they had that are gone now along with most others to the SNP.

Report politicspunter September 21, 2019 9:19 PM BST

Sep 21, 2019 -- 3:17PM, Angoose wrote:


Was just looking at that, Lib Dem’s went from 17% in early April to 33 mid month before falling back to 24.


Cleggs performance at the first debate was driving their polling.

Report Angoose September 21, 2019 9:20 PM BST
Oh how public perception can change Grin
Report mafeking September 22, 2019 12:15 AM BST
brown had already been written off by everyone except absolute labour die hards and cameron was not entirely trusted as seen by his failure to win a majority in 2010 in what should have been an open goal against a tired labour government under a hopeless leader which had long since run out of steam
Report sageform September 22, 2019 8:16 AM BST
Remaining in the EU will destroy both Tories and Labour which is why Labour still sit on their hands.
Report differentdrum September 22, 2019 12:08 PM BST
Obviously, remaining in the EU is a huge negative for the Tories although given the state of the opposition I am not sure it is fatal.

Perhaps you can explain why it destroys Labour when most of its supporters want to remain? And please don't come up with the northern argument as you would likely lose far more remainers than hold on to leavers.

The worse thing Labour could do is facilitate Brexit. When your best option is damage limitation you are in a terrible position but that move would surely destroy them.

Labour are sitting on their hands because they have a leadership who want to facilitate Brexit but are not honest enough to admit it. The stance continues to embarrass them on a daily basis.
Report impossible123 September 22, 2019 4:03 PM BST
Labour are cooked. Their procrastination has pinned them into a corner already occupied by the unequivocal Lib(un)Dem, and Brexit is no go either (now) as the Tories are truly entrenched; damage limitation is the best option for them, and wave goodbye to a victory in the next General Election - thank goodness. A neutral position has taken too long to arrive at, and is seen as indecisiveness and clueless which can only cement the negative opinions of the electorate of their leader "chicken" ultra-left socialist Corbyn.

Which brings it back to the significance of the Result of 2016 Referendum eg is it 'Bad for The UK', 'Good for The UK', or its 'Impact on Democracy'? This will be at the forefront of the electorate in the impending General Election, not the Political Parties and definitely not the spineless and carp MPs.
Report politicspunter September 22, 2019 5:29 PM BST
Drivel.
Report casemoney October 4, 2019 11:51 PM BST
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49933843

Watson needs to be Shifted , As soon as Pedo Nick was exposed he should have resigned , Scandalous this man still hold a seat

in the House ...
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