bets with golfjudge and the war machine.

obama's health care plan is also getting ripped to shreads. by his own advisors, scholars, and just about everyone except for his blind followers and of course the paid for house majority. #

http://www.examiner.com/x-7812-DC-SCOTUS-Examiner~y2009m11d18-Harvard-Medical-School-Dean-Opposes-Obamas-Healthcare-Plan-Gives-ObamaCare-a-Failing-Grade

some good links are within the article too.

on some things of course he cant even pay for a majority, so this occurs instead:

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/68CD27DF-477A-4169-B814-3E3191347F0A/

take the time and see how democracy really works.

Don, I thought your mate said you were banned? I am happy not to bicker, so long as you don't make wild, inaccurate accusations about me getting your threads removed or being some shill for Betfair, the EU, New World Order or whatever. If you play that game, I will ignore you. Simple.

The 3 bets we have are, all at evens.

£1000 Obama to win a second term
£5 US military spending to be less in real terms for Obama's first term than it was for Bush's last.
£5 Britain to not join the Euro within two years, which is now probably more like eighteen months.

Nothing has changed with the first position, in that I would confidently back Obama against any mainstream Republican, and that is what this will boil down to. I assure you, lefties around the world are cheering on the likes of the unelectable Palin, and hope Republicans continue to take the positions they have been. It is Goldwater all over again. Obama may even benefit further if as is entirely possible, the Right splits.

Miltary spending is less certain, but the fact he's already abandoned missile defence in Eastern Europe bodes well. Surely, if he were a creature of the Military Industrial Complex, Obama wouldn't have taken away this lucrative venture they've lobbied so hard for? I am certain the UK will not be in the Euro in two years.

As for whether I'm disappointed, not at all. You still think Obama is a socialist, right? Well if you're right about that, then surely a socialist like me would be happy?

Across policy area after area, things are moving in a different direction. On who the tax burden falls upon, infrastructure spending, housing market intervention, consumer protections, pending healthcare reform, fair pay + union rights, things are moving in a clearly different, leftward direction. Again, if this isn't true, then why are the Right so furious?

US foreign policy is changing in relation to most countries, and all international institutions. Just as it changed in the direct opposite direction from January 2001, the direction is being reversed. That is pretty much accepted by foreign policy analysts the world over, and by the govts in question. The political weather on tax havens, on international clearing houses etc has changed markedly as can be seen by various new agreements with such havens. There's a long way to go, but we're moving in the right direction.

One of the things I don't get is how the anti-Obama people imply that Afghanistan is some betrayal from him. He repeatedly talked up this war before winning power. Personally, I think they need to find an exit strategy soon, and hope he backs Joe Biden rather than McChrystal. We'll see.

I'm a realist and never expect perfection from politics, so am always going to have my complaints. I don't like Geithner, and would prefer more distance from Wall Street. At some stage during his Presidency, I would like to see him reverse the opposition to a Tobin Tax. Guantanamo will close, and the trials on the mainland are a step forward, it will just take longer than hoped.

All this stuff is inherited, and its madness to expect everything to change overnight. For 10 months in charge, I think that's a perfectly acceptable return for any leftie.

Zilzal - we'll have to see what finally emerges after the Senate tomorrow. It will inevitably involve some undesirable compromises.

and btw, the "right" - in your eyes the republicans - are visbily furious because they are attempting to jump on the bandwagon and steal the thunder from the grassroots uprising of the people that is underway. the people that are really furious are the people in the street - they have figured out what their representatives are about, and they no longer believe the empty promises that all of them, obama included, continue to make.

and if you didnt notice obama has also lost his popularity majority.

you can bang on about what he "inherited" all you like, and blame bush all you like, but the fact is obama and the dems controlled the house from 06-08 anyway, so it is certainly unfair to keep using inheritance as an excuse.

The Democrats didn't invade Iraq, Afghanistan or create Guantanemo Bay. I have always argued that, had Gore won in 00, none of those would have happened, with the possible exception of Afghanistan.

what you will find out soon enough is that the usa is largely a conservative country.

Its a 50/50 country actually. Words like 'liberal' and 'conservative' are value-laded, and those values change over time. George Bush Snr was certainly viewed as a Conservative throughout his career, yet the Right's philosophy has moved well away from that definition. Therefore, the battle for either side is to win the middle, and from there redefine what the centre is. Same in any country's politics.

Good luck with your 3rd party candidate bets. I hope I get to lay some of them.

i have 80-1 on any third party.

in short like i keep saying it is not about dems v republicans. it is about the people v government. that is what is occurring in the usa. dems and repubs are all in the trough together.

incidentally, i assume you were aware that several of the justice department resigned this week. obama's private attorney is now his top man there (conflict of interest) - that was in the papers, but the fact that several of the other underlings also resigned will be worrying to a man that is now backed into a corner in court.

the people wanted change yes, but not this change. theyve realised that "redistribute the wealth" means communism, the end of property rights (something you seem to overlook conveniently), something they abhor. all the team obama flashy rhetoric is wearing off very quickly and he has become a national joke. in his speech this week on fox, he aired his concerns about the need to reign in spending, yet how much is he spending!? and you know there's another stimulus round the corner... it's comedy gold.

moderate european style no. obama is no moderate - he is far left radical - this is surely obvious now. most that falsely believed he would govern from the centre have realised now, although you dont seem to have done :) so no circles required here..

and it's not that the people are anti government - they are anti BIG government - because they appreicate the corruption and loss of freedoms that comes with it. and this applies to most of the right and independents over there - in fact the vast majority, which as i said earlier refer to themselves as conservative. it's only the 22% liberal base, generally those of lower education and intelligence that buy into the need for big government. of course over here it is quite different, as the british are even more brainwashed than the yanks.

you can deny that usa was set up as a christian conservative country all you like, but that won't change the fact that it is.

Golf

I think that 21st century Social Democracy in no way mirrors the original concept of the ideals it used to do. It now becomes much more Authoritarian and wants all and sundry to conform to its own beliefs, its Plutocratic style and its undemocratic make up has just put people off politics.

We look back in this country to 12 years of a supposedly centre left government to find CCTV rampant, thought police ruling and sleaze rampant, i actually voted New Labour in 1997 so the shame son me as well.

ty zilzal

for better or worse the law in the usa is rooted in christian belief, and will likely return more closely to it in due course imo.

and re obama - jail time for not buying insurance seems extreme to me.

and he calls for a citizens army, as big and well funded as the military.

he has taken spending to whole new levels where taxes will end up being severe.

in addition, he REFUSES to accept any criticism. he refuses to honour his promises to be transparent.

he has overridden property rights ffs!

Golf, you could hardly call their public spending record as right wing, as you couldnt say that social policies re minorities and women were the work of rabid right wingers

i will give you them sidling up to big business though, along with foreign policy

the far left sidles up to big business no?

the far left sidles up to big business no?

In countries governed by the 'far left', i.e. communists, there is no big business to sidle up to. The state is everything.

Zilzal, fair point about the social legislation, but I don't see their spending plans as being particularly left-wing either. As I've pointed out before on here, at the last election, the huge difference on spending between Lab and Con amounted to the grand total of £4BN, and even then the Tories were struggling to make the figures add up. If anyone was anal enough to actually scrutinise the various calls for more spending on this or that area from Tory spokespeople, they would soon realise what a baseless, opportunist position they've taken.

and the way things are going, the state soon will be everything... it has certainly expanded under obama. all about direction remember??

I noticed that you didnt record the "Off the Book" spending re the PPI though!!, Welfare spending has hardly been cut to the bone either, in fact it has ballooned under Labour.

Lets face it the house has been built on sand, and although i agree that the policies of Thatcher didnt help the country in the way that some of her more slavish supporters think, the hard left must take a lot of the blame for making the conditions in the 60s and 70s that led to her being elected.

I noticed that you didnt record the "Off the Book" spending re the PPI though!!,

I'm sure you didn't mean in that way, but 'I' wasn't responsible for it. I, along with the Left like the unions, journalists and politicians like Livingstone, were the only ones complaining about PFI (a Tory invention), in Blair's first term.

Btw, re the Labour legacy of the 60s and 70s, we could also look at the fact that Wilson inherited a dire situation after long Tory rule. There is no simple start and end point.

But the left on the labour benches didnt stop crowing about the schools and hospitals built with it, bit of a double edged sword to claim the credit and disown the debt

the citizen's army business came from his own mouth on telly.

and why can no one see any of his documents/history? why is he fighting this in court? and i dont just mean the birth certificate - why cant people view his thesis, essays and alike?