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unitedbiscuits
02 May 16 19:30
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Date Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 15,773 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568601/Farage-s-15-000-day-bodyguards-taxpayer-Ukip-leader-branded-hypocrite-using-EU-money-fund-team-ex-military-personnel-attacking-wasteful-spending-Brussels.html
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Report unitedbiscuits May 2, 2016 11:14 PM BST
We were becoming inexorably poorer compared to France and germany because we were outside the single market - we weren't begging to join for twelve years because we loved each other. Exclusion would have further damaged us. To have missed the break was bad enough, to run out a furlong before the finish is less excusable. History won't forgive us for voting Leave.
Report InsiderTrader May 2, 2016 11:19 PM BST
We were becoming inexorably poorer compared to France and germany because we were outside the single market

Is this back in the 1970s when Ted Heath lied to us that it was just a trade agreement?

The only people who know life before this event (the older generation) are polling to be over 60% in favour of Brexit. They know we were lied to and they did not sign up for this corporate controlled EU supranational organisation.

You are talking about a world from decades ago pre-internet, pre-cheap shipping and pre-cheap freezing. We can trade outside the EU now as well. This countries are growing and we must trade will them.
Report unitedbiscuits May 2, 2016 11:21 PM BST
I cannot understand why you support this corporate controlled organisation that is unaccountable.
You need to understand the reality, which is that companies like Facebook and Google are watchmen for the United States. The scandal of their tax-avoidance can only be tackled by a united EU. That means the UK too. Stop stopping the EU  from taking on the shysters.
Report Eeternaloptimist May 2, 2016 11:30 PM BST
No Broken. We were becoming inexorably poorer because we were operating a political policy called managed decline. We had an awful record in terms of trade relations with strike obsessed unions and poor management. We didn't renew our plant and machinery after the war and allowed Germany to steal a march on us. We also turned away from billions of our natural allies and trading partners in countries which grew far more rapidly than the few hundred million of the EU we shackled ourselves to. And Heath was so obsessed with getting us in that he was prepared to do so on any terms.

You've misdiagnosed the disease. You haven't a hope in hell of finding the cure.
Report InsiderTrader May 2, 2016 11:40 PM BST
Facebook and Google!!!

Are you serious? Surely you are joking this time biscuits. Last time I checked they used different EU countries to mix and match their tax payments.

What do you suggest? The same rate of corporation tax throughout Europe. The same rate of income tax. Shall we follow the min 15% regressive VAT tax that hits the poor most of all that our corporate masters have imposed on every EU country?

The EU will do nothing about tax arrangements unless they uniform tax levels centrally. Is that what you want? To take away country's ability to tax how they wish and leave the corporates who run the EU to decide everyones tax levels?

There is a simple solution to Facebook and Google. It is a point of consumption tax at country level. When it became clear that the EU was not going to enforce free trade for betting companies this is what the UK government imposed on betting companies. It works. It is the future and it is the answer. Not the EU. It could just as easily be applied to Google adwords as it is to betting. Charge a gross profit tax on consumption of a good or service if you want access to UK consumers.
Report Burt06 May 2, 2016 11:43 PM BST
The scandal of their tax-avoidance can only be tackled by a united EU

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

wat a plonkerGrin

15000 lobbyists work around the eussr parliament - wtf do u think they are all up toPlain
Report unitedbiscuits May 2, 2016 11:49 PM BST
Interesting points, flawed, but forgivable in light of posters likely been exposed to years of Right-wing press indoctrination. I have to retire but would encourage you to think how that £10,000 daily figure breaks down. I hope Farage is going to explain it to me but won't hold my breath.
Report InsiderTrader May 2, 2016 11:52 PM BST
Biscuits,
As usual you dodge the real debate and go back to a single issue. An issue that amazingly the EU has supported.
Report Eeternaloptimist May 2, 2016 11:53 PM BST
You still haven't explained your cheat jibe and now you are retiring?

Some things never change.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 9:27 AM BST
Good morning. I have been quite happy to discuss whether the EU or individual sovereign countries are best positioned to fight tax-avoidance by global companies. A child's intuition would favour a co-ordinated response. There is an important initiative:    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/23/tax-avoidance-eu-finance-ministers-approve-measures-netherlands
No prizes for guessing which countries are holding it up.

But I put up this thread out of curiosity: How does Farage justify such huge expense for his security?

‘Once again Ukip have been found taking the British taxpayer for a ride. Nigel Farage complains about EU funding but he’s got no qualms about using it for his own ends.’

‘For Nigel Farage to complain about EU waste while billing European taxpayers for the costs of his tour is the height of hypocrisy. It is very clear that the people of Britain cannot trust Farage and his crew with what is best for our country.

Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 9:28 AM BST
At this point I'll just remind the anti-Semites of the kind of person they've been supporting before they keep finding fault with politicians of other parties.

An MEP who dishonestly claimed about £100,000 in expenses with a "sustained pattern of stealing" has been jailed for four years.

Peter Skinner, 56, who was Labour MEP for the South East from 1999 to 2014, was found guilty of three charges after a trial at Southwark Crown Court.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 9:33 AM BST
/\ This guy is in jail, Dr Crippen. The case is literally closed. /\
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 9:40 AM BST
UB, If you are so outraged at the expenses that these MEPs routinely claim, then I take it that you intend to vote to leave the EU?

I heard that they all make a million in their first year.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 9:50 AM BST
There's always room for improvement, Dr Crippen. You don't always get your way by throwing a tantrum and walking off.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 10:00 AM BST
UB,
So you're really a hypocrite over MEPs expenses?

You blow a gasket when you read about them.
Then you can't wait to trot off to the polling booth to vote for more of the same?
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 10:11 AM BST
You need to put the hypocrisy question to Nigel. He's the one campaigning against his own example.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 10:16 AM BST
Nigel wants to put an end to it.

I'm quite happy for Farage to spend any amounts of his expenses allowance on security.

God forbid he should be attacked by rabid anti-Semite lefties and suffer an injury in service of his country.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 10:24 AM BST
Three days later he spoke at a darts arena in Purfleet, Essex, and again paid £10,000 on security despite there being no demonstrators.
The only danger was Farage would throw a dart into his foot.
Report InsiderTrader May 3, 2016 10:59 AM BST
Tony Blair security is £6m a year by the tax payer. We are talking about £58k here that your beloved EU has endorsed.

As for your idea that EU is best placed to tax Google you have to be on a wind up. They could not give getting betting tax sorted out in EU.
Report errytay May 3, 2016 11:10 AM BST
This organisation has not had its accounts audited for decades.

Myth: Auditors have refused to sign off EU accounts

InFact: EU budget has been signed off every year since 2007. Auditors says there are errors, but these aren’t a measure of fraud or waste.


Surprising what you can find out if you look.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 11:46 AM BST
InsiderTrader - Absolutely agree with you that point of consumption tax is the way forward. Try doing business with Google on the basis of "you get paid after I have finessed my profits away at the end of the year." Happily the EU trade commissioner is working towards a digital tax. Chief opposition? UK and Ireland. This subject, and the attendant issue of sovereignty, is probably better discussed on a thread like "Zuckerberg $44 billion/UK £4,237" or "Google tax in perspective" or your own fresh thread if you wish, while Farage defenders wrestle with the reality of him preaching one thing while doing the opposite.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 1:08 PM BST
Ub
You're the hypocrite here.

Bellyaching about the expenses that MEPs claim, then about to vote for them to keep them.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 1:13 PM BST
By the way.
If we stay in the EU and the immigrants continue to arrive, that will put upwards pressure on rents and house prices.

You've conducted a one man crusade on here against rising rents. Yet you're about to vote with the landlords who want to stay in the EU for that very reason.

That makes you a double hypocrite.
Report InsiderTrader May 3, 2016 3:05 PM BST
If the UK and Ireland are against a point of consumption tax then as nation states that should be up to them.

The problem is with the EU people can set up in Ireland and undercut UK companies due to low corp taxes. It is the EU that is to blame. It is the problem not the solution.

Its quite simple you charge a tax when a UK company/individual buys advertsing on Facebook or Google. Issue them with an advertising licence so they must have a base in the UK to operate here. As an free country we could block them from the UK, stop banking to them etc if they refuse.

Of course if we stay in the EU we cannot do this.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 4:28 PM BST
InsideTrader - Outside the EU we could isolate ourselves back to the stone-age but most Outers are for a "race to the bottom" combination of light-regulation and business incentives, an ideal offshore base for multinationals. The trouble with undercutting the competition is that another offshore island, Ireland, Iceland, Isle Of Man or Virgin Islands, can always go that bit lower.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 5:16 PM BST
Outside the EU we could isolate ourselves back to the stone-age

What a load of tripe.

By the way UB.

You're about to vote to keep paying for MEP's expenses
You're about to vote for higher rents through continued immigration.
And you're about to vote to keep Cameron in office because he's toast if we vote to come out.
And you're about to vote to keep the lid on wage increases.

Yet you oppose all four.
That makes you a four times hypocrite.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 5:17 PM BST
tony - If England alone left the EU, there would likely be a permanent Right-wing mandate; and I believe it would be used to roll back regulation, freedoms, standards. When Rupert Murdoch and the far right bang the Brexit drum, take caution, they have a few surprises in store for ordinary folk like us and they are not pleasant.
I hope Turkey are not admitted to the EU and I don't think they will be. Germany are opposed. Don't swallow everything the right wing scaremongers tell you.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 5:21 PM BST
the british worker is facing lower living standards because of too many low skilled migrants in our country,and think on this, if we stay in, albania, and turkey are next..650m people can come and live in this country?,

UB couldn't care less about living standards.

He wants us to stay in the EU and go down with them.
Then the kneejerk reaction might be a swing to the left and allow the communists in.
That's the way his lot think.
Take over the lot in one fell swoop in times of hardship.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 5:22 PM BST
The last thing the hard-left wants to see is the UK doing well.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 5:28 PM BST
Dr Crippen, Cameron is a far more capable and credible figure than any Brexitside leader. I'm not against MEPs expenses in principle, only when used to hire goons in a darts-hall. There are a number of measures to rebalance the housing market, not least taxing landlords at source, historically the country has dealt with far steeper population increases. And I don't accept that low-wage jobs would rise outside the EU, quite the reverse, once the protections and regulations are stripped out. So, four times rebutted, Dr Crippen.
Report lfc1971 May 3, 2016 5:46 PM BST
I must say i admire Farage. It takes a very brave person to challenge the leftists, especially in Britain were a very high percentage may be violent and certainly without manners.
If you walked into a room you would not want to turn your back on them.
Of course Nigel likes to be a person among other people, I saw him once standing outside a pub in Eastbourne at lunchtime having a quiet cigarette.
To be greeted in a friendly fashion by a great and influential person is a true pleasure.
Protection from troublemakers would not be necessary in Eastbourne, but a lot of Britain is not civilised, no doubt about it.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 5:48 PM BST
UB
So now you're a supporter of Cameron.

You're not against MEPs getting expenses, only the MEPs who you don't like.

Please don't comment on the housing market because you don't understand it.

You're still in favour of unlimited immigration despite the monumental problems it's causing.

The low wage economy is staring you in the face and you can't even see it.

There's no hope for you.
Report Burton-Brewers May 3, 2016 5:54 PM BST
Cameron is a far more capable and credible figure than any Brexitside leader.

he's that capable he has refused to debate against Nigel

I'm not against MEPs expenses in principle, only when used to hire goons in a darts-hall

MEP's expenses weren't used
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 5:54 PM BST
tony I was on about the hard-left.

Not the daft-left who think that money grows on trees.

Of course the left want the UK to be a Low wage economy.

Where do you think their voters come from?
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 5:58 PM BST
It's quite amusing to see a leftie talking about party leaders after the clown they've elected as theirs.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 6:11 PM BST
Yes tony, business did do okay but a brake was put on wages.

That's why the working classes can't afford to buy their own houses any more.

There are plenty of cheap houses around outside of London.

You can't see the nose on your own face if you can't see the real reason why working people have to rent.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 6:13 PM BST
Being in the EU guarantees oversupply of labour.

Oversupply of labour guarantees downwards pressure on wages.

It's as simple as that.
Report InsiderTrader May 3, 2016 6:44 PM BST
Biscuits,

Are you happy with a 75 million population by 2022 for the UK and to let it keep growing and growing?

The so called race to the bottom will occur if we stay in the EU. TTIP and then a trade deal with the Asian bloc? Is that what you want? Unaccountable trading blocs controlled by corporations. Everyone a wage slave for their whole life with no chance of ever owning their own home?
Report Captain Wurzel May 3, 2016 6:48 PM BST
Yeah it will be a land of milk and honey if we can escape the EU. I cant wait, IDS will be in a position to look

after the disabled properly, Boris and Liam Fox will be overseeing massive wage increases for the British working

man, we will become a world trading powerhouse if we can slip these shackles.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 6:57 PM BST
Insider trader - Certainly happy with 75 million population. Your (and Crippen's) economic argument is logically incoherent: Farage/Murdoch/ Redwood et al want us out of Europe so that they can strip away regulations, minimum standards and protection from the workforce.

If you are concerned about labour, housing, big corporation impunity and inequality, don't vote for Farage. But if your philosophy is "Other people are different to me and I don't like them," by all means, Farage is your man.
Report lfc1971 May 3, 2016 7:18 PM BST
^ very simplistic.
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 7:21 PM BST
If like UB, you are happy to see downwards pressure on wages.
To see acute shortage of housing becoming more acute.
Even more clogging on the road network.
Lack of places for your children at schools with falling standards the norm because of the diversity.
Hospitals overwhelmed with far too many patients. That's while we still have an NHS.

To be locked into an indebted failing trading market with no exit where we all go down together.

Then vote to remain in the EU.
Report lfc1971 May 3, 2016 7:26 PM BST
After all most countries are unable to govern themselves, they look at England and are amazed.
Farage is not the sort to dislike any nationality, but he is wise to have a special feeling for England. Not all nations are alike after all.
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 7:26 PM BST
Holding a pint doesn't make Farage the friend of the working-man; he never was and never will be. Still, he's an overall liability to the cause, so let him have the floor.

And what's happened to the invitation to Le Pen?
Report Dr Crippen May 3, 2016 7:32 PM BST
Standing up against immigration certainly makes Farage a friend of the working man.

That's the way they see him, and why Labour lost so many votes to UKIP at the last election.
Report lfc1971 May 3, 2016 7:34 PM BST
A teenage boy has been stabbed on a south london bus packed with schoolchildren.
Report Eeternaloptimist May 3, 2016 8:28 PM BST
Wurzel

I don't understand that argument at all. It's so defeatist. People who you think want to hurt the poor would only be able to do so if we elected them. We are now in the position where the EU is crushing people far poorer than our poor. Just look at the poor in Greece. Outside the EU look at the trade barriers which help keep the poor downtrodden in their place in Africa.

If we take back control we get to decide and we stand or fall by our own ingenuity and innovation. There really is nothing to be scared of. We will be what we choose to make of ourselves.

How liberating and exciting is that?
Report unitedbiscuits May 3, 2016 10:37 PM BST
When is your friend Marine Le Pen coming over to help with your campaign?
Any idea Burton brewers or fellow travellers?
Report Eeternaloptimist May 3, 2016 10:43 PM BST
I thought you were desperate to talk about Farage?

So talk.

How is he a cheat?
Report unitedbiscuits May 4, 2016 9:19 AM BST
How is he a cheat?

Where did I say he was cheating, I said the public are entitled to feel cheated by his actions and you're laughing.

And when is Marine Le Pen coming over to support UKIP on Brexit? Reports say her visit is close.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 9:47 AM BST
there are no plans for her to visit and there never was, it was just a possibility. Would you care to explain "Any idea Burton brewers or fellow travellers?"
Report Dr Crippen May 4, 2016 9:56 AM BST
While 80 million Turks are getting their travel documents ready to come here, UB only wants to talk about MEP's legitimate expenses. And he supports staying in the EU for God's sake!

It's easy to see why most socialists are poor.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 10:06 AM BST
While 80 million Turks are getting their travel documents ready to come here

Have Turkey joined the EU? Or have you made that up to scare people? After all, Turkeys integration started in 1959 and is still ongoing. It is more than likely Turkey will never allowed to join the EU.

To join the union, candidate countries must satisfy the Commission that they have adopted European policies in 35 “chapters”. Since applying for full membership to the then European Economic Community in 1987, Turkey has managed to close only one chapter – science and research. Talks haven’t even opened on 20 chapters.

Do you expect every resident of every new EU member to up sticks and move here?
Report errytay May 4, 2016 10:10 AM BST
UKIP and Farage are already making plans to continue after 23rd June even in the likely event Remain is the vote. This despite UKIPs sole purpose was to see GB leave the EU.

Now, having created their own gravy train, it seems as they have no desire to get off.
Report unitedbiscuits May 4, 2016 10:21 AM BST
Burton Brewers, it was just something reported in the media,

The French far right leader Marine Le Pen is to come to Britain in the next couple of weeks to campaign for Brexit.

Ms Le Pen, whose arrival is unlikely to delight mainstream Brexiteers, will appear alongside the former UKIP Euro MP, Janice Atkinson, who belongs to the same group as the French Front National in Strasbourg.


As you work for Brexit, you seemed an appropriate person to ask.
Report unitedbiscuits May 4, 2016 10:23 AM BST
I line up the Brexit ducks in a row and errytay comes along now and againt to fill their backsides full of buckshot.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 10:28 AM BST
ET Croatia, Poland and Hungary didn't meet all the requirements to join but they were still admitted.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 10:39 AM BST
ET this site contradicts the information stated on your pro-remain site

It will also recommend visa-free travel for Turkish citizens in the EU, part of its deal with Ankara on stopping the flow of migrants into Europe. The Commission will make a “qualified” recommendation for visa liberalization, officials said.

That means the Commission’s endorsement is contingent on Ankara’s fulfillment of the entire catalog of 72 “benchmarks” required of applicant countries. Turkey has met most, though not all, of the criteria, a list that includes everything from introducing biometric passports to ensuring rights of minorities.

The final decision on whether to grant Turks visa-free travel, expected at the end of June, rests with member-country leaders.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 4, 2016 10:42 AM BST
I think Anxious,Captain Wurzel and United Biscuits are genuine left wingers with legitimate concerns about workers rights.

I think their distrust of the Conservatives is well founded.
I share their disgust at the way the banks have behaved.

I don't understand how they can back the ultimate rich mans club,the EU.
Neither do I understand how they can stomach the patently dishonest David Cameron and his equally dishonest posh sidekick.

Why can't they trust great Labour figures of the past
Hugh Gaitskill
Peter Shore
Tony Benn
Bob Crow.
Report unitedbiscuits May 4, 2016 10:46 AM BST
I wouldn't say I am Left-wing, wildman, rather of the centre. Certainly too moderate to countenance a programme of building gunships to patrol waters we grab unilaterally.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 4, 2016 10:57 AM BST
They are your waters.
They were your fish until the EU nicked them.

Would you not like to see your fishing ports thriving again
Would you not like to see your ship building industry busy again.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:00 AM BST
The final decision on whether to grant Turks visa-free travel, expected at the end of June, rests with member-country leaders.

That is not true. Turkey cannot be granted full membership in June. The EU s own rules say no new memberships can be ratified for 5 years from 2014. So there is no vote in June.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:03 AM BST
visa free travel is not the same as full membership.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:05 AM BST
Other countries such as Russia and China are in negotiations over visa free travel.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:08 AM BST
Europe should consider would it be more safe to allow the Chinese and Russians visa free travel rather than Turkey.
Report InsiderTrader May 4, 2016 11:08 AM BST
errtay,

If you sign up to stay in the EU we will get no vote again when Turkey joins. It is therefore right people take this into consideration.

We have not had a vote for 40 years. 40 years ago people signed up for a common market between 9 rich conutries. We have never had the vote on new poor countries joining and reducing our living standards here.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:13 AM BST
Turkey should it join would have the greatest representation of mps in the European parliament. (Just less than Germany at the moment)
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:13 AM BST
when Turkey joins.

And what is the date for this?
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:15 AM BST
If it is a possibility then this should be taken into consideration when you vote.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:18 AM BST
Turkey should it join would have the greatest representation of mps in the European parliament. (Just less than Germany at the moment)


But it is unlikely to be allowed to join. Turkey is a very different country today from the one that wanted to join in the 1980s.
Report unitedbiscuits May 4, 2016 11:19 AM BST
As a member of NATO, you all have committed your children to fight for Turkey if the time comes. Are you not aware of this?
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:20 AM BST
Inside


If GB doesn't want a nation to become a member of the EU, it has a VETO. You should take that into consideration when you vote.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:21 AM BST
Don`t be silly, a very large percentage of people living in Britain will not even be prepared to fight for Britain never mind Turkey
And who could blame them.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:24 AM BST
Would you not like to see your fishing ports thriving again
Would you not like to see your ship building industry busy again.


They can't sell the fish that is caught now, and build ships? Who for? The Japanese build can build ten ships while we build one and cheaper. It's 2016, not 1966.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:24 AM BST
Britain is one of the countries most in favor of allowing Turkey in.
Consider that when you vote in the referendum.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:27 AM BST
Because when errytay says Britain has a veto, that does not mean that you or i have a veto, no it means, in theory the politicians have a veto
That means they can do what they want if and when we stay in the EU.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:27 AM BST
And why do you think that is? Just to get up the nose of Nigel Farage.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:29 AM BST
You do have a veto. In this case its called a referendum, takes place on the 23rd June.
Report lfc1971 May 4, 2016 11:30 AM BST
Yes, finally you understand.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 11:33 AM BST
What didn't I understand?

And When the country votes remain, you'll be the first on here condemning your fellow countrymen for doing so. Your belief or no belief I expect and on all subjects. A lot of you Brexiters are 'my way or the highway' type of people, never wrong.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 4, 2016 11:47 AM BST
Errytay,everything shouldn't be based on cost.

Surely it is worthwhile providing employment for your people.

Build your own ships,use your own steel.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 12:04 PM BST
Surely it is worthwhile providing employment for your people.

Colliers etc? we've been there done that. You cannot get all the population to agree on any issue. That's called democracy.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 12:12 PM BST
ET do you not agree that the EU has a history of turning a blind eye shall we say, to rules that THEY MADE, when the rules don't fit in with their agenda?
Report Eeternaloptimist May 4, 2016 12:14 PM BST
And When the country votes remain, you'll be the first on here condemning your fellow countrymen for doing so. Your belief or no belief I expect and on all subjects. A lot of you Brexiters are 'my way or the highway' type of people, never wrong.

I don't see the logic there errytay. If the left loses a general election they don't renounce their view and conclude they were wrong because they couldn't convince the electorate. In fact some would argue that it is worse than that. Socialists voted for Blair despite knowing he was a leader who didn't remotely share their views.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 12:26 PM BST
Politics and Political parties are normally a broad spectrum of ideas. Labour supporters are  not necessarily Communist or Trots, however some are, just as all Conservatives are to right of Gengis Khan, again though some are.

I certainly would not refer to those voting to remain as 'Shameful' as has been done here, a subliminal type of bullying.

I prefer consensus rather than confrontational, that is for yesteryear.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 12:27 PM BST
not all Conservatives
Report errytay May 4, 2016 12:29 PM BST
Expanding John Smith's ideas, Tony Blair did what was necessary to form a government.

Most voters are tribal, left and right, the ten percent who are not are gullible.
Report InsiderTrader May 4, 2016 12:31 PM BST
when Turkey joins.

And what is the date for this?

..........

No. This is the whole point.

In 1975 no one had a date for Romania joining. Only the political elite in this country have had a choice on this. The people were never asked.

If you vote yes to the EU your a signing away for any number of countries joining. 40 years is along time. What is to say at some point the EU expands into Africa or Asia without us getting a say?

When you vote to stay in you MUST consider this possiblity given what has happened in the last 40 years.
Report errytay May 4, 2016 12:57 PM BST
When you vote to stay in you MUST consider this possiblity given what has happened in the last 40 years.

We have an election every 5 years, vote for who you think will do as you will. Of course if the majority vote wishes the status quo to continue then you'll have to suck it up. It's called democracy. Unfortunately, you want only what you want.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 12:57 PM BST
ET do you not agree that the EU has a history of turning a blind eye shall we say, to rules that THEY MADE, when the rules don't fit in with their agenda?

ok ET not sure if you missed this but it is my opinion, based on what I have seen, that they do turn a blind eye to the rules if it doesn't suit them. That is why I am 100% sure of the accession of both Turkey and the Ukraine
Report errytay May 4, 2016 1:01 PM BST
BB

Therein lies the problem, you only believe what you want to believe.

To gain full membership of the EU, countries have to prove they are in the process of complying to the 'chapters', as did Poland when they gained full membership. Turkey are light years from doing this, in fact, negotiations on 20 of those 35 chapters have not even been started yet.
Report InsiderTrader May 4, 2016 1:06 PM BST
We have an election every 5 years, vote for who you think will do as you will. Of course if the majority vote wishes the status quo to continue then you'll have to suck it up. It's called democracy. Unfortunately, you want only what you want.

.............

If there is a consensus by the political elite that we let new countries in but not a consensus by the public what should we do?

It is only the rise of UKIP that has got us this vote at all. The Westminster bumble would never have given us a choice.

Which party opposed the openning up of eastern europe into the EU? They lied about the numbers who would come and now lots of communities have local services stretched to the limit as a result.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 1:10 PM BST
sorry ET but had the Copenhagen agreement on GDP been adhered to Poland, Hungary or Greece would ever have been admitted. You only believe what you get off your pro EU infact site.
Report Dr Crippen May 4, 2016 2:16 PM BST
The Greek crisis hasn't gone away either.
How much will the UK be asked to stump up next time they hold out the begging bowl again?
Report Dr Crippen May 4, 2016 2:22 PM BST
Immigrants, Turkey, sovereignty, payments to the EU, trading restrictions,
legislation that hinders UK businesses.

How many more reasons do the undecided need to convince them to vote to come out?
Report errytay May 4, 2016 2:32 PM BST
Poland were addressing the GDP issues on full membership as were Hungary and Greece, as the terms of the EU, and as long as they were addressing the issues they broke no rules.

Poland now has the 5th biggest GDP in the EU. It doesnt mention that on any site you read though. You only believe what you are fed, a mushroom by any other definition.
Report Burton-Brewers May 4, 2016 2:43 PM BST
"You only believe what you are fed, a mushroom by any other definition."
                                                                                                         
same as you ET but my manure is at least fresh you're quoting old figures they are 8th and their GDP is decreasing because their workers have naffed off. Even Spain and Italy have higher GDP's. Bangladesh currently has a higher GDP Than Hungary and Greece, you keep those blinkers on though.
Report InsiderTrader May 4, 2016 2:55 PM BST
ET,

Do you support TTIP?
Report bongo May 4, 2016 8:03 PM BST
Poland has the joint 8th largest GDP in the EU - non EU SWI is also ahead of them.
The UK likes Poland, a lot, just sayin'
Report treetop May 4, 2016 9:23 PM BST
Poland doesn't offer us any suicide bombers,just tradesmen,people who work hard and the odd crook.
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