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melv
11 Feb 15 17:29
Joined:
Date Joined: 19 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 7,212 | Blogger: melv's blog
Did you hear radio 4 just now. Oh I know as a labour politicians this suit her well. But Margaret Hodge has just the proclaimed like a vengeful furie in a major public investigation the irrefutable findings that that the establishments tax inspectors have no interest what so ever of bringing the rich and influential to justice over tax avoidance and evasion.

The truth is the truth. Being election year does not nullify it. Neither does labour hypocrisy.
Pause Switch to Standard View Rich people +tax= The reeking stink...
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Report 1st time poster February 12, 2015 8:04 PM GMT
hmrc told the select commitee that from the list provided by the hsbc whistleblower,they,d recouped 135 mill
Report GAZO February 12, 2015 8:50 PM GMT
poor people only get done for tax evasion,rich people only get done for tax avoidance
Report pawras February 12, 2015 8:55 PM GMT
sometimes it might not be exactly legally clear whether it's avoidance or evasion , if you ask the hmrc their first reaction is always it's evasion giv'us yer money, when in fact that is not always the case, with that lot it's guilty until proven innocent by the last possible court of appeal.

lampus - don't believe me , you're just some jealous broke ar&e nothing socialist so you're not a concern. giving money to help people in real dire straights is one thing but handing money over to fiancé worthless sl&g baby factories or some fk that's just stepped off the boat wanting to suck the welfare teat is another.
Report salmon spray February 12, 2015 9:14 PM GMT
I see Lord Fink having threatened to sue Miliband has now says everybody does tax avoidance.
Wac.
Report pawras February 12, 2015 9:19 PM GMT
avoidance isn't illegal, you socialists might have moralistic views on it, but that counts f all and you'd change your tune if you were the ones paying it.
Report CJ70 February 12, 2015 9:37 PM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 3:14PM, salmon spray wrote:


I see Lord Fink having threatened to sue Miliband has now says everybody does tax avoidance.Wac.


Did you also notice that Miliband has refused to repeat what he has said outside Parly privilege?

Should tell you something.

Report paddletoe February 12, 2015 9:56 PM GMT
There is a big difference between a person on relatively low wages doing whatever they can to reduce the amount of tax they pay and a multi millionaire using the services of experts to pay as little tax as possible.

Its question of obscene greed and it has nothing to do with envy.
Report CJ70 February 12, 2015 10:27 PM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 3:56PM, paddletoe wrote:


There is a big difference between a person on relatively low wages doing whatever they can to reduce the amount of tax they pay and a multi millionaire using the services of experts to pay as little tax as possible.Its question of obscene greed and it has nothing to do with envy.


Agreed

http://gyazo.com/5f71a0f1c504bd7df46daf98cf821d6e

Report salmon spray February 12, 2015 10:45 PM GMT
I think Miliband described him as dodgy. I doubt this moron Fink would go to the courts and say he isn't.
Report CJ70 February 12, 2015 10:49 PM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 4:45PM, salmon spray wrote:


I think Miliband described him as dodgy. I doubt this moron Fink would go to the courts and say he isn't.


Why not? If Miliband is lying then it's actionable.

Of course if Miliband isn't lying he would say out outside of Parly privilege and call his bluff.

Tis the way Politics works.

Report salmon spray February 12, 2015 11:09 PM GMT
I thought he did say it outside Parliament. If he didn't he should because the guy has said he is a tax avoider and that was not what he said originally. He led us to believe that he went to Switzerland to work and simply transferred his innocent little HSBC current account from one country to another. Now he says he was engaged in tax avoidance. I don't think anything Miliband could say within reason could be actionable as it would almost certainly be true.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 12, 2015 11:24 PM GMT
Don't talk shiite salmon. I'm sick of you two bob socialists playing this ten bob banjo like it's a Stradivarius. You got something? Fire up the Quattro sucker and screech it down the street till it's wheels catch fire. If not leave it in the garage, get out the Robin Reliant and shut the fucck up because this avoidance shiit is stale.
Report CJ70 February 12, 2015 11:27 PM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 5:09PM, salmon spray wrote:


I thought he did say it outside Parliament. If he didn't he should because the guy has said he is a tax avoider and that was not what he said originally. He led us to believe that he went to Switzerland to work and simply transferred his innocent little HSBC current account from one country to another. Now he says he was engaged in tax avoidance. I don't think anything Miliband could say within reason could be actionable as it would almost certainly be true.


Nope he wont say it outside because he knows it'll end up with a court case.

You are conflating tax avoidance with evasion here as well aren't you? It's not the same thing, hence the threats of legal action.

I read somewhere that Miliband has tried this line because he thinks the people he is targeting wont be able to tell the difference, it seems like there is a point here.

Of course Miliband and Labour are now struggling because their own tax avoidance has been highlighted. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call Miliband dodgy for his tax avoidance.

Report salmon spray February 12, 2015 11:36 PM GMT
I thought you were normally reasonable Eo.
Obviously I was wrong.
Being polite myself I will say please feck off you ****
Report subversion February 13, 2015 12:08 AM GMT
CJ70
I read somewhere that Miliband has tried this line because he thinks the people he is targeting wont be able to tell the difference

If the lefty tw@ts on here are anything to go be, Miliband is correct Laugh

CJ70
Of course Miliband and Labour are now struggling because their own tax avoidance has been highlighted.


Ain't karma a b!tch Grin
Report Capt__F February 13, 2015 1:19 AM GMT
stick paw on a zero hour paye contract
Report Capt__F February 13, 2015 1:19 AM GMT
stick paw on a zero hour paye contract
Report pawras February 13, 2015 6:59 AM GMT
Once again and say it out loud if necessary , tax avoidance IS legal tax evasion is NOT legal.  If you can’t see that you’re either thick or wrapped up in class war bullsh&t.  Plus those in glass houses (labour) shouldn’t throw stones. E.g. the doyen of the left Tony Benn wasn’t adverse to tax avoidance re his property in London. I don’t remember you lot crying about that, in fact some were defending it when it was pointed out.


Capt_F : lol yeah right fortunately for me and unfortunately for you little trots I knew from the start of secondary school (thanks to my old man) that you get nowhere with jobs and money without worthwhile education and skills, plus you have to be willing to upgrade your education/skills as you go through life.  Do they have internet over in Jaywick??
Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 10:20 AM GMT
I KNOW the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance you smug person. Now could one of you right-wingers please answer my question from many post back. What is " aggressive tax avoidance " ? Not my phrase : it has been used repeatedly by Cameron and Osborne.
Tia.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 10:31 AM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 4:20AM, salmon spray wrote:


I KNOW the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance you smug person. Now could one of you right-wingers please answer my question from many post back. What is " aggressive tax avoidance " ? Not my phrase : it has been used repeatedly by Cameron and Osborne.Tia.


You clearly don't. Otherwise you wouldn't have made the mistakes above.

Report pawras February 13, 2015 10:31 AM GMT
I wasn't necessarily pointing the finger at you, I just get the vibe that some see both as the same thing.

I dunno what Cameron means by it but I would probably define it as using schemes where the law isn’t exactly clear on the legality of them.
Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 10:35 AM GMT
Would you like to quote CJ ?
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 10:36 AM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 3:14PM, salmon spray wrote:


I see Lord Fink having threatened to sue Miliband has now says everybody does tax avoidance.Wac.


Here.

Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 10:36 AM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 4:45PM, salmon spray wrote:


I think Miliband described him as dodgy. I doubt this moron Fink would go to the courts and say he isn't.


Here.

Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 10:36 AM GMT
pawras. Thank you for that. I would say our debate whilst being...er...vigorous has stopped short of being unpleasantly personal.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 10:37 AM GMT

Feb 12, 2015 -- 5:09PM, salmon spray wrote:


I thought he did say it outside Parliament. If he didn't he should because the guy has said he is a tax avoider and that was not what he said originally. He led us to believe that he went to Switzerland to work and simply transferred his innocent little HSBC current account from one country to another. Now he says he was engaged in tax avoidance. I don't think anything Miliband could say within reason could be actionable as it would almost certainly be true.


Here.

Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 10:39 AM GMT
Nonsense CJ. Not EVERYBODY is a tax avoider. Tax avoiders may well be do nothing illegal,though as pawras says there is a grey area,but calling them dodgy is different from calling them criminals
Report Lampus February 13, 2015 10:39 AM GMT
Cameron  called  it  repugnant
wonder  if  that  will  come  back  and  bite him
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 10:45 AM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 4:39AM, salmon spray wrote:


Nonsense CJ. Not EVERYBODY is a tax avoider. Tax avoiders may well be do nothing illegal,though as pawras says there is a grey area,but calling them dodgy is different from calling them criminals


Well true, if you take into account those that don't earn. Hope you haven't got an ISA.

Also I'd be very careful of your statement as a court may well think differently from you *innocent face*

Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 10:54 AM GMT
Yes I have an ISA. That is a wholly transparent arrangement which does not need investigating by HMRC. That is what I would call " vanilla tax avoidance ". I doubt whether in Lord Fink's case we are talking about a few simple ISAs. That's not what Swiss banks are for. I look forward to hearing from your solicitors btw. I don't think you'll find any prepared to take it on a no win no fee basis.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 11:22 AM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 4:54AM, salmon spray wrote:


Yes I have an ISA. That is a wholly transparent arrangement which does not need investigating by HMRC. That is what I would call " vanilla tax avoidance ". I doubt whether in Lord Fink's case we are talking about a few simple ISAs. That's not what Swiss banks are for. I look forward to hearing from your solicitors btw. I don't think you'll find any prepared to take it on a no win no fee basis.


Funny you should say that. What Fink and Miliband have both done is the same as you, you think Fink is a c*nt for doing it(I'm assuming your 'wac' didn't mean wicked and cool?). Vanilla tax avoidance, everyone's doing it.

I'm not going to sue you for calling people names on the Internet, but venting teenage angst has cost a lot of people a lot of money in libel claims. Remember that before your next outburst.

Report Mighty Whites 2008 February 13, 2015 11:55 AM GMT
The main issue is being ignored here.

The big problem is that legally the super rich are able to avoid paying millions and collectively billions in tax by being smart with the rules.

Both major parties seem to agree that it is wrong even the tories are banging on about aggressive tax avoidance quite why there is a need for an adjective is beyond me.

The tax code is 12,000 pages long and needs simplifying with clear guidance to what is acceptable and significant jail time for those who break the rules.
Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 12:00 PM GMT
The difference is my ISAs aren't with Swiss Banks CJ. Do you seriously think if all Fink had were ISAs he would be admitting even " vanilla " tax avoidance ?
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 12:03 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 6:00AM, salmon spray wrote:


The difference is my ISAs aren't with Swiss Banks CJ. Do you seriously think if all Fink had were ISAs he would be admitting even " vanilla " tax avoidance ?


You just did.

Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 12:04 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 5:55AM, Mighty Whites 2008 wrote:


The main issue is being ignored here.The big problem is that legally the super rich are able to avoid paying millions and collectively billions in tax by being smart with the rules.Both major parties seem to agree that it is wrong even the tories are banging on about aggressive tax avoidance quite why there is a need for an adjective is beyond me.The tax code is 12,000 pages long and needs simplifying with clear guidance to what is acceptable and significant jail time for those who break the rules.


Quite right. But you won't get any simplification as civil servants will block it.

Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 12:10 PM GMT
I am what you would no doubt call a leftie luvvie not a Tory peer CJ. I don't think Fink would dream of calling an ISA tax avoidance. No more than Osborne who is going to clamp down on it but has recently raised the limit on cash ISAs by over 100%
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 12:24 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 6:10AM, salmon spray wrote:


I am what you would no doubt call a leftie luvvie not a Tory peer CJ. I don't think Fink would dream of calling an ISA tax avoidance. No more than Osborne who is going to clamp down on it but has recently raised the limit on cash ISAs by over 100%


Yes, because tax avoidance isn't illegal.

You've come from a position of tax avoidance is wrong and 'dodgy' to a position of it's OK for me and Mili, but Tories are evil for doing it.

The journey has been interesting.

Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 12:29 PM GMT
No I haven't. I've said that
1) I don't think it would even cross Fink's mind that ISAs constitute tax avoidance but I agree that technically they are
2) If all that Fink has done is open the sort of British-based ISAs that I have then I apologise most sincerely for even thinking he is dodgy and so should Ed. it's a big IF though.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 12:36 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 6:29AM, salmon spray wrote:


No I haven't. I've said that 1) I don't think it would even cross Fink's mind that ISAs constitute tax avoidance but I agree that technically they are2) If all that Fink has done is open the sort of British-based ISAs that I have then I apologise most sincerely for even thinking he is dodgy and so should Ed. it's a big IF though.


As I told you yesterday the big clue is that Miliband won't repeat it without Parly privilege.

Report Mighty Whites 2008 February 13, 2015 1:24 PM GMT
CJ i think it goes deeper than civil servants both labour and tory are happy to bend over for filthy rich.
Report Mighty Whites 2008 February 13, 2015 1:26 PM GMT
I think milliband has made an error not coming out and saying fink is dodgy as well as a tax avoider.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 1:34 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 7:24AM, Mighty Whites 2008 wrote:


CJ i think it goes deeper than civil servants both labour and tory are happy to bend over for filthy rich.


Simplifying the tax code what mean big kudos to any Conservative Gov. As well as boosting business, but I can't see it getting past Sir Humphrey.

Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 1:35 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 7:26AM, Mighty Whites 2008 wrote:


I think milliband has made an error not coming out and saying fink is dodgy as well as a tax avoider.


Writs don't look good in the middle of an election campaign.

Especially when you've been exposed as going against a dead mans wishes to avoid tax yourself. Just stupid school socialist politics by Miliband to try smearing in the first place.

Report GAZO February 13, 2015 2:52 PM GMT
fink pretty much smeared himself
Report melv February 13, 2015 3:25 PM GMT
The main issue is being ignored here.

The big problem is that legally the super rich are able to avoid paying millions and collectively billions in tax by being smart with the rules.

Both major parties seem to agree that it is wrong even the tories are banging on about aggressive tax avoidance quite why there is a need for an adjective is beyond me.

The tax code is 12,000 pages long and needs simplifying with clear guidance to what is acceptable and significant jail time for those who break the rules.


Nice.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 3:53 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 8:52AM, GAZO wrote:


fink pretty much smeared himself


How did he do that then?

Report paddletoe February 13, 2015 4:07 PM GMT
I don't know how anyone can compare an isa with the kind of tax avoidance which looks for ways around the rules where experts in this field can always be one step ahead of the legislation.

Lots of bank accounts offer interest rates above the isa rates even when you deduct tax from them.

The issues here are obscene greed and unfairness where these very wealthy people are treated completely differently to the average person.
Report Dr Crippen February 13, 2015 4:18 PM GMT
Tax avoidance is simply claiming tax relief on items that are not taxable but would be if you didn't claim for them.

Aggressive tax avoidance is to take part in a scheme that's sole purpose is to muddy the waters concerning your tax affairs so that the tax liability is reduced.

Tax evasion is as I said earlier, not disclosing your business affairs to the taxman or some of them at least.
Report pawras February 13, 2015 4:26 PM GMT
I agree the tax system should be simplified, imagine all the dead wood public sector workers that won’t be needed. 
But where view parts ways with the lefties here is that you want it so that you can whack 50%+ tax on anyone earning more than the average with no room for manoeuvre (lol dream on comrade) , where as I’d advocate a much smaller flat rate, anything over 30% (all in including NI) is just robbery in my view. Someone makes a million , good on them in my eyes, where as you're all bitter jealous fks cos you know you've no chance of ever emulating it so you just want to take it from them.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 13, 2015 4:43 PM GMT
Please accept my humble apologies salmon. It's no excuse but in mitigation I'd had a couple of days of travelling and was a bit out of it when I got back and foolishly took one of the wives tablets and had a little soothing single malt and remember little past about 9pm last night. Rest assured you are one of the last people on here I'd fire a broadside at.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 13, 2015 4:49 PM GMT
On the substantive issue I am a little tired of politicians grandstanding. There doesn't need to be all this pallava so it clearly suits the politicians to entice the super rich to pitch up here and play the hokey cokey with our tax system because they will use very few of our public services and despite paying little income tax their other tax payments will be a very nice net benefit to the exchequer. Either politicians should shut up about it or if they feel moved by it they should sort this out.

The corner stone of our democracy is that parliament can make any law and they can break any law. To the extent they are powerless to do something it is because they choose to be so and it is our responsibility as citizens to be aware of this and remind them of it when they spout shiit.
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 5:17 PM GMT
http://gyazo.com/9c409802b21cd4f02d9f8d152bdfd9ee

Seems the unions are in on this as well, will nobody think of the proles?
Report 1st time poster February 13, 2015 5:24 PM GMT
some on here need to listen to the tapes,
millband called fink a tax AVOIDER, which fink has confirmed and he called cameron and some iof his ministers dodgey not fink by name,
he also repeated the remarks several times yesterday

anyone remember the day cameron and gideon both promised to publish  their tax returns,LaughLaughLaugh
Report CJ70 February 13, 2015 5:29 PM GMT

Feb 13, 2015 -- 11:24AM, 1st time poster wrote:


some on here need to listen to the tapes,millband called fink a tax AVOIDER, which fink has confirmed and he called cameron and some iof his ministers dodgey not fink by name,he also repeated the remarks several times yesterdayanyone remember the day cameron and gideon both promised to publish  their tax returns,


Yeah, course he did. Not sure you should look at going into spin.

Report Room 0182 February 13, 2015 7:22 PM GMT
Great comment from a tax specialist on 5 live on the way home today.

When asked about 'morality' as opposed to the letter of the law when paying tax, he said the problem was that someone has to decide what is moral and what isn't. If you put 10 people in a room you'll have 20 different definitions - the morality that applies to them and the morality that applies to everyone else.

See Miliband, Benn, Hodge, Livingstone for confirmation.
Report subversion February 13, 2015 9:21 PM GMT
Spot on Room 0182.

'Morality' is all fine and dandy for a student debate team, or a discussion over a pint.

A tax system, however, needs hard and fast rules. And whose job is it to make these rules? MPs.

So listening to MPs blithering on when THEY are the ones who are failing at their jobs is really quite pathetic.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 13, 2015 10:22 PM GMT
One thing I'd add to my old pappy's pronouncement that any opposition party will promise you the earth to get elected is that in the run up to the election they are all at it aving their imaginary wands in the air. Anything any of them say in the last few months of a parliament amounts to little more than vote for me. Then when the deed is done they look at the electorate like shiit on their shoe as if to say, you thought I was serious about that?
Report Eeternaloptimist February 13, 2015 10:28 PM GMT
These adverts on tell at the moment for these pensioner bonds are a prime example. The fact is that the prudent have been shafted for nearly a decade and a couple of months before the election Osborne in effect says, right chaps pull your trousers up and take a break because you'll be getting plenty more pounding after the election but right now we need the old codger vote to come out and vote for us. Of course the advert waxes lyrical about how it's time to do the right thing by the prudent. Conveniently forgetting what has happened and the fact that it isn't just pensioners who wish to save.
Report salmon spray February 13, 2015 10:39 PM GMT
Thank you Eo. Apology accepted     Happy
Having looked into this further I will repeat my accusation that Fink's tax affairs were dodgy. Whether they were illegal is a different matter but we certainly aren't talking about cash ISAs
Report cryoftruth February 14, 2015 9:24 AM GMT
And anybody who tríes to equate hiding money from the tax man in a secret Swiss bank with opening an ISA is bl00dy stupid.
Report CJ70 February 14, 2015 11:01 AM GMT

Feb 14, 2015 -- 3:24AM, cryoftruth wrote:


And anybody who tríes to equate hiding money from the tax man in a secret Swiss bank with opening an ISA is bl00dy stupid.


Has anyone tried to do that then?

Report Dr Crippen February 14, 2015 11:16 AM GMT
And anybody who tríes to equate hiding money from the tax man in a secret Swiss bank with opening an ISA is bl00dy stupid.

And who has ever made that comparison before you did?
Report salmon spray February 14, 2015 12:02 PM GMT
Well you asked me if I had an ISA CJ when we were talking about Fink's tax avoidance. I thought the implication was obvious.
Report Dr Crippen February 14, 2015 12:14 PM GMT
SS, who are you addressing?
Report CJ70 February 14, 2015 12:20 PM GMT

Feb 14, 2015 -- 6:02AM, salmon spray wrote:


Well you asked me if I had an ISA CJ when we were talking about Fink's tax avoidance. I thought the implication was obvious.


Sometimes I just read things on here and want to scream..

Report Dr Crippen February 14, 2015 12:22 PM GMT
Sorry SS, I missed the CJ after the ISA in your post.
Report Dr Crippen February 14, 2015 12:23 PM GMT
Fink's tax avoidance?

What was secret about his Swiss bank account?

It's like me accusing someone of taking out a secret ISA.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 14, 2015 12:28 PM GMT
Crybaby's boyfriend mustn't have left it any flowers by the bed this morning. Sobbing doesn't do it justice.
Report salmon spray February 14, 2015 1:04 PM GMT
You must scream a lot CJ.
Report pawras February 14, 2015 2:08 PM GMT
I wonder if people’s views subject to the nature or nurture theory?
Report 1st time poster February 14, 2015 2:45 PM GMT
this reminds me of blackies coulson non story post,the right and torys were laughing at milipede when fink kicked off about suing etc,but with todays storys in the papers and probably tomorrows this could be the final nail in daves chance of winning a majority,poll yesterday showed them 9 points behind in the seats that matter,the real torys will slice dave apart like a kebab post polling day
Report pawras February 14, 2015 4:17 PM GMT
I only saw a front page thing on the Guardian re HSBC but those who buy that aren't exactly floating voters.
Report Dr Crippen February 14, 2015 4:44 PM GMT
Wasn't the leftie Ken Livingstone taken to task over his tax affairs?
He'd done nothing illegal, but much was made of his efforts to reduce his tax liability.

And aren't Red Ed Miliband's personal tax avoidance schemes under the spotlight at the moment?
His fiddling to reduce death duties on his family home.
Then there was his fancy footwork on his property deals to save him paying thousands of pounds in capital gains tax.

Isn't that Red Ed a bit of a hypocrite let alone a fool, for bringing up the subject of tax avoidance when he's so active involved in it himself?
Report CJ70 February 14, 2015 9:25 PM GMT

Feb 14, 2015 -- 8:45AM, 1st time poster wrote:


this reminds me of blackies coulson non story post,the right and torys were laughing at milipede when fink kicked off about suing etc,but with todays storys in the papers and probably tomorrows this could be the final nail in daves chance of winning a majority,poll yesterday showed them 9 points behind in the seats that matter,the real torys will slice dave apart like a kebab post polling day


Aren't most of the stories about Miliband's tax avoidance?

Report pawras February 14, 2015 11:41 PM GMT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11413766/Top-Labour-donor-facing-tax-dodge-accusations.html

the whole interest free loan with no time limit is classic tax avoidance
Report Just Checking February 14, 2015 11:49 PM GMT
Not sure if it's been mentioned but a guy just a couple years ago made a massive donation to Labour in shares not cash to "avoid" the tax on it. The thing about this is Ed, by focusing on this is so much is so obviously inviting with a vengeance, journalists to look at his own party, MPS, front bench and donours, and try and find any avoidance and make him look a tit. It's obvioous that may happen, I don't think he has the smarts to realise this though. People in houses should check for glass before chucking stones and I don't think he's thought that bit through.

He's a 1 dimensional populist tw*t, and proves daily he's not fit to lead the country.
Report salmon spray February 14, 2015 11:58 PM GMT
I agree up to a point but there are more prominent Tories at it than Labour. Stands to reason cos not that many hedge fund managers ( to take one example ) donate to Labour. Cameron in fact has done f all about this problem ( as did at least 4 PMs before him ). I don't think he can continue to just come out with meaningless soundbites.
Report Just Checking February 15, 2015 12:15 AM GMT
Owen "I like Marx and Jumpers" Jones was on the daily politics (or this week), this week. He works for the guardian and was off on his sanctimonious leftist high horse as you'd expect. The guy opposing him pointed out the Guardian has had ridiculous complex tax avoding affairs via the Cayman Islands etc. His weak defence was then that he just works for them, he's not responsible for their tax affairs. Well if that's the case Mr Jones, why should Cameron be pilloried for the Tax affairs of private individuals linked to the Tory party, that happened when Labour was in power?
Report CJ70 February 15, 2015 10:08 AM GMT
Papers this morning filled with Labour tax avoidance. Even the one business man that supports Labour is now in trouble for tax avoidance.

Stoodent.
Report 1st time poster February 15, 2015 10:16 AM GMT
grant schapps not before time will be getting a good slapping of dave and george this morning after calling for milliband to publish his tax returns,they promised to publish theirs 5 years ago and we are still waiting,eds had a result up to now he and his advisors new what would be coming so must be comfortable with his own tax position,the labour donors in the papers today wont bother them ,but if the papers[and they must have tried]can sling some mud at the unions and mcluskeys tax positions then it might blow up in their face,at the moment its a free hit for ed as cameron and gideon for which seem obvious reasons dont want to get involved and hope it blows itself out
Report CJ70 February 15, 2015 10:38 AM GMT

Feb 15, 2015 -- 4:16AM, 1st time poster wrote:


grant schapps not before time will be getting a good slapping of dave and george this morning after calling for milliband to publish his tax returns,they promised to publish theirs 5 years ago and we are still waiting,eds had a result up to now he and his advisors new what would be coming so must be comfortable with his own tax position,the labour donors in the papers today wont bother them ,but if the papers[and they must have tried]can sling some mud at the unions and mcluskeys tax positions then it might blow up in their face,at the moment its a free hit for ed as cameron and gideon for which seem obvious reasons dont want to get involved and hope it blows itself out


Labour and union tax avoidance = good. Tory and business tax avoidance = bad.

The problem is if you take a moral stand on something and then are to be found stealing from the cookie jar it doesn't come over well. I know you want to look on the bright side of this, but it's just another clusterf*ck for Miliband to follow the last few months of c*ck ups and calamity.

Report 1st time poster February 15, 2015 3:02 PM GMT
thats put him 9 pts up in the seats that matter and 2pts up in latest overall polls,dave would love some of that clutterf#ck to fall his way,gawd help him if milliband hits a seam somewhere
Report CJ70 February 15, 2015 3:28 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2015 -- 9:02AM, 1st time poster wrote:


thats put him 9 pts up in the seats that matter and 2pts up in latest overall polls,dave would love some of that clutterf#ck to fall his way,gawd help him if milliband hits a seam somewhere


Polls have hardly moved, a lot of the polling you are talking about was carried out beforehand.

Report Eeternaloptimist February 15, 2015 3:29 PM GMT
It's more likely to be the gas mains.
Report CJ70 February 15, 2015 4:09 PM GMT

Feb 15, 2015 -- 9:29AM, Eeternaloptimist wrote:


It's more likely to be the gas mains.


"Miliband backs fracking" says Labour spokesman.

Report pawras February 19, 2015 5:39 PM GMT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11422875/Labours-in-trouble-over-Ed-Milibands-tax-hypocrisy.html


"Ed Miliband is in more trouble on tax avoidance. And this time it’s not even his own tax avoidance.

The electoral commission has just published its latest figures on party political donations. And hey presto, it emerges the biggest single private donor to the Labour Party is accountancy firm PricewaterhouseCoopers, who donated the equivalent of £386,605 in the last quarter. According to the House of Commons public accounts committee, PWC take part in “tax avoidance on an industrial scale”. The chair of that committee, Margaret Hodge, has previously said it was “inappropriate” for Labour to accept donations of this kind.
............................"
Report cryoftruth February 19, 2015 7:11 PM GMT
Tax avoidance is legal. Yes It is. However conspiracy to evade taxes is not legal and HSBC encouraged mass tax evasion when Green was the boss. The response of the Tories has been to put him into Government, give him a knighthood, praise him to the hit, cut his taxes and general lick his arrsse.
Report cryoftruth February 19, 2015 7:16 PM GMT
Of course the Tories treatment of Green and the other bankers is a bit different from the poor needing food banks, the sick, the disabled and older people.

The poor get their benefits slashed. Green and the other bankers get a tax cut. Could this have anything to do with the fact that the people in poverty do not make massive donations to the Conservative party but the bankers do?

Surely not. After all Greasy said "we are all in it together".

Stinking liar.
Report pawras February 19, 2015 7:25 PM GMT
".....a bit different from the poor needing food banks, the sick, the disabled and older people. "

why didn't you just add "think of the children" while you were at it?
Report unitedbiscuits February 19, 2015 7:43 PM GMT
The General Election clarifies what the parties stand for:
Conservatives look after the rich, Labour look after the poor. Adam Smith had it right when he said that the Law protects the rich. Tories are not interested in taxing the rich, they're built for robbing the poor. The next Tory scam, to help the rich take from the poor, is pensions. If they could tax people for breathing in and out, they would.
Report Room 0182 February 19, 2015 7:47 PM GMT
...and Cameron eats babies...and so did Maggie
Report unitedbiscuits February 19, 2015 7:56 PM GMT
No, Room 0182, they are/were both decent, capable people. But they are/were just instruments of the Party born to enforce the confiscation of land from the people via the Enclosures Acts. Tories = rich man's interest, and always shall. They have to  advocate policies sufficient to garner enough votes, but never forget that they despise the general run of voter they need to retain power.
Report pawras February 19, 2015 7:57 PM GMT
They don’t rob or take anything from ‘the poor’ because they’re net takers in the first , i.e. so all that happens is that they are given less from the net contributors.
The net contributors are the ones perpetually robbed by labour!

Ha!  Labour  THE biggest robbing barstewards where pensions are concerned, the gormless one eyes jock single handedly fkd the private pension system in this country just after they got into power in the late 90s.

“If they could tax people for breathing in and out, they would.”
Lol that’s exactly what you trots would do to anyone earning over x amount or have managed to scrape together a few quid through their lives.


Room0182 - provided they're from labour voting parents ;-0
Report bongo February 19, 2015 8:10 PM GMT
I think you're close ub, but would rephrase it to:
Con look after the rich, Lab attempt to look after the poor.

Con seem to know who the rich are, and target them accordingly with agricultural and housing subsidies, pensions you can cash out of at 55 and pensioner bonds if you have 10k of loose change. It's disgusting but they know their customer base.
Lab don't seem to know who the actual poor are though and how to get through to them - it's not food bank use per se but what caused it, and hardly ever does the food bank users say that benefits are in place but are insufficient. (For functional purposes food bank use is lower than 2006 btw.) It's not those on benefits who don't have to actively seek work as a condition of their claim. Or people with free or subsidised housing.

The poor can be people who earn just enough or have just enough savings or income to be out of range of welfare. The poor are also the people affected by benefit delays - government is sooo slow. And the poor are also those afflicted by dependency issues ( drugs, alcohol, compulsive gambling etc ). Then there are the disadvantaged such as those who cannot get a GP appointment because they're busy. Labour seem very weak on the nuances of all this.
Report unitedbiscuits February 19, 2015 8:34 PM GMT
Good points bongo, but the choice is very simple:
Tories intend to help the strong.
Labour intend to help the weak.
Report CJ70 February 19, 2015 9:16 PM GMT

Feb 19, 2015 -- 2:34PM, unitedbiscuits wrote:


Good points bongo, but the choice is very simple:Tories intend to help the strong.Labour intend to help the weak.


You're not working for a low wage then if you think Labour are on the side of the weak.

Report Comrade_Karla February 20, 2015 1:45 AM GMT
The truth is the truth.

Indeed it is. These ratbags should either pay up or be deported, stripped off citizenship and all their ill gotton gains.

Why would tax inspectors want to bring anybody to justice for complying with the law?

You will find that the law is based on morality. What many of these large companies have done is immoral, ergo illegal. We need retrospective laws that allow us to go after these people and take what they owe us.

Tax avoidance is legal.

You're like a stupid little boy. Read above and educate yourself.
Report pawras February 20, 2015 7:38 AM GMT
Well you gave me a laugh with that one !
Report subversion February 20, 2015 9:10 AM GMT
Comrade_Karla
immoral, ergo illegal


LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

so touchingly naive Laugh
Report pawras February 20, 2015 9:22 AM GMT
so what is legal is to be defined by the highly subjective moral outlook of the trots

still laughing !!!!LaughLaughLaugh
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