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n88uk
07 Sep 19 21:36
Joined:
Date Joined: 26 May 12
| Topic/replies: 187,835 | Blogger: n88uk's blog
https://twitter.com/AmberRuddHR/status/1170429481879842817

Finally found some morals.
Pause Switch to Standard View Amber Rudd resigns and gives up...
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Report edy September 8, 2019 1:37 PM BST
Even tellers were provided.
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 1:37 PM BST
Maybe, but if all of her Conservative colleagues had also voted to leave, she would have asked for her vote to be voided. She's an undemocratic Remoaner. She must be, because that's what the forum is telling us.
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 1:38 PM BST
It is also undemocratic to protest in regard to democratic purges of Remoaners who also voted to leave three times.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 2:00 PM BST
The so called Remainers who voted for May's deal did so because they knew it would not go through.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 2:02 PM BST
Don't forget May's two main supporters where Hammond and Lidington. Arch remainers.
Report edy September 8, 2019 2:02 PM BST
Or maybe they actually wished to respect The Will of the Real People despite their personal believe that it would harm the UK more than it would reap benefits.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 2:03 PM BST

Sep 8, 2019 -- 8:00AM, brigust1 wrote:


The so called Remainers who voted for May's deal did so because they knew it would not go through.


Utter rubbish.

Report Angoose September 8, 2019 2:06 PM BST
Yes they did, they are well know for their clairvoyant powers
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 2:10 PM BST
It's probably why May voted for it as well.
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 2:11 PM BST
But not Boris.
Report potlis September 8, 2019 2:22 PM BST
Amber Rudd standing as a "independent Conservative" , not possible is it?

My understanding is you are allowed to call yourself an independent Conservative if you are already a member of the House, but at any upcoming GE you will not be allowed on the Ballot paper as such, Registration Of Political Parties Act 1998.

If that's correct Rudd would be more likely to split the remain vote than the leave if she stands in Hastings and Rye, even the seagulls in Hasting know Rudds a remainer.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 3:10 PM BST
You don't think Remainer May put a deal to Parliament she contrived in her back kitchen without the advice of Brexit advisers she knew would not get through. Ffs it was smashed up when they voted on it.
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 3:19 PM BST
That's one view of the world, just not one supported by facts and reality.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 4:16 PM BST
Your idea of facts and reality beggars belief Ang. No wonder you are confused.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 4:18 PM BST
You really think MP's don't know when a vote is lost by 149 votes? They must be completely clueless then.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 4:19 PM BST
And you are voting for these MP's who don't know?
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 4:41 PM BST
"May put a deal to Parliament she contrived in her back kitchen without the advice of Brexit advisers she knew would not get through"

Do you have evidence of the deal being contrived in her back kitchen?
Do you have the names and political leanings of the individuals who worked on the deal?
Do you have insight in to the mind of Theresa May and do you really believe that she thought it would fail?

Don't forget that MV3 failed to pass by 286 to 344, a losing majority of 58.
Thirty four conservative MP's voted against it, if they had voted for it, it would have passed with a majority of ten.

Please explain how that stacks up with your statement repeated above?
Report politicspunter September 8, 2019 4:48 PM BST
Apparently, someone else in the cabinet about to pack it in. Nicky Morgan would seem the likely favourite.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 6:46 PM BST
I am not going to fight the referendum Ang. I will leave you with your gang of liars, cheats, back stabbers, bad losers and chancers all allies of the EU and quite happily continue to support Her Majesty's Government and the will of the people of the country of my birth and my home.
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 7:02 PM BST
Your choice to opt not to continue with the debate, and also your choice not to offer up any answers to support your statements.

The language that you have used to describe fellow citizens of the country of your birth is highly unlikely to be conducive to healing the harmful divisions that this episode continues to create.

It is, however, aligned to the language being liberally spouted by the elected rulers of the land.
Does that give it legitimacy ?

For the future wellbeing of the country, lets hope not.
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 7:22 PM BST
You have aligned yourself with MP's who have crapped on the very Party that has given them a very good living for years, a Labour Party even their allies wouldn't back to get into power, the SNP who only want to ditch their/ our country at the earliest opportunity, the Lib Dems who when they did get in power turned on the very people who put them there. Let us not forget Blair who cheated his own country to support the US and caused 10s of thousands to lose their lives for nothing. Or the Heseltine's of this world who tried to stab his boss in the back then lost the job he coveted to John Major. A shining star if see one. The Speaker who misused the very job that has given him a brilliant living just because he thought he could. Oh! And let us not forget the EU who have done everything in their power to make the will of the UK fail. And will do everything they can to thwart our wished as long as it suits their own agenda.
None of the people you have aligned yourself with have any credibility and you are welcome to every single one of them. They are no loss to me.
Report 1st time poster September 8, 2019 7:47 PM BST
if all the erg had voted for mays deal in mv3 would Brexit have been voted through,that much water gone under bridge since ive forget
Report 1st time poster September 8, 2019 7:48 PM BST
34 mp,s needed to change their mind,did 34 erg vote against mv3
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 8:14 PM BST

Sep 8, 2019 -- 1:22PM, brigust1 wrote:


You have aligned yourself with MP's who have crapped on the very Party that has given them a very good living for years, a Labour Party even their allies wouldn't back to get into power, the SNP who only want to ditch their/ our country at the earliest opportunity, the Lib Dems who when they did get in power turned on the very people who put them there. Let us not forget Blair who cheated his own country to support the US and caused 10s of thousands to lose their lives for nothing. Or the Heseltine's of this world who tried to stab his boss in the back then lost the job he coveted to John Major. A shining star if see one. The Speaker who misused the very job that has given him a brilliant living just because he thought he could. Oh! And let us not forget the EU who have done everything in their power to make the will of the UK fail. And will do everything they can to thwart our wished as long as it suits their own agenda. None of the people you have aligned yourself with have any credibility and you are welcome to every single one of them. They are no loss to me.


Who do you align yourself with ?

Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 8:24 PM BST
As I said I am happy to stand alongside Her Majesty's Government who are trying to implement the will of the people while the opposition who promise to accept the will of the people do everything they can to thwart it. And the people themselves who voted in good faith. I am quite happy to leave you to align yourself with the groups reneging on their promises and the mass of bad losers they think they represent. And of course the EU who have wined and dined off the currency we have paid into them over the years and now, by way of thanks, are doing everything they can to embarrass and deceive.
Report 1st time poster September 8, 2019 8:30 PM BST
a bloke from mars phoned lbc radio and said how come its remoaners voting 3 times for a deal, labour leavers advocating Norway plus and getting mrs mays deal back on table, whilst long life erg brexiteers just keep voting everything off the table
Report edy September 8, 2019 8:41 PM BST
If somehow MV4 makes it to parliament, and it looks super close and like it could actually pass - do we expect Amber Rudd, Rory Stewart and others to suddenly vote against it?
Report 1st time poster September 8, 2019 8:43 PM BST
NO, imo
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 8:48 PM BST
brigust, if Boris brings back Theresa May”s deal, the one she cooked up in her back kitchen, will you continue to stand behind Her Majesty’s government ?
Report thegiggilo September 8, 2019 9:12 PM BST
They'd be absolutely seething,love to see farages face...Cool
Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 9:31 PM BST
I have always thought May's deal would come back with maybe a few tweaks.
Report impossible123 September 8, 2019 10:02 PM BST
Despite the "implosion" of the Tories "chicken" Corbyn is still not wanting a General Election. How absurd is that? Any other Labour leader in Opposition would have grasped that with both hands. Anything to do with his present "popularity"?

A "defined" version of Brexit? That can only come from a 'Remainer' who's yet to accept the 2016 Referendum result...3 years down the line.
Report politicspunter September 8, 2019 10:11 PM BST
No one wants a general election.
Report mafeking September 8, 2019 10:28 PM BST
i assume you mean this thoroughly discredited and rotten parliament when you say no one. the country outside the westminster bubble begging to turf out as many of these people as as possible and the sooner the better
Report Angoose September 8, 2019 10:34 PM BST

Sep 8, 2019 -- 3:31PM, brigust1 wrote:


I have always thought May's deal would come back with maybe a few tweaks.


Ok, but will you continue to stand behind Her Majesty’s government when it is?

Report brigust1 September 8, 2019 10:59 PM BST
Absolutely. It is exactly what I expected without all of the back stabbing by the bad losers. May went for a deal. They stitched her up. She was not great at her job and resigned. Boris won the election on his Brexit credentials and has been very open about what he wants to achieve. Still the bad losers dog him every way they can. Notice it is not a coincidence that they are all staunch remainers (bad losers).
The country voted to leave and since Boris has been the PM the Conservative brand has risen in the polls. That is not a coincidence.
Notice, unlike the Brexiteer's, these (bad losers) are not trying to get a better deal they are trying to stop Brexit.

The country was split about 50/50. Had the sacked Conservatives been 50/50 that would have been in line with the country but they weren't. Had the resigners been 50/50 like the vote that would have been different. They aren't the are all Remainers (bad losers).
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:28 PM BST
Boris hasn't won any election.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:33 PM BST
In fact nearly everything in that post is wrong. May wasn't stitched up by the remainers, she was stitched up by the leavers, she set her red lines to appeal to the ERG rather than working with the majority remain parliament, they then didn't even vote for her deal when she brought it back. If May had actually worked with the remain camp we'd have left by now.

Boris has risen in the polls, but to a lesser extent than Theresa May did when she become PM. Boris has also mostly overseen a period whereby parliament hasn't been sitting so has faced minimal scrutiny and week 1 of being scrutinised it's all fallen apart badly for him, because he's only good when he can spout his pre-prepared scripts unopposed, not when he has to actually debate.

Boris isn't trying to get a deal by most accounts, whereas plenty of the remainers still are, Labour are working on one, as seemingly is the Rory Stewart camp of Tory rebels.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:35 PM BST

Sep 8, 2019 -- 4:28PM, mafeking wrote:


i assume you mean this thoroughly discredited and rotten parliament when you say no one. the country outside the westminster bubble begging to turf out as many of these people as as possible and the sooner the better


Earlier this week there was a poll saying like 70% of Tory voters don't want a GE, and generally people don't want one. I assume reasoning being leavers associate it GE with = more delay and remainers think it won't solve anything/don't like the options/depends when the q was asked as the GE call Tories are calling atm is an obvious trap.

Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:36 PM BST

Sep 8, 2019 -- 2:41PM, edy wrote:


If somehow MV4 makes it to parliament, and it looks super close and like it could actually pass - do we expect Amber Rudd, Rory Stewart and others to suddenly vote against it?


No, will 100% vote for it. MV4 passing basically hinges on the government supporting it, if they do it will pass, if they don't no chance.

Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:36 PM BST
Brigust is referring to his election by the Tory party.
He has of course offered to put that result and Brexit etc to the people but Corbyn, Swinson and Blackford have said no despite crying out for the people to be asked to decide in recent months/years . Cluck, cluck and cluck.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:37 PM BST
Because it's a trap. Given the SNP and Lib Dems will profit greatly from an election there's no real reason for them to turn it down otherwise.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:39 PM BST
The motions Boris has put forward so far have no binding date to them, he can just set the election date in a way to ensure no deal with parliament unable to do anything as it's dissolved, hence a trap.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:39 PM BST
… And the back stabbers are or were  of course fellow Tories so nowt wrong with  the post.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:39 PM BST
… And the back stabbers are or were  of course fellow Tories so nowt wrong with  the post.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:41 PM BST
Nearly all of those Tories have voted for the deal 3x, only 4 of them haven't ever voted for it, that's more times than a lot of the current government voted for it.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:43 PM BST
Doesn't matter what Boris is doing n88uk.
Those opposing him have continually shouted for it to go to the people to decide.
Now they have the chance to let the people decide and. They refused and are now making the decision for them.
Hypocrisy.
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:45 PM BST
Boris offered them a second referendum?
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:45 PM BST
It clearly does matter what Boris is doing when he can just engineer it as a way to force through no deal. Funny thing is Tories clearly thought Corbyn would fall for it and wouldn't see through it. Those people will happily vote for an election once they get an extension.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:45 PM BST
Let the people decide they shouted. Okay we'll put it to them in a GE. No, we know best. Hypocrites.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:47 PM BST
It's kinda the problem when you don't have a majority, that you no longer control proceedings, something Boris is only just finding out it seems.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:51 PM BST
Vote mid October as offered.
If the Tory and Brexit Parties get enough votes to form a government we leave. If not we stay.
Let the people decide. Stop being cowards.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:52 PM BST
Yes but that's taking Boris' word, you know the perennial liar Boris Johnson, there is nothing binding him to that date.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:53 PM BST
No what Boris is just finding out is that there are more undemocratic MPs than he realised.
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:53 PM BST
Has Boris ever walked back on his word?
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:53 PM BST
or otherwise lied?
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:54 PM BST
Boris Becker, not Boris Johnson. We all know Johnson lies all the time.
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:55 PM BST
Yes but that's taking Boris' word,

If Boris proposes a date and parliament agrees ti it it cannot in law be changed.
So how is that 'taking his word for it'?
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:56 PM BST
the vote that they had did not contain a set date, nor will the that is coming up. It would indeed have to be Johnson's word.
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:56 PM BST
I.e the set of the election would have been set at Boris' discretion after the vote.
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:56 PM BST
*the day of the election would
Report akabula September 8, 2019 11:57 PM BST
Right I'll leave you with this

JFC
Report edy September 8, 2019 11:58 PM BST
That's a good reply to having gotten stuff wrong yet again.
Report n88uk September 8, 2019 11:59 PM BST
You cannot propose a date under the FPTA that Boris keeps proposing. It goes against the FPTA, so one might wonder why he keeps using that method to propose his election if the date is in stone.
Report thegiggilo September 9, 2019 12:05 AM BST
Doris mugabe..
Report mafeking September 9, 2019 2:51 AM BST
hardly matters. labour just delaying the inevitable and gonna be destroyed whenever it is
Report 1st time poster September 9, 2019 5:32 AM BST
we no brexiteers are scrambling about trying to coin a phrase regain control,but it really is a non story,there isn't an opposition mp,alive or dead who,d accept an offer of an election at this time, brexiteers need to get their head around it
Report brigust1 September 9, 2019 8:32 AM BST
I don't think I have read more ignorant comments. Especially from n88. Goodness me, where have you been? Thrashing about blaming everyone except the Remainers (bad losers).

May agreed a deal that she knew would be throwing her main alliance Party the DUP under a bus. She knew the Labour Party only wanted a General Election and would vote against anything, she knew the SNP snakes only wanted a Independence Referendum and she knew the Lib Dems were the Stop Brexit Party. She knew when she agreed the deal it would never pass.
She is an arch Remainer (bad loser) and lied repeatedly to the Country.
What the Bad Losers (remainers) on here cannot grasp is that this is a small group of the so call Intellectual Elite in Parliament who are using them to thwart the will of the people. I voted to leave and would have accepted the vote had I lost. I voted for Corbyn at the last election and accepted the vote when I lost. That is Democracy. A rude word for the Bad Losers (Remainers).
Report edy September 9, 2019 9:40 AM BST
In what way does the withdrawal agreement May agreed to throw the DUP under a bus?
Report brigust1 September 9, 2019 9:41 AM BST
Typical BBC News. 'Let us see what the people think outside the Westminster bubble. We will go to Plymouth (overwhelmingly voted to leave)' and spoke to three people, two confirmed Bad Losers (remainers) and a leaver. How is that Democratic?
Report brigust1 September 9, 2019 9:47 AM BST
May suggested the Irish Backstop. The nub of the problems.
This is why the backstop—a legal guarantee that whatever happens there will be no hard border in Northern Ireland—is seen as necessary, both by the EU and Theresa May. There are technical solutions and ideas out there, and they can certainly help.
Report edy September 9, 2019 10:09 AM BST
Help is not the same as solve.

In what way does the Irish backstop throw the DUP (and Northern Ireland?) under a bus?
Report Angoose September 9, 2019 10:12 AM BST
brigust, on this thread you have criticised May's deal before going on to support the very same deal now that May is no longer PM
Can you please help me understand this apparent contradiction.

Boris twice voted against it before voting for it on the third occasion it was put to parliament.
He would argue that circumstances had changed in the time that elapsed between the votes.

You argued contradictory cases within the space of two hours.
Report brigust1 September 9, 2019 1:18 PM BST
Ang I don't like May's deal but it is not up to me. I think Boris will bring back and amended May's deal. I want us to leave any way we can but hopefully with a deal. And I think Boris thinks the same. He voted eventually for May's deal an did Rees Mogg because he wanted a deal and not no deal.
I see nothing wrong with wanting everything but having to accept something.
Report Angoose September 9, 2019 1:31 PM BST
Fair enough, appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I think that we can all agree that the general mood of the general public is that they, to quote Boris, "want Brexit done".
Problem is, passing May's deal or leaving with no deal does not get Brexit done.

I am not so sure that this is fully understood and appreciated by the general public.
Anyone trying to point this out will be dismissed on several grounds, and the populist argument will rumble on.
Report brigust1 September 9, 2019 1:44 PM BST
It does worry me when Remainers keep saying 'I don't think they understand'. Do you realise how insulting that is. I never say you didn't understand what you were voting for only the Remainers say that. They, apparently on mass, were the only people who understood what they were voting for.
Report Angoose September 9, 2019 2:37 PM BST
brigust, you've chosen to twist the words I have posted, that is your choice.

Will just ask you one more question.

Do you believe that the entire adult population of the United Kingdom are fully aware of the volume of legal agreements that would require to be negotiated and finalised in the event of leaving the EU in whatever circumstances we leave, and the time that it may take to do so?

I am one such member of the adult population of the United Kingdom and I will put my hand up and state that I am not fully aware of the details and time required for such arrangements to be completed.

What I am aware of is that it will be a very large number of agreements and that it will take a significant period of time.
It appears to be a perfectly reasonable and pertinent factor to be considered in nay future referendum or general election.

If in the act of bringing this to the notice of other adult members of the population of the UK I am to be accused of being insulting, I really do need to wonder why this might be.
Report impossible123 September 9, 2019 3:49 PM BST
Angoose, with due respect what does leave mean? It means to get out. Does it say to get out with conditions. No, it does not - it just means to get out only. What do you not understand?

The government did not say if the result was 51/49 in favour of 'Leaving' we 'Leave' with a 'Deal', and, if 52/48 in favour we 'Leave' with or without a 'Deal'. Maybe I'll try and put it in another way eg you need to pass an assessment to join an institution. If you pass, you join; if you fail, you cannot join. It's that simple. Have you heard of the saying...less is more or keep it simple, stupid. Otherwise, it could be opened to interpretation.

3 things are clear eg:-

1) The Opposition Parties do not want us to 'Leave' The EU otherwise they would have voted for Mrs May 'Deal' no matter how unjust it was.
2) The EU do not want us to 'Leave' either - they might hate us - but they "love" and need our hefty annual (net) contribution too much.
3) The 'backstop' is The EU's guarantee The UK cannot 'Leave' The EU (altogether) as it ties us into the European Union, Customs Union
   and European Single Market.

As no definitive period for the duration of 'backstop' either meaning it can still be in force after 10/20 years (at the mercy of The EU) whilst a Trade Agreement with The EU is still being negotiated. The EU having the upper hand on all fronts.

If The EU give a definitive timeline about the duration of the 'backstop' or The UK can unilaterally end it legally after that period, or renegotiate for an earlier date if The UK choose to I've little doubt the Brexit impasse will be no more.
Report brigust1 September 9, 2019 4:10 PM BST
Behave yourself Ang. You were bringing it to the notice of the Leavers. You agree with the (Bad Losers) Remainers that is why you don't question their motives.
Do I care how long it takes to get the deals sorted out? Absolutely not. I will leave that to my Government. Thank you.
Report Angoose September 9, 2019 4:29 PM BST
impossible123, with all due respect to yourself, it is simply not possible to just leave
the act of leaving requires a process to be followed, this process requires attention to the details and conditions by which you leave

I note that there is a desire here to bring my comments back to the original referendum.
To a certain degree, that is somewhat inevitable.

However, my questions were in regard to the current situation that we find ourselves in.

Whilst it may be desirable to ignore the conditions by which we progress from this current state, progress to any future state, whatever that may look like, requires attention to the very conditions that you are suggesting we do not require to concern ourselves with.

brigust, I was making a post on a forum that, in the greater scheme of things, nobody reads, lets not imagine that our posts on here matter a jot.
Those who do read them can be from any side of the debate.

You state that you don't care how long it might take to have future arrangements sorted out. Again, that is your choice.
Well, I do care, that is my choice.

I will continue to participate in debates as a very consequence of that fact that I care, even with those who state that they don't care.
Report impossible123 September 9, 2019 4:46 PM BST
Angoose, with due respect again I'd like the MPs to carry out the result of the 2016 Referendum ie to 'Leave'. I do not care how they do, but just do it - they have ample opportunities yet they would not (not could not). The MPs are working on our behalf, not theirs; if unable please sod-off.

Just keep it simple: 'Leave' means 'Leave' - there is no ambiguity at all. Democracy takes precedence before others otherwise a vote is nothing more than a piece of paper with ticks.
Report Angoose September 9, 2019 5:41 PM BST
I strongly suspect that we are unlikely to reach agreement on this, but I am grateful that we are able to exchange views in a respectful manner.

I absolutely take your point that it is up to the House of Parliament to sort out the very complex details of the mechanics of leaving the EU.
That is exactly what they are there to do as the elected representatives of the nations democracy, expected to act in the best interests of the country.

It is abundantly clear, however, that they have been unable to do so.

There are undoubtedly many factors that have contributed to this failure, many of them emotionally charged as witnessed on this forum and in wider society.

However, it is difficult to ignore that one of the key factors is the complexity of the details required to be examined.

For example, look at the backstop, a major source of disagreement for many of those most determined to leave the EU.

There are many other complex issues to be resolved to allow the UK to leave, we've had numerous possible solutions to the complex area of future trading arrangements for example.

Whatever way you look at it, there are many complex issues to be resolved.

Upon examination of any complex issue, it is not unreasonable to imagine that views that were held at the beginning of the process may alter during the process. They may even alter many times.

What was originally believed to be an effective solution, may upon examination no longer be believed to be an effective solution after all.   
This applies to individual components of the overall complex issue , as well as the overall issue itself.

This is, in itself, not an argument for overturning the results of the 2016 referendum.

It is, however, the expression of a point of view in regard to the lengthy period of time already taken to date to fail to arrive at a solution to the complex issue of Brexit.

It aint easy, and the steps that will be required following the exit of the UK from the EU cannot reasonably be expected to be significantly less time consuming and complex.
Report impossible123 September 9, 2019 7:10 PM BST
Angoose, you are correct: we are never going to agree about Brexit. But, do you accept the 'Leavers' won the 2016 referendum though?

I believe Brexit has come along at an opportune time ie when bureaucracy in The EU has grown exponentially (so is headcount) and become unbearable and unnecessary; increasing minnow member states with pariah economies that require massive injection of funds from The UK (using Poland as a guide) for at least another 15 years (average £8bn per year); talk of a possible European Army; etc.

I do not wish to spent my hard-earned cash propping/rejuvenating these pariah economies - I'd rather spend it at home and on my fellow citizens. As I'm not allowed to elect the 5 Presidents of The EU (why 5?) it's undemocratic. For instance Mr Tusk, his country has never paid a net contribution to The EU (receiving loads though) yet he's been dictating to us, and referencing us to "hell" the country who've single-handedly provided the necessary funds to develop his country.

Brexit to me is about sovereignty, and control of our borders - The UK people 1st. And, the world (not The EU) is our oyster.
Report 1st time poster September 9, 2019 7:39 PM BST
the fav throwaway line of the brexiteers especially the likes of Richard tyce,is everytime someone questions the 2016 vote ,they jump in and say are you saying 17 million people are unintelligent, well the argument goes the other way the 17 million are intelligent enough to decide for themnselves if the facts,situation has changed enough since 2016 for them to have changed their mind
Report brigust1 September 10, 2019 9:26 AM BST
Good morning Angoose. There is only one reason this has not reached a conclusion and that is the Speaker. He has been undemocratic on Brexit. He has claimed he is there to make sure the backbencher's have a say but that is not his job. He is supposed to referee and be impartial. Had he been the same across the board then he could make these claims but he hasn't. He has only done his on Brexit. He is a confirmed Bad Loser (Remainer) and has done immense damage to our Parliament. The Government has been voted in by the People. The Brexit vote was done by the People. You/we ignore that at our peril. The votes in the Parliament should be swayed by an un-elected Speaker.
The Bad Losers will be basking in the fact that they have the Labour Party (no-one will vote into power), the Lib Dems who have always fought Democracy, the SNP who wants to leave the UK, MP's who are such bad losers the vote against the Party that has given them a good job and a good living and then start crying because there is a price to pay, and the likes of Dominic Grieve, Philip Hammond and  Anna Soubry. None of whom the would urinate on id they were on fire. That says everything. As they say 'The lunatics have taken over the asylum'.

1st time Poster had Jeremy Corbyn won the last General Election everyone would have accepted it and he would have governed until the next General Election. Had the SNP won the Independence Referendum do you think it would be just ignored. Of course it would not. But then perhaps the winners didn't understand what they were voting for. Please!
Report brigust1 September 10, 2019 9:27 AM BST
* should not be swayed
Report n88uk September 10, 2019 9:57 AM BST
The speakers job is exactly that, to make sure the houses voice is heard, not be a government stooge. The reason this has become very apparent with this government is this government simply doesn't have a majority of the house and hasn't in reality for some time.
Report lfc1971 September 10, 2019 10:05 AM BST
He said he wouldn’t meet president Trump , met the head of China
He’s a hypocrite good riddance
Report InsiderTrader September 10, 2019 10:28 AM BST
Angoose
09 Sep 19 16:29
Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 6,426 | Blogger: Angoose's blog
impossible123, with all due respect to yourself, it is simply not possible to just leave
the act of leaving requires a process to be followed, this process requires attention to the details and conditions by which you leave


^

This is simply not true.

Any country can simply leave the EU at anytime under A50 with or without an agreement with the EU.

Why do remainers make stuff up?
Report brigust1 September 10, 2019 10:34 AM BST
Wrong n88. The Conservative Party did have the majority without and before the no-deal Brexit vote. In fact had the 21 rebels not voted down the Government then it would have gone through irrespective of the Speaker.

This morning on Sky Politics they have had two interviewees Heseltine (Bad Loser) and Ahern (Bad Loser). No they are debating Brexit with 3 Bad losers agsinst one supporting the will of the people. Even worse two of the Bad Losers are form the Greens ( 2 seats) and Plydd (4 seats). Be careful what you wish for.
Report Angoose September 10, 2019 10:36 AM BST
It is often said that time is a great healer.
As such, it is often best to avoid making snap judgments, allowing time to reflect on the merits and demerits of the performance of individuals.

A case in point is the much maligned Theresa May, with much talk in recent days of bringing her previously discredited deal back to the house.

We currently have highly charged emotions on all sides of the political spectrum.
It can be argued that such circumstances are highly unlikely to be conducive to balanced debate and wise decision making.

It is clear that, whatever path we proceed to follow, the country will be bitterly divided for a long,long time.

A quote from Lewis Carroll is very apt as we meander our way through this sad and sorry episode in British society.

"If you do not know where you want to go, it doesn't matter which path you take."

From the very outset, there has not been a clear path to a desired outcome.

David Cameron set a referendum in motion, setting out on a path that he believed would result in a Remain vote.
His judgment was subsequently proven to be incorrect.

It was a long and winding road that the country went down to arrive at David Cameron's pledge to hold a referendum, a path that, somewhat ironically,  included speaker John Bercow controversially allowing an amendment to the 2013 Queens Speech.
Report Angoose September 10, 2019 10:38 AM BST

Sep 10, 2019 -- 4:28AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


Angoose09 Sep 19 16:29Joined: 18 Jul 02| Topic/replies: 6,426 | Blogger: Angoose's blogimpossible123, with all due respect to yourself, it is simply not possible to just leavethe act of leaving requires a process to be followed, this process requires attention to the details and conditions by which you leave^This is simply not true.Any country can simply leave the EU at anytime under A50 with or without an agreement with the EU.Why do remainers make stuff up?


Sounds very like a process to me.

Report brigust1 September 10, 2019 10:42 AM BST
And the third member in the debate is from the SNP. Who doesn't even want to be part of the UK. ffs.

What I cannot understand is the fact that there was a vote and those trying by every means they can, even aligning themselves with groups they would never vote for, to overturn that vote have no consideration for the winners. Shame on them.

Ireland is stopping the process with their determination not to allow the removal of the backstop, even knowing if there is a no-deal then there would not be a backstop, never had a referendum to join the EU.
Report brigust1 September 10, 2019 11:05 AM BST
And above all those who refuse to accept the vote in 2016 and go along with what has happened since have no honour. They, like me, do not know whether we would be better or worse off. No-one knows for sure. I would have voted for the Pound against Euro even if I knew I would be worse off because I am British and proud of it.
And the reason they have no honour is because the so-called Remainers on here are clinging onto wild claims about not voting for no-deal etc and just clinging on to a bunch of cretins and wasters who only want to follow this path for their own ends. They would not give this group the time of day had they not given them some hope that the Leavers could have their win stolen from them and the decision reversed. They are not winning bets or making any money out of it. They, like me have no idea what the outcome of our leaving will be. The are simply very Bad Losers with absolutely no personal honour.
And I mean this sincerely. Had they been coming on here saying I accept the result of the referendum but if the Parliament reverses I won't complain that is an entirely different story. But that is not what they are doing they are trying to say they were cheated etc etc when they know full well that is not true and they were not.
The Labour Party for years have been calling for a General Election because that is what they want.The Lib Dems want to Revoke Article 50. The SNP want Independence and the only, only reason they are fighting is is for their own personal ends. No honour any of them.
Report sofiakenny September 10, 2019 6:42 PM BST
brigust..you regard proven liar bojo and his brain cummings as honourable??..ffs.
Report 1st time poster September 10, 2019 6:50 PM BST
brigust is a loon
once gina miller won the meaningful vote,a vote the ERG should get on their knees and thank her for,there was never a deal in commons without compromise ,with or without speaker the mp,s would always have found a way to express their view,its called parliamentary democracy ,bring back control,remember that one
with gina miller who you were probably screeching at,at the time mrs may would have left with a deal over 200 mp,s voted against,when given the chance
she brokered the deal,the cabinet were behind it, without the meaningful vote the erg would have been slung under a bus
Report n88uk September 10, 2019 10:39 PM BST
Johnson and Cummings are literally the opposite of honourable. They are quite literally actively saying they will break the law, and harvesting data to abuse in an election which is also illegal. To support them you are in effect supporting criminality.
Report brigust1 September 11, 2019 9:39 AM BST
Sofia.. yes I do. They have promised the people that what they vote for will be implemented. You can twist anyone's words to make them out to be a liar but that is just cheap journalism. Tom Watson stood at the last and previous election to support the result of the referendum, his constituents voted massively to leave. Is he a liar? I wouldn't say he was a liar just a dishonourable chancer.
N88 you clearly know very little about being honourable. And there is a huge difference in being legal and being honourable. And the 'law' you are referring to is basically a group of dishonourable MP's grouping together to force their will on the honourable MP's.
1st time.. I wondered how long it would be before insults start being thrown around. It is not becoming.
Report brigust1 September 11, 2019 9:42 AM BST
But I forgive you 1st time..
Report impossible123 October 20, 2019 6:45 PM BST
She's never stops criticising despite her judgement has been proven wrong so many times, and repeatedly eg Mrs May, and now Boris despite saying she'd not share a cab with Bojo yet accepted a post in his Cabinet. I wonder how long she'd last outside Parliament; a nightmare employee for any employer. She's never wrong, it seems.
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