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Eeternaloptimist
26 Mar 14 21:29
Joined:
Date Joined: 28 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 38,236 | Blogger: Eeternaloptimist's blog
According to polling by you gov reported in The Guardian:

The YouGov poll shows that 57% of respondents thinks Nigel Farage won the debate.
Pause Switch to Standard View Farage was the winner of the debate.
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Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:25 PM GMT
The minimum wage was attacked by the right as going to cost jobs.

Now right wingers want to see higher wages to keep out immigrants.

Before freedom of movement was there any unemployment? Of course plenty of it. It just riles some people that some immigrants are willing to get off their ar*e and work, unlike some at home.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:26 PM GMT
It's enough to make you weep. At any one time there are millions twiddling their thumbs or supping free beer because the welfare teat spews forth ample. Of course delivering pizza would be far too taxing for the poor lambs.

And immigration is to blame? Grow up.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:30 PM GMT
What else do you want to lay at freedom of movements door? The floods?
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 7:31 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 2:18PM, mickstick wrote:


The UK was deemed as having skill shortages in 2004 as I remember.Cleaners, fruit pickers, waiters and any other low classified jobs you can think of were done by immigrants in 2004.A growing economy needs servicing. Who would deliver your pizzas if it were not immigrants?


Here is a thought. I know its a bit out there but - have a program of controlled immigration to meet the particular needs an economy has. SurprisedSurprisedSurprisedSurprisedSurprised

Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 7:33 PM GMT
I thought I was clear about that Mick. It is a combination of people willing to come in and work hard and a rump of indiginous freeloaders taking the pi55. I don't blame immigrants and on balance don't buy into the coming here to claim our benefits argument. People come to better themselves and I don't blame them.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 7:37 PM GMT
Here is an example:

in the late 90s there was a large skill shortage in the IT sector. y2k and the internet was resulting in companies, both big and small, needing more staff with IT skills. There was no way our universities could produce the right amoung of qualified people in a short time to meet these needs.

The LABOUR government could have done

a. Give out work permits to people with the right IT skills to work in Britain. Many of them from India

b. Have uncontrolled immigration with India.

They choose A. Choosing B, would have solved the problem of an IT skill shortage. But would have caused many other problems.

MICKSTICK - I AM NOT AGAINST IMMIGRATION - I am against UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION from countires poorer than Britain.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:43 PM GMT
Indians were given the right to hold a UK passport from 1948.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 7:45 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 2:25PM, mickstick wrote:


The minimum wage was attacked by the right as going to cost jobs. Now right wingers want to see higher wages to keep out immigrants.Before freedom of movement was there any unemployment? Of course plenty of it. It just riles some people that some immigrants are willing to get off their ar*e and work, unlike some at home.


The people on the left want British working class to earn the minimum wage and seemingly no more.

If they claim they are just labeled as BIGOTS!

Remember Gordon Brown to Gillian Duff?! bigoted woman!

Report Helissio March 27, 2014 7:46 PM GMT
I mean: If they complain they are just labeled as BIGOTS!
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:48 PM GMT
The people on the left want British working class to earn the minimum wage and seemingly no more.

Remind me, how many Ls in bollox?
Report wildmanfromborneo March 27, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
Eeternaloptimist the crowd who are beginning to look at Yorkshire as their new homeland have come to better themselves but haven't come to work.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
Helissio,

I am afraid you have just bought into the Express, Telegraph view on immigration. And no matter what I say you'll always think the same.

So I will agree to disagree with your views.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 7:53 PM GMT
Wildman

Any chance of that answer? You know the TAKEOVER one.

Is it the Muslims or immigrants generally who are taking us over?
Report wildmanfromborneo March 27, 2014 7:59 PM GMT
You live in London and you don't know.

You have given away one of the finest cities in the world,you didnt even fire a shot in its defence,the barbarians can't believe their luck.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 7:59 PM GMT
MICKSTICK - you obviously dont understand the situation with EU in regards immigration at the moment,

at 2.46pm you stated:

Don't you need a job to come here from the EU? Or have a Student place?


Have you ever travelled to another EU country? When you arrived in France, do immigration ask if you coming for business or pleasure?

My advice would be to read up what being a member of the EU actually means before you start debating it. LoveLoveLoveLoveLove
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:00 PM GMT
Still no answer? What are you afraid of?

So what is it? Muslims or immigrants generally?
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
My advice would be to read up what being a member of the EU actually means before you start debating it.

Are you qualified to give advice. I asked a question, not allowed in your right wing world?

I was in Gran Canaria recently. At immigration I was asked the purpose of my visit. So I believe It is you that doesn't leave your bedsit often.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:05 PM GMT
Helissio,

Was it that I agreed to disagree with your view which made you angry? Is that not allowed in your controlledUK ?
Report A.H HUNTER esq. March 27, 2014 8:09 PM GMT
What a laugh Mick has suddenly discovered free speech Laugh.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:11 PM GMT
See Helissio

You get into bed with the likes of Adolf when you hold your views on immigration.

He's a Stormfront.org member. Or maybe just a member.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 8:12 PM GMT
Mickstick

What I dont get is why you cannot undertsand that any problems that uncontrolled immigration can solve - CONTROLLED immigration can solve without any of the problems that you get with the uncontrolled sort.

Since 2004 I have been to Cyprus, Spain, Hungary - at no time have I been asked for the purpose of my visit.

Anyone else want to share their experience?
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 8:13 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 3:11PM, mickstick wrote:


See HelissioYou get into bed with the likes of Adolf when you hold your views on immigration. He's a Stormfront.org member. Or maybe just a member.


Pretty sure Hitler was quite big on UNCONTROLLED german immigration into Poland, Russia, Ukraine, France, Belgium, Norway etc etc SurprisedSurprisedSurprised

Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 8:13 PM GMT
You can't have control over immigration and be a member of the EU.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 8:14 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 3:13PM, Eeternaloptimist wrote:


You can't have control over immigration and be a member of the EU.


Exactly - I agree. So thats why we should leave the EU>

Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:15 PM GMT
Helissio

I said I DO NOT AGREE WITH UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION. There you go in crayon, so you can understand.

But with a growing economy comes the need for low classified jobs. We can't only have Doctors.
Report A.H HUNTER esq. March 27, 2014 8:17 PM GMT
Yes you do .
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:18 PM GMT
Exactly - I agree. So thats why we should leave the EU>

Says a UKIP supporter, and I would not expect anything else. And UKIP will be in power when? No time soon.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 8:19 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 3:15PM, mickstick wrote:


HelissioI said I DO NOT AGREE WITH UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION. There you go in crayon, so you can understand.But with a growing economy comes the need for low classified jobs. We can't only have Doctors.


You do not agree with it, but you want Britain to be a member of the EU and have UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION with countries poorer than Britain? Strange position to have.

Britain should be able to meet the needs of a growing economy for these so called "low classfied jobs", especially when it has over 2 million unemployed.

If it still needs people to fill these "low classfied jobs" - it can implement a system of controlled immigration.

Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 8:27 PM GMT
It's not possible to reconcile such two different views Mick. You cannot have controlled immigration and be a member or the EU. So which is it to be for you?
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:43 PM GMT
Why? The immigration from the EU is written in stone, does not mean we cannot have a more rigid view for countries outside the EU. The world is bigger than just the EU.

For example:

Biggest recent immigrant numbers are from China, students mainly, a good thing.

Marriage loop holes closed could see a drastic cut in the numbers from Asia Africa and the Indian sub continent.

Entry and exit visas for those from elsewhere other than the EU would be useful.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:46 PM GMT
Obviously the wider view is not in UKIPS interest, they know the immigration issue is the only chance they have of convincing people that the UKs membership of the EU is a bad thing.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 8:49 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 3:46PM, mickstick wrote:


Obviously the wider view is not in UKIPS interest, they know the immigration issue is the only chance they have of convincing people that the UKs membership of the EU is a bad thing.


There winners and losers from EU membership

What do you think the British working class gain from the uncontrolled immigration that EU membership brings?

Report mickstick March 27, 2014 8:55 PM GMT
What do you mean by working class?

Surely everybody who works for a living is working class. Plenty of those are getting served their coffees by immigrants.

Hope this helps.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 9:03 PM GMT
Very helpful. It tells us that you dont want to answer the question. Or you cant answer it.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:05 PM GMT
What do you mean by working class?

Can't answer the question. Or do you have that quaint view that you have to be a blue collar worker to be working class. Of course that would'nt fit your agenda would it?
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:11 PM GMT
Bricklayers and their labourers buy houses today. 40 years ago that would have been a rarity. Immigration has had its role in that growth of wealth. Roman Abramovitch is an immigrant, and look at the wages he pays.

Things change get over it, Pathe news never told the whole story.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 9:13 PM GMT
Again you just dont want  to answer the simple question.

I am prepared to say that there many people who gain from EU membership and the uncontrolled immigration from countries poorer than Britain. See my post at 4.41pm

On the other hand, you will do anything you can not to admit, that many people in Britain are at a disadvantage due to EU membership and the uncontrolled immigration from countries poorer than Britain.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 9:14 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 4:11PM, mickstick wrote:


Bricklayers and their labourers buy houses today. 40 years ago that would have been a rarity. Immigration has had its role in that growth of wealth. Roman Abramovitch is an immigrant, and look at the wages he pays.Things change get over it, Pathe news never told the whole story.


You are going off in a tangent. Roman Abramovitch came to this country as an immigrant from another EU country? LOL ExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcitedExcited

Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 9:16 PM GMT
Mick

Your argument seems somewhat discriminatory and I remember that point being made when there was a young persons debate on TV a couple of years ago but yes in theory you can put the kibbosh on non EU nationals. Of course we shouldn't be doing that either. We should have a necessary skills required based immigration system from wherever in the world we can get the best people.

The point is that allowing, never mind setting in stone, unfettered access to a potential half billion people onto an island struggling to cope with an existing 60 million will be problematic for many of that 60 million. It's good news for government because it swells the population and thus GDP creating the illusion of prosperity and as you concede it is also good for employers who can pay peanuts and get grafters.

What's in it for the indiginous unskilled poor who want to but cannot get a job?
Report moisok March 27, 2014 9:17 PM GMT
each incomer taking a job is one less opportunity for our black, asian and white young people.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:20 PM GMT
I'll leave you two to celebrate that Farage 'beat' ( childish term in this instance considering the real meaning of the term ) and hope that in the GE your party gets more than it did last time singing the same song.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
Someone needs to remind N Farage that since Jan 1st 2014 tens of thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians have NOT turned up here as he promised they would. He has Blackburn down at Dover keeping a constant watch on the ferries to keep him up to date.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:26 PM GMT
You are going off in a tangent. Roman Abramovitch came to this country as an immigrant from another EU country?

Here come the lies and the twisting of facts. DID I SAY HE CAME FROM THE EU? No, but you are saying I did. Tut Tut, by typical of UKIPers I have encountered on this forum over the years. Blackburn1 being the most prolific.
Report wildmanfromborneo March 27, 2014 9:27 PM GMT
He is looking in the wrong place,they have made their way to Yorkshire.

You presumably are looking after the ATM experts as they are all in London.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 9:28 PM GMT
It was a straight up match up Mick and immediately afterwards the metropolitan media went into overdrive about how decisively Clegg had put Farage in his place. If it irks you that only 35% of those polled agreed with them that's not my problem but it does seem to be yours.

You need to understand your brief a little better next time.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:32 PM GMT
It doesn't irk me in the slightest. Two non entities, with no chance of power squabbling on the radio. Why should I be vexed in any way? Your trying to put words in my mouth or misinterpreting me . So as I have said no way irked.

Didn't know I had a brief. Only had, just as you do, an opinion. Sorry if that is not allowed. We'll agree to disagree.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 9:42 PM GMT

Mar 27, 2014 -- 4:26PM, mickstick wrote:


You are going off in a tangent. Roman Abramovitch came to this country as an immigrant from another EU country?Here come the lies and the twisting of facts. DID I SAY HE CAME FROM THE EU? No, but you are saying I did. Tut Tut, by typical of UKIPers I have encountered on this forum over the years. Blackburn1 being the most prolific.


You did not read the full sentence!

I said you are going off in a tangent by bring in Roman Abramovitch as an example. Someone who is not a EU citizen.

Why bring a non EU citizen into this discussion?

Report moisok March 27, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
each incomer taking a job is one less opportunity for our black, asian and white young people.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 9:49 PM GMT
You did not read the full sentence!

Yes I did.

You are going off in a tangent. Roman Abramovitch came to this country as an immigrant from another EU countr?

That's two sentences ( see the full stop after tangent?)

I never said Mr Abramovitch came from the EU YOU DID I just stated he was an immigrant who paid good wages. No tangent, I thought it humorous you talking of immigrants low wages etc.

Now I no longer wish to engage with you on this subject. I said too long ago you are intransigent in your views ( as perhaps am I) so I agree to disagree.

Please do not pose me any more questions as a refusal to answer often offends.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 9:53 PM GMT
I will let the audience on the betfair forum decide.

Do we want old man MICKSTICK, with his finger on the button? CryCryCryCry
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 10:03 PM GMT
Is the Betfair forum audience that important to you? How sad.

I know my views are in the minority on here. Doesn't irk me in the slightest.

There are more than the dozen souls that you will find on here, in the big wide world.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 10:21 PM GMT
Helissio.

Are you waiting for the Betfair forum to crown you 'King'?

Sad feck.
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 10:23 PM GMT
You obviously not a big fan of the Simpsons ExcitedExcitedExcited
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 10:25 PM GMT
Ray Patterson: Sorry I'm late, everyone. [accusingly to Homer]: Somebody tampered with my brakes.
    Homer: Well then you should've been early.
    Chief Wiggum: Hey, he got you there, Ray.
    Ray Patterson: Oh, come on, people. This man has promised round-the-clock trash pickup, that's impossible.
    Homer: Not if we hire more men, and my men'll do all your messy jobs. They'll wash your car, scrub your shower, air out your stinkables!
    Ray Patterson: I can't believe what I'm hearing.
    Homer: Well you better turn up your hearing aid, Pops!
    Ray Patterson: Pops? I'm only two years older than you.
    Homer: Do we want Old Man Patterson here with his finger on the button?
    Ray Patterson: What button?! What the hell are you talking about?
    Homer: [mocking] "W-w-w-what button? Where am I? Who took my false teeth?!"
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 10:26 PM GMT
Of Piccadilly? One of the best clothes stores in London, sadly now gone. Not the fault of any immigrants either, lack of them maybe.

I bought my first Chester Barrie suit there.
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 10:29 PM GMT
Your quoting an American Cartoon script to me? Verbatim. American TV has done more to ruin this country than immigrants.

You expect me to take you seriously?
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 10:30 PM GMT
Dont have a cow man. CoolCoolCool
Report mickstick March 27, 2014 10:31 PM GMT
Helissio

Meet Menelaus.

I think he may be able to help you.

Bye now.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 10:33 PM GMT
One of life's great popular culturally iconic shows which has completely past me by. Whenever I briefly see The Simpsons it seems to contain more wit than your average American show and then I catch another glimpse a few months down the line. Now Tom And Jerry. Laugh

Fred Quimby of course. Wink
Report Helissio March 27, 2014 10:38 PM GMT
Is he named after mayor Quimby ?
Report Eeternaloptimist March 27, 2014 10:58 PM GMT
Would I be right in thinking that is another Simpsons reference? If so I suspect your mayor may have been named after the great man.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 11:02 AM GMT
Immigration has got to be the dirtiest trick of all time that's been played on the working classes.
And it has had the blessing of the Labour party at every stage.

Farage can't lose any debate based on immigration or the EU as far as the general public is concerned.
They've already made up their minds.
They want an end to unlimited immigration, and they can't be talked out of it.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 11:37 AM GMT
Immigration has been a growth strategy that has benefited all classes.

ROFLMAO.

What kind of a dope hasn't even got the sense to believe his own eyes?

Just to let you know. I've got a rubber stamp here that I've borrowed from a former poster.

It says on it - ''Too thick to argue with.''

I'll stamp it on ever post you make from now on.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 11:48 AM GMT
Although Menelaus in your case.

Perhaps the stamp should read ''Too sick to argue with.''
Report wildmanfromborneo March 28, 2014 12:02 PM GMT
The problem is Menelaus sees the immigrant as his next waiter,plumber,shop assistant  or dog walker but that's not how the immigrant sees himself,especially the Muslim ones.

He is arriving in a country that has lost its collective will,governed by a liberal elite that despise its culture and its history.

This immigrant sees that this country with its historic wealth and tradition will soon be his.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 12:13 PM GMT
Sadly the problem is more fundamental than that. He's a head banger crippled by the need to abuse people. Yesterday we had the kind of back and forth engaging debate we used to engage in with people agreeing to disagree but no requirement to seek to humiliate the other person. Today Melly is back.
Report wildmanfromborneo March 28, 2014 12:17 PM GMT
He is not able to debate,is incapable of independant thought.

He puts up some study as an argument and is then stuck,the ideas are not his so he can't debate so all you get is this constant elitist name calling.

He can't think on his feet so has to resort to insults.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 12:20 PM GMT
Very true. I told him something similar on tradefair a couple of years ago. Strangely it was at that point I became a lowlife, POS, etc etc.

He's the kind of man who loses everything but insists he was fundamentally right and he has the charts to prove it.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 1:35 PM GMT
Melly

You say that the evidence you have supplied relating to immigration is credible but you simply refuse to engage on the crucial aspect which you have frothed at the mouth at when it suits you which is peak oil and dwindling resources. Did any of those studies proclaiming the wonders of immigration take this into consideration when assessing the likely future impact of swamping the country with immigrants?
Report Pounf March 28, 2014 1:52 PM GMT
Can somebody explain to me how thousands of immigrants coming in is helping the poor of this country ? Its madness. More competition for jobs , schools , housing, welfare, health services....how does that help those at the bottom of the barrel who are suffering now. The rough areas of towns are getting rougher, but those liberals who love it probably live nowhere near it.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 2:03 PM GMT
It must tire you out jumping on those straw men Mad Lad.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 2:04 PM GMT
Nobody can explain that pounf.
They never try to because they can't. 

Certainly not Menelaus/Nothernlad5. Who it has been suggested is the same poster.

Immigration is designed to bring down the wages of workers and make the poor even poorer.
It been said hundreds of times on here.
Immigration is the dirtiest trick that's ever been played on the working classes.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 2:07 PM GMT
Just to clarify that Crips it isn't immigration that is the problem per se. It is the lunacy of mass and unconteooled immigration of the kinds we witnessed over decades and which seems to accelerate.
Report northernlad5 March 28, 2014 2:11 PM GMT
Answer the charge that your OP deliberately omitted the fact that with only 1000 people surveyed the poll was totally meaningless.

Why attempt to distort the fact that UKip are nothing more than a minority protest party.

And unless your mentally deficient know full well they will play no part in future government.

Admit the truth for once!
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 2:18 PM GMT
Deputy leaders of governments don't debate in public with leaders of minority protest parties.

Clegg has given UKIP new credibility.
Report wildmanfromborneo March 28, 2014 2:29 PM GMT
NorthernLads expertise seems to be a neat line in juvenile lewd analogies.

A poll is just a poll.
Most accept that Farage is a good debater but he did falter on a point that Northernlad probably agrees with him.

Who did Northernlad think won the debate and why ?
Report northernlad5 March 28, 2014 2:43 PM GMT
I watched about two minutes of the drivel from Farage, and the truth from Clegg, as I suspect most non racist, non Lib/Dems did.

Farage summed up his and UKip's position in Jan-

"I don't mind Britain becoming a poorer country to stop unlimited immigration."

Unfortunately for you lot the rest of us do mind. The most recent poll on EU membership shows an increase in the 'stay in' vote. YouGov - Stay In 42% Come out 36%. No need for big business to launch its campaign just yet.
Report wildmanfromborneo March 28, 2014 3:07 PM GMT
" no need for big business to launch its campaign just yet "

That statement says it all, the EU suits big business,it doesn't suit the ordinary citizen,its not unlike immigration suits big business and the liberal elite as they reap the benefits but not the ordinary citizen,its their schools that are wrecked,their A and E that are overcrowded,their hospital beds that are taken,their neighbourhoods taken over.

The Labour Party won't speak for the ordinary people as they despise them,the Labour Party has virtually no working class MPs ( Dennis Skinner apart ) is dominated by the legal profession and career politicians.They all seem to be millionaires from Harriet Harman through to Ed Miliband who only care for bohemian bourgeois middle class causes.
Report northernlad5 March 28, 2014 3:19 PM GMT
As even Farage admits-

Immigration is a NET FISCAL POSITIVE!

Though I think someone else on this forum has already mentioned that!
Report northernlad5 March 28, 2014 3:37 PM GMT
You were saying Larry-

"Farage was the winner of the debate."

And I'm quite clearly the winner of this one...ha ha ha, he he he!

Seems I've had another field day & quite enjoying them.
Are there no right wing political heavy weights on this forum? Just munchkins & pygmies?

O well there you go!
Report northernlad5 March 28, 2014 3:39 PM GMT
I'm such an unsporting t***, spoiling yet another right wing party!

Grin
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 3:54 PM GMT
I'm such an unsporting t***,

No you're not Northy. You're just a t***.


Are you Menelaus by the way Northy?

The similarity in styles seems compelling.
Report Helissio March 28, 2014 4:06 PM GMT

Mar 28, 2014 -- 10:37AM, northernlad5 wrote:


You were saying Larry-"Farage was the winner of the debate."And I'm quite clearly the winner of this one...ha ha ha, he he he!Seems I've had another field day & quite enjoying them.Are there no right wing political heavy weights on this forum? Just munchkins & pygmies?O well there you go!


Having uncontrolled immigration from countries poorer than Britain means that people in those countries can come to Britain and compete for a range of jobs, including skilled and unskilled work.

So there are winners and losers from this.

Winners - employers. Whether you are a big multi national company or a small business like a cafe. In terms of human resources - YOU HAVE NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD!

So if there are more people competing for these jobs - that pushes wages down towards the minimum wage. And people wonder why there is so little wage growth.

Losers - employees. They have to compete with many more people and wages on offer are lower.

We live in a capitalist country with a welfare state.

Business (whether small or big) are not only supposed to compete with each other for employees. They are also supposed to compete with the welfare state. By having UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION with countries poorer than Britain. We have removed the need for them to offer better wages than the welfare state offers in many cases.

Report northernlad5 March 28, 2014 4:13 PM GMT
Helisio how many times are you going to repeat- "countries poorer than Britain"?

Even considered our emigrants that go to COUNTRIES RICHER THAN BRITAIN?

Two sides to every story!

Now I have a successful business to run.

Try in the intervening hours to come up with an argument that will actually stand up to scrutiny!
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 4:15 PM GMT
Same style Northy? 

I was referring to the same little mad outbursts that you share with him when you lose control.
It's quite noticeable.


Keep scrapping Crippin, keep scraping, we've got you,


''we've got you'' Are you working as a team then?
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 4:19 PM GMT
Northy,
I see you haven't denied being Menelaus. 

So which one is it. Are you same person, or are you working as a team?

Have you only got one computer between you?
Report Ivor March 28, 2014 4:33 PM GMT
It's legal from this weekend.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 4:41 PM GMT
Now I have a successful business to run.

As one signs out the other signs in.

Things like that are worth more than a thousand words from a madman.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 4:43 PM GMT
It looks like he has only got one computer.
Report Dr Crippen March 28, 2014 4:54 PM GMT
Where's Northy gone by the way?
Report Helissio March 28, 2014 6:11 PM GMT

Mar 28, 2014 -- 11:13AM, northernlad5 wrote:


Helisio how many times are you going to repeat- "countries poorer than Britain"?Even considered our emigrants that go to COUNTRIES RICHER THAN BRITAIN?Two sides to every story!Now I have a successful business to run.Try in the intervening hours to come up with an argument that will actually stand up to scrutiny!


You side stepping the issue. Britain should look after its borders, and not have uncontrolled immigration with countries poorer than it.

Please remind which countries have uncontrolled immigration with Britain and are significanly richer than Britain?


If these countries choose to have uncontrolled immigration with Britain that is their choice. Britain should not choose to have uncontrolled immigration with countries poorer than Britain.

Northernlad5 - Do you believe Britain should have uncontrolled immigration with countries significantly poorer?

Report Ivor March 28, 2014 6:20 PM GMT
There should be ONE MAN on the immmigration desk and ALL potentials have to appear before him.
(I would reluctantly agree to a deputy to cover absenteesim and holidays).
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 8:21 PM GMT
I'm not sure what you are seeking to prove with your assertion about polls Mad Lad. Was the you gov poll any different from other polls taken after such issues? It provided an immediate snapshot of how the people interviewed saw the issue and was considered credible enough to be reported on in The Guardian. I cited it specifically because of the attempts by the media to spin it falsely as a victory for Clegg when clearly that wasn't the case.

As for your assertion that Clegg was the one telling the truth that illustrates just how deranged you are. He was caught in a clear and obvious lie during this issue and let's not even begin to open the can of worms of tuition fees.
Report treetop March 28, 2014 8:27 PM GMT
By having UNCONTROLLED IMMIGRATION with countries poorer than Britain. We have removed the need for them to offer better wages than the welfare state offers in many cases.

This comment alone should make any Labour voter look closely at themselves and wonder how much the Labour party sought to undermine the union position negotiating for the lower paid and the working class of our society. Union leaders bought into all that tripe and as I recall only Bob Crow publically expressed concern about the effect of mass immigration on the low paid.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 28, 2014 8:54 PM GMT
Unluckily for you Melly I have a sturdy hammer and plenty of nails to smash into your coffin so run all you like sucker because I'll hunt you down and continue to fold you in half. I don't expect an answer fron you. Really. You're shafted again. We seem long past the point of covering yourself in bombast and declaring it as the sweet scent of victory. I do expect toe curling embarrassment and more hiding. In fact that's just what I'm stripping you of along with your mind. So don't answer. Your weakness is writ large:

You say that the evidence you have supplied relating to immigration is credible but you simply refuse to engage on the crucial aspect which you have frothed at the mouth at when it suits you which is peak oil and dwindling resources. Did any of those studies proclaiming the wonders of immigration take this into consideration when assessing the likely future impact of swamping the country with immigrants?
Report moisok March 28, 2014 11:57 PM GMT
each incomer taking a job is one less opportunity for our black, asian and white young people.
Report susie March 29, 2014 11:35 AM GMT
agreed moisok.

The second generation immigrants suffer as much or worse through unemployment, outrageous rents, cost of housing, University Fees etc.
Report Eeternaloptimist March 29, 2014 3:57 PM GMT
Speak up Melly. It's only a couple of days ago you were accusing someone of not wishing to debate the issues and there is a massive oil covered elephant in the room shiitting all over you.
Report Pounf March 29, 2014 10:48 PM GMT
Still waiting for someone to explain to me how thousands of immigrants coming in helps the poor of this country.......
Report moisok March 30, 2014 12:20 AM GMT
you won't get one coz they are so embarrassed - even labour have apologised
but until you cleanse the officials in so many places of influence it will not change
probable too late
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