Forums
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Comrade_Karla
05 Jul 11 19:48
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Jul 11
| Topic/replies: 2,910 | Blogger: Comrade_Karla's blog
1. Capitalism has clearly failed. It's a system built upon the exploitation of anyone regardless of any social or environmental hazard. It's time to reverse this. Human-beings and the environment first, profit last. All banks must be closed in their present model and replaced by the Banco Sur model, no exceptions.
2. End of the Monarchy. Give Elizabeth £1 million and send her on her way, the rest get nothing. Give the people ownership of the Palaces and confiscate all the wealth that they have stolen over the centuries. The people can decide what to do with the properties, hospitals,schools. retirement homes, anything we choose.
3. Children educated at Independent ( fee paying ) schools will be banned from holding any public office for a period of 2 Parliaments. To be reviewed in 10 years. All public office positions will be for 2 terms only, no more lifetime jobs being a corrupt politician.
4. Introduce PR.
5. Abolish the House of Lords, withdraw and make redundant all associated titles.
6. Close every tax loophole there is. Profit made in this country is subject to taxation here. Confiscate any business that refuses to comply and give it to a Cooperative that will happily comply.
7. Build less bombs and more schools.
8. Invade no more countries, instead employ more Doctors,Teachers,Lecturers, etc etc.
9. Only invest in renewable energy sources, the rest to be phased out as soon as possible.
10. Ban Lobbyists, a parasitical enemy of democracy.



Much more needs adding, but as a work in progress it's possibly a good start. I'm hoping to find some like-minded people on here who believe primarily in Human-Beings rather than profit and right-wing dogma to discuss with further.

All the best

CK.
Pause Switch to Standard View Going forward - solutions.
Show More
Loading...
Report Comrade_Karla June 5, 2013 6:37 PM BST
you are about to get spanked.....with a heavy hand at that.

Seriously, get a grip.

This looks like it's over before it even started since you don't even understand the basics.

The irony of it.

And history teaches us that "Human-Beings that "innovate, progress and help our lives become healthier" do it a lot better when the goal is……..drum roll please……..to make a profit.

No, the indoctrination of the ideology coerces that. Human-Beings are not here to skim and scam off one another, the fact that most don't realise this is simply testimony to the vast re-education that is needed.

Spend some quality time learning the difference between corporatism, fascism  and capitalism and then look me up again.

I already spent some time doing this when I took my Masters. Could you tell me your credentials please? (you tube does not count, by the way).

Capitalism is good.

Afraid not. I will concede it has some merit in theory, but in practice it is always corrupted. The evolved and enlightened are already aware of this but alas we have to wait for the rest of you to catch up. Please will you hurry.
Report snickers June 5, 2013 6:47 PM BST
Any chance?
Report Menelaus June 5, 2013 7:03 PM BST
Very poor effort Karla. You have to dance and wiggle better than that though because I don't think you clued in that you are now debating in the men's league. Your miles away from the Terry thread.

No, the indoctrination of the ideology coerces that. Human-Beings are not here to skim and scam off one another, the fact that most don't realise this is simply testimony to the vast re-education that is needed.

You strung together some fancy words there Karla and I am impressed you didn't trip over while typing the word "indoctrination" (although I must admit my disappointment with you getting "realize" wrong) BUT………capitalism is an economic theory. PERIOD. All this other sh1t you keep spewing about ideology simply shows how confused you really are. It's about private ownership of the means of production with the objective of………..making a profit. NOTHING ideological about that, it's simply good economics and numbers, usually with a dollar sign in front of them. You are also confusing making PROFIT, which without no economic activity can last, with skimming and scamming.

I already spent some time doing this when I took my Masters. Could you tell me your credentials please? (you tube does not count, by the way).

A masters in basket weaving will get you no where with me here Karla, neither is trying to impress me with credentials. I'll take just plain old good common sense and the ability to think for yourself any day over credentials. For the record though, since you ask, I have a degree in applied psychology and a degree in economics. Who knew?Silly

Afraid not. I will concede it has some merit in theory, but in practice it is always corrupted. The evolved and enlightened are already aware of this but alas we have to wait for the rest of you to catch up. Please will you hurry.

There's no reason to hurry, good things come to those who wait. You'll have to be patient while I educate you. Capitalism is NOT corrupted, crony capitalism and corporatism are, a huge difference which evidently you know little about.

This was over before it started, Karla.

Capitalism is good.
Report snickers June 5, 2013 7:15 PM BST
At least you got an answer!
Report Eeternaloptimist June 5, 2013 10:17 PM BST
No, the indoctrination of the ideology coerces that. Human-Beings are not here to skim and scam off one another, the fact that most don't realise this is simply testimony to the vast re-education that is needed.

LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report lfc1971 June 6, 2013 12:45 AM BST
It is necessary to have a class system if you are  to have new ideas in science, technology and the arts.
The important thing is that the class system must be strong but notexclusive. It is almost impossible to have
a new scientific or artistic idea in a country without this.
Report lfc1971 June 6, 2013 12:54 AM BST
The internet surprisingly will mean that people will become less inventive in western and liberal countries.
Countries that allow the internet but have strict censorship of certain sites will have an advantage and
are likely to create the new ideas and inventions
Report Gnarley June 6, 2013 3:15 AM BST
Menelaus     04 Jun 13 17:33 
1. Capitalism has clearly failed. It's a system built upon the exploitation of anyone regardless of any social or environmental hazard. It's time to reverse this. Human-beings and the environment first, profit last. All banks must be closed in their present model and replaced by the Banco Sur model, no exceptions.

This underlined bit is Ms. K's bit - I would have made it a different colour (grey) if I knew how. The following is Mr. M's riposte

Look around, you might just notice that the USSR is no longer with us and China had gone hyper-capitalist. While the good old USA with it's mighty capitalistic dollar still rules that world. Which system really failed?

Capitalism is mainly reason why we enjoy the standard of living we do today, all the way from innovations that make our life easier and more comfortable, to medical advances that give us a better chance at birth and later help those ailing with diseases prolong their life. Framing capitalism as a system build on  exploitation is not only shortsighted, it's inaccurate.

The problem today is not capitalism, it's the lack of capitalism. For starters, in true capitalism entities are allowed to fail, there is risk and reward not just reward. Profits should be privatized but so should all the losses. Government should not pick winners and losers, the free market should. Interest rates should be set by the free market and reflect risk of default, not dictated by central banks. Money should be backed by tangible assets, not conjured out of thin air and handed to the friends of the money cartel. I can go on here but I hope you get the point.

Banks are not the problem, fractional reserve lending is. If you are going to comment on the ills of banking, as a minimum you should understand what banking is and how money enters an economy. Throwing a name around like Banco del Sur buys you nothing with me on here.


Mr. M.
Before I start there is no snidey dig at the end of this.

That is a magnificent post and one that I agree with in its' almost entirety. (Only because I have no clue what fractional reserve lending is!).

What would happen if the UK Govt. of the day applied a full on capitalstic approach (as you slightly outline above, risk/reward vs' risk/failure) and other nations, say within the EU, didn't play by the same set of rules?

Would the Uk be nett winners, losers or would the others policies have no effect?

Despite your thoughts of who I may be, this is a genuine question, and one that I have no intention of replying to in anythig other than a kindly fashion.

Regards
Gnarley
Happy
Report Java June 6, 2013 9:03 AM BST
"Human-Beings are not here to skim and scam off one another, the fact that most don't realise this is simply testimony to the vast re-education that is needed."

You do realise that communism has been tried in many countries and failed miserably don't you?
Report Java June 6, 2013 9:04 AM BST
"I will concede it (capitalism) has some merit in theory, but in practice it is always corrupted"

I guess you have me there in that there was never any corruption under communist regimes was there?  LaughLaughLaugh
Report Dr Crippen June 6, 2013 9:35 AM BST
"Human-Beings are not here to skim and scam off one another''

That's exactly what the socialists do, they take from the productive and give to the unproductive, which encourages more of the latter.

The whole public sector is looked on as a sort of job club for the educated classes, paid for by the over taxed productive workers in private companies.
That's the real world of skimming and scamming, and we're all poorer for it except those why ride on the public sector gravy train.
Report Dr Crippen June 6, 2013 9:38 AM BST
I guess you have me there in that there was never any corruption under communist regimes was there?

Absolutely
A system like communism can't be anything other than corrupt.
Once accountability goes out of the window they can do as they please.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 11:40 AM BST
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

One of these days you should consider stopping to self-destruct by continuing this Gnarley/chatlame (and whoever else) alter ego charade. You've lost a lot of credibility on here as a result of it and have done yourself a lot of harm. Everyone knows.

fractional reserve banking

You can't put up the long (Java is right) posts that I keep putting up on here on a daily basis and not let your fingers gets ahead of your brain on occasion. Everyone else knew what I meant except you evidently who saw it as an opportunity to score a point.

Glad you liked the rest of the post though, I hope you are getting something out of all this.
Report Eeternaloptimist June 6, 2013 11:46 AM BST
Melly

I know what fractional reserve banking is. Not everybody does. Gnarley clearly doesn't and has asked you politely a reasonable question. For once stop being a priik, put your stupidly wrong notion aside about who he is and answer his question. Or keep your head up your own arse refuse to learn the lesson I've taught you and keep making the same mistakes.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 11:52 AM BST
Sometimes you hit a point where you either change or self destruct.”
― Sam Stevens


You are waaaay past the point of no return.
Report Eeternaloptimist June 6, 2013 11:58 AM BST
And you are like a stuck record. Which is why you bored me on tradefair and why you are boring me now.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 12:05 PM BST
Get a life, one involving flesh and blood real people, not the fantasy world you have created in your disturbed mind and constantly try to foist on everyone on here, you'll may just discover that things are not as boring.

Mental illness is a serious disease. Get some help and give yourself some peace.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 12:05 PM BST
you'll = you
Report Eeternaloptimist June 6, 2013 12:18 PM BST
Mental illness is a serious problem and sometimes one with serious consequences. So lets explore this a little. Either I do indeed suffer from mental illness or I don't and you are are very wrong and a complete ar5ehole to be looking to score such cheap points. However, lets suggest that it was the former. Given the profound and sometimes catastrophically debilitating nature of the problem and the ramifications what kind of person does it make you that you would be seeking to twist the knife so callously?

Either way it all points one way. You're an ar5ehole. Then you and I always knew that didn't we Melly? Laugh
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 12:21 PM BST
I have no idea why you are still so bitter, I apologized to you before on a number of occasions.

It's inexcusable for me with my background not to have picked up on it earlier, but had I realized you had mental issues I would have never turned you over so bad.

But it is what it is and you need to get over it. Stop torturing yourself and give yourself some peace. 

It was just your bad luck running into me on these forums.  You are a dwarf who thought himself a giant on these forums, selling fantasy and deception to all those naive enough to fall for the con game, until one day you decided to………look up.











































Get help.
Report Comrade_Karla June 6, 2013 12:26 PM BST
(although I must admit my disappointment with you getting "realize" wrong)

Realise is English, realize is American. Even a simpleton should know that.

A masters in basket weaving will get you no where with me here Karla,


Nowhere is one word, not two.


All this other sh1t you keep spewing about ideology simply shows how confused you really are.

Actually I believe it shows how totally indoctrinated you are, totally unable and unwilling to look at anything beyond what you have been conditioned to think. The view you hold has been shrewdly imposed upon you and you are unable to shake free. Pity really.



It's about private ownership of the means of production with the objective of………..making a profit. NOTHING ideological about that,

Not only is this a stupid thing to write it is clearly factually wrong. Every political or economic tendency entails an ideology, that is a matter of fact, not opinion. And I have told you that this corrupt system is rotten to its very core and will be changed to serve the many rather than the few.



For the record though, since you ask, I have a degree in applied psychology and a degree in economics. Who knew?

Should we take a forum poll on how many people believe that? Lol.


Capitalism is NOT corrupted, crony capitalism and corporatism are, a huge difference which evidently you know little about.



I know much about the above and the reality is one leads to the other as sure as night follows the day. As an economic system and as an ideology capitalism has failed, it can do little else by design.


This was over before it started

Given the level of indoctrination that afflicts you and your inability and unwillingness to think independently, critically and morally I am in agreement with you on that last line.
Report clive82 June 6, 2013 12:27 PM BST
"It was just your bad luck running into me on these forums."

What on earth are you going on about?

Why not, before hitting 'post reply' try doing a quick 'Does this make me sound like a total w*nker check.'
Report Java June 6, 2013 12:41 PM BST
"As an economic system and as an ideology capitalism has failed"

Are you suggesting communism has been a success?

And please don't reply that we haven't tried "real" communism as most lefties do, because if you say that then it is equally true that we haven't tried "real" capitalism.

Could it be that both systems fail simply because most humans are selfish greedy idiots?
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 12:53 PM BST
Karla, I see a lot of empty words there an you waving your arms up over your head shouting "indoctrination, indoctrination, indoctrination" but that I don't see a morsel of evidence that capitalism is not an economic theory and that it is not responsible for the standard of living you enjoy today.

Capitalism is an economy theory, not an ideology. You are an indoctrinated idiot if you don't know or understand that.

Capitalism is why your standard of living is what it is today. You are an indoctrinated idiot if you think otherwise, or if you think profit is bad.

Capitalism is not corrupted, crony capitalism and corporatism might be. You are an indoctrinated moron if you don't understand the difference or think that "one leads to the other".

All the other incomprehensible sh1t you keep repeating about thinking critically and morally is the stuff of ignorant idiots when they can not refute someone's argument and resort to bandying about abstract sh1t.

Capitalism is an economic theory. It's an economic model that advocates the private ownership of the means of production with the objective of………..making a profit. Without PROFIT no economic activity can last. You enjoy the standard of living you do today because entrepreneurs and innovators brought their ideas to life to MAKE A PROFIT

Only indoctrinated dumbed down idiots (yes Karla, the left can be dumbed too) still think that any other economic system, or an ideology accomplished that without a shred of evidence to prove it.

And no, I have no intention to continue this for two thousand posts where one the one hand I post facts and you on the other continue to post "blah blah blah indoctrination blah blah blah can not think critically blah blah blah indoctrination blah blah blah indoctrination"

This was over before it started.
Report Comrade_Karla June 6, 2013 1:11 PM BST
I'm flattered that you are reduced to plagiarizing me so much. Happy


Please note I used the American spelling rather than the English one as it seemed to confuse you earlier.


Over indeed, but it never really started.

Thanks.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 1:21 PM BST
I'll take that to mean you finally decided that the best approach was to wave the white flag and retreat.

About the smartest thing you ever did on here.
Report Comrade_Karla June 6, 2013 1:26 PM BST
I am sure the forum can see it is you that has been constantly factually wrong and therefore retreated. I think you're a bit of a flat earther so I won't be wasting too much time putting you straight.

The best advice I can give you is to stop plagiarizing me and don't fly too close to the sun.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 1:41 PM BST
I don't know what it is about this forum but it seems that more and more posters are making a habit of humiliating themselves and then calling it......victory.

Very disturbing.Wink
Report Eeternaloptimist June 6, 2013 1:50 PM BST
Indeed it is. The lack of insight from the king of pyrrhic victories is staggering though. Imaginary ones at that.

As for further comment I think clive sums it up best.
Report Menelaus June 6, 2013 1:54 PM BST
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report conspiracywackjob June 6, 2013 1:57 PM BST
(s)he's trying to build this up now!.

this is sick!

ten k views or bust!

ha ha
Report RickiBobby June 6, 2013 4:53 PM BST
The Queen is one of the most positive thinks in Britain plus she creates enormous net profits for the UK.
Agree with 5,6 and 9.
Report snickers June 6, 2013 6:45 PM BST
Karla, it must be some answer you're working on... If you would rather accept your post was a little too general then so be it.

10. Ban Lobbyists, a parasitical enemy of democracy.

Are you proposing banning unions?
Report Eeternaloptimist June 6, 2013 7:33 PM BST
Crackers - The person who always answers questions and addressed the issues. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Comrade_Karla July 2, 2013 5:18 PM BST
Are you proposing banning unions?

No, they would be exempted.
Report snickers July 2, 2013 7:13 PM BST
Why would you exempt the unions, if you believe groups financing parties to gain influence are the 'parasitical enemy of democracy.' How do you differentiate them from other lobbyists?
Report Comrade_Karla July 2, 2013 7:26 PM BST
Unions operate in an open, honest and transparent way. They act in the interest of the many rather then the few.

Professional lobbyists operate in a corrupt, immoral and secretive way. They act in the interest of the few against the many.

Whatever your job is today, you would have a lesser salary and poorer working conditions were it not for the Unions of yesterday. Never forget that.
Report snickers July 2, 2013 8:36 PM BST
Not in Falkirk they don't.

As suspected the reason it took you so long to answer is because your sound bite is short of any principle beyond partisan point scoring. Take your rose tinted specs off, either you're in favour of groups lobbying parties or you are not. If we start allowing luddites like you to pick and choose which groups are on the approved list we'll be in even more of a mess then currently.

The union's are largely irrelevant today hence why they throw money around in a desperate bid to buy influence. Keep trading on alleged past glories Karla and maybe you can eek out an existence for another generation Comrade! If nothing else you serve the purpose of reminding people what the alternative is.
Report Comrade_Karla July 2, 2013 8:53 PM BST
My logic cannot be denied.
You do not rebut, you bluster.
You are irrelevant.
Report snickers July 2, 2013 9:18 PM BST
My logic cannot be denied

Hope this is tongue in cheek, not even the lunatic lefty fringe can be this conceited, surely.

You do not rebut, you bluster

Does your response constitute a rebuttal in your world? You seem to be the one impaled on their own logic.

You are irrelevant

To the dwindling numbers of cretinous beret wearing loons, I sincerely hope so.
Report Comrade_Karla July 2, 2013 10:07 PM BST
It is a fact, not tongue in cheek.

That is what needs to happen and it cannot happen soon enough for me.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 2, 2013 10:23 PM BST
Unions operate in an open, honest and transparent way.

Is that a compliment to Lady Thatcher there comrade? After all unions now operate in an open, honest and transparent way because she began the process of making them do so. Prior to her union reforms many unions were anything but open, honest and transparent.
Report Comrade_Karla July 2, 2013 10:36 PM BST
Oh my, here he is again. It was over 2000 posts on the other thread before he yielded and ran. Let's hope it's not so many on this one.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 3, 2013 12:43 AM BST
And your answer is?
Report snickers July 3, 2013 1:01 PM BST
Hope your patience matches your optimism EO. It took her 5 weeks to answer a fairly basic question from me. And after all that time I just got some pompous garbage about how she cannot be questioned.

I had been under the misapprehension that CK was an insightful (if misguided) poster. Turns out she's just another rabble rouser who blurts out whatever she's read in the latest pamphlet, and is then unable to defend her assertions under the most mild of critiques.

"My logic cannot be denied" What a twit!
Report Eeternaloptimist July 3, 2013 5:27 PM BST
Don't forget she always answers the question and addresses the issue. She told us. Laugh
Report Comrade_Karla July 4, 2013 5:34 PM BST
I did not respond to your question initially as it was clearly stupid, pointless and rhetorical. I always answer in full as Mr Eeternal has told you unless I consider the question to be as I just described. Unfortunately on this forum which is inhabited by the last few extreme right-whingers around there are many such questions. As I told you my logic cannot be denied and you respond with faux indignation and name calling which is a typical trait of your kind.

Mr Bozo, my answer is that Unions operate in an open, honest and transparent way. I thank your heroine for nothing. I will not discuss the deceased or her soon to be deceased policies,notwithstanding the need to fix what she broke they are simply not relevant. I know that you like to discuss the past ( empire, slavery, wars, the good old days ) but the enlightened, evolved and intelligent are busy preparing the way for a new tomorrow that consigns your failing, cruel, exploitative and coercing ideology to the dustbin of history.
Report snickers July 4, 2013 6:26 PM BST
Lets discuss the present then Karla. If the unions are so transparent, honest and open why has Tom Watson felt the need to resign today following the Falkirk debacle? Clearly this is a topical matter which brings your logic into question.

Also unless you believe Trade Unions do not Lobby government (which would somewhat undermine your earlier comments on their achievements) then your sweeping claim about lobbyists looks a bit silly doesn't it and further makes your confidence in your logic look a little overstated.

(Not sure anything posted here is "clearly stupid" or "pointless" but if you're pride allows, feel free to use those instead of "challenging" and "undermining")
Report Comrade_Karla July 4, 2013 7:22 PM BST
I am not up to speed yet with the Falkirk situation and in any case any isolated incident is not relevant to the overall good that Unions do when representing the many versus the few, a point you failed to address.

I answered you why Unions would be exempted and that logic cannot be denied. You seek to "argue" for the sake of it with poorly thought out straw-man arguments which make you appear foolish. You resort to name calling, a tried and failed strategy of the right-wingers on here.

In conclusion, you actually say nothing, just whine a little.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 4, 2013 7:27 PM BST
Comrade

You run nearly as much as Melly. You really should have just said you answer the questions you want to and avoid the difficult ones. That way you wouldn't have left yourself open to as much ridicule. I know you must be used to that but I feel guilty hurting such a clearly inferior intellect.
Report snickers July 4, 2013 7:44 PM BST
Your answers really are a source of disappointment, though I enjoy the comical scolding for name calling immediately after your own childish barbs!!

You claim

They act in the interest of the many rather then the few

Tell me how do the FBU, PCS or NFU act in the interest of the many over the interests of their narrow membership? How do their lobbying activities differ to that of the RSPCA, NSPCC or Amnesty International?
Report Eeternaloptimist July 4, 2013 7:54 PM BST
They don't snickers and I'm part of the fire service so I have some inside knowledge there.
Report snickers July 4, 2013 8:08 PM BST
I suspect I'm flogging a deeply flawed if not quite dead horse to be honest EO.

My money is on further bluster and avoidance combined (without a hint of irony) with a comically misplaced aloofness and arrogance.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 4, 2013 8:29 PM BST
That's why we enjoy her company. Laugh
Report Comrade_Karla July 4, 2013 9:20 PM BST
You right-whingers seem to have this never ending ability to take a perfectly reasonable point and attempt to take it away on some obscure and pointless tangent.

The point is very simple, the lobbyists that are parasitical enemies of democracy, that seek to change regulations and taxation policy,etc etc through stuffed brown envelopes will be banned. Anyone seeking to discuss with Government through non corrupt methods and who is acting with a sense of fairness, morality and for the common good will not be banned as they are not considered lobbyists per se.

All so simple possibly even you two simpletons will be able to comprehend.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 4, 2013 10:35 PM BST
I fully comprehend your point comrade. I just think it is muddled as with much of your thinking.
Report snickers July 4, 2013 10:42 PM BST
Well it took 6 weeks but finally CK sees sense and goes into full face-saving reverse gear.

Perhaps I'm being unfair, now I understand your comment "Ban Lobbyists, a parasitical enemy of democracy" should have read "Ban illegal lobbyists..." I full heartedly agree. I'd misunderstood your position to be the banning of the wider lobbying industry who follow the laws and regulations governing their activities.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 4, 2013 10:44 PM BST
Laugh
Report Comrade_Karla July 5, 2013 11:24 AM BST
My position has not changed in 2 years. Many tactics and methods used today by lobbyists are actually "within the rules" but are clearly wrong and need modifying. In short they should be banned, this does not mean banning decent groups from speaking to Government in a moral, common interest way that doesn't involve financial reward.

It's a very simple point where the logic cannot be denied, but you and Mr Bozo seem to want to split hairs over it and still seem confused. I don't know how to simplify the point further. This reminds me a little of when Mr (ran for the hills) Java and Mr (don't know him from Adam) Eeternal didn't understand the function or necessity of a PR department. I tried my best to assist them to understand but they just didn't get it.

Poor souls. Sad
Report Eeternaloptimist July 5, 2013 11:47 AM BST
Laugh
Report snickers July 5, 2013 8:52 PM BST
Karla if this was a comic routine I wouldn't be able to fault your execution and timing. Unfortunately we all know it is not.

On the very day you are seeking to hold out the unions (en masse) as paradigms of virtue we have none other then the leader of the Labour party reporting the largest union (his own biggest donor) to the police for investigation of electoral fraud! Rather then attack this explicit and topical attack on democracy you continue to focus your blinkered vision on lawful lobbying groups who no doubt happen to pursue legitimate agendas that you happen to disapprove of.

So unless you've not read a newspaper, listened to the radio or watched TV in the last week why don't you stop avoiding the elephant in the room (which is trampling all over your argument's credibility) and give us your view on whether you feel Unite's actions in Falkirk have been "open, honest and transparent"
Report Comrade_Karla July 8, 2013 11:56 AM BST
lawful lobbying groups who no doubt happen to pursue legitimate agendas that you happen to disapprove of.

Oh dear, such willful naivety. He must think that the people acting to have Fiji reinstated into the Commonwealth were acting honestly or that former ministers that considered themselves to be like 'taxi's on a rank' is acceptable and that George and Peter on a Russians yacht is just a get together. Not to mention countless other corrupt acts that such rogues engage in on an almost daily basis. In a way you kind of have to admire this willful delusion, hair splitting and diversion that the right engage in so as to avoid the real issues. Or maybe not... Tsk.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 8, 2013 12:23 PM BST
I'm surprised you have any comment to make without an investigation Crackers. Laugh
Report moisok July 8, 2013 12:25 PM BST
the fake's not interested - her type only want to cover up the mess ups her so called town councils and officers have been making for decades - clwyd being amongst the latest after the muslim gangs, child murders, indifference from social workers etc etc etc  - they have to preserve their positions EO
Report Eeternaloptimist July 8, 2013 12:34 PM BST
Crackers must be off sharpening her elbows so she can safeguard her position at the trough. Laugh
Report snickers July 8, 2013 3:53 PM BST
Woeful Karla!

Surely if like Ed you are unable to craft a response on the current scandal then you would be best saying nothing at all rather than continuing to pretend it isn't happening.

To paraphrase, it’s better to stay quiet and let people think your arguments are un-credible than to continue posting and confirm it for them!
Report Java July 8, 2013 5:44 PM BST
Karla hiding like a coward and refusing to answer questions - has this ever happened before?  Oh yes it has, on the PR department thread.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 8, 2013 8:44 PM BST
On most threads the Banco Sur Bullshiitter posts on. Laugh
Report Comrade_Karla July 9, 2013 11:11 AM BST
Woeful Karla!

Simply waiting for all the facts to be available. A sensible and prudent measure, not to mention one that I afforded that hypocrite Mr Eeternal.



Karla hiding like a coward and refusing to answer questions - has this ever happened before

Goodness me, he is back from the hills. After fleeing the J Terry thread and becoming known as Mr (run for the hills) Java he has the audacity to spew that. What a bozo. And please don't bother asking once again "what have I ran from this time" as this is now your MO. Lay low for a while before returning. Tsk.
Report Java July 9, 2013 11:44 AM BST
You're wriggling like a worm in this thread.  Just like you did in the PR department thread of course.

As for the Terry thread my conclusions are as they always are.  Terry is likely a racist in my opinion from the video I saw.  The court found him not guilty after reviewing all evidence. The FA found him guilty after reviewing all evidence.  The FA has a history of incompetence.

The fact that you like to go round and round in circles for your own vanity on that thread, doesn't mean that I have "run away".  Try bored.
Report snickers July 9, 2013 12:27 PM BST
Are we now to add hypocritical to blinkered and floundering?

Just below you are accusing me of willful naivety citing the Mercer case. It would appear you are only too happy to comment on matters in advance of the full facts becoming available when it suits your partisan viewpoint. Or has the parliamentary watchdog forwarded an advance copy of their findings in respect of the Mercer case to you?

I've seen some pretty bad examples of people's arguments unraveling on here but you are taking it to new heights Karla. Stop digging would be my advice.
Report Java July 9, 2013 12:46 PM BST
And this is all before Karla has heard the disasterous news that her beloved Unions now stand accused of forwarding their own members' interests at the expense of black candidates.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2358562/Union-stitch-forcing-black-Labour-candidates-Party-suspended-selection-council-seats-London-boroughs-claims-discrimination.html
Report Java July 9, 2013 12:48 PM BST
And even better, it seems one of the local candidates was sacrificed at the expense of...........the lovely Harriet Harman's son LaughLaughLaugh
Report moisok July 9, 2013 12:51 PM BST
no no  Java  this cannot be true -the labour party is above all that sort of self interest and nepotism.  You must be drunk again.  I have this on good authority from my friend Dianne!!!!!
Report moisok July 9, 2013 12:57 PM BST
Ps 
In all honesty this was going on at any time I can recall in a myriad of ward, constituency, and district party meetings.  In some you would get a load of union members suddenly turn up. In another there was an asian mafia. Normal ward meeting would be 10 then on an important election evening for positions, candidates etc etc  an attendance of 100 - mainly asian - would appear and vote for the pig in the poke etc as instructed by a local person of influence etc etc. 
Now there is even more central control and diktats - some socialist Labour party ha ha - I turned my back on them a long time ago!!!
Report snickers July 9, 2013 1:01 PM BST
But we are assured everything they do is fair, open and transparent.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 9, 2013 1:17 PM BST
CRACKERS.


























































SMASHED.


























































SMELLING SALTS REQUIRED. LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report Comrade_Karla July 9, 2013 3:41 PM BST
Try bored.

Which translates as ran for the hills after your ridiculous position was dismantled. Thanks.

I've seen some pretty bad examples of people's arguments unraveling on here

The position of Mr (run for the hills) Java and Mr (I don't know him from Adam) Eeternal being the best examples.

I will comment fully on Falkirk when all the facts are known and not before. Nothing controversial or "unraveling" there.

Maybe time to try those smelling salts yourself, Mr Eeternal...

Happy
Report Java July 9, 2013 4:15 PM BST
No. BORED.

You keep starting the thread again for your own vanity, and then yourself and EO cover the same ground again.  And again.  And again.

It's tedious I'm afraid.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 9, 2013 5:19 PM BST
Do you know Griffin Crackers? Have him round for tea at comrade castle do you? How about met him socially? Nope? Didn't think so. You don't know him from Adam either then you clown. Wink
Report snickers July 9, 2013 8:18 PM BST
I'm not sure what I find more amusingly disturbing. Labour's arrogant claim to having a monopoly on the political views of working people or the description today by Union barons that giving someone the option to opt in rather then opt out of support of Ed's Labour party as an 'attack on the trade union movement.'

Should we assume everybody is in favour of the current government at the next election unless they opt out by voting for an opposition party?
Report Comrade_Karla July 9, 2013 9:55 PM BST
You don't know him from Adam either then

Oh dear, retreated to the sophistry dance have we. Tsk.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 9, 2013 10:09 PM BST
I know his political representation as I do Cameron's, Clegg's and Milliband's. I don't like much of what I see. I don't know a thing about him as a person other than he has a wonky eye. I don't care to either. Ergo, I don't know him from Adam.
Report moisok July 9, 2013 11:45 PM BST
just in case you didn't know
there are no socialists in the Labour party
and the Labour party has never really been socialist
Mainly just helping to help manage capital in a different way to tory or liberal govts
hey ho!!
Report snickers July 10, 2013 9:38 AM BST
People criticise the Tories for carping on about Europe but to be fair there is very little else for them to discuss as their agenda is helpfully being carried through by others.

The SNP are doing a far better job than them on persuading the public of the need for the Union.

Lib Dems puppet ministers are busy reforming the welfare state and reducing taxes.

And Labour are seemingly celebrating the deconstruction of Trade Union influence (going far beyond what even Mrs T contemplated)

All we need now is Plaid Cymru to support the reintroduction of capital punishment and the PM can sit back with the satisfaction of knowing despite not having an overall majority, his positions have become the centre ground of British politics. Quite an achievement for a Toff with no substance.
Report bongo July 17, 2013 9:56 PM BST
Looks like the Coalition are attempting to make lobbying more open ( don't see the need for adding words like 'honest' and 'transparent' as it's just saying the same thing 3 times )
.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10186187/Lobbyists-who-keep-their-clients-secret-will-be-prosecuted.htm

I have to admit to a little liking for the Lib Dems - they do teamwork and cooperation, occasionally when it really hurts them too. Realistically this initiative which Clegg gets credit for in the article is about as good as we can expect.
Report northernlad5 July 18, 2013 1:54 AM BST
So bongo you admire the indefensible Lib/Dems didn't just promise no tuition fees for students (were many of their votes came from) they signed a pledge with full media attention.

O,but then invited into power that pledge meant nothing!
Report bongo July 18, 2013 7:51 AM BST
nlad5 - they didn't win the election, they came 3rd, it was in the news.
They could have been obstructive to the Conservatives and gone with opposing tuition fees - it would still have carried as Conservative MPs make a majority in England which is the area affected. It created a bad image of them, and it has hurt their ratings.
They realised 'there was no money' and went for cooperation instead and got some of their agenda through ( mainly higher personal tax thresh-holds, the AV referendum which failed ). That's politics.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 18, 2013 10:47 AM BST
The tribalists like mad lad can't get a simple point bongo. Coalition involves compromise. The Lib Dems with a relatively weak hand have done pretty well on behalf of the poorest in society and in doing so gave deadheads like northern monkey a stick with which to beat them. They were the bigger party here doing what they thought was in the national interest.
Report northernlad5 July 18, 2013 12:05 PM BST
Don't be ridiculous, they made a pledge! Not just a usual manifesto commitment, a pledge!
Like those who voted for them, I took that as a guarantee that whether we were invaded by North Korea, or the Thames boiled through global warming, they would not raise tuition fee's.
One thing that should not have been negotiable with the Tories was that pledge  - they didn't make pledges over personal tax or the AV ref. They did make a pledge over tuition fees and come hell or high water if they had any honour should have stuck to it.

As for the absolutely pathetic - “When we got into power we found there was no money, Labour had spent it!”

LaughLaughLaugh


Everybody knew there was no money. If the thicko Tories and  Lib/Dems didn't, all they had to do was look it up on wiki. Having been in deficit since before 2000, there wouldn’t be would there, that is why it is called a deficit - thick ****s - what did they expect a secret hoard?

LaughLaughLaugh
Report Java July 18, 2013 12:22 PM BST
Do you understand the concept of coalition?
Report snickers July 18, 2013 12:26 PM BST
Their 'pledge' was roundly rejected by the electorate you luddite.

Politicians make empty promises and stupid statements if they think it will garner support. The 'end of boom and bust' and 'we will be whiter then white' spring to mind as examples.

The absolutely pathetic reference you refer to was penned by the Labour Chief Secretary to the Treasury. What a damning indictment of Labour's profligacy.
Report northernlad5 July 18, 2013 12:39 PM BST
Well Labour Politicians don't ass licker!

Liam Byrne's note was a joke as everybody accept the Tories & Lib/Dems (apparently) knew there was not a pot to p*** in!

...and as if any politician would state -

"We will be whiter that white"

They would be labelled a right racist t*** if they did, you thick dick 'ed!

Angry
Report Eeternaloptimist July 18, 2013 2:01 PM BST
mad lad

Faced with a stark choice would you opt to stick with your pledge and help university students or would you help the poorest in society?
Report clive82 July 18, 2013 7:58 PM BST
Oh yes how we all laugh at Liam's little joke. Let's see if the electorate are still chuckling about it in 2015.
Report bongo July 18, 2013 8:41 PM BST
The Conservatives in the 2010 manifesto said they would reduce income tax from 50% back to 40% for those earning £150k plus per year.

They didn't win outright - the Lib Dems said we can work out a deal , and it's now gone back to 45%.

It matters not a jot whether Lima Byrne's comment 'i'm afraid to tell you there is no more money' is a joke or not. In the last year of the Labour Government which was 09/10 the govt spent £1.31 for every £1 collected in taxes - the biggest overspend since the end of WW2, and by a considerable margin. The size of which only became fully clear in the last few months of the Brown premiership when senior civil servants were requesting written compulsion to spend money the country didn't have.

The Conservatives didn't win. The Lib Dems took the view that they won most seats and most votes, and went for cooperation and working as a team.

There are very few examples ever of individuals making a lot of difference on their own. Whether it is Jobs and Woz, Armstrong Collins and Aldrin, Rolls and Royce, Crick and Watson, Maertens and his shoe-making mate Doctor Fuchs, Tony Gordon and Robin, Clough and Taylor, team work is what has taken the human race this far. To caring about the environment, journeying into space, and amazing scientific accomplishments, no other species comes close so far. Clegg and Cameron don't rank compared to that lot, but compared to the alternative at the time, which was Gordon on his own, or the alternative now, which is Ed and Alan but no Dave, or Ed and er er er Ed ...

feck it, I was trying to finish that sentence with a flourish, but couldn't. Lack of team work, sitting here on my own waiting for tonight's crumble to be ready. Smiles to the Caithness guy.
Report Eeternaloptimist July 18, 2013 9:53 PM BST
Always finish with a flourish. It can help hide so many imperfections. Wink

























































Some of the time. Laugh
Report snickers July 20, 2013 11:31 AM BST
Isn't the current alternative Len writing the lines and Ed reading them out.
Report snickers July 20, 2013 11:31 AM BST
Isn't the current alternative Len writing the lines and Ed reading them out.
Report snickers August 4, 2013 10:10 AM BST
Brilliant tweet by Ed "Announcing a big vote next year on changes to ensure Labour is a 21st Century party of the people."

Well where to start. Dynamic Ed has announced with great gusto that he will still be pratting about with the internal mechanics of the Labour party in 2014, 12 months before a general election and once Unite have already selected PPCs.

Refreshing to know that 15 years after the rest of us Labour will finally be voting on whether to join the 21st Century. Please somebody have the guts to get rid of this political amoeba. I never thought I'd say it but bring back Gordon over this chump.
Post Your Reply
<CTRL+Enter> to submit
Please login to post a reply.

Wonder

Instance ID: 13539
www.betfair.com