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says the times (I think) this morning.
why on earth is it better for young people to spend 3 yrs learning an irrelevant subject (and thus denying them 3 yrs of practical medical training/experince) than to enrol non graduates at 18 on nursing training say?
The world has gione mad over qualifications that are not necessary
why on earth is it better for young people to spend 3 yrs learning an irrelevant subject (and thus denying them 3 yrs of practical medical training/experince) than to enrol non graduates at 18 on nursing training say?
The world has gione mad over qualifications that are not necessary
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degress ain't wot they used to be - ten a penny nowadaze.
all the more reason to not inflict them on useful people!!
Shows how worthless a degree is if the people who go into nursing can get them. No offence meant but the girls I went to school with who became nurses and still are werent even capable of A levels in the mid eighties.
not can get them will HAVE to get them Harry!!
do yuo really need to do a dissertation on Chaucer or study something like Politics etc to then to nurse training ?
do yuo really need to do a dissertation on Chaucer or study something like Politics etc to then to nurse training ?
There's a shortage of nurses now, I can't see the sense in making it even harder for people to go into nursing.
Its just another excuse to ship in another load of voters (er I mean immigrants)
You know, the ones who come here to do the jobs our lot cant be bothered to.
No wonder most BNP members are ex labour.
You know, the ones who come here to do the jobs our lot cant be bothered to.
No wonder most BNP members are ex labour.
HarryCrumb 12 Nov 14:20
Shows how worthless a degree is if the people who go into nursing can get them. No offence meant but the girls I went to school with who became nurses and still are werent even capable of A levels in the mid eighties.
Nothing like a good bit of generalisation.
My wife did 3 years of training to become a qualified nurse, not the p*ssed up buffoonery that the pseudo intelectuals at university studying some totally pointless subject engage in.
Once qualified she progressed and is now a sister and has not stopped her education either and is only a few points away from earning her degree.
Shows how worthless a degree is if the people who go into nursing can get them. No offence meant but the girls I went to school with who became nurses and still are werent even capable of A levels in the mid eighties.
Nothing like a good bit of generalisation.
My wife did 3 years of training to become a qualified nurse, not the p*ssed up buffoonery that the pseudo intelectuals at university studying some totally pointless subject engage in.
Once qualified she progressed and is now a sister and has not stopped her education either and is only a few points away from earning her degree.
I was just making the point that 25 years ago a large percentage of nurses were school leavers at 16 who were not suitable for A levels let alone a degree. This law will mean either lots of people being unable to become a nurse or more likely just shows that anyone can get a degree as they are now so simple.
nothing like a bit of generalisation - your wife is clearly NOT typical but at the top of her profession - that does NOT describe the majority does it really - nowt wrong with Harry's statement.
Degrees in nursing include training...i know a girl who's doing one now and she's already on the ward after starting in September.
Instead of usual where I spout shiit like an expert I can comment with a degree (ha ha) of expertise on this subject. Nursing has been moving towards degree status for years and whilst there is nowt wrong with an enquiring mind there is a problem here:
It doesn't automatically follow that degree trained nurses are less caring but the vast majority in my experience had little interest in what I would call the bread and butter stuff involved in nursing.
A nurse should never be unwilling to feed a poorly patient. A well nourished patient is likely to make a fuller recovery more quickly and a nurse who sees what a patient is eating and even how he is feeding can discern quite a lot.
Similarly a nurse should never be afraid to physically turn bed ridden patients over in bed and have a good look at not only the state of their pressure areas but of their skin. That can also tell you a heck of a lot.
In truth I never met a degree trained nurse who didn't consider such tasks beneath them and which they therefore delegated to less qualified members of staff.
I confidently but sadly predict that this will not improve patient care by one jot. I also predict that the profession will be storing up a whole load more people who see themselves as managers rather than nurses though.
It doesn't automatically follow that degree trained nurses are less caring but the vast majority in my experience had little interest in what I would call the bread and butter stuff involved in nursing.
A nurse should never be unwilling to feed a poorly patient. A well nourished patient is likely to make a fuller recovery more quickly and a nurse who sees what a patient is eating and even how he is feeding can discern quite a lot.
Similarly a nurse should never be afraid to physically turn bed ridden patients over in bed and have a good look at not only the state of their pressure areas but of their skin. That can also tell you a heck of a lot.
In truth I never met a degree trained nurse who didn't consider such tasks beneath them and which they therefore delegated to less qualified members of staff.
I confidently but sadly predict that this will not improve patient care by one jot. I also predict that the profession will be storing up a whole load more people who see themselves as managers rather than nurses though.
alfie
Your friend may well be on the ward but she will be what is known as super numery and there is a world of difference between that and traditional training.
Your friend may well be on the ward but she will be what is known as super numery and there is a world of difference between that and traditional training.
Yep, and mean that girls not capable of taking a degree are care workers for ever. We have an obsession with qualifications, written analysis is only a small percentage of the skills required to be a good nurse.
I've stopped laughing now.
degree trained nurses still have to do a lot of placement time. I don't thik it's really necessary but to suggest that nurses with a degree instead of a diploma are less caring is utter shyte.
degree trained nurses still have to do a lot of placement time. I don't thik it's really necessary but to suggest that nurses with a degree instead of a diploma are less caring is utter shyte.
you're a gentleman blackburn - chemo round 2 coming up - she won round one :)
blackburn 12 Nov 15:36
Thats rotten ivor, good luck to the wife
I'll second that.
Thats rotten ivor, good luck to the wife
I'll second that.
evski
It was all Thatcher's fault but yes as a young man I was a nurse. I've also done a bit of boxing so I could quite happily knock the shiit out of you and then bandage you up if you like. :)
It was all Thatcher's fault but yes as a young man I was a nurse. I've also done a bit of boxing so I could quite happily knock the shiit out of you and then bandage you up if you like. :)
Blimey EO, nurse, boxer, barrister, fireman, gardener - you must be about 80
43 and I can still outlift anybody at the gym.
And some of those pensioners are pretty strong I can tell you.
blackburn
I did over a year as a policeman as well. Its uniforms you see. As I was saying a few weeks ago, we were doing a charity car wash at the fire and one of the lads says (in a Caithness accent), "feck me you've done everything except sell shoes you cnunt". He nearly fell over laughing when I told him I did work for Freeman, Hardy and Willis when I was a boy.
I used to play cards with my mates on the Friday night and my best mate used to lose a few quid to me usually and so most Saturday evenings I would be round at his house shouting through the letterbox for him to come and have a look at the new shoes he had bought me. Happy days.
I did over a year as a policeman as well. Its uniforms you see. As I was saying a few weeks ago, we were doing a charity car wash at the fire and one of the lads says (in a Caithness accent), "feck me you've done everything except sell shoes you cnunt". He nearly fell over laughing when I told him I did work for Freeman, Hardy and Willis when I was a boy.
I used to play cards with my mates on the Friday night and my best mate used to lose a few quid to me usually and so most Saturday evenings I would be round at his house shouting through the letterbox for him to come and have a look at the new shoes he had bought me. Happy days.
The ego has landed.
BB, yes, larry said clearly that degree trained nurses are not as caring. It was all better back in his day, you see.
Larry, you really are the most incredible man I've ever heard of. I just wish I could be your friend/ lover/ sparing partner/ ect
BB, yes, larry said clearly that degree trained nurses are not as caring. It was all better back in his day, you see.
Larry, you really are the most incredible man I've ever heard of. I just wish I could be your friend/ lover/ sparing partner/ ect
blackburn
I don't know. It isn't as if I am irascible is it?
I don't know. It isn't as if I am irascible is it?
Although truth be told I haven't ever been sacked. I've just been a bit restless. Wherever I lay my hat. Although I haven't got a hat. :)
evski
I didn't say that all degree nurses were less caring. I said my experience of them suggested to me that their priorities were different from those of traditionally trained nurses and that I had never seen one feeding a patient.
I didn't say that all degree nurses were less caring. I said my experience of them suggested to me that their priorities were different from those of traditionally trained nurses and that I had never seen one feeding a patient.
Nothing to worry about. They will just rename the nursing diploma to nursing degree. This lot in power is good at that!
Best wishes to your misus Ivor, and your goodself, a wretched and vile disease.
Indeed Ivor. Spit in its eye from me as well.
It doesn't automatically follow that [i]degree trained nurses are less caring but the vast majority in my experience had little interest in what I would call the bread and butter stuff involved in nursing.[/i]
Yes evski that was my experience and is a sentiment shared by many nurses of my aquaintance. To be fair they weren't on the whole any worse in bed though.
I know a degree-trained nurse, and can confirm that the only thing she is concerned with is her own career and maximising her income.
The NHS will end up with too many generals and no soldiers.
Young unemployment increases all the time,especially the unskilled. If they cant be a nurse what can they be employed as,surely it is the caring skills that matter and these cant be instilled by classroom learning.
Twenty years of schoolin
an they put you on the day shift.............................
an they put you on the day shift.............................
it was all so much better back in the old days when men were men and you could leave your door unlocked ect ect ect.
Total nonsense as usual, good nurses will now be saddled with paying for degree tuition to go into a profession that is notorirous for being not the best paid.
Half will probably have to give up nursing once they have their degree and become pole dancers to pay for it.
You can still get well trained, professional, caring nurses perfectly capable of coping fine with modern nursing practices without a degree being a necessity.
Half will probably have to give up nursing once they have their degree and become pole dancers to pay for it.
You can still get well trained, professional, caring nurses perfectly capable of coping fine with modern nursing practices without a degree being a necessity.
I know a few nurses with a degree and they all did it whilst working because they did the diploma first. I accept this is not the only way to do it.
Just remember that just because they call it a "degree" doesn't mean it's all classroom. They still have to do a huge number of placements.
Just remember that just because they call it a "degree" doesn't mean it's all classroom. They still have to do a huge number of placements.
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