Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Eeternaloptimist
05 Aug 14 00:15
Joined:
Date Joined: 28 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 38,236 | Blogger: Eeternaloptimist's blog
Why is there so much blubbing going on?

Surely it shouldn't be the sound of sobs but popping of corks we hear?

Hamas are a terrorist organisation dedicated to the obliteration of Israel. Their warped sense of right and wrong means they invite Israel to try to kill them whilst they hide amongst civilians. They play chicken with babies in their arms.

Who but a fool could offer succour to such people? Like most of these fundamentalist nutters there is nothing you can give them that they wouldn't rather take by force happily leaving you lying headless in the gutter.
Pause Switch to Standard View If Hamas have won............
Show More
Loading...
Report moisok August 6, 2014 11:22 PM BST
Hamas don't want peace and neither does northernliar. People have no idea what they are dealing with and what these islamists have to offer.
Look at the latest murdereous headlines.
Report moisok August 6, 2014 11:24 PM BST
Funny how you never ever saw a Hamas 'fighter'  - probably hiding behind a bunch of children!!  Or in a hole somewhere - when they are not hiding in a foreign country.
Report Eeternaloptimist August 6, 2014 11:25 PM BST
That's a very interesting article Irish which highlights some of the problems wading through the war of propaganda which is being fought alongside the conflict on the ground with both sides seeking to get their message across.
Report Irish_Celtic August 6, 2014 11:25 PM BST
This sort of headline will certainly help sort out the middle east.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715466/Israeli-official-calls-concentration-camps-Gaza-conquest-entire-Gaza-Strip-annihilation-fighting-forces-supporters.html
Report Irish_Celtic August 6, 2014 11:28 PM BST
Your government is reviewing its arms deals with this rogue state.

People have started boycotting goods from this rogue state.

The game is up , ethnic cleansing , apartheid , and genocide have no place in the year 2014
Report Irish_Celtic August 6, 2014 11:30 PM BST
I agree  with you EO interesting article.
Report moisok August 6, 2014 11:33 PM BST
northern liar's support of terrorists is sickening
Report ebulGery August 6, 2014 11:40 PM BST
interesting eternal

1900 dead Palestinians for 3 dead Israelis
who looks the more evil to you????????????
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 12:04 AM BST
I suspect Israel have withdrawn for PR reasons.
This one sided massacre of the Palestinians does not look that good.
People with normal feelings are objecting, which they should.

Israel cannot afford to lose the support of the West and the US.
If public opinion were to turn against Israel, then our governments may be forced to abandon their support of Israel.
Israel rely on this , especially from the US, they would become vulnerable themselves if they ever lost this.

Whatever one may think of Hamas tactics, they have a cause - 'The Freedom of Palestine'
They believe their country has been stolen from them by the Jews, in fact so do most Arabs.
If you look throughout human history people are always prepared to die in defence of their country.

So we always come to the same thing, does Israel have a right to exist?, even though our own political
commentators ignore this, they cannot. Otherwise they all start from a false assumption so anything that follows is not valid.

I do not believe Israel has any right to exist myself.
But I also know they are not going anywhere.

I fear the solution will the genocide of the Palestinians sadly, or near genocide.
But I will never approve of this.
But I, like many others, have no solution.
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 12:05 AM BST
Ebul

I respect your right to disagree but I try to use logic rather than be swayed by emotion or pure numbers. I agree if you look purely at the numbers it looks terrible but for me intent is the key issue. It's the way people trained in the law tend to think. For example, if I intend to kill you and do so that may be classed as murder. If I don't intend to kill you or if I don't care and thus your death is caused by my negligence then that may be classed as manslaughter. Both can see you sent down with a "life" sentence but perhaps you can see where I'm going in terms of which case is usually seen as being more serious? You could argue does it matter? I'm still dead. The law and as I say people trained in the law would usually say yes.

So I return to my earlier point. We know what Hamas intend to do. The fact that they are currently poor at inflicting what they want to do is neither here nor there. Not only is the intent there but they have shown on many occasions in the past their murderous blood lust directed quite clearly and deliberately at civilians.

The key question which I am trying to figure out in my own mind and which could have a profound influence on my own thinking is what is the Israeli mindset? I've traditionally believed that they don't generally deliberately set out to kill civiians. In my mind that sets them apart from Hamas. If I were to feel that this attitude had changed that would change my view of Israel. To be fair even if I thought they didn't give a shiit if civilians were killed or not whilst that would change my view it wouldn't cause me to think of them as being as evil in intent as Hamas fr the reasons I've given. There is a groundswell which is gaining traction in peoples minds that this is the case. I want to be fair and I want to take a dispassionate view of it. I'm certainly less certain my mind now than I have been previously about Israel's attitude.

Even so it will only be if and when they deliberately and routinely target civilians presumably to break the Palestinians and as a matter of policy that I will believe that they have reached the level of barbarity and depravity of Hamas.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 12:07 AM BST
I refer you to my previous post, I suspect we crossed
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 12:09 AM BST
Ebul

From your last post why does Israel have any less right to exist than a state called Palestine?

Israel is currently functioning as a state and has had statehood for nearly 70 years. There has never been a country of Palestine. Ever.

Even if you say it isn't about the country but the peoples I'd ask again by what logic do the Palestinians have more right to a country than the Jews?
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 12:12 AM BST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 12:13 AM BST
Going on from that and again using logic no country has a "right" to exist. Countries are constructs of man. There are countries which exist now which didn't exist 100 years ago. There aren't countries now which did exist thirty years ago. Countries themselves are a fluid, evolving and man made construct often arising through the machinations of men with strategic interests and a pen and paper.
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 12:14 AM BST
I'm asking for you to explain what you believe ebul. I can read the case for Palestine and the case for Israel at my leisure.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 12:15 AM BST
Most modern Jews are immigrants to Palestine, or their parents or grandparents
this is not their country..my explanation

still hold your own opinion

but you see everything rests on this argument, I have my opinion
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 12:21 AM BST
Of course you do but I'm just asking you to think about and explain your logic. Boiling it down your logic is only based on timing. We are all supposedly out of Africa. Our ancestors all migrated. The greatest power the world has ever known by your logic shouldn't exist because it is built on immigration with the indiginous population marginalised. Same goes for many other countries around the world with Britain being the one doing the immigrating and marginalising. Is there any more legitimacy conferred on a nation because it is a nation of great descendants ten times removed rather than descended from two, three or four generations?
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 12:24 AM BST
Just a few paragraphs from an article in "Israel today " which of course is very biased and blames Hamas for everything , some of the posters will agree with their viewpoint, but the point is the tone of what is accepted generally amongst Israeli people , in that a genocide of the Palestinians is permissible . We have seen  this time and time again from comments made my Israeli politicians and the general public. So basically from my viewpoint ,they give them two options - lie down and let us take all your land and turn you all into destitute refugees - or - resist us and we will annihilate you all. How is that legally acceptable in 2014?


The Palestinians have realized by now that “catastrophes” (“nakba” in Arabic) are their best chance of achieving their dream of wiping Israel off the Middle East map. Though their first “nakba” in 1948 was unplanned, their most recent one is a self-imposed catastrophe designed to turn Israel into a pariah state.

If allowed to continue, this strategy that is captivating a gullible international audience will lead not to Israel’s destruction, but rather to a grand “catastrophe ”Nakba" against which all previous will pale in comparison.

If the world cares anything for the Palestinians, it should do its utmost to stop these dangerous cycles of violence. And the way to do that is not endlessly attempting to drag Israel before the International Criminal Court in The Hague, but instead by exposing Hamas’ strategy of self-imposed catastrophes.

The alternative is taking a chance that Israel will eventually be forced into a level of brutality previously unseen in order to secure its survival, and in so doing risk the final loss of all legitimacy in the eyes of the world.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 12:46 AM BST
Eeternaloptimist  • August 7, 2014 12:21 AM BST 


Of course you do but I'm just asking you to think about and explain your logic. Boiling it down your logic is only based on timing. We are all supposedly out of Africa. Our ancestors all migrated. The greatest power the world has ever known by your logic shouldn't exist because it is built on immigration with the indiginous population marginalised. Same goes for many other countries around the world with Britain being the one doing the immigrating and marginalising. Is there any more legitimacy conferred on a nation because it is a nation of great descendants ten times removed rather than descended from two, three or four generations?


I have thought about it and explained it

By the greatest power I assume you mean the US. No it should not exist actually. But now it does, also 400 years since white settlements started. We accept it now.

But it does prove timing is everything, otherwise any country could invade any other country and say it is mine.

I believe it was a mistake to create Israel, we betrayed the Palestinian Arabs I feel. Although there were 10% Jews there at the time.
Jewish immigration was the big problem, which led to the state of Israel.

I do not believe Israel cannot cease to exist at the moment.

So I have no solution. But my heart is with the Palestinians, it always will be.

This is also the biggest PR blunder Israel has ever made. But I don't know the feeling in the US.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 1:01 AM BST
Your last post, seems to spell out large amounts of blood as far as I can, celtic.
But we are on the same side.

I would hope for a bit of peace now for a while.
But the long term future for the Palestinians does look bleak.

I do know what this Nakba means. Which may happen one day. I think we all know what this is.
I suggest Israel think on this as well...I know they are holding all the aces at the moment, but they need to think.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 1:07 AM BST
I would wish our country to become neutral now.
It seems to me, the only moral thing we can do.

I would hope the same from the US, but I am not sure that will ever happen.
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 8:52 AM BST
Irish_Celtic totally wins the argument with unbiased.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 9:24 AM BST
If the world cares anything for the Palestinians, it should do its utmost to stop these dangerous cycles of violence.



exactly!!!


so how do we change the ideology of a people hell bent on the destruction of Israel? an ideology that uses its own people as a shield against retaliatory attacks.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 9:28 AM BST
also it must be said to stop Israel expanding existing settlements or constructing new settlements Plain
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 10:02 AM BST
Amnesty accuses Israel of deliberately targeting Gaza health workers




Amnesty International has urged an immediate investigation into 'mounting evidence' that Israeli forces launched apparently deliberate attacks against hospitals and health professionals in the Gaza strip.




In a press statement released on Thursday, the Human Rights group said it received disturbing testimonies from doctors, nurses, and ambulance personnel regarding IDF operations that left six medics dead.




"The harrowing descriptions by ambulance drivers and other medics of the utterly impossible situation in which they have to work, with bombs and bullets killing or injuring their colleagues as they try to save lives, paint a grim reality of life in Gaza," said Philip Luther, Middle East and North Africa Director at Amnesty International.   




"Even more alarming is the mounting evidence that the Israeli army has targeted health facilities or professionals. Such attacks are absolutely prohibited by international law and would amount to war crimes. They only add to the already compelling argument that the situation should be referred to the International Criminal Court."




An ambulance services supervisor at the Al-Aqsa Martyrs hospital reported shelling on the medical facility that lasted for half an hour.




"I heard bombing that shook the hospital. It was a shelling that had hit the fourth floor, the pregnancy and caesarean unit. Then there were a few more hits. People were terrified, patients ran out, doctors could not enter to help the injured and remove the dead," said Jaber Khalil Abu Rumileh.




Ambulance worker, A’ed Mustafa Bur’i, was burned to death on 25 July in Beit Hanoon after a shell hit the clearly marked vehicle he was travelling in.




The director of the Palestinian Red Crescent Society’s (PRCS) emergency and ambulance unit, Dr Bashar Murad, said at least two PRCS ambulance workers had been killed, at least 35 injured and 17 health vehicles left out of service after attacks by the Israeli army.




Hospitals, doctors and ambulance staff, reported increased attacks after Israel launched a ground operation in the Gaza strip on July 17
Report susie August 7, 2014 11:21 AM BST
unbiased


susie 06 Aug 14 22:05 
So the figure is approx. 1,200> Hamas commanders and commandants, and less than 600 civilians?



With the use of outstanding intelligence and expert marksmen (neither of which I am contesting IDF have) that ratio is achievable.


With air strikes and tanks in a built up area where the target has been identified as using "human shields"  it seems highly unlikely.

Do you have a source please unbiased?
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 11:29 AM BST
Am I missing something? Israeli fire the shells but Israelis can't give a true account of the damage because they are not there when the shells explode.
Report ExtremeX August 7, 2014 11:32 AM BST
Irish_Celtic 07 Aug 14 10:02 
Amnesty accuses Israel of deliberately targeting Gaza health workers




thanks for the cut'n'paste
but...but....but
does it physically hurt
to endlessly argue a point being
both strongly in favour of it and against it
simultaneously?

i asked a bunch of sane
people that question but
they couldn't answer because
they are not familiar with the experience
Report ExtremeX August 7, 2014 11:36 AM BST
susie 06 Aug 14 22:05

Do you have a source please unbiased?



yup, let me help you with that, he does,
you do, everyone does, the source is the
same as always
Report unbiased August 7, 2014 6:40 PM BST
The only forumites looking to win "the argument are the handwringing anti brigade,as there isn't an argument to be won or lost,just bare facts.
For a start,who are the experts that distinguish between a Hamas combatant,and a Hamas civilian,of course,with the exception of women and children.
  How comes over a period of nearly 2 years,building up the stockpile of launchers,rockets,and missiles,that families never complained to their spouses that these actions were putting the lives of their families at risk,as a rocket ,or missile,fired from a houses backyard,or underground bunker thereby becomes a legitimate military target.It is Hamas that are responsible for the resulting actions.
  Regarding freedom of movement across various border positions,Hamas used to have that freedom when leaving Gaza,but severely abused the trust by sending in a stream of suicide bombers into Israel.So now ,rightly,in the interest of security,there are strict checks at all crossings,practically eliminating chances of a suicide bomber performing.
   Had Hamas behaved as civilised human beings they would have still had the freedom of movement they ask for,and more importantly could work together on various projects with Israel.
  However they chose the missile,rocket,and suicide belt in preference,apart from smuggling tunnels that reached into Israel,and have paid for their actions.
  No arguments to be won,just the relevant facts brought out in the open.Disagree as much as you like,but the facts tell the story.
Report ExtremeX August 7, 2014 6:42 PM BST
wow, that's some post
you must have a lot of time
on your hands

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report unbiased August 7, 2014 6:46 PM BST
Does the truth hurt?And yes,I do have time on my hands,as I wear a watch!
Report ExtremeX August 7, 2014 6:51 PM BST
trust me I couldn't be arsed
to read all thatLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report par August 7, 2014 6:55 PM BST
WHAT A DICKH3D
Report ExtremeX August 7, 2014 6:57 PM BST
don't be offended
-that's just me

i am sure "fellow posters"
will take the time to read it


LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report unbiased August 7, 2014 7:13 PM BST
Archbishop Alexios,leader of the Christians in Gaza,has stated in an interview that a launcher was placed in his church,and was used for firing rockets by Hamas.Not surprising!
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 7:18 PM BST
" Work together on various projects with Israel " Laugh
Report par August 7, 2014 7:30 PM BST
I laughed at that one as well Celtic.

Perhaps gardeners in the illegal settlements, labourers building the apartheid wall, perhaps washing cars for some guy from Brooklyn who is living in his father's house.

You could not make it up.
Report call me a taxi August 7, 2014 7:33 PM BST
Irish_Celtic 07 Aug 14 10:02 
Amnesty accuses Israel of deliberately targeting Gaza health workers


ExtremeX
thanks for the cut'n'paste
but...but....but
does it physically hurt
to endlessly argue a point being
both strongly in favour of it and against it
simultaneously?

i asked a bunch of sane
people that question but
they couldn't answer because
they are not familiar with the experience



So you think your only mate, Irish_Celtic, is 'Larry' now?

That should make EO laugh.
Report susie August 7, 2014 7:36 PM BST
back o the question unbiased

So the figure is approx. 1,200> Hamas commanders and commandants, and less than 600 civilians?

Are those the "bare facts"

A short Yes or No will suffice.
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 9:38 PM BST
Figures released by UNICEF, the UN children's fund, indicate that 73 percent of the victims, or 1,354 people, were civilians.

Of that number, at least 429 were children - around 30 percent of the civilian casualties.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 9:54 PM BST
an appalling statistic

this was in reprisal for one, sorry three now, Israeli Civilians

looks like butchery to me
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 9:56 PM BST
Gratuitous killing, agreed ebulGery
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 9:58 PM BST
Still waiting for unbiased to publish a source for his figures.........
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:01 PM BST
INTERVIEW: Palestinian Leader Stresses Pro-Hamas Rallies in Gaza Are Fake

Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian journalist, political commentator and prominent dissident who decided to come to the West Bank and to cover the conflict during this crucial period of time, stresses that most Gazans are now opposed to Hamas, while many Palestinians in the West Bank have become Hamas supporters in the wake of Operation Protective Edge.

Aug 07, 2014, 09:00PM | Rachel Avraham

“While the Washington Institute for Near East Policy reported that most Gazans are against Hamas, we just saw pro-Hamas rallies in Gaza. So is one of the most prestigious research groups in the world mistaken or was Lisa Daftari, the Fox News reporter who spoke to Gazans on the ground, mistaken,” Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian journalist, political commentator and prominent dissident who is the leader of the Palestinian community in Jordan, pondered.




“Lisa Daftari is now facing a threat to be killed by Hamas operatives and supporters on the ground or even in the US,” Zahran stressed. “The rallies are fakes! Remember the rallies of thousands of supporters in favor of Sadamn Hussein. When the Americans landed, the same people started urinating over his statues on cameras. I have spoken to Gazans. Most Gazans I speak to hate Hamas with a passion. When Hamas fires from next to their homes and Israel comes to bomb, only an animal could be in support of Hamas. Even animals would not want someone causing the destruction of their homes.”

“The average Gazan hates Hamas and not only because of the war. Hamas affiliates in Gaza amount for ten percent of the population,” Zahran stressed. “They control the rest, just like in North Korea. Those ten percent manage to control the trade and the tunnel business, while Gazans suffer. Most Gazans are angry with Hamas. Now we have to be clear; Palestinians hate Israel. This might change in thirty years or so, but they hate Israel. So Gazans hate Israel, but for sure and I can authoritatively say this, they hate Hamas even more now.”

Zahran explains that average Gazans hate Hamas because they “treat them badly, beat them up, and above all, killed 2,000 anti-Hamas people before the war even happened within two days. Hamas also executes severe control over trade with a confirmed 680 millionaires in Gaza who are Hamas members” while the masses live in poverty.

“For example, one Gazan told me how he entered Gaza upon arrival from the UK. He had two cell phones. Hamas people calmly told him he only needs one and took one of his phones,” Zahran stressed. “In addition, they control the car trade, execute a monopoly over food, and control everything. They make the prices skyrocket even higher than they normally would under the siege.” He also noted that Hamas provokes Egypt, even though average Gazans need to pass through Rafah. “Egypt would have helped them at least cross” if it was not for Hamas’s actions, Zahran emphasized. “Gazans told me all of this. I did not discuss this with secular American educated Palestinians sitting in Amman or Tel Aviv,” Zahran stressed.

Gazans were shocked that Hamas has rejected numerous ceasefires with Israel while the Hamas leadership safely lives in a Qatari mansion: “A Gazan school teacher told me: Where are the Hamas leaders? Haniyah is in hiding. Mashaal is in Qatar. Mohammed Nazal is in Amman sharing his meals with Jordan’s King.”

According to Zahran, “Not a single Gazan that I spoke to was not against Hamas. Come on, do you guys think we are animals? That we would love seeing Hamas terrorists hiding among our crowds just to have Israeli F-16’s bomb us so we can get the sympathy? Please understand, yes, Gaza elected Hamas, but people make mistakes. Didn’t the Germans elect Hitler? Were the Germans still in favor of Hitler when Russia and the Allies were marching into Berlin and bombing the hell out of it?”
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 10:02 PM BST
unbiased was wrong and you spanked him hard, Irish_Celtic.
Lets move on..
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 10:06 PM BST
There burying the innocent civillians in there hundreds and alleged22 seems to have overlooked this, oi ignorant,have a word with yourself
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 10:10 PM BST
Rachel Avraham -  No doubt an independent thinker and as unbiased as you Alleged Laugh

You can catch up with her of her work at jewishpress.com Cry
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:11 PM BST
have a word with yourself they will not even give their own people time to bury their dead



Hamas on Thursday is threatening to renew its rocket fire on Israel when the current ceasefire ends at 8 a.m. on Friday if Israel does not meet its demands. The Palestinian delegation has hardened its stance since the arrival in Cairo of Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders from the Gaza Strip.



Hamas is trying to create an image of victory on Thursday as a Hamas spokesman announced that the war with Israel is not over. He said that there are still Jihad warriors in the field with their fingers on the trigger and they will not hesitate to shoot rockets at Tel Aviv. He also said that the IDF did not eliminate all the terror tunnels leading from Gaza into Israel.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:12 PM BST
more interested with what this man had to say tbh

Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian journalist, political commentator and prominent dissident
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 10:13 PM BST
Proper deluded is our alleged
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 10:14 PM BST
Yeah - not the first time you copy and pasted from outrageously pro Zionist web pages.  As if that proves anything or gives a balanced point of view.
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 10:15 PM BST
Well he did say the West Bank belongs to the twelve tribes of Israel, but I blame his Zionist wife , she has clearly brainwashed him.
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 10:16 PM BST
alleged - How can *Israel's dear friend" Mudar Zahran know that the rallies in Gaza are fakes? He lives in the UK since being indicted in Jordan for inciting hatred.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:19 PM BST
or what hamas spokesman abu Oneida stated


A spokesman for the military wing of Hamas stated tonight that the terror organization will resume firing at Israel “if Israel does not agree in principle to the establishment of a port in Gaza.”
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 10:20 PM BST
Any problem with a port in Gaza?
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:20 PM BST
hey celtic enough, I do not attack you and yours
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 10:21 PM BST
They offered a 10 year ceasefire 3 weeks ago for the same conditions ffs.

Basic human rights .
Report unitedbiscuits August 7, 2014 10:24 PM BST
Or they could just stick with Israel's imposed border three miles offshore. It means the Palestinians can always see the guns of the Israeli warships pointing at them.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 10:25 PM BST
Since Israel has clearly demonstrated it can smash into Gaza at any time

I think it can grant that wish

Yes it wants to keep the Palestinians as some kind of permanent prisoner

they can't do that
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:26 PM BST
Any problem with a port in Gaza?

not from me but the Israelis might have something to say about possible arms etc being shipped in.

also if there was a port who would really benefit when you read

they control the car trade, execute a monopoly over food, and control everything. They make the prices skyrocket even higher than they normally would under the siege,
the Hamas leadership safely lives in a Qatari mansion: “A Gazan school teacher told me: Where are the Hamas leaders? Haniyah is in hiding. Mashaal is in Qatar. Mohammed Nazal is in Amman sharing his meals with Jordan’s King.”
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 10:28 PM BST
That is the Palestinians right you know
Also the Palestinians elected Hamas...your divide and rule don't work with me
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 10:28 PM BST
Alleged22,its an open air refugee camp,are you backward
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 10:40 PM BST
Taxi

Melly hsn't forgiven Irish for telling him that I could spank him at will. He's officially now in the club. Laugh
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 10:44 PM BST
Remember E.O more of the issue,less of yourself,remember softlad
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 10:44 PM BST
Let's be fair here. By inclination I want to support Israel as an independent entity and I do draw a distinction between deliberate targeting of civilians and civilians dying if you are trying to kill Jihadists hiding amongst them. However, we had a series of figures about who was being killed from unbiased which suggested that Israel was being remarkably effective in difficult circumstances in getting to the terrorists. A slew of data came back from other people and sources apparently rebutting that. Since then unbiased hasn't furnished the forum with further particulars. That causes me considerable concern.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 10:56 PM BST
its an open air refugee camp because of who? backward ffs im sat here in my detached home chilling, unless hamas start firing rockets at me I really don,t give a fcuk where they fire them tbh, but my advice to them is stop firing at the neighbour that can crush you easily and put your people first.... how much do rockets/arms cost couldn't this money be spent more wisely, infrastructure, healthcare, education?....
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 11:01 PM BST
I think united biscuits answered that eo

Figures released by UNICEF, the UN children's fund, indicate that 73 percent of the victims, or 1,354 people, were civilians.


just over a quarter were hamas.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 11:10 PM BST
bbc,s embarrassed dad   1.01 bullied at school
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 11:12 PM BST
You`re seething ho ho Laugh
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 11:14 PM BST
This is a one sided view

The problems remains, should Israel exist?...well their claim is they have invaded and conquered it
so it is theirs

But then by right the Palestinians have a right to fight this. So their war against Israel
is in fact a just war.

You can question their tactics and the sense in doing this, but you can never take away their cause.
Unless Israel is planning on genocide, or keeping them as some kind of permanent prisoner, well this is hardly right.

Still the problem is insolvable now
I just so regret we British did not leave Palestine in 1919 as we promised
allowing the Palestinians their own land...but we cannot change history

Every time Israel does things like they have just done, they lose me on grounds of humanity
What they regard as just defence, some regard of us  as excessive.
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 11:15 PM BST
LaughLaugh
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 11:15 PM BST
was it me or somebody else LaughLaugh
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 11:16 PM BST
He made that assertion alleged but that flatly contradicted what unbiased said. I can only speak for myself but I'd either be back on to challenge that or I'd concede the point because there seemed to be a significant discrepency which some people may find alarming. Unbiased did come back on to have a rant but he didn't address the point and I'm surprised by that because he's a pretty decent fella in my book.
Report Eeternaloptimist August 7, 2014 11:18 PM BST
ebul

The British promised both Palestinians and Jews their own states. I can't understand the logic of saying they should have kept their word to the Palestinians but not the Jews.
Report call me a taxi August 7, 2014 11:26 PM BST
alleged22
07 Aug 14 22:20   
hey celtic enough, I do not attack you and yours


The sooner you realise that Irish_Celtic is the banned northernlad, as is bbc's embarrased dad, the sooner you will understand that insults are quite common.

The same as his only ally, ExtremeX, aka the banned Menelaus.
Report moisok August 7, 2014 11:37 PM BST
meanwhile in Iraq, nigeria, syria, sierra leone, etc etc  much more slaughter has been taking place by islamists  makes gaza look like a tea party
but the islamist supporters on here remain silent
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 11:40 PM BST
The British had no right to make this promise......it is not our country Eternal
It is the fact that we stayed which had causes what we have today

Why did we not hand it over to the 90% Palestinian Arab population and 10% Jewish population
at the time???????

They had supported us fighting the Turks, so we should have kept our word, it is now your country.
Report moisok August 7, 2014 11:41 PM BST
muslims kill more muslims than any western intervention
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 11:43 PM BST
Then why are concerned Moisok???????????????????

still does not justify our intervention does it?
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 11:43 PM BST
The British had no right to make this promise...

whoever conquers has this right according to one of your left wing pals
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 11:45 PM BST
Well I did not give us this right
as far as I am concerned we are fighting the Turks our enemies in WW1

once they were defeated we should have left
Report moisok August 7, 2014 11:47 PM BST
what is so funny is how Isis / iraq/ syria and other islamist terrors  were almost written out of the news over a small scuffle between israel and gaza
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 11:47 PM BST
The cure is simple.A two state soloution,it`ll happen in our lifetime,look at N.Ireland 25 years ago compared to now.
Report Irish_Celtic August 7, 2014 11:52 PM BST
This small scuffle , or what Israel has done over the last month, will not be legitimised   by what is happening with Isis.

Maybe its written out because the two great white knights Tony and George are to blame for most of it.
Report ebulGery August 7, 2014 11:52 PM BST
There is a slight bias in your posts moisok, I have to admit


That is a good thing to work towards bbc, I agree

But to make sense of what is happening now, one must have a sense of what has led to this

Otherwise none of it would make any sense, but I do wonder how many people actually understand this
Report alleged22 August 7, 2014 11:56 PM BST
look at N.Ireland 25 years ago compared to now.


heard it all now Laugh
Report bbc`s embarrassed dad August 7, 2014 11:59 PM BST
sorry alleged22 I forgot you havent been there Laugh
Report moisok August 8, 2014 12:01 AM BST
you won't see many threads started by the hamas supporters about the other groups particularly Isis because they support hamas and their terrorist buddies it is so hypocritical  !! and funny even
Report epicurean August 8, 2014 12:18 AM BST
Wrong moisok its not many its any .
Report alleged22 August 8, 2014 9:27 AM BST
but I have bbc many times Wink
Report moisok August 8, 2014 10:02 AM BST
Hamas do not want peace - check  the latest news - not that the reporting makes it that obvious- so subtle bias in the guardian  Israel retaliates after rockets fired from gaza. These are the silly biased headlines the anti Israeli lobby you lot support like.

The language is cleverly crafted - the rockets came from gaza !!  But ISRAEL retaliates - do you see the subtle  difference - no one fired these rockets - they just came from Gaza!!!

the headline should be  HAMAS BREAKS CEASEFIRE FIRING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL

but no - they can't say that can they!!!  This is the line you hamas supporters like to follow.
Report Vubiant August 8, 2014 10:14 AM BST
Mushir Al Masri , a Hamas MP , stated Thursday ...'We have won the military battle'.

Looks like the international media have got things slightly, er, confused .
Report Irish_Celtic August 8, 2014 10:55 AM BST
Actually the ceasefire was not extended after talks failed and Israel returned home.

Who was the first casualty ?

A small girl killed after a mosque was bombed.

Im shocked.
Report unbiased August 8, 2014 10:59 AM BST
Eeternal,you know I don't get into petty arguments,especially with those whose views are entrenched in hatred.I stand by what I say about the figures,but at the moment there aren't any completely accurate figures available to be able to post.I only like to post facts,unlike the handwringers who like to post their private thoughts as facts,or anything from the Gaza propoganda machine
  The difficulty with the figures is the problem of them being reported solely by Gaza,who won't give the true story as to how many were combatants,as many don't wear a uniform,but nevertheless are armed,and are fighters.
  Families were used as human shields,which is a tragic state of affairs.
Report Irish_Celtic August 8, 2014 11:06 AM BST
Even the Israeli propaganda  machine only claimed 47 % were combatants but hey you clearly know more than everybody else. Laugh

Liar.
Report susie August 8, 2014 11:12 AM BST
there aren't any completely accurate figures available to be able to post.

Thank you unbiased.
Report Room 0182 August 8, 2014 1:15 PM BST
From the BBC

"An analysis by the New York Times looked at the names of 1,431 casualties and found that "the population most likely to be militants, men ages 20 to 29, is also the most overrepresented in the death toll. They are 9% of Gaza's 1.7 million residents, but 34% of those killed whose ages were provided."

"At the same time, women and children under 15, the least likely to be legitimate targets, were the most underrepresented, making up 71% of the population and 33% of the known-age casualties."

Now I wonder why that would be.......
Report ExtremeX August 8, 2014 2:30 PM BST
Padded Room


it doesn't matter what character you incessantly
parrot your rancid belief system under,
it's still parroted, skin deep,
shallow, one dimensional and
without a morsel of critical thinking
-it is also appalling


so let's not be hasty to call the slaughter
of innocent children a war crime,
look what a Jewish reporter from the
zionist New York Times and a Jewish
statistician from the BBC who interned
with the zionist Jerusalem Post
can do with the numbers

hooooray, their conclusion is that we don't
have enough information, and assuming that a crime
against humanity was committed might
be prematureShockedShockedShocked



i guess if you assume that Palestinian
males between the ages of 20-29 are most likely to be a militant,
well, hell, screw the most likely, when massaging
the numbers it looks a lot better if you just assume they ALL are,
and if can only get the IDF to label every civilian death
a Hamas or Jihad militant, never mind they were wearing civilian
clothing and carried no weapons, the IDF must have
found Hamas or Jihad membership cards complete
with photo ID in their hip pocket,
and problem solved even further

the zionists can now sell the story to those
who can't think for themselves that the militant deaths
are overrepresented
-it's not our fault, those were pin pointed strikes
-wtf is the IDF supposed to do if the cowards are hiding behind children
-we are only defending our right to exist

Anders Behring Breivik, the lunatic who
slaughtered innocent children, has a
right to exist too, but that doesn't mean that he should




nothing to see here
(as if there is anyone besides
gus and i to see it anyways)
just a disturbed a***hole
who found sanctuary on here
continuing to trivialize the death
of innocent children
because he'd rather die than change
his rancid belief system
Report Emden August 8, 2014 10:10 PM BST
Hamas think they have won and Israel have said their military objectives have been achieved!
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com