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tony57
31 Jul 18 13:15
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Date Joined: 13 Oct 10
| Topic/replies: 12,539 | Blogger: tony57's blog
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/31/manchester-arena-bomber-was-rescued-from-libya-by-royal-navy

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By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 13:21
although he was british..the way the eu handle these problems show the holes in the system...we dont know whos who? the italians are now saying no more..the poor greeks are left to take the burden...you are not a country if you have no borders....the anger people in this country will feel will be shown at the ballot box and on the streets...
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 13:23
So because one wrong'un gets through do you turn your back on the thousands of innocent women and children trying to flee?
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 13:26
Actually, ignore that one.


So because of one wrong'un do we leave our citizens unprotected if say a civil war or famine erupts or would you want them to be brought back to safety?
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 13:33
Do you believe borders are a bad thing PP.

In this clip about the Greek socialist guy says there should be no borders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh19BPKsekg

It is an interesting idea.
By:
enpassant
When: 31 Jul 18 14:03
Tangent alert
By:
enpassant
When: 31 Jul 18 14:04
They love taking anger 'to the streets'
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 14:12
The thread is about open borders.

The left want us to open our arms up to the world's poor.
By:
jed.davison
When: 31 Jul 18 14:16
I notice silly bollox retracted his ludicrous comment about women and children trying to flee. What a toolbox.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 14:34
Didn't retract, just wanted to re-phrase it to be more relevant to the article. I mistakenly thought he was rescued at sea. He was actually taken from a port.


Great contribution from you though.
By:
jed.davison
When: 31 Jul 18 14:51
So because one wrong'un gets through do you turn your back on the thousands of innocent women and children trying to flee?

'Re-phrased'

so because of one wrong'un do we leave our citizens unprotected if say a civil war or famine erupts or would you want them to be brought back to safety?

You are a funny man.

You posted your usual kneejerk nonsense without even thinking what you were writing. Then you realised that women and children allowed to flee number fifty max, and 're-phrased.'
By:
jed.davison
When: 31 Jul 18 14:52
Keep it coming though, at least you give me a few chuckles between races.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 14:58
my word, I must try to get out from under your skin.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 14:59
He still has not answered whether he believes in open borders or not.

This is the crux of the whole debate.

So on the left are honest and say there should be no borders and no limits to immigration.

Others are less direct while sniping away.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 15:06
But it's not the crux of the debate. The man was a British citizen ffs.


If you want to start a "let's build a wall and protect ourselves from everyone who looks and sounds different" thread, then start one. But read the link in the opening post before understanding what the crux of the debate actually is eh.
By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 15:11
as you well know PP im all for refugees? economic migrants NO NO NO...and my point is we dont know who is coming how many..once they are in the eu..they can come here..may i say ask the familys of the dead if they think we should be tough on immigration? WE HAVE BEEN A DISASTER...but THE EU ARE WORSE..
By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 15:13
stop with the build a wall crap...typical of you...person ally i dont care what you think but saying things like that is just childish ..but hey im not surprised.
By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 15:19
60% of refugees are muslim...yet all the other muslim nations dont lift a finger, not one syrian refugee was non muslim that came here this year? only jordan turkey have taken on the burden of helping there own people...why?
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 15:20
Again Tony, read the link you yourself posted. He was British. He was among a load of other Brits being rescued when bad sh!t was going down.


Are you saying that shouldn't have happened and in future we should leave our citizens to fend for themselves.


This has nothing at all to do with immigration despite how a few of the all too predictables would like it described.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 15:21
PorcupineorPineapple
31 Jul 18 15:06
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 5,629 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
But it's not the crux of the debate. The man was a British citizen ffs.

^

A British citizen who killed 22 people mainly children.

A British citizen who was in this country because we took in his parents from Libya.

A British citizen whos dad went back to Libya.

We need to radically review what we are doing. Surely we should only offer temporary settlement until people are able to move back. Refuguees should never be given citizenship and then be free to travel back and fourth from countries they were meant to be fleeing from. If it is safe for them to go back they should go back.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 15:23
You're gonna injure yourself stretching that far.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 15:30
It worked in WW1.

250,000 Belgium people were hosted by the UK but 90% returned after the war.

In war time take in people that desperately need a safe place to live.

When the conflict is over they should go back and help rebuild their country.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28857769
By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 16:08
IT, great point...you just won the argument hands down.
By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 16:15
PP will have no answer to that ..only if they want to go back fine but if they want to stay they can?

again he refuses to converse about the point i make around the eu, if these people get ashore in malta, greece italy..they CAN come to the uk? PP has no problem with this...ive warned from the start, the anger amonge the britsh people who voted for brexit and to control our borders will show itself once brexit is shown to be a sham...someone ive a lot of respect for says it also..

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/996330/Brexit-news-Lord-Owen-Remainers-gripped-by-religion-Theresa-May-White-Paper
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 16:35
He was British. Ffs. It was your own link.
By:
gutfeeling
When: 31 Jul 18 16:39
Bloody Brits, Coming to Britain, Whats the world coming to eh.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 16:40
Yes UK government policy made him British.

I do not dispute that.

I am suggesting maybe we do not make people that come here as refugees permanent citizens.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 17:32
So a 10 year old Syrian refugee arrives. Goes through school, goes to uni, falls in love, gets married to a scouser and starts a family and has a good job.

Then one day, a knock on the door and he's  told to go back because Syria's safe again.

Because he's not a proper person like you or me.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 17:39
If someone marries a local and fully integrates then obviously they could apply on a spouse application. But remember in your case they are Syrian not British.

Maybe let people apply after 15 years and if they have integrated and caused no trouble let them get citizenship.

But it certainly should not be a right for everyone especially if they are jetting to and from Syria on a regular basis and have attracted attention of the security services.

If you were born when your parents were working in Saudi you would not have the same rights as a Saudi citizen. If you travel to America with your parents when you are ten when one gets a job on a green card you are not an American citizen.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 17:54
What if he's single but is a chief constable?
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 17:58
If he is not born to British parents I would suggest he applies for citizenship in the usual way after 10 or 15 years.

The Swiss have this system and you don't appear to get too much terrorism there.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 18:04
So, if he's married he can stay. But single he has to go.

Righty ho.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 18:11
If he is married to a British person clearly he can apply as a spouse. I would have thought that was obvious.

Do you support open borders?
By:
flushgordon1
When: 31 Jul 18 18:23
He wasn't British.
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 18:29
What if he had been injured, couldn't work, was on benefits and couldn't afford to pay for citizenship?
By:
gutfeeling
When: 31 Jul 18 19:29
Abedi – a British national who was born in Manchester – is understood to have been visiting the Libyan capital Tripoli with his younger brother when violence worsened in 2014, prompting the UK government to advise its citizens to leave the country.

HMS Enterprise was dispatched to evacuate Abedi and more than 200 other British citizens after fighting between rival militias forced Libya’s main international airport in Tripoli to shut.


As you were Flush.
By:
InsiderTrader
When: 31 Jul 18 19:49
PorcupineorPineapple
31 Jul 18 18:29
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 5,639 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
What if he had been injured, couldn't work, was on benefits and couldn't afford to pay for citizenship?

^

In most countries if you are not a citizen you do not have the same rights.

Why would you expect to?

People should be grateful we offer a safe place to live until their own country is safe.

I ask again..

Do you support open borders?
By:
PorcupineorPineapple
When: 31 Jul 18 20:34
So you get the poster boy of the refugee crisis, maybe a poor lad blinded in a bomb attack which kills most of his family. We offer him a safe haven but as soon as we can we turn up with a card machine and say pay for citizenship or on your bike.

I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure about the perception there.
By:
TheGoldenVision
When: 31 Jul 18 23:04
Surely you offer someone safe refuge when their country is in turmoil but when the situation becomes safer you facillitate their return.

What is so difficult to comprehend about that attitude??
By:
tony57
When: 31 Jul 18 23:29
correct ..golden vision...

but PP and others want our country to let everyone in...let them live 10 to a house, pressure the schools ..hospitals, ...never mind we open our arms to those in need....once they are here..how dare we send them back whatever the circumstance..

i,ll answer you PP, if he gets married and has children gets a job etc..he should be put in a tribunal,if they say ok he may apply for a passport as he is the father of british children...but what stops people having children knowing they will never be asked to leave? this is what happens? i dont doubt there are many genuine cases..but why would you not want to return to your home ? you should be forced home once its deemed safe....but what about couples who come here and have children? should we not say just cos you have a child here while you are a refugee , it does not mean you will have a right to stay?

but if we lose on refugees?
what about MIGRANTS that have children while they are here? they can stay also?so whats stopping them having a child and living off the state cos there own country say..albania ..who average wage is 200e a month..they get that in tax credits..why will they ever leave PP? but your not worried? i am cos i care about the WC people who carnt get jobs or houses or schools ..cos of austerity and mass migration into my country...MARK MY WORDS

BREXIT stopped populism in this country, already ukip are up in the polls, we may see the return of the far right..italy has a right wing goverment who have blocked all MIGRATION  cos the people want it, what will 5m labour voters and say 3-4 million tory ukip voters do if a new party turns up and runs on a pop ticket??? in 10 years we may have a coalition of far right and pop goverment who are our worst nightmare cos of people like you PP who refuse to see were the danger is....but never mind you,ll let them have your spare room eh PP?
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