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TommyBarnes
22 Jun 15 15:09
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Date Joined: 20 Sep 10
| Topic/replies: 419 | Blogger: TommyBarnes's blog
David Cameron has promised an end to what he called the "ridiculous merry-go-round" of taxing low earners then handing them money back in benefits.

The prime minister said it was wrong to treat "the symptoms of the social and economic problems we face" while "ignoring the causes" of low pay.

He argued the UK should be a "lower tax, lower welfare society".

It comes amid a debate over plans for £12bn in welfare cuts, the details of which have not been revealed.

The government says the welfare bill has to take its fair share of cuts as part of its plan to balance the books and eliminate the £90bn deficit by 2017-8.


With ministers having pledged to protect pensioner benefits and child benefit, BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said Mr Cameron's speech was a "pretty clear steer" that much of the £12bn would come from tax credits and housing benefit

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Replies: 157
By:
tony57
When: 22 Jun 15 15:24
yes and who gets tax credits?? the working poor..not the unemployed, (they are getting shafted enough)the one thing I agree with the tories is THEY HAVE A MANDATE..this is a fact..wether I or others don't..but people knew what was going to happen..and who was going to get screwed.amazing the man born with a silver spoon in his mouth tells the poor they have never had so good...
By:
pawras
When: 22 Jun 15 15:43
tax payers shouldn't be subsidising company wage bills by tax credits, but at the same time the labour market should be largely closed to those not born here so that wages aren't surpressed by over supply in the labour market


child benefit would be ZERO after two if I had my way
By:
tony57
When: 22 Jun 15 15:47
pawras..I agree child benefit should be 2 kids no more..its a life style choice?..but you miss the point..these people are working for low pay, if they stop or its not worth their while they are back on the dole. this crap about making work pay from the tories is just that...crap..your a few pound a month better off and its still costing the tax payer..until a living wage is paid then we,ll have this problem, but again its the poor who get the hit?
By:
pawras
When: 22 Jun 15 15:55
try reading what I said, my sentences don't (often) all run into one like yours (I don't read most of your stuff because of that)

I would greatly restrict the labour market to those not born here

That would stop wages as being suppressed as they have been since tony blair opened the floodgates

As for choosing to go back to the dole, you know my views on having to work for your jsa etc

We've had the discussion before re raising the basic rate or chopping benefits, you know how the public would vote.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 22 Jun 15 16:33
As for choosing to go back to the dole....

Exactly pawras,

Implement enough cuts for the dole as well, and nobody would choose to go back on the dole.
By:
tony57
When: 22 Jun 15 16:39
crippen you really are a sad man..do you have any nice side to you? i must admit you are the nasty..ofcourse let people work for buttons, but its fine you get tax payers money for your houses..?
By:
alleged22
When: 22 Jun 15 16:42
what is the foreign aid budget this year??
By:
1st time poster
When: 22 Jun 15 18:28
thought it was april 1st

who invited all these companies here with sweetners
who promised supermarkets free labour[ never mind low wages ]
who,s stood by whilst the likes of gooogle,starbucks etc have run rings around our tax system
who said we cant chase these firms for tax and sharp practices in  case they upsticks and set up elsewhere,its a global market and were lucky to have,m

now dave , ids and gideon think these firms are going to start handing out living wages,massive pay rises,people are lucky to get 1% rise on the minimum wage but cameron thinks they,ll be giving rises of £2 an hr about 30% on the minimum wage,this from the party that fought the minimum wage with every breath in their body scaremongering with storys of massive job losses and companies upping sticks and leaving
By:
tony57
When: 22 Jun 15 18:37
here here..well said first time poster, they have short memorys
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 22 Jun 15 18:54
I'm sure this won't be popular but tax credits were an indication of a problem, possibly several, rather than a solution.
By:
1st time poster
When: 22 Jun 15 19:17
torys need to work out where they stand on this,theres been plenty of capitalists over the last few years and some on here ,who believe that buisness,s should be allowed to pay less than the minimum wage never mind more,
think ids,gideon cameron and co come under the banner of ,
you reep what you sew
By:
CJ70
When: 22 Jun 15 19:52

Jun 22, 2015 -- 1:17PM, 1st time poster wrote:


torys need to work out where they stand on this,theres been plenty of capitalists over the last few years and some on here ,who believe that buisness,s should be allowed to pay less than the minimum wage never mind more,think ids,gideon cameron and co come under the banner of ,you reep what you sew


If you allow business to pay less than minimum wage you solve a large part of youth unemployment.

The fact is that some people aren't worth £7 an hour to business, with cheap Labour from the EU further problems arise.

How do you square the circle without Gov. funding wages?

By:
TommyBarnes
When: 23 Jun 15 10:57
A very longwinded speech by the PM when he might as well have just said "can't feed em don't breed em" its probably what he would like to have said.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 15 11:13
crippen you really are a sad man..do you have any nice side to you?

tony you're the nasty man.

You want to take money from those who have earned it and give it to those who have not.

That's what I call nasty.
By:
anxious
When: 23 Jun 15 11:15
crippen your such a nasty nasty man
By:
tony57
When: 23 Jun 15 11:16
totally different morals crippen..you are money orientated and are happy to take peoples taxes for your own benefit, but when them said taxes are needed to aid the less well off..you turn against it..shows you for what you are and think?
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 15 11:23
you are money orientated

Tony I'm not the one holding out the begging bowl.

You're the one who wants to take other people's money from them not me.
By:
anxious
When: 23 Jun 15 11:25
crippen has the morals of the gutter
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 15 11:25
A double nasty there from anxious.

He'll be going for the triple nasty to insult me with next.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 15 11:26
anxious that would be better than being in the gutter like you.
By:
TommyBarnes
When: 23 Jun 15 11:27
you are money orientated
Well this is a better site after all, surely none of us would be on here if we weren't?
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 23 Jun 15 11:28
Yu can certainly count me amongst the people who think that a minimum wage is self defeating 1st timer. It's as much a leveller down if not more than a leveller up in my view. If you are a good worker who makes a company money then they will be keen to keep you and thus offer you good terms. The emphasis is on you to make yourself indispensible. Minimum wage is a slackers charter.
By:
tony57
When: 23 Jun 15 11:34
tommy you miss my point, we all want money ofcourse..but some want to keep all they have rather than helping those worse off than themselves, no one is asking people to pay a lot,but if the less well off can take the brunt of cuts, why carnt the better off pay a bit more tax?

crippen , ive not got any begging bowel, funny you never answer my questions..i have you bang to rights..you get HB ..yet don't want others to recive any tax money..typical of the selfish and greed of the right its all about me, screw my fellow country men..CONSERVATIVE...MEANS..TO CONSERVE..EG.. to keep what I have!says it all.
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 23 Jun 15 11:38
tony

Aren't the better off already paying to subsidise the less well off? I'm afraid couching your pleas in terms of fairness is the language of scoundrel politicians. I have no more faith in your ideology about fairness than I do with IDS who says he is going to be kind to the most vulnerable. Actions speak louder than words. Both of you wish to plug the holes in your ideology by torturing the language.
By:
anxious
When: 23 Jun 15 11:40
iain duncan smith = MEIN KAMPF
By:
Eeternaloptimist
When: 23 Jun 15 11:41
Hanks Arse = dribbling idiot.
By:
TommyBarnes
When: 23 Jun 15 11:41
I understand your point EO but back in 1995 I turned down a holiday job in Great Yarmouth which my uncle had arranged for me, 50 hours a week at £1.20 an hour.  I know it was 2 decades ago but we surely don't want to go back to those days?
By:
anxious
When: 23 Jun 15 11:41
ET =CANT SPELL
By:
CJ70
When: 23 Jun 15 11:49

Jun 23, 2015 -- 5:41AM, TommyBarnes wrote:


I understand your point EO but back in 1995 I turned down a holiday job in Great Yarmouth which my uncle had arranged for me, 50 hours a week at £1.20 an hour.

By:
tony57
When: 23 Jun 15 11:49
eo does, as do all of the right, there view is low wages more jobs,and his best one was the min wages only encourages shirkers? 7.50 hour? its always been about making us a low wage economy, and tbf to them they are doing it..it shows you all you need to know were eo politics lie?..and hes not a tory?Laugh
as for more taxes eo..I belive in times of trouble, taxes must be raised in some cases..if I remember, your chancellor said he would not raise vat ..then raised vat with this same excuse? so lets stop with this lefty bull..the tories raise taxes when they want to..
By:
CJ70
When: 23 Jun 15 11:50
How old were you then if you don't mind me asking? As £60 a week for what sounds like a holiday more than a job sounds like good fun and a good experience.
By:
tony57
When: 23 Jun 15 11:52
tommy do your self a favour..ignore this person.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 15 11:59
tony,

Yesterday, I went to the trouble to write you an appraisal of the situation as I saw it, that Labour had left when their term of office ended.

All I got in return for my efforts was a line of zzzzzzzzzzz from you.

Now today you complain that I don't answer your question.

Who do you think you are David Dimbleby on Question Time. And the rest of us are your panel?

That's the trouble with people like you - you can only see one side of an argument and put two fingers up at any other.
By:
tony57
When: 23 Jun 15 12:15
turn that around crippen,i only wrote what is happening, you are a buy to let business man..who receives HB from your tenants?..nothing wrong with that, but you don't want others to receive tax payers help (which you do) and these people are far worse off than yourself?
what have I said that is wrong crippen?
what it is ,you don't like the facts when they are presented to you.it makes you look hypocritical ?but as ive said no one is against you getting  hb?
By:
pawras
When: 23 Jun 15 12:18
As I say every time socialism will always be totally the weaker argument because you seek to take from one group (the 99% of whom will have earned it fair and square) and hand it to another to compensate for their own short comings for your own ideological reasons.
Sorry but no, and I’ll always vote against it.

Also personally I agree with, if you can’t feed’em don’t breed’em. Those who start spawning kids on little to no wages and expecting others to foot the bill can get to fk.

Bottom line is, barring the GENUINELY disabled, beyond a very basic subsistence level so that people aren’t without basic food, shelter or medical care, your life is your problem and it’s not my purpose in life to work to finance other people.

I agree that no one should work for free but the job market will always be fkd and wages suppressed with oversupply of the labour market due to open door immigration, all thanks to LABOUR.
By:
salmon spray
When: 23 Jun 15 12:26
The thread was originally about tax credits. I know little about these tbh but don't they mainly go to relatively low-paid "hard working families" with children so it will actually increase the marginal rate of tax for the less well off to what 99% or 110 % ? Is IDS capable of understanding this ?
By:
TommyBarnes
When: 23 Jun 15 12:27
I was 20, I was told it could be bar work or chalet cleaning depending on what was needed that day. £30 per week would be deducted to share a chalet with 7 other guys during my stay.  The next day I went to the job centre and they put me in touch with a guy who operated a small factory making picture frames. A really nice entrepreneur/Del Boy who paid me £3.80 an hour!.  We had TMS on the radio while we worked and he would pitch in himself.  We all worked as quickly as we could because we felt we were appreciated. A lovely man.
By:
Dr Crippen
When: 23 Jun 15 12:29
Is IDS capable of understanding this ?

I'm sure he is SS.
By:
TommyBarnes
When: 23 Jun 15 12:32
Personally cleaning up sick on a ballroom floor at at 2.00am for £1.20 is not my idea of a holiday but maybe I am just fussy.
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