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Pounf
29 Jan 12 16:05
Joined:
Date Joined: 04 Feb 02
| Topic/replies: 10,296 | Blogger: Pounf's blog
Whilst I find racism and homophobia reprehensible, I am somewhat uncomfortable that a 59 year old bloke at a football match has been arrested for making a racist gesture.
I had to think hard what the gesture could be, and have only come up with a monkey imitation ie hands scratching under the armpits thing. Now this is hardly an incitement to riot, its not endangering anybody and the only person who looks a tool is the bloke doing it. Do we need the Police to wade in and start arresting people over things like this. I go to football regularly, and you cant drink, you cant smoke, you cant stand, you cant sing songs that would upset anybody, and now you cant gesture....
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Report blackburn1 January 31, 2012 1:39 PM GMT
I can honestly say in my whole life I have never met people with the views some of these right-wingers have.

See what I mean about karla?

The poor thing lives in such a cosseted little fluffy bunny world. I went to a party recently in an ex mining village, the club there, the old miners would have a field day with karla.

And she claims to relate to the working class

Laugh
Report six gun January 31, 2012 1:52 PM GMT
Karla - you make me smile. Happy

Incidentally I voted Lib Dem at the last election and may well vote Labour next time - my Labour MP has been helping me, help a lot of other people and I think she is doing a decent job by her constituents.
I admit I previously voted Tory and my inclinations are most definitely right of centre.

Java is spot on with a lot of what he says.
These "offences" are given a high profile and a disproportionate amount of media time plays over them because there are underlying political agendas.

No-one is dealing with the questions I asked.
Why not?
You get question dodging, a bit of abuse, BNP mentioned - LOL I did see it on the ballot whilst I was searching out the Lib Dem  candidate, and then it is - "this is racist" I don't talk to racists.

This is not racist, this is the opposite of it.
These laws, accusations, stigmatising labels fall almost exclusively fall on white people.
I saw an interview with Joe Brand (saw her live once she was very funny) - she says only white people can be racist.
So all these laws fall directly on white people.

The laws and the way the media operate is racist.
You have
"Kill the white slag" is not racist you see. But "You're not British, you're black" from Emma West is racist on worldwide proportions.

How did it come to this?
Report Java January 31, 2012 1:58 PM GMT
I am going to risk asking Karla another direct question:

Karla - do you think the Somalis in the "kill the white slag" episode were being racist?  If so, how do you feel that they were not charged with racism by the justice system?
Report six gun January 31, 2012 2:04 PM GMT
Java
Lots a very relevant questions and concerns but no answers.
Report Java January 31, 2012 2:09 PM GMT
She never answers direct questions. 

She will simply come on here, tell me that the answer is self-explanatory before calling myself and EO "bootlickers".  What a waste of space she is Sad
Report blackburn1 January 31, 2012 2:28 PM GMT
Sorry chaps but your work is done and its been futile. Read her 13.20 post that I c&p'd, she lives in a parallel universe of massively above average wages, parental safety blanket, oblivious of how millions live and think.

As my mate says

Never try and teach a pig to sing

Happy
Report twomatchpoints January 31, 2012 11:11 PM GMT
sibaroni
31 Jan 12 13:04   
I am not.  You have begun a thread predicated on this guys behaviour and alluding to thought police.

It is ridiculous.  The vast majority of people agree with his arrest.  Thereis no slient majority my friend - that is why the BNP got uttlery humiliated in the last local elections, winning one council seat out of the 250 odd they contested.


Snobaroni - remind us again - how many seats did the Lib-Dums win at the same elections ?

You do remember the Lib-Dums don't you ?

They were the ones who got less votes than Labour, who were on the way out.
Report sibaroni January 31, 2012 11:16 PM GMT
We are in Gvt winkle - the comparison is laughable.  The BNP have no more relevance than the Monster Raving Loonies.

Accept it.
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 12:29 AM GMT
How many did you win ?

You forgot to post the answer.


Your mob aren't in govt, they're there, supposedly 50% in charge, LaughLaughLaugh because your chinless wonder boy crawled into Camerons camp bed.

Accept it.
Report six gun February 1, 2012 1:31 AM GMT
I still have not had any of the questions I posed addressed.
I have had a bit of an attack (to be expected), subtle links made to the BNP Laugh and accused as being a racist sympathiser.  This is all to be expected.

I fully accept the Muppet at the Kop end was exactly that and from the photos I have seen of him does not have my sympathies.
He has been bailed, there are no charges at the moment.

The questions relate to the lack of even handedness with political correctness.
That there is a general reluctant to view events by non-whites are racist or racially motivated.
Thus it follows the primary target for "attack" by these hate crime laws and stigmatising labels are the ordinary white people in this country.

If anyone would like to disagree with this, please speak up.
For those who do not disagree with this, can this be explained?
Report macarony February 1, 2012 9:19 AM GMT
blackburn
31 Jan 12 10:58
Joined:
15 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 16,154 | Blogger: blackburn's blog
mac, its achieved plenty of work from parasitic lawyers, they love racism its what buys them their big houses in Cheshire.

Guess what sib's job is?




You are quite right bb this law was brought in under guise of ending racism over 40 years ago. But it as not worked if anything it is a major contributor to the problem and we will still have racism in another 40 years if things don't change. People see it for what it is a tool to for social engineering w

If they genuinely wanted to rid the country of racism and we both know that is not always the case they would first need to address the mismanagement of our immigration policy nothing wrong with immigration just the shambling way it has been handled.
And secondly instead of persecuting people who have concerns about mass immigration via this unjust law, listen to them in-gage in sensible dialogue
Report six gun February 1, 2012 9:32 AM GMT
This is why I say "You are living in a dream world." to some of the posters who seem to believe that there isn't "trouble at mill."
There is trouble at mill and by living in cloud cuckoo land they are contributing to it.
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 9:51 AM GMT
No there isn't six gun.  The idiots have been calling it that way for years, and yet it never comes.  All I see is a dwindling band of white men muttering into their beer about good old times that never existed.
Report Dr Crippen February 1, 2012 10:06 AM GMT
All I see is a dwindling band of white men


That's about as racist as you can get.
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 10:08 AM GMT
I don't see many non-white men supporting a blokes right to impersonate a monkey in front of black footballers.  Perhaps you could enlighten me?
Report Dr Crippen February 1, 2012 10:09 AM GMT
Somebody comes on here going on about racism drying up and he comes out with that.

That’s absolutely priceless.
Report Java February 1, 2012 10:23 AM GMT
Spot on Crippen.
Report Java February 1, 2012 10:24 AM GMT
Sibaroni is obviously on the "kill the white slag" side of racism.  Where you the imbecilic judge in that case Sib?  Laugh
Report Java February 1, 2012 10:26 AM GMT
"Were you"
Report Eeternaloptimist February 1, 2012 10:51 AM GMT
Sibaroni has clearly been taking lessons from the lefties. Anything which is a bit too hot to get stuck into simply hope it goes away.
Report Pounf February 1, 2012 10:52 AM GMT
Karla - I am a left wing libertarian, not the sell out Labour party we have since the Blair era, (how does that fit into your world view).It  just concerned me that the Police arresting somebody for doing something daft is ridiculous, and it worries me that the mindset is to arrest anybody who does or says anything that goes against the grain (or the sensibilties of the ruling classes).
Report Eeternaloptimist February 1, 2012 10:56 AM GMT
I can honestly say in my whole life I have never met people with the views some of these right-wingers have. A very odd bunch. If it's not lies, smears or insults, then it's ridiculous extreme views that were long ago rejected.

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh Clearly Karla is no fan of the notion of disagreeing with a view but defending the right of someone to hold it.
Report Pounf February 1, 2012 11:03 AM GMT
Spot on Eeternal.
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 11:12 AM GMT
I have to say, with one outstanding exception from a few years ago, I have not encountered in the real world, views expressed on here daily.  It is a very unreal place where right wing nutters congregate (all three or four of them) to make themselves feel a little more ordinary.
Report Java February 1, 2012 11:17 AM GMT
What world do you live in?

I regularly hear people discussing (in no particular order):

- Concerns on immigration
- Distrust of the EU
- Ridicule of our incompetent and liberal judiciary
- Concerns over ridiculous government spending
- Concerns over public sector leeches
- Ridicule of our utterly useless politicians

Which nutter ideas are you referring to?  Which of the above are we not allowed to discuss?   Or perhaps you only to talk to fellow parasitical lawyers looking for the next buck from the legal aid teat?
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 11:23 AM GMT
Java - this thread is given over to the question of whether a person should be able to make monkey noises and actions at a black footballer, in the name of freedom of speech.

I know of not one person in the real world who would regard the matter as even open to debate.
Report Pounf February 1, 2012 11:24 AM GMT
sib - have you considered the possibility that maybe people are nervous about saying something that could come back and bite them in the a$$...or do you "know" what everybody thinks ?
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 11:28 AM GMT
I consider what people say to be the best indication of what they think.
Report Java February 1, 2012 11:32 AM GMT
Sibaroni - you have alluded that we are all right wing nutters.  My thoughts are clear in this thread, and you'll find I don't condone the mimicking of a monkey.
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 11:42 AM GMT
You wonder throughout the thread why the police are pursuing this guy, instead of other criminals.

The answer is because he did it on camera and it is a serious matter.
Report Java February 1, 2012 11:54 AM GMT
You don't think it's a fair question?  Asking why the police seem to be content to leave you alone if you have a burglar in your house, but will vigorously chase a racist dunce?  Does it make me a nutter raising this point?  If it does, then you're an idiot.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/145132-police-too-busy-for-999-axe-attack-call

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-449703/Police-busy-arrest-burglar.html

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23371427-mothers-fury-as-she-reports-burglar---but-police-are-too-busy.do
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 11:56 AM GMT
The guy committed the crime in front of a camera.  Of course they have to pursue it.  If the crimes you allude to above were on camera, I have no doubt at all they would identify and pick up the perpetrators.

I can think of worse crimes than putting a cat in a bin, but when that stupid woman got filmed doing it, she was going to get tugged.

And in any event, the racist taunting by your footy fan was a serious matter.
Report Dr Crippen February 1, 2012 11:59 AM GMT
It's increased court action that Sib is promoting.
Race is just another subject that keeps the cash registers singing for him and his kind.

What lengths will they go to simply to get people into court to turn a penny for our learned friends?

It marks the end of any suggestion of free speech, now every word you utter has to be guarded in case you offend someone.

And the lawyers must be delighted.
Report sibaroni February 1, 2012 12:01 PM GMT
"Every word you utter"

He was directing monkey impersonations at a black footballer.
Report Dr Crippen February 1, 2012 12:08 PM GMT
That’s even worse, he didn’t say anything or touch anybody, or obstruct anyone.
He just stood there and acted the fool and got arrested for it.
The law is an ass, and the laws are made by naive people encouraged in making their stupid rulings by greedy pigs who happen to be lawyers.
Report blackburn1 February 1, 2012 12:38 PM GMT
sib is as bad as karla with his narrow view of the populus.

Have you never heard jokes about gays, black men's nobs, lezzas, the Irish etc etc. Do you live in this idyllic middle class muliticultural world of happy families, good jobs and expensive wine.

You are a snob sibaroni, and a condescending hypocrite with it.
Report Pounf February 1, 2012 1:06 PM GMT
A couple of extra things thrown in..

If I call Danny Alexander a ginger tw*t, am I being racist ? will I get arrested ?

How long before there`s a law that the poeple around the monkey guy get arrested for being complicit in his actions ? ..or is there one already ...

PS Sib - you say that you take what people say is an indication of what they think...are you sure you`re a lawyer ??

PPS - How long before Facebook now becomes a tool of control
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 2:50 PM GMT
twomatchpoints
01 Feb 12 00:29   
How many did you win ?

You forgot to post the answer.

Your mob aren't in govt, they're there, supposedly 50% in charge, Laugh because your chinless wonder boy crawled into Camerons camp bed.

Accept it.


You forgot to answer again.
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 2:51 PM GMT
I take it that we all evolved from apes.

So why were white players on the pitch not offended by this mans behaviour?
Report Dr Crippen February 1, 2012 3:18 PM GMT
tmp, your point is a good one.

It seems the powers that be must think that some have evolved more than others.
That is true racism -  the judgement that some races are superior.

You've hit the nail on the head there.
Report macarony February 1, 2012 3:21 PM GMT
sibaroni
01 Feb 12 09:51
Joined:
13 Mar 05
| Topic/replies: 7,569 | Blogger: sibaroni's blog
No there isn't six gun.  The idiots have been calling it that way for years, and yet it never comes.  All I see is a dwindling band of white men muttering into their beer about good old times that never existed

I think you are one that is out of touch, few people will openly say what they think in public because it is against the law and we all know the consequnces if we disagree with the system, but racism is still very much alive. I asked you before what as this law achived?
you also made a comment about the bnp and how few votes they got, well they are a small single issue party at best a protest vote most people have more than one concern health education the economy etc, what would happen if one of the mainstream partys made a pledge to sort out this mess?
Report Eeternaloptimist February 1, 2012 4:39 PM GMT
sibaroni

It really isn't that serious. It is a fool acting foolishly. People like yourself have changed an ancient, fair and broadly happy judicial system, admired and indeed aped Laugh around the world, into one where you can apparently in all seriousness come on here and describe the matter as a serious one. Most people would consider a serious offence to be something like Murder, Rape, GBH With Intent.

The day we allowed people like you to frame the law in a way which allowed you to make such a statement and not be laughed off the forum is the day we lost something precious in our legal system.
Report blackburn1 February 1, 2012 4:50 PM GMT
Quite, 40000 scousers left the ground embarrassed that one of theirs had acted like a complete fool, hardly crime of the century.

Still, it keeps the till ringing eh sib, theres no money in shrugging things off.

Hang on, what if Liverpool take the field all wearing tshirts with the monkeyman on the front.

Laugh
Report Comrade_Karla February 1, 2012 5:42 PM GMT
Why do right-wingers always make excuses for racists?
Why do they always see 'the other side of the argument'


I've said it before - scratch away at the surface of any right-winger...
Report Pounf February 1, 2012 5:53 PM GMT
"Why do they always see the other side of the argument" ???

Stop it now Karla, you`re just embarrassing yourself.
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 6:20 PM GMT
Comrade_Karla
01 Feb 12 17:42   
Why do right-wingers always make excuses for racists?
Why do they always see 'the other side of the argument'
I've said it before - scratch away at the surface of any right-winger...


Are you black ?
Report A.H HUNTER esq. February 1, 2012 6:23 PM GMT
Why do left wingers make excuses for Dianne Abbott ,no need to scratch away the surface here .

It is PC blatant .
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 6:27 PM GMT
Quite.

You make monkey gestures and you get arrested.

You go on televison on quite a few occasions and are clearly seen to be racist towards whites, but you get to keep your job at over a grand a week, plus expenses, when you would be arrested, charged, found guilty and sacked.
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 6:28 PM GMT
should, not would.
Report A.H HUNTER esq. February 1, 2012 6:33 PM GMT
And there are thousands of Dianne Abbotts in the Labour party and working in local government,karla is probably one . They are so protected they think nothing of acting in a racist manner,it is PC ok .

   They are in control of where the money and benefits are distributed.
Report Pounf February 1, 2012 7:26 PM GMT
2mp, I dont see the relevance of Karlas colour ?? (AH - or her job).

I do find it odd she cant see that this was originally a discussion about the erosion of freedoms of the the individual, (including the freedom to make a fool of yourself) and the pervidious way the authorities are slowly but surely controlling and intervening more and more, and she has labelled everybody who disagrees with her sheltered view, as right wingers, which I patently am not.

It does seem however, that a large number of people are concerned by what is perceived as one way racism, or rather that its only one section of society that can be accused of being racist, for me thats another issue, and one which is worth further exploration.

Incidentally, re the fate of Facebook, this should be something that we ought to worry about. We now live in a World where this particular medium has helped bring down Governments and dictators with the ability to rally large sections of the population, the ruling classes will be desperate to get control of this.
Report The beauty of Buzzer February 1, 2012 7:48 PM GMT
We are being wound up to turn on eachother by the right wing media to stop us turning on the real enemy, this old tactic is known as divide and conquer and we mustn't fall for it. Black people don't need protection from stupid old men making gestures to rich footballers and whoever posted his photo up on Twitter and informed the police should spend a night in a cell for shi t stirring and grassing. Like that woman on the croyden tram , these people don't have the power to incite racial hatred the real culprits are those who publicise these cases as if they are the norm as this is where the racial hatred is really being incited.Right wing media has a lot to answer for.
Report six gun February 1, 2012 9:46 PM GMT
I am clearly labelled as one of the middle aged white male beer supping muttering racists.

I asked some people who weren't so afflicted who had never heard of this footballing event.

I explained there was a football match Liverpool v Oldham. A black player was upset by something he had seen in the crowd. I said there was a guy in the crowd doing this (I copied the actions of Phil Gannon).
On a scale of 1 to 10 how serious would you consider this to be?
The results were low; "point 5", 1 or 2.

Do you consider this merits arrest - No
Do you consider this is (should be an offence) No
It's not very nice but it should not be an offence.

What would you say if someone said this was a serious offence?
One reply was "I would think they would need their head tested"

I asked if it was racist?
Replies included that this monkey gesture went on long before there were blacks in the country. "I have known it when lots of people had never seen a black person." (we are dealing with an older age group in this instance).

I was asked how would the player know it was directed at him when it was someone in the crowd?
Why wasn't it made towards a player  behind him?
Assume that it was for the purposes of the questions, I say.

What has it got to do with being black?
Why could it not have been directed at a white player?

I found myself thinking what happened was worse than those questioned. I think this related to having seen this lad being upset.

The remark asking what it had to do with being black was interesting.
It is an issue I have mentioned.

If there is claimed this is a racist insult then it must be specific to a particular race.

Those who would maintain this is a racist insult must feel that there is some justified link to being black and a monkey gesture.
Logical deduction of this leads to the conclusion that those saying this is a racist insult are themselves racist.

This was not a serious offence.
They would not convict of whipping up racial hatred.
There is no connection between being black and the monkey gesture, this is not a racist insult although it is insulting.

The leftist liberal racial delusionist still have not address my questions. I will have to collect them together and repost.

I do not have a Facebook/Twitter account.
They are a menace.
There are allegations that the CIA and Facebook have associations.
They no doubt love it. People give their personal details, email, phone numbers, likes, dislikes, friends, activities, photos.....
The authorities hate Blackberry with its encrypted texting. Must be they are scanning texts, emails.
Funny how many people get caught out so quickly on good old Twitter, including our Diane.
Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 10:27 PM GMT
Can a black person call another black person a black bastard ?
Report six gun February 1, 2012 10:48 PM GMT

Feb 1, 2012 -- 4:27PM, twomatchpoints wrote:


Can a black person call another black person a black bastard ?


Yes a black guy can call another black person a black bastard.
I could call one a black bastard.
I think what you are eluding to is would it be acceptable and would it be racist?

Well this is an interesting point.

When relating to black on black, it would depend on the spirit of the comment. It might be a friendly bit of banter or it could be an insult. I very much doubt an accusation this was racist would be taken seriously.

If I said this I would likely get a punch and or the book thrown at me.

Interestingly there was a case I brought to the forum.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357114/
Ten-year-old-accused-racism-calling-white-classmate-chocolate-brownie.html

The case involves two 10-year-old white boys.
One lad had the surname Brown.
The other lad called him a chocolate brownie.
The lad got disciplined and put on a register for a racist comment.

So a white child can be racist when speaking to another white child when calling each other food names.
But it is doubtful adult blacks will be called racist.

Political correctness is nothing about being nice to each other, it is all about mind control and oppressing white people. The evidence supports this.

Report twomatchpoints February 1, 2012 11:19 PM GMT
six gun
01 Feb 12 22:48   
I think what you are eluding to is would it be acceptable and would it be racist?

Well this is an interesting point.

When relating to black on black, it would depend on the spirit of the comment. It might be a friendly bit of banter or it could be an insult. I very much doubt an accusation this was racist would be taken seriously.


I refer you to a black shoplifter on television last week :

Security (two white blokes0 stopped him, but he started to fight and threatened to bite them as he was HIV positive (nice coont). As they pinned him to the floor, a black guard came over and sat on his legs.

The black bloke on the floor shouted that he was a facking nob (nothing was said) 

Then he shouted 'Get off my legs you black bastard'...

and one of the white guards told him to stop using  racist language. LaughLaugh
Report Eeternaloptimist February 1, 2012 11:39 PM GMT
six gun

In answer to whether this is racist I think our recent history circa 1960's-80's and that on the continent today suggests that it is and specifically aimed at black people. This and throwing bananas at black players was commonplace at grounds back then. We have grown up quite a lot since then. It is a matter for debate whether this was driven by legislation or our innate ability to eventually settle down and get along with incomers. My personal view is that it is the latter.

What has been exposed in this discussion is the skewed priorities of some people and the profoundly anti libertarian instincts of some when it comes to conduct which they find distasteful or offensive.
Report six gun February 1, 2012 11:42 PM GMT
This is a very interesting incident.

One case had the black word and the other chocolate.

Despite neither being relevant to the person it was directed towards, the inclusion of a word that has the potential to make a comment racist towards non-whites, results in it reflexly being deemed racist.

In the case of the adult black guy who says "black bastard," I strong suspect nothing happened other than the inane reflex that's racist comment. Twomatchpoints laughs - the black guy could not be racist.

In the case of the white child who says "chocolate brownie" the child is reprimanded and goes on a register.

Hmmmmm..... an ctual case making my point (again).
Report Eeternaloptimist February 1, 2012 11:53 PM GMT
A constantly worried or even better frightened populace is a compliant one. Job done.
Report six gun February 1, 2012 11:59 PM GMT

Feb 1, 2012 -- 5:39PM, Eeternaloptimist wrote:


six gunIn answer to whether this is racist I think our recent history circa 1960's-80's and that on the continent today suggests that it is and specifically aimed at black people. This and throwing bananas at black players was commonplace at grounds back then. We have grown up quite a lot since then. It is a matter for debate whether this was driven by legislation or our innate ability to eventually settle down and get along with incomers. My personal view is that it is the latter.What has been exposed in this discussion is the skewed priorities of some people and the profoundly anti libertarian instincts of some when it comes to conduct which they find distasteful or offensive.


@EO
I actually did ask these questions and these were actually the answers. They were not my thoughts or "answers."
I sometimes find it useful to check whether I am totally off beam.

I am glad to say I have never witnessed any of this banana nonsense.
Those I asked were not football supporters, hence they had not heard about the Liverpool v Oldham incident.
They would not be aware of these banana incidents either.
I have a better perspective of this now.

Back in the 70's I witnessed a great deal of racism - and here I mean real racism. Nasty comment, Paki bashing, bullying, teasing and so on. There was significant group pressure to be racist. I have been criticised for not conforming.

These commonplace extremes are much less evident, although I still witness it occasionally with jokes which have a nasty edge to them.

Phil Gannon is a Muppet head. There is no-one on the forum denying this.
The arguments are whether or not the reaction of the State is measured or excessive.
Whether this and the media response to this incident is balanced with respect to other offences.
Whether the reaction of the media and State is equitable between all the racial groups in the country.

I would maintain that the reaction was excessive if a black or Asian guy were pounced upon and arrested.

Report six gun February 2, 2012 10:18 AM GMT
I have since realised I am thinking of a different incident.
The one with this monkey stunt was with Evra. I have not heard of this. I thought it was the Oldham player who was aware of something in the crowd which upset him.

There had been a good deal of Evra hate since he complained about Suarez. This was personal to Evra and general to blacks.
There was organisation about this with tee-shirts being printed. There was probably more I don't know about.

I can see where the inciting racial hatred offence is coming from here and that such an accusation has some validity.
After seeing an old youtube video of Evra I think he is an oaf but in this instance the police were probably correct in collaring the guy. The situation had the potential to escalate and perpetuate, so something like this arrest has at least calmed it down.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 2, 2012 10:51 AM GMT
six gun

I was brought up at a similar time I think and there was a little very nasty stuff but quite a bit of low level racism. My best mate was an Indian whose dad had been sent packing with many others out of Uganda when Amin was up to all sorts. I asked his dad what he thought of Britain and his comments were very favourable. I asked him about racism as he owned a shop and he said that he got the odd comment but that the British people were a pretty decent bunch and that it is only when you appreciate what goes on elsewhere that you can truly judge.

Maybe it is in our natures but sometimes I think some people create more problems by looking for racism when we should be more proud of the way we generally rub along with each other.
Report six gun February 2, 2012 11:16 AM GMT
EO
I am Spain right now.
I went round to a friend's house. She is German but lived in the UK for a long time. She lives in Spain.
She just came out with the Spanish don't want us here (as in the British/other Europeans).
We are second class citizens.
I know what she is saying.
The Spanish are also sexist.
She wanted a gardener to cut the hedge level with a fence. The guy told her no. A male friend of her's went over and spoke to the gardener saying the same thing. The hedge was cut level with the fence.
I am just using this as an example but I know what she is saying.

The British on the whole are much fairer than many other countries. This is why we sometimes get chosen and exploited.

Yes there was a lot of low level racism in the UK in the 70's.
Since then the pendulum has go the other way.
There are people looking for racism - kids saying chocolate brownie.
Gross over reactions - application of laws which were intended for serious events not low level nonsense.
Without doubt the criticism, prosecution, stigmatisation and media propaganda falls almost exclusively on the white indigenous people of this country.

This is the issue I harp on about.
Racism is wrong. We should all be fair and decent to each other and the citizens of the UK should all be treated fairly and equally.
The laws should support and protect Britain, British people and their way of life. Put British people first. The Government has an absolute obligation to do that, and until they have fully discharged that responsibility everything else comes second.

I don't see this, so I object and we should all object. It actually breeds resentment but some people don't see that.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 2, 2012 1:29 PM GMT
You should have gone to Portugal. Better class of people.












































That's where I am at the moment. Laugh
Report sibaroni February 2, 2012 1:30 PM GMT
And you continue to post on here?  Bloody hell.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 2, 2012 1:32 PM GMT
Can't do much sunbathing when it is only 14 degrees. Still it is probably minus 14 where I am usually.
Report six gun February 2, 2012 1:54 PM GMT

Feb 2, 2012 -- 7:30AM, sibaroni wrote:


And you continue to post on here?

Report six gun February 2, 2012 1:56 PM GMT
Post on here and bet on here.
Why would you have it that people from other countries should not be allowed to do that?

Wouldn't that be racist?
Report sibaroni February 2, 2012 4:37 PM GMT
I think he is on holiday.  My surprise is based on the idea that whilst on holiday, you might have better things to do.
Report Eeternaloptimist February 2, 2012 4:41 PM GMT
Can't you do multi tasking?
Report Eeternaloptimist February 2, 2012 4:42 PM GMT
It isn't exactly a holiday. More necessity for the wife.
Report six gun February 2, 2012 4:56 PM GMT

Feb 2, 2012 -- 10:37AM, sibaroni wrote:


I think he is on holiday.

Report six gun February 2, 2012 4:56 PM GMT
Well I have had one of the best days on the horses for a long long time. I am well pleased.
I could stay on holiday for ever if it were like this.
Report twomatchpoints February 3, 2012 4:55 PM GMT
twomatchpoints
01 Feb 12 00:29   
How many did you win
?


twomatchpoints
01 Feb 12 14:50   

You forgot to post the answer.

Your mob aren't in govt, they're there, supposedly 50% in charge, because your chinless wonder boy crawled into Camerons camp bed.

Accept it.



You forgot to answer again.
Report sibaroni February 3, 2012 11:33 PM GMT
What is there to answer?  That the Lib Dems are part of the Gvt and therefore in Gvt. is simply a fact.
Report sibaroni February 3, 2012 11:37 PM GMT
I didn't know about any different rules for exiating tenants. Do those rules apply only to certain nationalities, or is their nationality completely irrelevant and just in the obsessive mind of winkle/jackcole/AITL/bannedrepeatedlyforbeingracist?
Report sibaroni February 3, 2012 11:39 PM GMT
wrong thread
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 12:28 AM GMT
^^^and he thinks he's intelligent.
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 12:30 AM GMT
Why do you think this; have I been making sweeping statements about my IQ as against whole general groups of population?
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 12:34 AM GMT
You don't believe that I have a higher I.Q. than the average unskilled black man ?
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 12:35 AM GMT
If you think you're dumb you're in the wrong job.
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 12:37 AM GMT
I have no knowledge of your IQ, and to pretend to even guess at such an unidentifiable group as "unskilled black man" is laughable.

Certainly I think it is a stupid thing to claim.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 12:45 AM GMT
It's not stupid when you've worked with over 400 of them.

You get to learn a lot about them.

How many have you actually worked with, not sat opposite to at a desk ?
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 12:49 AM GMT
I got this from chit chat, as you seem to have lost your way getting back to the thread, a mere 11 minutes after you posted this afternoon. 

sibaroni
03 Feb 12 15:41   
err... no it won't.  They are introducing a cap of £26,000 for everybody.  Did you not notice it on the thread somewhere?



twomatchpoints
03 Feb 12 15:52
So, Snobaroni, it WILL be a long wait then until a white family get the same deal.

What's your opinion on how a black family got this house house when white families have been on housing lists before the somalis got on the plane/boat/train to get here ?

Do you really think they will get evicted ?

I don't.

He won't want to go back to the poor area, will he ?

Perhaps he can move in with you, as you like them so much.
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 12:49 AM GMT
What, working at a desk doesn't count as working together?  I thank God you are so open as to your ignorance.
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 12:52 AM GMT
I don't know what happens to pre-existing tenancies.  I know that £2,000 a week rent on benefits is a thing of a past though, and I support that.

I am supremely uninterested in the nationality of the claimant who now wont get such rents paid.  And I see no evidence, and certainly dont take isolated examples as proving anything at all, that nationality forms any part of the rules, old or new.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 12:53 AM GMT
You represented hundreds (was it hundreds) being evicted.

Taking notes from the opposite side of a desk. 

Do you really count that as working with them ?

Swap sides of the desk, and see how they get on over your side.
Report For the benefit of Mr Kite February 4, 2012 12:56 AM GMT
Are you unskilled twp?
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 1:00 AM GMT
Well funnily enough, being as how I did manage to pick up the odd qualification along the way, I don't have much experience of unskilled jobs.  Did a few as a lad and a student - thats it.  I did work in restaurants mainly for a good seven years.  And yes, some of the others were black.

And some were every bright.  And some were not.  I never noticed a difference in intelligence based on colour.  Either in that context or any working context I have experienced, skilled or otherwise, in my life.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 1:04 AM GMT
sibaroni
04 Feb 12 00:52   
I don't know what happens to pre-existing tenancies.
 

You said he would be evicted when the cap came in.  You made that abundantly clear.

I know that £2,000 a week rent on benefits is a thing of a past though, and I support that.

Past ?  How did it happen in the first place.

I am supremely uninterested in the nationality of the claimant who now wont get such rents paid.  And I see no evidence, and certainly dont take isolated examples as proving anything at all, that nationality forms any part of the rules, old or new.

Isolated ?

I know of two somali families in Kilburn, in houses where the rent exceeds £1,400 a week.

I wrote of one of them yesterday, but you seem to have missed it. 

A reporter covered the story in the local Kilburn rag in 2009.

He said he found a similar sized property within 10 minutes of searching, close by, for a substantial sum less than was being paid by the dhss.

He reported it to the local housing office. They said they would look into it, and he quoted the representative in the paper.

He went back there one year later, she was still in the same house.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 1:06 AM GMT
For the benefit of Mr Kite
04 Feb 12 00:56   
Are you unskilled twp?


I must be.

I have no degrees, diplomas, GCEs or Boy Scout badges.
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 1:08 AM GMT
I have no doubt, none, that such large rents are enjoyed by white families as well.  And they shouldn't be.

I said the original family would be re-possessed in answer to your post before that where you suggested that they wouldn't be kicked out for rent arrears.  They would be. I have never, with many years experience, seen any difference in treatment of defendants based on ethnicity.  One way or the other.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 1:14 AM GMT
So how would you explain that 3 (there are probably more than 3 in London) somali families are in mansions, who have been here 'less than 5 minutes'

When there were thousands of indigenous white families in London, that were on housing lists for years before these families got here.

Do you know of ONE white family man who has gone into his local housing office and said 'I don't like it here, it's a poor area' and has been moved to a luxury house.

Having spent 50 years in London, I don't know one.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 1:21 AM GMT
The BBC seem to have done their best digging to find a family on benefits on telly last night.

He gets £56k (I think it was that much) a year total, for rent, food and all else he is supposed to need, and is getting slaughtered by all and sundry. 

In your opinion, if they wanted to expose the amounts that some people claim, why didn't they take their trusty cameras to the west London mansion where an immigramt is getting £104k a year just for his rent, PLUS all his living expenses.
Report For the benefit of Mr Kite February 4, 2012 1:27 AM GMT
Do you know of ONE black family man who has gone into his local housing office and said 'I don't like it here, it's a poor area' and has been moved to a luxury house?
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 1:28 AM GMT
All I know is that the new law is meant to stop it.  The new law prevents it, irrespective of ethnicity, in direct contradiction to one of your earlier posts.

This is in todays news.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-16880812

What can we generalise from this?  That benefit fraud is wrong.  That is all.

You genuinely are obsessed with race, it plainly is something you think of most of the time.  The vast majority of poeple don't think like that - you will find some that do and no doubt seek their company - but it is very very unusual. 

So no, I dont walk around with a pocket full of examples of every type of political annoyance with a spread sheet and colour chart of the miscreants.  Thats your life, and I have no intention to emulate it.
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 1:47 AM GMT
For the benefit of Mr Kite
04 Feb 12 01:27   
Do you know of ONE black family man who has gone into his local housing office and said 'I don't like it here, it's a poor area' and has been moved to a luxury house?



Yes, the somali man in the mansion on £2k a week rent.
Or I wouldn't ask, would I.

And he allegedly owes his previous landlord £7k, as the DHSS paid him, not the landlord.

And he left the house in a state of disrepair.

Happy now ?
Report sibaroni February 4, 2012 1:51 AM GMT
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23855146-we-cant-move-pound-2000-a-week-benefits-family-until-the-rules-change.do

Reading this, the story is over a year and a half old and the new rules are specifically aimed at ending such arrangements.

Happy now?
Report twomatchpoints February 4, 2012 2:12 AM GMT
No.

I'd still like to know how he got in there in the first place.
Report moisok February 4, 2012 4:08 PM GMT
they dont like the truth winkle  keep it up
it is so non pc  to say that govt and councils bend over backwards for newcomers to this country and ignore the idigenous black, asian and white people
problem is all the things right wing knuckle draggers bring up seem to have come true or have been indicators of what is going wrong in our society
smacking, corporal punishment, immigration, scroungers, EU  etc etc
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