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Eeternaloptimist
05 Jul 13 10:58
Joined:
Date Joined: 28 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 54,526 | Blogger: Eeternaloptimist's blog
Faced with the descent into madness under Allende and communism ruining millions of lives I argue that Chile was better off under Pinochet whose policies led to what has become a thriving economy instead of a basket case and who returned democracy to the country from a man who would have instituted a one party state and kept it.

Faced with a simple choice you go with the lesser of two evils.

Perhaps the pot chompers would like to say whether they would have preferred Allende?
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Report Eeternaloptimist July 7, 2013 1:57 PM BST
Obliterated? LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh Time seems to have further dulled your already faded senses. If you want to know what the right or most other sensible people thought of the arguments go back and have another look at the northern lad was vindicated thread. I put you in my pocket and you've been trying to jump out ever since you mug.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 7, 2013 1:58 PM BST
Seriously. Take a step outside of Melly world. Just one. It will be a long road but one day you will than me for it "professor". Laugh
Report freddiek July 7, 2013 2:04 PM BST
E.O becomes ever more delusional and demented with each passing day. Trapped behind his computer fighting anonymous battles on here!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 7, 2013 2:19 PM BST
Should I take a leaf out of Melly's book now and accuse you of being one of his aliases? You mean that kind of demented? Laugh
Report cryoftruth July 8, 2013 12:42 PM BST
Well since Allende was elected by his people and Pinochet was a fascist dictator who slaughtered his own people its a very very silly question.

Still I would imagine certain idiots will argue as they do that a right wing dictator who kills people for fun is far better in every way than the man who the USA conspired to murder.

Let me think for a second. Who is the proven serial liar and right wing extremist on this forum who would have argued for a nazi against a democrat?

That is a pretty easy question as Frediek so rightly observes.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 8, 2013 1:20 PM BST
Poor deranged. Still lying I see.
Report tobermory July 11, 2013 1:10 AM BST
Would prefer Allende myself , never killed or tortured anyone at all Scared

So being against murdering and torture, it seems an easy choice .
Report Menelaus July 11, 2013 9:10 AM BST
.....not so easy for some on here.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 11, 2013 1:42 PM BST
tobermory

That's your prerogative. My prerogative is to point out that the history of communism is littered with examples of far bigger monsters than Pinochet and I feel confident to assert that when the beans ran out the scapegoating would have begun with Allende as well.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 11, 2013 1:45 PM BST
By the way Melly I've pointed out to you before that Pinochet was an authoritarian dictator but not a fascist. I would have thought that with all that academic experience at the LSE or SBS you would have understood that.

I note also you've gone quiet about the parliamentary condemnation of Allende's trampling over democracy.
Report Menelaus July 11, 2013 1:56 PM BST
Give it you clueless mug, to keep moving the goalposts virtually everyday on here makes you look even more pathetic.

It's not about woudda, coudda, shoudda, it's about what in fact DID TAKE PLACE. Pinochet tortured and murdered. Allende didn't. End of discussion.

And stop with the intellectual dishonesty, no one is buying it. No one ever said (at least not me) that there weren't communist tyrants who did worse (there were fascists who did worse than Pinochet too) but to excuse or justify Pinochet's crimes as "on balance he was good for his country" and "there were bigger monsters" is the stuff of dishonest, wiggling on the line, totally lost, totally turned over fascist idiots.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 11, 2013 3:58 PM BST
Chile still enjoys the benefits of Pinochet's economic reforms. That's millions now and in the future. From hollowed out husk under Allende to the sunny uplands now.  So on balance he was good for his country. I don't need to move anything but your shiit out of the way when I want to post.

I'm flattered that you keep coming back for more though. Or is it the hooks keeping you in place? Laugh
Report Menelaus July 11, 2013 4:29 PM BST
Pinochet didn't reform sh1t. So stop repeating your wilful ignorance and your blatant lies because you look pathetic trying to convince. All of that was clearly demonstrated on this and a previous thread that you just pretend don't exist.

Pinochet enriched his close circle of friends, mainly moneyed interests who supported his reign of terror, and impoverished the rest of Chilean society. Along with that came higher unemployment, lower wages, no healthcare unless you could afford it, more Chileans living in substandard housing and in extreme poverty, poverty related diseases reaching an epidemic level and an appalling infant mortality rate among Chile's poor, which by the time Pinochet gave up power, amounted to 50pc of Chile's population.

Allende had nothing to do with Chile's economy tanking. The CIA orchestrated all that. Allende however had everything to do with nationalizing key industries (especially mining) which TODAY form the basis of Chile's economic success, along with the ABANDONMENT of Pinochet's free-market crony capitalist policies and a return to government intervention.

I can go on forever making you eat your own sh1t on here but everyone, at least everyone who can fog a mirror, is tired of it.

You are a lying, unethical, racist, POS fascist loving scum. And that my sick friend is a hell of a lot worse than being called a spazhagger.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 11, 2013 7:06 PM BST
Forget the lies. I claim huse in Melly bingo. Fogging a mirror. Laugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 11, 2013 7:08 PM BST
And seeing as Pinochet wasn't a fascist you fell at the very first hurdle but you keep slinging those mindless insults. As long as you amuse me you'll stay off that naughty step. Wink
Report Menelaus July 11, 2013 8:06 PM BST
Well, since I did make it known that all indications are that you suffer from chronic psychosis, it doesn't surprise me that you consider getting beat up.....amusement.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 11, 2013 8:48 PM BST
Was that diagnosis made with the benefit of your special training with James Bond? LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report treetop July 11, 2013 11:18 PM BST
Another threasd to avoid since it is dominated by the pyschotic and the baiter.
Report tobermory July 12, 2013 12:46 AM BST

Jul 11, 2013 -- 7:42AM, Eeternaloptimist wrote:


tobermoryThat's your prerogative. My prerogative is to point out that the history of communism is littered with examples of far bigger monsters than Pinochet and I feel confident to assert that when the beans ran out the scapegoating would have begun with Allende as well.


Yes, it's true that Communism produced dreadful dictators, several worse than Pinochet, but any dictator (Left or Right) will usually establish the rule of force very rapidly after taking power.Allende had been in office for 3 years; he was governing lawfully as far as i can tell .The dispute with Parliament was a constitutional crisis which could be argued either way, he never used force other than against the failed coup that preceded the successful one (as any elected government would be justified in doing ) .I can't see it as being credible that he was going to turn into Stalin at some point.....It may be that the Pinochet economic policies were better in the long term but to me that is a minor point .I don't support Socialism at all but i think the most important and essential thing is being able to freely criticize the powers that be. I would rather have Harriet Harman as PM and be able to openly laugh at her and vote her out at the next election than have a Government that had the same view as me on economics,crime,immigration etc but that i would never be able to criticize without fear of being 'disappeared' .

Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2013 10:35 AM BST
I agree with some parts of that. It is often that dictators arise in he way that you argue. Violent overthrow leading to repression as with the soviets and indeed Pinochet. However, there are numerous examples from history where the ballot box conveys some legitimacy on a party which then gradually exerts more and more sway the eventual detriment of the country. Examples such as the Nazis and Mugabe spring to mind. The allegations made by parliament bring to mind this type of curtailment creep. Particularly:

It has grievously attacked freedom of speech, applying all manner of economic pressure against those media organizations that are not unconditional supporters of the government, illegally closing newspapers and radio networks; imposing illegal shackles on the latter; unconstitutionally jailing opposition journalists; resorting to cunning maneuvers to acquire a monopoly on newsprint; and openly violating the legal mandates to which the National Television Network is subject by handing over the post of executive director to a public official not named by the Senate, as is required by law, and by turning the network into an instrument for partisan propaganda and defamation of political adversaries;

c) It has violated the principle of university autonomy and the constitutionally recognized right of universities to establish and maintain television networks, by encouraging the takeover of the University of Chile’s Channel 9, by assaulting that university’s new Channel 6 through violence and illegal detentions, and by obstructing the expansion to the provinces of the channel owned by Catholic University of Chile;

d) It has obstructed, impeded, and sometimes violently suppressed citizens who do not favor the regime in the exercise of their right to freedom of association. Meanwhile, it has constantly allowed groups—frequently armed—to gather and take over streets and highways, in disregard of pertinent regulation, in order to intimidate the populace;

e) It has attacked educational freedom by illegally and surreptitiously implementing the so-called Decree of the Democratization of Learning, an educational plan whose goal is Marxist indoctrination;

f) It has systematically violated the constitutional guarantee of property rights by allowing and supporting more than 1,500 illegal "takings" of farms, and by encouraging the "taking" of hundreds of industrial and commercial establishments in order to later seize them or illegally place them in receivership and thereby, through looting, establish state control over the economy; this has been one of the determining causes of the unprecedented decline in production, the scarcity of goods, the black market and suffocating rise in the cost of living, the bankruptcy of the national treasury, and generally of the economic crisis that is sweeping the country and threatening basic household welfare, and very seriously compromising national security;

g) It has made frequent politically motivated and illegal arrests, in addition to those already mentioned of journalists, and it has tolerated the whipping and torture of the victims;

h) It has ignored the rights of workers and their unions, subjecting them, as in the cases of El Teniente [one of the largest copper mines] and the transportation union, to illegal means of repression;

i) It has broken its commitment to make amends to workers who have been unjustly persecuted, such as those from Sumar, Helvetia, Banco Central, El Teniente and Chuquicamata; it has followed an arbitrary policy in the turning over of state-owned farms to peasants, expressly contravening the Agrarian Reform Law; it has denied workers meaningful participation, as guaranteed them by the Constitution; it has given rise to the end to union freedom by setting up parallel political organizations of workers.

j) It has gravely breached the constitutional guarantee to freely leave the country, establishing requirements to do so not covered by any law.

11. That it powerfully contributes to the breakdown of the Rule of Law by providing government protection and encouragement of the creation and maintenance of a number of organizations which are subversive [to the constitutional order] in the exercise of authority granted to them by neither the Constitution nor the laws of the land, in open violation of article 10, number 16 of the Constitution. These include community commandos, peasant councils, vigilance committees, the ****, etc.; all designed to create a so-called "popular authority" with the goal of replacing legitimately elected authority and establishing the foundation of a totalitarian dictatorship. These facts have been publicly acknowledged by the President of the Republic in his last State of the Nation address and by all government media and strategists;

12. That especially serious is the breakdown of the Rule of Law by means of the creation and development of government-protected armed groups which, in addition to threatening citizens’ security and rights as well as domestic peace, are headed towards a confrontation with the Armed Forces. Just as serious is that the police are prevented from carrying out their most important responsibilities when dealing with criminal riots perpetrated by violent groups devoted to the government. Given the extreme gravity, one cannot be silent before the public and notorious attempts to use the Armed and Police Forces for partisan ends, destroy their institutional hierarchy, and politically infiltrate their ranks;


Obviously as long as the veneer of democratic legitimacy is inferred there is no need to suppress the mass of the populace. Indeed if you are suppressing minority groups like the Nazis did you may even be able to maintain widespread support. What is difficult to maintain is an argument that democracy and the necessary freedoms for all which flow from that is maintained.
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:48 AM BST
More lies.

Cut and paste some more sh1t that confirms your bias, a couple of more million posts repeating lies and we'll all be convinced.
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:55 AM BST
Eeternaloptimist 09 Jul 13 22:44 
..... Firstly Allende killed himself.



Another lie, or epic stupidity.

You need to explain on here how someone commits suicide by shooting himself in the eye......TWICE !!!!
Report bazzar July 12, 2013 11:46 AM BST
HE WAS KILEED IN HIS PREMIERSHIP HOME BY C.I.A LEAD AIRFORCE WHO BACKED PINOCHET AS ALLENDE WOULD NOT KOW TOW TO THE DAMNED YANKS.
You profess to be intelligent so why do you overlook the facts, SPHINCTER?
Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2013 8:53 PM BST
Salvador Allende, President of Chile, died during the Chilean coup of 1973 by the Chilean Army Commander-in-Chief Augusto Pinochet. Although he reportedly committed suicide shortly after giving a radio speech to the Chilean people, there has been great controversy regarding the circumstances of his death. Allende supporters have always dismissed the military junta's version of events because they believe he was assassinated. Allende's family stands by the official version of events, in which he committed suicide.[1]

In May 2011 Allende's remains were exhumed and analyzed by a team of international experts, which concluded that the former president had shot himself with a rifle.[1][2] In December 2011 the judge in charge of the investigation affirmed the findings and ruled Allende's death a suicide.[3] On 11 September 2012, 39 years to the day after his death, an appeals court unanimously upheld the previous ruling, officially closing the case.[4]
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 9:39 PM BST
More wiki cut & paste brainless bullsh1t from you, just looking to confirm your bias and the lies you believe in.  Not a morsel of critical thinking anywhere to be found.

First of all, it's hilarious how you think that a murderous junta regime, who proceeded to torture and kill thousands, roamed the country spreading death and destruction with the Caravan of Death, in the middle of a full out assault on La Moneda, including air force bombing, would hesitate to kill Allende, or perhaps you believe Allende just beat them to it.

Chile TO THIS DAY has not imprisoned those responsible for the torture and death of the Briton Father Michael Woodward, despite the massive evidence of torture against the accused, including their own confessions. I put an entire thread up on but it just didn't suit your fascist loving bias to notice, even though the innocent life lost in that case was British.

The Chilean justice system, in cases that have come up before it, TO THIS DAY does not consider the attack on La Moneda a crime. That in itself presents a problem in prosecuting those responsible. Also, files, correspondence, communiques, orders and directives of the Pinochet regime and also testimony by witnesses gathered immediately after Pinochet stepped down are still TO THIS DAY considered classified and placed under lock and seal for 50 years, and thus unavailable for any investigations or legal proceedings.

So "official" investigations coming out of Chile disguised as investigations by "international experts" that you so brainlessly but proudly cut & paste on here, long after key witnesses have either disappeared or died, long after 1990 when an exhumation was intentionally botched producing "postmortem fractures" making it impossible to come to a definitive conclusion beyond that point, but now simply trying to re-write history and bring closure to the dark period of Pinochet's Chile, don't impress me. Truly independent investigations do.

If you ever get tired of fisting your own a$$, spend some time researching and reading some John Dinges. At the time, an investigative journalist who stayed in Chile during the Pinochet years despite placing himself in grave danger, and now professor of journalism at Columbia University and author of "The Condor Years: How Pinochet and his allies brought terrorism to three continents". Two gunshots heard by witnesses, two shells discovered at the scene, two bullet wounds in the skull, one dead man. The original autopsy report referred to two bullet exit wounds. Dr. Luis Ravanal, a doctor and a forensic expert, even concludes that the two shots were fired from different weapons. Everything else is a cover-up.

None of this matters anyways, because under the current Chilean president, billionaire businessman Sebastian Pinera, it would be impossible to get to the person who ordered the murder. It would be impossible to prosecute. Under Pinera, the assessment of the reign of General Augusto Pinochet as a dictatorship disappeared from the textbooks. Now Chilean children are taught that from 1973 to 1990 in Chile there was simply a "military regime", nothing more, nothing more sinister, not a word about torture, not a word murder, not a word about the Caravan of Death. History deleted and revised. Chile is not trying to honestly deal with it's ugly Pinochet reign of terror past, it's trying to revise history and bury it.

And a dumbed down fascist loving scum like bought it.






You missed this part in your cut & paste piece:

But for Dr. Luis Ravanal, a forensic doctor who concluded in 2008 that the gunshots were most likely fired by two different weapons, the latest autopsy “did not reveal anything different than was already known.”

He contended that the forensic team had failed to “resolve fundamental doubts” by not having recovered a bone fragment in the back of the skull that had formed what appeared in the original autopsy report to be a second exit wound, he said. Dr. Ravanal also said the latest autopsy had confirmed his fears that a 1990 exhumation had been botched and produced “postmortem fractures” in Mr. Allende’s remains, which he said made it difficult to come to a definitive conclusion about his death.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2013 9:55 PM BST
There's always a conspiracy theory disputing what the rest of the world concluded long ago and people willing to propagate the conspiracy. You are only being that conspiracy mug because it suits your argument. Even you aren't that stupid. It would be pitiful if it wasn't so funny.

Would it convince you if I cited the exhumation, judges verdict and court of appeal verdict from somewhere else? I suspect not. Neither would it convince you if I posted a video of Allende shouting, "Pinochet can suck my balls if he thinks he's taking me alive as he blew his head off."

I'll just point out that your Ravanelli man gave his view in 2008. The exhumation and examination of Allende's body happened in 2011 and a view give by a team of international experts.

So who do you believe? Laugh
Report cryoftruth July 12, 2013 10:00 PM BST
Its really funny. Since blocking eeternaliar, just through the posts of posters you can see he is still lying. I wonder if he ever gets tired of being wrong and telling bare faced lies?

Semes not.
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:07 PM BST
No, no, no, you haven't taken your fist out of your arse yet. Laugh

BEYOND 1990, when they botched the exhumation, it was rendered IMPOSSIBLE to reach any definitive conclusions.

Dinges, an investigative journalist who was on the ground in Chile during the coup, and investigated the Allende death, reports that two gunshots were heard by witnesses, two shells were discovered at the scene, and two bullet wounds in the skull is what the original autopsy report said. Dr Ravanal, the forensic doctor, not only came to the conclusion that two bullets went through Allende's skull, but that the also possibly came from different weapons.


So you can wiggle on the line all you like, but at the end of the day, you have nothing to hang your hat on other than what bullsh1t you read on wiki and chose to believe without a morsel of critical thinking because it fits your fascist loving bias.
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:08 PM BST
cryoftruth, unblock him. You'll enjoy how I have him wiggling on the line.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2013 10:21 PM BST
Seeing as you won't take Wiki have a bit of The Guardian

A scientific autopsy has confirmed that Chilean president Salvador Allende committed suicide during the 1973 coup that toppled his socialist government, court officials have announced.

British ballistics expert David Prayer said Allende died of two shots fired from an assault rifle that was held between his legs and under his chin and was set to fire automatically. The bullets blew out the top of his head and killed him instantly.

The forensics team's conclusion was unanimous. Spanish expert Francisco Etxeberria said: "We have absolutely no doubt" that Allende committed suicide.

Prayer said two bullets were fired, two casings recovered and there was no evidence a second person was involved in Allende's death. That ruled out theories that Allende, the first socialist in the Americas to come to power at the ballot box, was killed by the military as troops stormed the presidential palace during the coup led by General Augusto Pinochet.

Allende had said he wouldn't be taken alive even as Pinochet ordered an all-out attack on La Moneda. The palace was bombed by fighter jets and the air thick with tear gas and smoke as the building went up in flames. Allende had ordered his allies to surrender, but he stayed behind. What happened next has always been shrouded in mystery.

The deposed president's body was exhumed in May for its first authoritative autopsy as Chile's independent judiciary began a criminal investigation into the death of Allende and hundreds of other victims of the Pinochet dictatorship.


Oops. Laugh
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:28 PM BST
No, no, no, pay attention. Take your fist out. LaughLaughLaugh

You can keep re-posting the same story from a number of sources, unfortunately for you, it's the same story just re-printed in a different place.

And, no surprise, you continue to ignore whatever facts don't fit your story.

Take your fist out, and read again:

Dinges, an investigative journalist who was on the ground in Chile during the coup, and investigated the Allende death, reports that two gunshots were heard by witnesses, two shells were discovered at the scene, and two bullet wounds in the skull is what the original autopsy report said. Dr Ravanal, the forensic doctor, not only came to the conclusion that two bullets went through Allende's skull, but that the also possibly came from different weapons.

But for Dr. Luis Ravanal, a forensic doctor who concluded in 2008 that the gunshots were most likely fired by two different weapons, the latest autopsy “did not reveal anything different than was already known.”

He contended that the forensic team had failed to “resolve fundamental doubts” by not having recovered a bone fragment in the back of the skull that had formed what appeared in the original autopsy report to be a second exit wound, he said. Dr. Ravanal also said the latest autopsy had confirmed his fears that a 1990 exhumation had been botched and produced “postmortem fractures” in Mr. Allende’s remains, which he said made it difficult to come to a definitive conclusion about his death.

Report cryoftruth July 12, 2013 10:37 PM BST
My Greek friend

I found the continuous lies and deceit a bit depressing.

I can now remind everyone now and then that he is a stinking and repeated liar without having to "benefit" from reading more of his lies.

Its ideal actually.

You know his posts are full of spite extremism and hatred and of course lies, but you don't have to read the latest exhibition of his odious dishonesty.
Report cryoftruth July 12, 2013 10:40 PM BST
What is of course also very predictable is that an odious turd would choose a democratically elected man and argue that a murdering nazi is by far the better person.

I suspect eeternaliar really believes that Hitler was a far nicer person than Willy Brandt, and that there was not much wrong with General Samoza either.
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:41 PM BST
Greek friend????LaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Otherwise, well said.
Report Menelaus July 12, 2013 10:44 PM BST
Have a great evening cryoftruth, and enjoy the weekend.

I've read enough lies from this mug to last me a while, time to move on.

Cheers.
Report cryoftruth July 12, 2013 10:44 PM BST
And of course it goes without saying that only a really shocking and extreme liar would argue till he was blue in the face, and do it again and again, that Thatcher never ever supported Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge (which she certainly did)and that his favourite son, Enoch Powell never ever ever used the term "ginning pikaninny" innhis racist speech (which even his favourite source wikipaedia states he did as a matter of clear fact)
Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2013 10:48 PM BST
I can break you down all night. Don't thank me. It's what I do. It isn't a "story" as you allege. It is the results of a full exhaustive investigation by an international panel of experts following exhumation of the body:

Dinges, an investigative journalist who was on the ground in Chile during the coup, and investigated the Allende death, reports that two gunshots were heard by witnesses, two shells were discovered at the scene, and two bullet wounds in the skull is what the original autopsy report said.

Which was covered by this scientific autopsy of 2011:

British ballistics expert David Prayer said Allende died of two shots fired from an assault rifle that was held between his legs and under his chin and was set to fire automatically. The bullets blew out the top of his head and killed him instantly.

The forensics team's conclusion was unanimous. Spanish expert Francisco Etxeberria said: "We have absolutely no doubt" that Allende committed suicide.

Prayer said two bullets were fired, two casings recovered and there was no evidence a second person was involved in Allende's death.


And on:

Dr Ravanal, the forensic doctor, not only came to the conclusion that two bullets went through Allende's skull, but that the also possibly came from different weapons.

But for Dr. Luis Ravanal, a forensic doctor who concluded in 2008 that the gunshots were most likely fired by two different weapons, the latest autopsy “did not reveal anything different than was already known.”


So did Dr Ravanal conclude that they possibly came from different weapons or most likely came from different weapons? He seems as confused as you:

And on:

the latest autopsy “did not reveal anything different than was already known.”

He contended that the forensic team had failed to “resolve fundamental doubts” by not having recovered a bone fragment in the back of the skull that had formed what appeared in the original autopsy report to be a second exit wound, he said. Dr. Ravanal also said the latest autopsy had confirmed his fears that a 1990 exhumation had been botched and produced “postmortem fractures” in Mr. Allende’s remains, which he said made it difficult to come to a definitive conclusion about his death.


And yet this panel of international experts did come to a definitive conclusion after reviewing all the evidence. There was a second exit wound because Allende put it there.

So you have Ravanelli saying he couldn't arrive at a definitive conclusion.

And then you have this international panel of experts saying:

The forensics team's conclusion was unanimous. Spanish expert Francisco Etxeberria said: "We have absolutely no doubt" that Allende committed suicide.

So you are right about one thing. This international panel didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. We already knew that Allende having said he wouldn't be taken alive made good on his pledge. They merely confirmed it.

So I have only one more question for you Melly:




























































Who's yer daddy? LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 12, 2013 10:56 PM BST
I've read enough lies from this mug to last me a while, time to move on.

The final act of a desperate man. When does Melly ever "move on" when he thinks he has the upper hand? Never. He is Sisyphean in his determination to just once get the upper hand. And yet here he is wimpering enough Remember this Melly. If you are moving anywhere you will be doing so with a limp.

You won't forget this evening. EVER. This kind of branding stays with a man. Wink
Report A.H HUNTER esq. July 13, 2013 10:03 AM BST
So menelaus can now boast to having allegedly teamed up with Obama,Buffet,Andy McNab and cryofbollox .


  Obama,Buffet and McNab are all more believable than the wayward jock come SNP voter cryofbollox to be honest LaughLaugh.
Report Menelaus July 13, 2013 11:04 AM BST
It's time now to raise your schooling to a different level.

Allende was killed with two shots on the head from two different weapons. The ONLY one who conducted an investigation WHEN IT HAPPENED (instead of 40 years later) and Coroners and key witnesses where alive and memories fresh is John Dinges. You had no idea who he even was before I mentioned him, and you keep ignoring what he said now that you do. Because what he had to say doesn't fit your cut & paste fascist loving bias.

But let's just assume for a minute, for purposes of opening up your wide-shut eyes, that he did kill himself.

The presidential palace is under mortar attack and aerial bombardment, the second floor has collapsed and fire is spreading to the rest of the building and Pinochet's forces have overrun troops loyal to Allende defending the periphery and are now moving in. Allende kills himself. Did he commit suicide or was he murdered?

Were those jumping from the roof top of the WTC after 9/11 committing suicide, or where they murdered?

If you don't know the answer to that, and as an ex-barrister Laugh you should, look it up in the SCOTUS archives, they already ruled on that.

What???

You never thought of that???

Well, that's what I'm here for, to get you to dare look what's under the surface. Grin
Report Mister E July 13, 2013 11:17 AM BST
Chile - Allende or Pinochet



dont care.


Uganda - Milton Obote  or Idi Amin?

C and P some "facts" on that if you have got so much time on your hands.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 13, 2013 11:17 AM BST
Allende was killed with two shots on the head from two different weapons. The ONLY one who conducted an investigation WHEN IT HAPPENED (instead of 40 years later) and Coroners and key witnesses where alive and memories fresh is John Dinges. You had no idea who he even was before I mentioned him, and you keep ignoring what he said now that you do. Because what he had to say doesn't fit your cut & paste fascist loving bias.

But Dinges didn't say there were two different weapons did he? He said there were two gunshots heard. Lying will only mke the pain worse for you. I don't need to ignore him because his evidence is validated by the international panel who concluded unanimously that Allende killed himself having said he would but you are so desperate now that you are even prepared to discredit your star witness.

So that's Dinges accounted for. Have you got anything else because I bought a whole packet of these fireworks to blow your ar5se off. Laugh
Report Menelaus July 13, 2013 12:53 PM BST
Spinning, twisting, lying, and looking more pathetic.

You hang your hat on a story you found on an autopsy that was done almost 40 years AFTER the event, by authorities who TO THIS DAY refuse to release Pinochet files because they are classified, refuse to call the attack on the presidential palace a crime, refuse to prosecute and put torturers and murders in jail, and are deleting and revising history...........while ignoring that 20 years earlier a botched exhumation rendered any subsequent investigations useless. Not to bright on your part. Juts more fanatical devotion to a murderous fascist scum.

And meanwhile ONE MORE QUESTION goes answered and more hypocrisy to avoid an honest debate.

Were those jumping from the roof of the WTC committing suicide or were they murdered?
Report Eeternaloptimist July 13, 2013 2:01 PM BST
I hang my hat on the evidence, the reports, and Allende's own statement that they wouldn't take him alive. You hang your hat on what exactly?

If there was anything which went beyond clutching at straws you would just have done it. The WTC? Seriously? Is that what I've reduced you to? You don't want to talk about Dinges any more? You don't want to talk about Ravanelli? You can't face the overwhelming weight of evidence all pointing one way. You want to talk about the world trade centre? Laugh

Let me try again. The statement is quite clear and unequivocal:

The forensics team's conclusion was unanimous. Spanish expert Francisco Etxeberria said: "We have absolutely no doubt" that Allende committed suicide.

Now let's be clear here because you seen confused. This international panel wasn't the Chilean authorities (though goodness knows how Chile's current government would benefit from covering up for Pinochet). It was an international panel of respected experts. And they were unanimous in their findings.

Now they could have found that your allegations had merit that it wasn't possible to give a definitive view. Although you seem to want to continue to assert a definitive view yourself. They didn't they were clear and unambiguous. Quite a statement.

There are still people who assert that the earth is flat but I really can't see what you are trying to achieve here. I have my hands so tight around your tiny balls that they must be resembling cherries at this stage and yet still you squeal. Is it some experiment in self mind control? If so you'd have to one to begin with and certainly one which hadn't been trampled on by me.

When exactly was it that you lost the ability to think rationally?

If needs be I can tell you the exact moment but I was wondering if your state still allows you some degree of ability to formulate logical thought patterns.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 13, 2013 2:21 PM BST
It's strange and I don't want to overstate the case but when you conceded defeat and announced you were leaving the forum I actually did develop a very small amount of understanding of your plight. To do that after what I've done to you over the last year or so first on tradefair and then when you chased after me also on here was almost admirable.

Then you came back with your pop up bra and crotchless panties on calling me daddy and asking me to spank you some more and I can't tell you how saddened I was. For you. Even I have limits you know.
Report Menelaus July 13, 2013 2:41 PM BST
You never answer a question on here when it destroys your lies. In the grandest display of hypocrisy, you just call LIARS those who don't answer yours.

Had that question been asked WITHOUT CONTEXT by someone else, you'd be all over it like a wet blanket. "Of course it wasn't suicide, it was murder. They'd never have to jump off the roof top to their death had those evil jihadists not ram those planes into the buildings."

But now, that your pea sized brain has figured out the obvious parallels between Allende under siege and 9/11 WTC victims jumping off the roof.......all I hear are crickets chirping......covered up by more dancing, arm waiving, lies, spin and bluster.

You are an intellectual dwarf, which in itself is not particularly harmful nor repugnant. What is appalling however is your never ending, loud, arrogant and boastful proclamations on here on how much of an unethical racist and fascist loving scum you really are.

All I do is shine a light where there is darkness.Wink
Report Eeternaloptimist July 13, 2013 3:24 PM BST
I'd be more than happy to discuss the twin towers but you need to clarify where you are going here. Is this another attempt at a Mises change of argument? You know the one where he didn't want something in your mind and when it was proven that he did you changed your argument to he must have been confused?

I ask because it seems you are changing your story now from a categroic assertion that Allende was murdered by Pinochet's troops to one of because they intended to kill him and he took his own life that means that in effect they are guilty of his murder and all because I've once again peeled you like a grape.

So is that your new line of argument? If it is we can discuss it and indeed the twin towers but let me know and then I can chew you up some more.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 13, 2013 3:25 PM BST
By the way I like the bolding and capitals. Honestly it isn't making you look more deranged. Keep up the good work. Laugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 14, 2013 2:54 PM BST
24 hours. He must be dug in deep licking those wounds. Grin
Report Menelaus July 15, 2013 7:11 AM BST
I don't post for 24 hours and the mug goes into full convulsions. If I didn't know he was a psychopath, I'd think he was hooked or something.

And oh, yes, were those jumping out of windows and the rooftop of the WTC on 9/11 committing suicide, or where they murdered?

Perhaps the clueless and vile mug will have an epiphany one of these days and answer a question. I doubt it though.
Report Mister E July 15, 2013 11:27 AM BST
Fkin hell EO.
It was the weekend and the best weekend of the year.
Most forumites found better things to do.
Now off to the coast, I will be absent from the keyboard till tomorrow.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 15, 2013 11:46 AM BST
Mister E

You make too many assumptions. It was far from the best weekend where I live. It was quite nice watching all that sun on the computer though.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 15, 2013 11:47 AM BST
Melly

You're out of time and bullets son.
Report Menelaus July 15, 2013 1:51 PM BST
I don't need bullets. The best way to torture a clueless mug like you is with a razor blade.......slowly.

Still no answer to my question.

Wiki no help? ........LOL !!!!!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 15, 2013 1:55 PM BST
It's always the same with you Melly. The questions always come when you've been smashed and make no mistake you have been well and truly smashed. To recap:

I put up all the evidence.

All your evidence validates my evidence.

So now the questions accompanied by attempts to take off with those whirring arms. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Menelaus July 15, 2013 2:00 PM BST
I think you need to look up the word evidence in the dictionary. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Do you still think that those who dance, obfuscate and divert attention INSTEAD OF ANSWERING A QUESTION are liars?

If you still do, look in the mirror, it might shock you what you see.....LOL !!!!!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 15, 2013 2:34 PM BST
Yes I do and I'm more than happy to discuss your diversion but you need to clarify what point you are seeking to make. If you are still alleging despite the evidence that the troops shot Allende then it is irrelevant and what is the point in discussing an irrelevance when your balls are in a vice?

So have you now changed your view?
Report Menelaus July 16, 2013 5:11 AM BST
I think you are confused again but also as usual you raise the bar on hyprcricy to a whole new level.

You continue to dance, wiggle, spin and lie but I still don't see an answer to my question. And you have the audacity to ask a question and expect an answer. It would be sad if it wasn't so comical.

We're those jumping from the windows and rooftop of the WTC on 9/11 committing suicide, or we're they murdered?

The Supreme Court of the US in a unanimous decision already decided on that, they said it was murder.

Allende was killed with two shots to the head. John Dinges was the ONLY investigative journalist to interview witnesses at the time, before they disappeared or died, and they collaborate the two shots heard version of events. The original Coroners report refers to two exit wounds in the skull. Dr. Luis Ravanal, a Coroner and a forensic expert concluded that the two shots were quite possibly fired from different weapons. So no change to my story at all, you can't change the facts and the truth to "fit" a story.

But since it was quite apparent, you are so married to a narrative that Allende committed suicide, and believe an autopsy that was performed 40 years after the event, instead of those who investigated the death at the time, and the original autopsy report, I thought I would come at this a different way and show your massive blind spots.

If you apply the same legal principles as the US Supreme Court ruling, whether Allende was killed or was shot by others becomes a moot point. Given the circumstances of his death, he was murdered either way.

Of course you have enough computing power in your two functioning brain cells to figure that out and that's why you REFUSED to answer the question although it was asked repeatedly. Your blind spots, massive hypocrisy, your love for all things fascist, you blind faith in anything you come across that confirms your bias without a morsel of critical thinking and the fact that you are nothing more than a rancid POS trying to impress beyond his ability meant that the question could not be answered.

And an honest debate could not be had, just more wiggling, more dancing, more lies, more diversions and the beat goes on.
Report Menelaus July 16, 2013 5:13 AM BST
Meant to say, whether Allende committed suicide or was shot by others.
Report Menelaus July 16, 2013 10:06 AM BST
I'm sorry, corroborate not collaborate the two guns shots heard story. Duh..........

And just to make Eeternalfascist's wiki searches a little easier, the legal principle applied by the US Supreme Court in delivering their decision that those who jumped to their death from the burning WTC on 9/11 were murdered, and which it obvioulsy applies to Allende under siege in the presidential palace, is "third party culpability".

Anyone who worked in a barrister's office other than cleaning the toilets would know that. Of course, they would also have known about the legal principle of the "test of a reasonable man" which Eeternalfantasist  who claims to have passed a barrister's exam also hadn't a clue of what it is when asked.

You have to separate reality from the illusion on here, and everything becomes so easy.....LOL !!!!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 16, 2013 11:07 AM BST
So it isn't the Mises changing your story routine. Its the two bites at the cherry argument

Okay. You're sticking to your first dog shiit story. Good. I've dealt with that. Dinges evidence is consistent with the original and indeed subsequent autopsy reports. Allende had an AK47. It was switched to automatoc fire. Two bullets. Two cartridge cases. Two exit wounds. Next Ravanelli. It was possibly two guns. Next Oh there is no next. Laugh

So it isn't the Mises changing your story. It's the two bites at the cherry argument.

So now we have the he was murdered argument because he killed himself argument and as I said you curiously seek to link it the twin towers case. I'm afraid you fail just as miserably on this one as well Melly. In that case death was inevitable and imminent whatever those people jumping did. They chose to jump to their deaths rather than be burned alive. Allende's case was different as can be seen from his final address to the Chilean people:


On September 11, 1973, just prior to the capture of the Palacio de La Moneda (the presidential palace) by military units loyal to Pinochet, President Salvador Allende made his famous farewell speech to Chileans on live radio (Radio Magallanes). The president spoke of his love for Chile and of his deep faith in its future. He also stated that, as he was committed to Chile, he would not take an easy way out or be used as a propaganda tool by those he called "traitors" (accepting an offer of safe passage, like Carlos Altamirano). The radio address was made while gunfire and explosions were clearly audible in the background.

Shortly afterwards an official announcement declared that he had gone to war with an AK-47 rifle.[5] An autopsy also recorded his death as a suicide


I'm sure you will be back with more bullshiit but what would the reasonable man conclude Melly? Laugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 16, 2013 11:09 AM BST
Of course, they would also have known about the legal principle of the "test of a reasonable man" which Eeternalfantasist  who claims to have passed a barrister's exam also hadn't a clue of what it is when asked.

By the way can you point to any evidence for this assertion? We both know it's a lie but we can dance till you run away or go off at another tangent. Laugh
Report Menelaus July 16, 2013 1:11 PM BST
The only lies I see on here are those you keep repeating over and over again. I guess you figured it was a safe bet for you to say "where is the evidence I didn't know the principle of the reasonable man" when you full well know that that exchange took place almost two years ago and it's now buried under literally thousands of new threads and posts. Nicely played to prolong the illusion with your lemming friends on here but poorly played for you and I who both know the truth.

You keep cutting and pasting whatever you come across (funny how links to those pages are missing; embarrassed perhaps?) that confirms your bias while IGNORING all evidence to the contrary. And at this point I couldn't be bothered to continue to set you straight as there is absolutely no hope of getting you to change your ways. That's how you debate. You move the goalposts and then accuse the other person for doing it, you lie, you spin, you obfuscate, you create diversions, you dance...........and in the end, when all is lost, you show up with aliases. Honest debate is not on your radar screen because, well, because it would mean you'd lose.

Only an intellectual dwarf like you who tries to impress beyond his ability, one who is so dishonest to debate anything without lying and spinning yarns, and one who hasn't met a murderous fascist he doesn't love, can still PRETEND not to understand that IT MATTERS NOT whether Allende took his own life or if he was shot by Pinochet's goons. On legal principle, and precedent set in many previous cases on the principle of "third party culpability" and the recent decision of the Supreme Court of the US concerning 9/11 victims, ALLENDE WAS MURDERED.

Now grow some balls and apologize. Not to me, to all the Pinochet's victims, including Allende. The taking of innocent life is called murder, here, in Chile and everywhere else.
Report Menelaus July 16, 2013 1:14 PM BST
BTW, I'm sure no one noticed that you are posting on other threads but still IGNORE and are UNABLE to answer the simple question regarding the numbers you put up on the Castro thread........LMFAO !!!!

I warned you, I torture you with a razor blade one cut at a time. (insert wink smiley here)
Report Menelaus July 16, 2013 2:19 PM BST
I suspected this earlier but I didn't want to post without confirming with some research.

All that pseudo-intelectual rubbish you posted, "he had the AK-47 switched on automatic fire" to justify how someone could shoot himself in the head with two bullets is again a figment of your imagination trying to make your story "fit".

An AK-47 shoots 10 rounds PER SECOND, so even a slight touch of the trigger would release significantly more than two rounds. Unless, now you "refine" your story to say that the magazine only had two rounds.

Another nasty little detail, witnesses spoke of two gun shots being heard. That hardly fits the description of two bullets ripping out of an AK-47 1/10th of a second apart.

Next? Or there is no next, just more spin and lies........LOL !!!!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 16, 2013 3:08 PM BST
Yo keep referring to lies Melly. Where are these lies or is it just more of the ongoing Melly narrative? I'm quoting from the experts. You know those people brought in to analyse what happened instead of the Melly chump prognosticating in his bedsit. Their conclusions. Not mine. Theirs. 40 years after the event blah blah blah. Forensics departments need to stop all those old cases now. Their work is clearly in vain. Melly says so. Laugh

By the way I see you've gone quiet on the, he was murdered because he wasn't line of reasoning. Another squashing. Evidence is such an inconvenience isn't it?

As for the reasonable man business if you had evidence you would have put it up. You didn't find it hard to quote from me previously. You haven't got the evidence. I remember the discussion very well where you alleged I didn't know what it was and I put you right. Which proves nothing. Many reasonably educated people with no legal training will know about the man on the Clapham Omnibus.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 16, 2013 3:19 PM BST
And from the BBC:

A Chilean court has confirmed that President Salvador Allende killed himself in 1973 as troops attacked the presidential palace to oust him.

Official reports, accepted by his family, had concluded that his death was suicide but his body was exhumed in 2011 to settle lingering doubts.

The court's ruling came as Chileans marked the anniversary of the 11 September coup.

Violence broke out and police said an officer had died after being shot.

The officer, named as Cristian Martinez Badilla, was hit during disturbances on the outskirts of the capital, Santiago.

There were also clashes in Santiago, as hooded protesters blocked traffic and started fires, and police responded with tear gas. Violence was also reported in other cities, including Valparaiso and Valdivia.

The unrest happened as Chileans remembered the events of 11 September 1973 when troops under Gen Augusto Pinochet attacked the presidential palace with air force jets and tanks.

Inside was President Allende, the country's first left-wing leader. According to official accounts he shot himself as troops stormed the building.

The Allende family has always accepted this version. But some of his supporters suspected he had been killed by soldiers.

Last year, his family agreed to have his body exhumed so that an international team of experts could determine the cause of death.

Their report concluded that Allende was killed by two bullets shot from a rifle set on automatic held between his legs.

On Tuesday, a Chilean appeals court closed the re-examination of his death, upholding the findings that it was suicide.


A sane person would just accept they've been beaten by the better more rational man. I'm counting on your insanity Melly. Don't let me down. Get blowing those saliva bubbles out of your mouth. Come on sucker. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report tobermory July 17, 2013 12:50 AM BST
Yes ,Hitler and Mugabe did become dictators after initially having some democratic legitimacy.

But Hitler never made much pretence of his intentions; communists were being rounded up within weeks of his becoming Chancellor and he would have clearly have rounded up a lot more if he hadn't needed to worry about the reaction of Hindenberg . Had he moved for complete power right away it's possible the Nazis would have been crushed by The Army.

Mugabe was trying to overthrow an undemocratic regime by using violence , and the democratic route was a compromise that he took to get power with some checks and blances rather than the typical African regime of the day that he likely had in mind.

Neither of those had ever been convincing as democrats .

Allende was a democratic politician for may years who came to power democratically and was trying to govern lawfully for a lengthy period . The allegations against him by the parliament i don't know the truth of either way .It does read to me like they were getting the justification for the coup in before the event . Even if he was becoming undemocratic in his methods it still remains that removing him led to a regime that was a brutal dictatorship from Day 1  .So it is a 'we had to destroy the village to save it' argument .
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 3:33 AM BST
So far you cut & pasted THE SAME IDENTICAL Associated Press story from Wikipedia, the Guardian and now the BBC. As if by reposting something over and over and BOLDING the print will make it more believable so we can all put any critical thinking aside.

The issues however for anyone with a functioning brain and WITHOUT a massive bias:

1. The Chilean courts conclusion came almost 40 years AFTER the event and without addressing two very significant handicaps. Key witnesses  by this time had either disappeared or died. And a botched exhumation 22 years earlier rendered any subsequent autopsy useless.

2. The same Chilean court does not consider the attack by an army junta against a legitimate democratically elected president, and where property was destroyed and people died a crime. Perhaps that makes sense to someone like you who cleaned the urinals in a barrister's office, but it doesn't make sense to any reasonable unbiased observer.

3. The Chilean court rejected the "third party culpability" principle in the death of Allende although the parralels between Allende in a collapsing and burning building under fire from Pinochet's goons and those who were jumping out of the roof top of WTC on 9/11 is remarkably similar. And in which the US Supreme Court ruled that applying the principle of "third party culpability" was appropriate in delivering a murder verdict.

4. The Chilean government has not made available to the court documents from the Pinochet regime that could shed significant light on this matter because they are considered "classified" and placed under seal until 2040. Perhaps a fascist loving mug like you can accept that as "normal", any unbiased observer would come to the conclusion that the Court should have been provided with those documents if the truth was being sought.

None of what you just read is new, I posted it on previous posts earlier on this thread. It's just that you keep ignoring it all and burying it under BOLDED cut and paste's of the SAME STORY.

One of these days, you should try to impress me not by posting cut and pastes that confirm your bias, but rather demonstarting once that you can actually........THINK.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 11:17 AM BST
Impress you? Impress you? I'm doing my bit for care in the community and you want me to impress you? Such delusion. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 11:21 AM BST
Listen Melly. You can wave as much as you like but you can't answer one simple question which goes to the heart of this:

Did a panel of international experts brought in to address the issue arrive at the conclusion that Allende killed himself?

I say yes. Let's assume your delusion doesn't stretch to disputing this fact. This begs another question:

If you were one of these international experts would you risk your professional credibility as an individual arriving at an ill informed conclusion?

Remember this Melly. All of them arrived at the same conclusion. There were no dissenters.

How do you account for that?

Take your time.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 11:42 AM BST
The Chilean court rejected the "third party culpability" principle in the death of Allende although the parralels between Allende in a collapsing and burning building under fire from Pinochet's goons and those who were jumping out of the roof top of WTC on 9/11 is remarkably similar.

Do you have a source for this assertion because it seems to me that only a madman like you would even suggest there is any similarity let alone that there is a remarkable similarity.
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 1:26 PM BST
Debating with you, sooner or later, seems to always ultimately come down to the philosophical question "does the moon really exist if no one looks at it?".

You look away from "the moon" by ignoring everything posted by anyone who disagrees with you (many others have spoken up on how vile and distorted your views on Pinochet really are, not just me), by repeating the same cut & paste bullsh1t over and over and over again until those you are debating with simply just get tired of it and leave the thread, by refusing to answer questions when answeriing them would expose your massive blind spots, and by deluting yourself with imaginary victories that exist only in your sick mind.

Perhaps in the fantasy, make-believe world you created on here, the moon doesn't exist. Unfortunately, however, you still haven't clued in that in the real world that everyone else lives in the moon does exist whether you bother to look up or not.

You are intellectual dwarf trying to impress beyond his ability, which in itself is not necessarily harmful or  that distasteful. What is distasteful is your continued attempts to deceive, your racist views and your blind love for all things fascist. That's why I enjoy torturing you so much. I pulled back the veil on you and all there was standing there behind the loud noise and the bluster was nothing more than a common con artist.
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 1:36 PM BST
As for your "do you have a source for that" question, your hypocrisy has gone beyond being tragicomic.

You have to EARN the right to ask questions on here and EXPECT an answer. And you don't earn that right by dancing, spinning and shouting "hey look over there" which is what you CONSISTENTLY do on these threads when asked a question, you earn it by ANSWERING.




This is your cue now to throw your hands up in the air and start shouting "I destroyed you, I destroyed you"..........LMFAO !!!!!!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 1:45 PM BST
You have to EARN the right to ask questions on here and EXPECT an answer

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 1:47 PM BST
I'll repeat. I can see you're having difficulty:

Did a panel of international experts brought in to address the issue arrive at the conclusion that Allende killed himself?

I say yes. Let's assume your delusion doesn't stretch to disputing this fact. This begs another question:

If you were one of these international experts would you risk your professional credibility as an individual arriving at an ill informed conclusion?

Remember this Melly. All of them arrived at the same conclusion. There were no dissenters.

How do you account for that?

Take your time.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 1:48 PM BST
Or perhaps you would like to discuss third party culpability some more. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 2:16 PM BST
More arm waiving, more dancing, more bluster, just the same lies and bullsh1t over and over. This is another "let's discuss Hayek" moment.

You need someone to explain to you that a chess game ends when someone calls "checkmate". And for you checkmate came several posts ago. All you are doing now is the same old diversion sh1t that you do every time I pull your pants down.

Everyone is getting tired of it.
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 2:18 PM BST
It's also laughable that you have the gall to ask questions.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 2:32 PM BST
It's also laughable that you have the gall to ask questions.

All I have to do is lean on you. Your delusional state is never far below the surface. After all you have to earn the right to ask questions here. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 2:33 PM BST
By the way which lies would they be Melly? The lies of the international panel assembled to determine how Allende died? LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 2:39 PM BST
The only person you are trying to con at this stage with your delusional rumblings is yourself. And not even doing a very good job of that even, if I may add.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 2:48 PM BST
I don't need to con anybody. An international panel of experts unanimously agree with my view. I don't need to con anybody or muddy the waters. I leave you to do that. Poorly.
Report Menelaus July 17, 2013 3:00 PM BST
Intelectual dwarfs like you get impressed by fancy words and spin without an ability to think for themselves and ask questions. Which word is that impresses you more "international" or "panel".

Others like me prefer to first ask questions:
Who was on this panel?
What are their backgrounds?
How were they selected to be on the panel?
Have they had any political affiliations in the past that could suggest a bias?
Do they have any potential conflicts of interest?
WHO paid for their time and work on the panel?
What evidence did they review?
How did they get around the massive problem that a botched exhumation 22 years ago rendered all subsequent autopsies useless?
How did they get around the issue of no available witnesses?
How did they get around the issue of not having access to pertinent material that is considered classified?

.........and all this, just for starts.

Some of all like to look beyond the headline because we don't think scouring wiki looking to confirm a bias and trying to impress the lemmings on here is enough.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 17, 2013 4:06 PM BST
So what are the answers to your questions Melly or do you just ask questions?
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 4:23 PM BST
And according to US sources Che Guevara was killed in a fire fight!

Shocked
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 4:25 PM BST
And there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!

Confused
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 4:26 PM BST
And a pressure cooker is a weapon o mass destruction!

Crazy
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 4:28 PM BST
And Chevez was worth $2 billion!

Sad
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 4:30 PM BST
And according to grappler & eternalyingfascist, The New York Times is pro Castro, - O and so was President Kennedy!

LaughLaughLaugh
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 4:32 PM BST
LaughLaughLaugh

Mentally deranged or what!
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 8:46 PM BST
Quote President Clinton - " I did not have sexual relations with that womam!"

Sad
Report northernlad5 July 17, 2013 9:03 PM BST
3 days later quote President Clinton - "I did have sexual relations with that woman!"

LaughLaughLaugh

Hurray - "Clinton for President! Clinton for President! Clinton for President!"

I think we all know what a sick lying and disgusting society the mighty USA is!

"President,Some of our leading athletes have failed drug tests!"

"Does anyone else know about this? - Can we get any commmie **** on the tester?"

So much for US sources!

LaughLaughLaugh
Report northernlad5 July 18, 2013 8:10 AM BST
"A pressure cooker is a weapon of mass destruction!"

I wish the yanks had told Blair that before he agreed to invade Iraq!

Cry
Report Menelaus July 18, 2013 2:00 PM BST
@ Eeternalfascist

If you are really interested in educating yourself on Pinochet and Chile, stop the authoress and faceless wiki cut and pastes that do nothing but confirm your bias, DO SOME REAL RESEARCH. Pay close attention here, I didn't say searches, I said RESEARCH.

What you discover will turn your world upside down but it will at least stop you from posting lies and rubbish on here and getting embarrassed.

RESEARCH:

Congressman Michael Harrington

Senate Select Committee working paper on covert action in Chile

Thomas Karamessines, Chief Clandestine Services

Church Committee report to US Congress

National intelligence Committee report to US Congress "CIA activities in Chile"


Then give me a shout again :)
Report Eeternaloptimist July 18, 2013 2:03 PM BST
I'll give you a shout when you can come off the naughty step. We can continue the discussion then if you like. Only if you learn some manners though.
Report Menelaus July 18, 2013 2:12 PM BST
Spoken like a true dumbed down fascist.

I expected nothing more form you, I just wanted to pull the veil back a little further. That's all.

LMFAO !!!!
Report curious-cat July 21, 2013 8:39 PM BST
Eternaloptimist

you are a dsgrace !
Report Eeternaloptimist July 21, 2013 9:35 PM BST
On what basis curious cat?
Report Menelaus July 22, 2013 4:01 AM BST
How about on every basis?

Clear enough to you, or did I miss something I didn't include?
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