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tony57
31 Jul 18 13:15
Joined:
Date Joined: 13 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 12,539 | Blogger: tony57's blog
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/31/manchester-arena-bomber-was-rescued-from-libya-by-royal-navy
Pause Switch to Standard View open borders..the result
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Report flushgordon1 August 1, 2018 10:28 AM BST
Zimbabwe the bread basket of Africa ,is back to being the dustbowl since whitey was thrown out. Just saying like!
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 10:35 AM BST
I've got a Toto album if that helps at all.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 10:39 AM BST
So you do or you dont think people living in extreme poverty in Africa should be free to move to the UK?
Report edy August 1, 2018 10:44 AM BST
Has he suggested at any point that he does?

What is it with you always throwing up things and asking questions like that regarding things that no-one ever even hinted at? You do that all the time. It's incredibly disingenuous.

What's the underlying tactic? Giving others the impression that the perceived leftists want the darndest things? Tiring the perceived leftists out by having them answer your complete bullshit nonsense over and over and over again?
Report bigpoppapump August 1, 2018 10:49 AM BST
it's a simple shift of that which is being debated (what's real) to more comfortable ground (I'll give you a theoretical position where I'm happier)

he once asked me some totally made up sh1t about Obama because he was getting shellacked on Trump.  Then quite happily admitted he'd made it up.

intellectually dishonest.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 11:00 AM BST
The underlying point edy is there is no plan.

So you get people saying lets take people in. Look at the poor kid on the beach etc. But they do not think through the policy. It is always due to an emotional response with no forward planning.

People are taken into Europe and they are rarely ever sent home. The cost is just too much. Looking at Italy 2 agents have to go back with every deported person. It costs thousands of Euros per person.

The easy thing to do is to say we will help everyone. It makes people feel good about themselves. The reality is there are literally tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) of people that if they lived in the UK everyone would be saying we must give them this benefit and that benefit. But as they are currently in Africa for the do gooders they are out of sight out of mind. The same people who shout for us to take in refugees may not even give any of their own money and time to project in Africa.

So I am trying to drill down into what policy PP is actually promoting. His heart is in the right place but the policy is unclear.
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 11:05 AM BST
I don't have a policy IT. I'm not a politician.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 11:09 AM BST
You can still take a view PP.

I get the impression you just cannot admit that you actually agree there needs to be some kind of limit.
Report edy August 1, 2018 11:14 AM BST
uh...no, just no....

I have experienced your discussion tactics far too many times. That is not the real reason. Good job coming up with something that will sound logical to people that haven't encountered you much though.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 11:18 AM BST
Edy you are trying classic deflection tactics here.

We are on a thread about open borders.

Yet most of those who promote migration and think the likes of Merkel did the right thing in 2015 actually refuse to debate the issue of actual numbers and where this policy made up as we go along is actually taking us.
Report Dr Crippen August 1, 2018 11:22 AM BST
The argument from certain people to allow unhindered immigration across Europe and the UK is quite simple.

If a white English speaking person went to live in Spain, wouldn't they want to mix with as many white English speaking people as they could?

The same thing applies to Africans, Asians, Arabs and all other kinds of people. They're all anxious to seek out their own kind. And of course there's strength in numbers.

That idea probably accounts for most of the pro-immigration views on here.
Report edy August 1, 2018 11:23 AM BST

Aug 1, 2018 -- 5:18AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


Edy you are trying classic deflection tactics here.We are on a thread about open borders.Yet most of those who promote migration and think the likes of Merkel did the right thing in 2015 actually refuse to debate the issue of actual numbers and where this policy made up as we go along is actually taking us.


yes, classic deflection by calling out (sorry, too much leftist US American media) the forum's by far biggest bullshitter that always takes discussions away from what is actually being said by the other people about the topic and always puts crazy hypoethetical shit that no-one ever even hinted at into the mouths of others. Or who keeps asking the same thing over and over even though someone had already clearly stated the opposite.

Report edy August 1, 2018 11:25 AM BST
It wouldn't be worth noting if you didn't do it in the vast majority of prolonged discussions you take part in
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 11:29 AM BST
^ Edy refusing to debate immigration or even state his views on an actual policy. Same with PP. All you guys do is signal against individual policies but offer zero in the way of solutions. You prefer to shut down any debate.
Report edy August 1, 2018 11:30 AM BST
We can go back to the topic by you answering my question from earlier

edy • August 1, 2018 9:11 AM BST
Is anyone of note proposing free movement of people throughout the world similar to the EU but worldwide?


or was that simply random BS you came up with and then promptly ignored?
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 11:32 AM BST
Yes on the link I provided earlier in the thread from Question Time this is what Yanis Varoufakis was promoting.
Report Dr Crippen August 1, 2018 11:45 AM BST
The left have been shutting down debate on immigration since the floodgates were opened under New Labour.
They never answer a question with an honest answer or lay their cards on the table.
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 11:45 AM BST
It's a thread started by someone posting an article about a British citizen being rescued from a warzone going on to commit an unspeakable attrocity. Hilariously, the second post was to somehow blame the EU. Seems to have been forgotten in all this.

I mean, I wonder if I've been duped here. Is this just some Baron Cohen style joke to make brexiteers look stupid and I've just jumped in with both feet? Chapeau to Tony if so.


To be fair, I've tried to limit my contribution to asking him how we would achieve what he wants - would he leave UK citizens to die in said warzones, would he happily let innocent people drown at sea if there's a microscopic chance that one of them goes on to do something in later life.

I've had to fend off a stalker and the usual attempts to move any and every subject on to immigration so I haven't always been successful sadly. Now it's just repeated stupid questions. Open borders - yes or no? What's next? Do you support war? Do you support politics? Who's better - men or women? Just utterly vapid. Pathetic attempts just to try and move on to a pet subject rather than simply say "yeah, thread's a bit daft really, I'll bid you good day."
Report Dr Crippen August 1, 2018 11:49 AM BST
They never answer a question with an honest answer or lay their cards on the table.

And usually end up going off in a huff.
Report edy August 1, 2018 11:55 AM BST

Aug 1, 2018 -- 5:32AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


Yes on the link I provided earlier in the thread from Question Time this is what Yanis Varoufakis was promoting.


Oh, so a former Greek Finance Minister of half a year with a knack for self-promotion says that borders are an absurdity (they are) and that's you understanding that he proposes completely free movement of people across the entire planet to be established right now without certain conditions to be met (like there are across the EU)

Okay, mate....

Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 11:55 AM BST
To be fair, I've tried to limit my contribution to asking him how we would achieve what he wants - would he leave UK citizens to die in said warzones, would he happily let innocent people drown at sea if there's a microscopic chance that one of them goes on to do something in later life.

1. would he leave UK citizens to die in said warzones

Do you mean jihad fighters? Yes. I have also suggested children of refugees should not automatically become British citizens.

2. would he happily let innocent people drown at sea

Deaths are down SINCE Italy stopped taking in the 'rescue' boats. The pull factor of picking people up off the coast of Libya encourages people to do the 'crossing' to the NCO taxi. Remove the pull factor and less people actually drown.

You have to look at the big picture. You will never find a solution looking emotionally at the situation and making Merkel type knee-jerk reactions.
Report edy August 1, 2018 12:12 PM BST
Deaths are down SINCE Italy stopped taking in the 'rescue' boats. The pull factor of picking people up off the coast of Libya encourages people to do the 'crossing' to the NCO taxi. Remove the pull factor and less people actually drown.

according to https://missingmigrants.iom.int/region/mediterranean , it was 90 more deaths than July 2017, comparable to both July 2016 and 2015, and the second highest number of deaths in the first seven months of the year.
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 12:14 PM BST
Well I was asking Tony, not you but thanks...
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 12:14 PM BST
edy
01 Aug 18 11:55
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 188,642 | Blogger: edy's blog

    Aug 1, 2018 -- 11:32AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


    Yes on the link I provided earlier in the thread from Question Time this is what Yanis Varoufakis was promoting.


Oh, so a former Greek Finance Minister of half a year with a knack for self-promotion says that borders are an absurdity (they are)

^

You think borders are an absurdity?
Report edy August 1, 2018 12:19 PM BST
Oh yes certainly I do think thatborders are an absurdity that keeps humans from ejoying our beautiful planet to the fullest. The EU establishing a Schengen area of free travel, a gift to all Europeans after the nation states and their longing for more territory within their borders have made our continent's people go through so much suffering, is a wonderful thing.

The goal for the coming five hundred to a thousand years or so should be to raise the standards across the planet to a level that enables us to do away with the current necessity for many of the borders.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 12:29 PM BST
edy
01 Aug 18 12:12
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 188,642 | Blogger: edy's blog
Deaths are down SINCE Italy stopped taking in the 'rescue' boats. The pull factor of picking people up off the coast of Libya encourages people to do the 'crossing' to the NCO taxi. Remove the pull factor and less people actually drown.

according to https://missingmigrants.iom.int/region/mediterranean , it was 90 more deaths than July 2017, comparable to both July 2016 and 2015, and the second highest number of deaths in the first seven months of the year.

^

From your data to end July central Med deaths:

2016 : 2249
2017 : 1113
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 12:31 PM BST
edy
01 Aug 18 12:19
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 188,645 | Blogger: edy's blog
Oh yes certainly I do think thatborders are an absurdity that keeps humans from ejoying our beautiful planet to the fullest. The EU establishing a Schengen area of free travel, a gift to all Europeans after the nation states and their longing for more territory within their borders have made our continent's people go through so much suffering, is a wonderful thing.

The goal for the coming five hundred to a thousand years or so should be to raise the standards across the planet to a level that enables us to do away with the current necessity for many of the borders.

^

At last. Finally you have put your cards on the table.

PP, do you agree with Edy that borders are an absurdity?
Report edy August 1, 2018 12:37 PM BST

Aug 1, 2018 -- 6:29AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


edy01 Aug 18 12:12Joined: 13 Dec 06| Topic/replies: 188,642 | Blogger: edy's blogDeaths are down SINCE Italy stopped taking in the 'rescue' boats. The pull factor of picking people up off the coast of Libya encourages people to do the 'crossing' to the NCO taxi. Remove the pull factor and less people actually drown.according to https://missingmigrants.iom.int/region/mediterranean , it was 90 more deaths than July 2017, comparable to both July 2016 and 2015, and the second highest number of deaths in the first seven months of the year.^From your data to end July central Med deaths:2016 : 22492017 : 1113


Oh, at last I have put my cards on the table. What a relief.

From your data to end July central Med deaths:

2016 : 2249
2017 : 1113


yes, indeed. Thanks for confirming and acknowledging that the deaths were already way down across the board before July 2018. Of course, what you said could very well turn out to be one of the contributing factors in a continuing decline in numbers , but as of now your suggestion of fewer deaths based on Italy's recent policy is bullsh[b][b]it.

Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 12:39 PM BST
From your data to end July central Med deaths:

2016 : 2249
2017 : 1113

yes, indeed. Thanks for confirming and acknowledging that the deaths were already way down across the board before July 2018


Correction...

From your data to end July central Med deaths:

2017 : 2249
2018 : 1113
Report edy August 1, 2018 12:46 PM BST
Statistics are a wonderful thing, aren't they? You can always find a way to present them in a way that supports your view.


From my data to end of May (so before Salvini did his thing)

2017: 1738
2018: 663

btw., you might want to get yourself a new calculator. Your sums are both wrong.
Report edy August 1, 2018 1:16 PM BST
PP, do you agree with Edy that borders are an absurdity?

Would it be such a shocking revelation to you if I'm not the only person on the planet to think borders are currently a necessity, but at the same time thinks humanity should, over the next thousand years, seek to prosper and advance to the point that renders many of the current borders unnecessary? I.e a development that takes our planet, our land out of the hands of the few powerful and to the many?
Report edy August 1, 2018 1:16 PM BST
*gives it to the many
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 1:17 PM BST
Who could disagree with that?
Report Dr Crippen August 1, 2018 1:24 PM BST
Most of the world last time I looked.
Report edy August 1, 2018 1:29 PM BST
Classic bitter geezer coming in to tell everyone he doesn't wish his grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grand-, grandchildren to live in a prosperous and happy world.
Report moisok August 1, 2018 1:47 PM BST
If you have no borders you do not have a nation
The eu project is to create one nation out of the whole of europe

hope this helps.

Nice comfortable control center in Brussels.

The 1984 nightmare of Ociania - take away the influence of any group of people

except one's like Common Purpose who know what is best for the peasants
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 1:57 PM BST
edy
01 Aug 18 13:16
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 188,651 | Blogger: edy's blog
PP, do you agree with Edy that borders are an absurdity?

Would it be such a shocking revelation to you if I'm not the only person on the planet to think borders are currently a necessity, but at the same time thinks humanity should, over the next thousand years, seek to prosper and advance to the point that renders many of the current borders unnecessary? I.e a development that takes our planet, our land out of the hands of the few powerful and to the many?

^

What a terrifying prospect. Unbeleviable that some people in Europe actually want to give up the nation state and hand over our property and wealth to other nations that have not created much for themselves.
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:04 PM BST
Try reading it again if that's what you got from my post.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 2:07 PM BST
edy
01 Aug 18 13:16
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 188,652 | Blogger: edy's blog
PP, do you agree with Edy that borders are an absurdity?

Would it be such a shocking revelation to you if I'm not the only person on the planet to think borders are currently a necessity, but at the same time thinks humanity should, over the next thousand years, seek to prosper and advance to the point that renders many of the current borders unnecessary? I.e a development that takes our planet, our land out of the hands of the few powerful and to the many?

^

So you are in favour of strong borders right now. Good.

How do u suppose this transformation happens?
Report moisok August 1, 2018 2:07 PM BST
there is a re-education plan in place for Ociania's people.  They are even re-writing history.  Check out the eu's new museum for that.
Report moisok August 1, 2018 2:09 PM BST
it is much easier to control a mass of people by tying them into one organisation

they hate the idea of NATIONS having their own ideas and language, customs, behaviour

hope this helps
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:12 PM BST
How do u suppose this transformation happens?

Slowly but surely, like has been going on during the entire human history. There has been a (mostly steady) move towards humans getting over themselves and their little sensitivities, animosities and getting along better. From time to time you get turd sandwiches that push against it, but overall there is no holding it up (unless we destroy humanity and the planet during one of the pushes)

...And only on here would you find someone who calls a prosperous and advanced human society with free humans a terrifying prospect Plain
Report moisok August 1, 2018 2:16 PM BST
edy your tongue is so far up there.
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:17 PM BST
I can't actually even reach my nose with my tongue, mobo.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 2:20 PM BST
There are currently more nations than ever.

There are currently no big empires like the Third Reich, The British Empire, The Persian Empire the Muslim Empire etc.

We are moving into a more localised system.

The battle at the moment is between people who want their national identity and communities and those that seek to destroy communities and split them into segregated areas.
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:31 PM BST
There are currently more nations than ever.

Which are an intermediate phase in all this and an advancement from smaller kingdoms and principalities, which in themselves were advancements from smaller units, that also were advancements from smaller units.

We are moving into a more localised system.

mobo is saying we're moving steadily towards Oceania and other superstates. I say we are indeed moving to a more localised system, but as part of overall bigger confederations in which large parts of humanity seek to propser together.

and those that seek to destroy communities and split them into segregated areas.

...yeah, that would describe your ambitions I guess.
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:45 PM BST
I always find national identity very vague btw.

People always throw that up, but what is that even supposed to really be? It's something very forced, isn't it? Don't we much rather have local identities? Like, people from West Midlands are Yam Yams first, then Northern English maybe, then English, then UK-ers and if they're cool they also consider themselves EU-ers.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 2:50 PM BST
edy
01 Aug 18 14:45
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 188,656 | Blogger: edy's blog
I always find national identity very vague btw.

^

As Brits are made of stronger stuff than that. The 52% are anyway.
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:50 PM BST
That too is very vague. How about a thorough explanation?
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:51 PM BST
Is it the jellied eel that you feel will be gone?
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 2:57 PM BST
Its the spirit of the nation. We will never be slaves. We have not been invaded since 1066. We are winners. We dont let bullies push us about. We are kind people but not pushovers. We queue up politely for things.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 2:57 PM BST
We play fair and by the rules.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 2:58 PM BST
What is the German spirit?
Report edy August 1, 2018 2:58 PM BST
Bockwurst mit Sauerkraut
Report edy August 1, 2018 3:01 PM BST

Aug 1, 2018 -- 8:57AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


Its the spirit of the nation. We will never be slaves. We have not been invaded since 1066. We are winners. We dont let bullies push us about. We are kind people but not pushovers. We queue up politely for things.


+

InsiderTrader • August 1, 2018 2:57 PM BST
We play fair and by the rules.


and those things are endangered?

Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 3:03 PM BST
Of course.
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 3:03 PM BST
There is no such thing as spirit of the nation.

Simply does not exist.

Happy to help.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 3:05 PM BST
PP. Are you suggestion there is no difference between how behave in a village in Uganda to a village in North Wales?
Report edy August 1, 2018 3:05 PM BST
No way would people barbarise to the point to stop queueing politely even if England were to one day be part of an EU confederation or federation.

If anything, since it's the superior kind of culture, it would spread throughout the continent. As superior culture tends to do.
Report edy August 1, 2018 3:12 PM BST
As an example: In Germany we have a really backwards area, called Saxony. It's full of Saxons, therefore it's a horrible place really. Even there though, we other Germanic people have succeeded in making the locals somewhat civilised. They adopted the worthwhile parts, the good culture. Stuff like queueing and speaking in an audible way (sometimes the Saxons still have trouble with this, but they're getting there). While we others also adopted parts of their culture, like the bra and european porcelain (which had been inspired by far east products).

Exchange of cultures - win-win Love
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 3:20 PM BST
No IT, I'm not. Daftest post of the day by the way, well done.


I'm saying there's no great unifying behaviour of people in Great Yarmouth and in Manchester that can be put at the feet of their Britishness.


There is nothing genetically British. We've discussed this previously. Simply doesn't exist.


As for traits, it's much more dependant on smaller localities. So you'll find closer patterns of behaviour of people living in Manchester, whether they were born there or not, than between a born and bred Manc and a born and bred Devonite for instance.


It's a false romantic idea stirred up by populists to ensure people think acting patriotically is more important than weighing up issues for themselves and acting accordingly.
Report melv August 1, 2018 3:21 PM BST
All this "will of the people" "spirit of the nation" is deeply deeply dubious talk. Thankfully it does not even represent all of the 37% who voted Brexit. It does however represent the mind set of a certain ideology that is growing all over the world. Be warned these are the bad guys. They will reverse the progress of humanity backwards to darker crueller and more evil times.


Edy need I say I am with you 100%.
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 3:22 PM BST
Queueing by the way.

Yes, most people will happily stand in line. But just you wait till the girl on the tannoy in Aldi says they're opening Till 4. It's like Battle Royale.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 3:24 PM BST
PorcupineorPineapple
Date Joined: 03 Dec 15
Add contact | Send message
01 Aug 18 15:20
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 5,666 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
No IT, I'm not. Daftest post of the day by the way, well done.


I'm saying there's no great unifying behaviour of people in Great Yarmouth and in Manchester that can be put at the feet of their Britishness.


There is nothing genetically British. We've discussed this previously. Simply doesn't exist.


As for traits, it's much more dependant on smaller localities. So you'll find closer patterns of behaviour of people living in Manchester, whether they were born there or not, than between a born and bred Manc and a born and bred Devonite for instance.

^

So my an educated British gambler from Manchester has a closer patterns of behaviour with Salman Abedi than he does with me?
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 3:27 PM BST
Second daftest post of the day.



No, you can take two people in isolation, especially when one is a homicidal lunatic and say they're not similar. Probably closer to a few forumites in sharing their desire to force people to act a certain way.


Hang on, this is a betting forum too. Maybe there are some sharp similarities. Any of you swivelled eyed loons from the North West?
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 3:34 PM BST
Resorting to insults now PP.

Your level of debate is falling off a cliff.
Report melv August 1, 2018 3:34 PM BST
Me.
Report PorcupineorPineapple August 1, 2018 3:38 PM BST
Don't make daft posts then.


"If you don't believe in a unifying factor, you must believe a Manc shares more in common with a Ugandan villager or a suicidal terrorist."



Good grief.

You should aim to be better than that if you want to be taken seriously.
Report edy August 1, 2018 3:38 PM BST
IT, honestly now, what else do really expect and wish for if you forever keep grinding away at other people with the most idiotic of questions?
Report edy August 1, 2018 3:42 PM BST
Either way, isn't just saying things as you see them the way to go now? Or is that only the way to go if it affects certain demographics and/or comes from specific politicians?
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 4:02 PM BST
Ultimately you too believe in open borders and cultures all mixing together. You do not see the lack of integration before your eyes.
Report moisok August 1, 2018 4:10 PM BST
yes germans are very obedient

they have a bit of history
Report moisok August 1, 2018 4:11 PM BST
edy porky and one or two others on here are married to the eu

they dare not have any other than a 100 percent positive view of it

they are trapped
Report edy August 1, 2018 4:23 PM BST

Aug 1, 2018 -- 10:02AM, InsiderTrader wrote:


Ultimately you too believe in open borders and cultures all mixing together. You do not see the lack of integration before your eyes.


I do have human history on my side.

The things you love so dear about the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are a product of different cultures mixing together. Just sayin'

Report edy August 1, 2018 4:27 PM BST
How grim a place would earth be if fantastic culture such as Fußball, hadn't taken the world by storm from its homeland, Germany? Only ever playing with yourself gets a bit stale after a while, even if football would keep coming home that way.
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 4:27 PM BST
True. But not on scale that is happening at the moment and not when cultures are so so different.

Do you mix with many of the 2015 influx that came to Germany?
Report edy August 1, 2018 4:38 PM BST
Gosh no, I fucking hate other humans and don't even mix with purebred aryans. Young male arab refugees were actually the first ever people to offer me pastry on the train though. That was very nice. It wasn't even poisoned, which I had absolutely expected it to be if I'm being perfectly frank here. Or at least poisoned in a dose that went on to kill me immediately.

The nicest and most helpful person I know also happens to be an Arab. Born in Germany to parents that had previously immigrated here from Egypt though.

I see the more social folks in my area mixing with the recent arrivals though. Especially the children are like sponges. If you actually allow children to integrate, they will. You see like young girls speaking fluent German already, just chatting away with old folks about their dogs. Much, much better and more audible German than most Saxons would ever be able to produce even if they tried their hardest.

You probably just completely blindsight all the very well integrated folks.
Report edy August 1, 2018 4:39 PM BST
*Or at least it wasn't poisoned in a dose that went on to kill me immediately
Report InsiderTrader August 1, 2018 4:42 PM BST
So the integration is going well in Germany. That sounds promising.
Report edy August 1, 2018 4:55 PM BST
We are the single greatest country on the planet. Did you expect anything less than excellence?
Report edy August 1, 2018 5:00 PM BST
Don't compare Germany with places like the UK that have had decades of domestic mismanagement.
Report moisok August 1, 2018 5:17 PM BST
you have to laugh at this sick propaganda sponsored by the eu and repeatedly spouted by this evangelical europhile
Report scaredmoney August 5, 2018 7:00 AM BST
1.01 edy does not live in downtown Munich....its not the place i remember it as
Report Dr Crippen August 5, 2018 12:15 PM BST
edy is orioles who used to post mostly on Chit Chat.
Report Foinavon August 5, 2018 12:27 PM BST
Edy admitting to mild Saxonophobia while having a liking for Meissen ware. At least it's not a thought crime yet. Is this the legendary German humour? Confused
Report edy August 5, 2018 4:06 PM BST
It's not merely a mild Saxonophobia, not at all.
Report Foinavon August 5, 2018 4:11 PM BST
Laugh I was being polite.
Report tony57 August 13, 2018 8:12 PM BST
https://www.ft.com/content/f7ae5cf8-8f94-11e8-b639-7680cedcc421
Report tony57 August 13, 2018 8:13 PM BST
read the article above...FOM is loved by these people...
Report Foinavon August 13, 2018 10:22 PM BST
I can't read it Tony, it's behind a paywall. Can you summarise it in a few words?
Report tony57 August 14, 2018 2:52 PM BST
it was about people smugglers....and making these poor people work for nothing and making them slaves..FOM has been brought up by interpol as a gateway for the traffickers
Report tony57 August 14, 2018 3:08 PM BST
facts4eu.org/news_aug_b_2018.shtml#fm

more facts to prove the points we make ..
Report Foinavon August 14, 2018 4:45 PM BST
Thanks, Tony. I don't think FoM has made much difference. In 1971 I went to live and work in France. This was before we joined the EEC. I had to find a job, fill in a few forms and queue up at some offices with lots of Algerian immigrants but nothing insurmountable. The only thing which changed when we joined was that instead of renewing my residence permit every year, I was given one for 10 years. I'm sure if anyone is determined, they will still be able to go and work on the continent, jobs aren't handed out on a plate even in this country.
Report tony57 August 14, 2018 8:49 PM BST
very true.....my point would be the numbers, not the jobs..i just belive we have far too many people in this country as it is..FOM has let millions come and go and only aid big business to find a lot of cheap labour...
Report tony57 August 14, 2018 8:51 PM BST
i worked in holland and spain..was paid the going rate for the countrys same as spanish and dutch...now with the former communist countrys thats rare..when i moved into my home it was new..we had to have workers back over snags..but constant ..we found out the comapny had subbed to a company that only hired poles...they had to sack them and hire brits to clean up the mess...
Report tony57 August 15, 2018 11:20 PM BST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0&feature=youtu.be
Report Foinavon August 16, 2018 4:18 PM BST
Agree with what he says in that clip 100%.
Report moisok August 16, 2018 10:49 PM BST
to think this is the bloke who was undermined by clinton's lot
Report tony57 September 13, 2018 8:55 PM BST
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6161247/Lithuanian-criminal-24-conv...
Report sageform September 14, 2018 9:01 AM BST
Open borders might be important to us when Corbyn takes charge. There will be a lot of British economic migrants wishing to leave then.
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