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...they did not allow poppies to be sold.
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How dare they! Is boycotting enough? You could do better than that, noddy. Wouldn't you like to burn them down for failing to conform?
No I dont think we should break the law. Nor should they be forced to "conform".
Those British who support our armed forces should use their purchasing power to demonstrate what we think of this policy.
Thats all.
Those British who support our armed forces should use their purchasing power to demonstrate what we think of this policy.
Thats all.
The Lawmakers spend all thier time breaking laws
so why not normal people
so why not normal people
We should not let our standards fall as low as those of MPs
Dr J 08 Nov 15:50
I can think of better reasons to boycott Shell...
The poppey situation is enough...................but enlighten us, why more reasons ???
I can think of better reasons to boycott Shell...
The poppey situation is enough...................but enlighten us, why more reasons ???
Exploitation of Developing Countries; paying massive dividends to shareholders rather than passing on savings to customers; partaking in a cartel; not cutting forecourt prices when the cost of a barrel of oil falls.
Poppies should be the last of your worries, imo.
Poppies should be the last of your worries, imo.
Shell stations all franchises. Have you seen what type of 'ethnic' runs these place. Go figure...
All run by the same sort of 'ethnic'?
I find that hard to believe.
Still, I'm sure you know much more about it than me.
I find that hard to believe.
Still, I'm sure you know much more about it than me.
The price fixing is not at the forecourt. Petrol station owners make b*gger all out of the fuel, their profit comes from the shops more than anything.
It is the oil companies selling the fuel to the outlets that are taking the Michael.
It is the oil companies selling the fuel to the outlets that are taking the Michael.
When Dr J refers to shareholders he means the pension funds of all those of us who havent got a taxpayer funded final salary scheme. He always wants to tax these companies more and more even though he fails to understand that they make only tiny amounts in the UK.
Wrong - what concerns me most is that companies like Shell make such high profits from exploiting the natural resources around Africa.
I find that far more troubling that a few mincing lorry drivers blubbling about an extra penny on diesel.
I find that far more troubling that a few mincing lorry drivers blubbling about an extra penny on diesel.
Hmm. The natural resources of Africa. Yep, some. And every where else. If we are going to use oil, it is going to come from somewhere. Now if by boycotting Shell you are going somewhere else, prey tell me where that oil comes from?
I'm happy for the African oil to be used, but the amount of profit non-African companies make from this enterprise is immoral, imo.
Dr J - if we stop drilling for oil in Africa will the Chineese stop as well? If not we may as well carry on.
And if everyone stops drilling who will get the oil out of the ground? Africans?
And if everyone stops drilling who will get the oil out of the ground? Africans?
Yes, the Africans should be encouraged and helped to drill for their own oil.
Far better than charitable donations, imo.
Far better than charitable donations, imo.
Dr J 09 Nov 11:50
Wrong - what concerns me most is that companies like Shell make such high profits from exploiting the natural resources around Africa.
This is hypocrisy of the highest order. All this bleating about Africa yet you openly support the one entity whose central policy plank is the deliberate impoverishment of the whole continent.
Price fixing, quotas, Fortress Europe, etc etc. Truly unbelievable.
Wrong - what concerns me most is that companies like Shell make such high profits from exploiting the natural resources around Africa.
This is hypocrisy of the highest order. All this bleating about Africa yet you openly support the one entity whose central policy plank is the deliberate impoverishment of the whole continent.
Price fixing, quotas, Fortress Europe, etc etc. Truly unbelievable.
Dr J-if the Afrians were able to extract oil from the ground don't you think they may have done so by now?
Did the Africans encourage us to drill in the North Sea? Why should we encourage them to do anything they don't want to?
Did the Africans encourage us to drill in the North Sea? Why should we encourage them to do anything they don't want to?
Now now. Europe is not good to Africa indeed, but better than most. You can't influence Europe from the outside. That is the problem you have with this sort of stance chippie, on our own, Britain would be as effective as a chocolate teapot.
if the Afrians were able to extract oil from the ground don't you think they may have done so by now?
ffs, noddys - is your argument now that Africans are genetically incapable of drilling for oil...?
:0
This is getting silly. Why am I the only one who finds it morally unacceptable that rich, Western companies systematically exploit the natural resources of African nations?
Viva the Somalian pirates, imo.
ffs, noddys - is your argument now that Africans are genetically incapable of drilling for oil...?
:0
This is getting silly. Why am I the only one who finds it morally unacceptable that rich, Western companies systematically exploit the natural resources of African nations?
Viva the Somalian pirates, imo.
I don't have to boycott the Shell garage at the A14 roundabout in Huntingdon as I'm already banned.
You can't influence Europe from the outside. That is the problem you have with this sort of stance chippie, on our own, Britain would be as effective as a chocolate teapot.
It's all a bit vague, sib.
You rightly criticise the BNP because their central policy plank is racist yet the central policy plank of the EUSSR seems not to concern you, despite the results - i.e. real poverty.
It's all a bit vague, sib.
You rightly criticise the BNP because their central policy plank is racist yet the central policy plank of the EUSSR seems not to concern you, despite the results - i.e. real poverty.
Dr j-yes they are incapable of drilling for oil.
They do not have the organisation,the energy,the expertise or the financial resources to do so.
If they were able to drill for oil themselves they would have done so by now,
They are good at stealing the oil that outsiders have extracted though.
They do not have the organisation,the energy,the expertise or the financial resources to do so.
If they were able to drill for oil themselves they would have done so by now,
They are good at stealing the oil that outsiders have extracted though.
After things opened up the Russians enticed in the Western oil companies to drill for oil because they did not know how to do it properly.
They then stole the technology and threw them out.
The Africans could try this trick.....but I'm not certain they would be able to carry on running something that had already been set up.
They then stole the technology and threw them out.
The Africans could try this trick.....but I'm not certain they would be able to carry on running something that had already been set up.
Dr J
When companies extract resources, they pay massive amounts of taxes to the host governments.
So they both make huge profits from the venture. The fact that those countries remain poor is a whole other matter, but I imagine Rolls Royce and Bentley make a fair whack from the governments of these countries. Should we be morally outraged at these car manufacturers also?
When companies extract resources, they pay massive amounts of taxes to the host governments.
So they both make huge profits from the venture. The fact that those countries remain poor is a whole other matter, but I imagine Rolls Royce and Bentley make a fair whack from the governments of these countries. Should we be morally outraged at these car manufacturers also?
When companies extract resources, they pay massive amounts of taxes to the host governments.
Clearly not enough if Shell and BP are able to return record profits every year.
What gets me is that no-one complains when the USA or the EU are protectionist in the extreme, yet everyone seems to have a sense that it's perfectly natural for Africa's resources to be exploited by multi-nationals.
Clearly not enough if Shell and BP are able to return record profits every year.
What gets me is that no-one complains when the USA or the EU are protectionist in the extreme, yet everyone seems to have a sense that it's perfectly natural for Africa's resources to be exploited by multi-nationals.
Clearly not enough if Shell and BP are able to return record profits every year
Not enough? Not enough for who? You?
It is enough for the host Governments, as they all happily and voluntarily signed contracts containing the profit splits.
But in true leftie style, somebody is making a profit, so something must be wrong.
Not enough? Not enough for who? You?
It is enough for the host Governments, as they all happily and voluntarily signed contracts containing the profit splits.
But in true leftie style, somebody is making a profit, so something must be wrong.
But in true leftie style, somebody is making a profit, so something must be wrong.
Unless it's Al Bore. ;)
Unless it's Al Bore. ;)
Yes, I cant wait for the "Al Gore is a socialist" thread
Not enough? Not enough for who? You?
Yes.
If the Western world is serious about allowing Africa to rise out of poverty, the aim must be to facilitate and enable Africans to mine and market their own natural resources and to make as much money from the process as we in the West would expect to make.
South America has thrived since giving foreign-owned companies the boot and telling the World Bank to f*ck off with its 'conditionality' loans.
Yes.
If the Western world is serious about allowing Africa to rise out of poverty, the aim must be to facilitate and enable Africans to mine and market their own natural resources and to make as much money from the process as we in the West would expect to make.
South America has thrived since giving foreign-owned companies the boot and telling the World Bank to f*ck off with its 'conditionality' loans.
I dont think anybody has ever prevented Africa from utilising its own resources. The painful truth is that it has been mainly foreigners who have taken advantage because the natives either couldn't be bothered or didn't know how.
Saw somone on ITV this morning not wearing a poppy, the poppy police are not doing their job
Wonder what would happen if a someone said they find people wearing poppies offensive
would Harriet of P.C madness make it a offence
would Harriet of P.C madness make it a offence
It is enough for the host Governments,
of course it is:
"hello mr president of Nigeria, I'm the man from shell"
"Hello man from shell, would you like to buy Nigeria's oil"
"yes please, how much do you want"
"a transit van full of £100 bills will do fine"
I know for a fact that the EU paid £Look at it this way. £10 million a year for 6million tonnes of fish. That is £1.50 per tonne of fish we caught. Did the senegalese get a fair deal? Or, did we, the EU, use corrupt methods to expoloit a poor country and it's impoverished people?
of course it is:
"hello mr president of Nigeria, I'm the man from shell"
"Hello man from shell, would you like to buy Nigeria's oil"
"yes please, how much do you want"
"a transit van full of £100 bills will do fine"
I know for a fact that the EU paid £Look at it this way. £10 million a year for 6million tonnes of fish. That is £1.50 per tonne of fish we caught. Did the senegalese get a fair deal? Or, did we, the EU, use corrupt methods to expoloit a poor country and it's impoverished people?
Dr J 08 Nov 16:06
Exploitation of Developing Countries;
Let me guess, the exploitation consists of freely-negotiated contracts that the countried enter into?
paying massive dividends to shareholders rather than passing on savings to customers;
The shareholders own it, that's the point.
Exploitation of Developing Countries;
Let me guess, the exploitation consists of freely-negotiated contracts that the countried enter into?
paying massive dividends to shareholders rather than passing on savings to customers;
The shareholders own it, that's the point.
meant to say:
EU paid senegal £41 million to fish their waters for 4 years
EU paid senegal £41 million to fish their waters for 4 years
Over the last couple of years Shell has been investing tens of billions in new projects creating many jobs and finding the oil the economy will need in the future. Dr J. just doesnt get it- His stupid tax ideas would simply mean much much less investment.
As for BP/Shell making reconrd profits year after year that is factually incorrect.
As for BP/Shell making reconrd profits year after year that is factually incorrect.
I'm afraid it's you who doesn't get it, Harry.
The multi-nationals chuck in a few 'community' initiatives while bleeding Africa dry, and all the gullible fools back home believe the hype.
The point is that Developing Nations aren't in a position to negotiate fair contracts or produce the oil themselves. How can they be? As such, it's wrong of the Developed World to take advantage, on one hand, while patronising these nations with aid on the other.
The multi-nationals chuck in a few 'community' initiatives while bleeding Africa dry, and all the gullible fools back home believe the hype.
The point is that Developing Nations aren't in a position to negotiate fair contracts or produce the oil themselves. How can they be? As such, it's wrong of the Developed World to take advantage, on one hand, while patronising these nations with aid on the other.
Ethiopia's population has doubled for example, meaning now twice as many are starving.
Thats a funny kind of aid
Thats a funny kind of aid
DR J its you who continually wants to tax these companies worldwide earnings to help close our budget deficit and you who fails to understand that its not possible. Now it appears you want Africa to take a much bigger slice as well and again fail to see nobody would invest there in that case and Africans would be even worse off. You dont see any of the implications of your idealist views.
For example just assume Africans took a huge slice of Shells profits. What happens then? Shell can no longer invest 30 billion a year so jobs are lost. Shell cannot pay dividends so millions of Uk residents pensions are damaged? Future output is less so the oil price rises.
The word is not as simple as it appears from the safety of a Public sector job with a taxpayer funded pension. You are clearly a very selfish man who cares little for how your ideas would hurt other people.
For example just assume Africans took a huge slice of Shells profits. What happens then? Shell can no longer invest 30 billion a year so jobs are lost. Shell cannot pay dividends so millions of Uk residents pensions are damaged? Future output is less so the oil price rises.
The word is not as simple as it appears from the safety of a Public sector job with a taxpayer funded pension. You are clearly a very selfish man who cares little for how your ideas would hurt other people.
Your're simply falling for the multinationals' propaganda, I'm afraid Harry.
:(
Shell can no longer invest 30 billion a year so jobs are lost.
Shell make much more than this figure every year in profit. Why couldn't they simply divert some of that profit towards paying Africans a fairer price for their natural resources?
Shell cannot pay dividends so millions of Uk residents pensions are damaged?
I hate this argument. It's a licence to allow the big corporations to behave as they please, simply because UK pensions might suffer. Pure propaganda.
Future output is less so the oil price rises.
Rubbish. I'm talking about having Africans produce their own oil, not leave it in the ground permanenetly.
:(
Shell can no longer invest 30 billion a year so jobs are lost.
Shell make much more than this figure every year in profit. Why couldn't they simply divert some of that profit towards paying Africans a fairer price for their natural resources?
Shell cannot pay dividends so millions of Uk residents pensions are damaged?
I hate this argument. It's a licence to allow the big corporations to behave as they please, simply because UK pensions might suffer. Pure propaganda.
Future output is less so the oil price rises.
Rubbish. I'm talking about having Africans produce their own oil, not leave it in the ground permanenetly.
The point is that Developing Nations aren't in a position to negotiate fair contracts or produce the oil themselves
You obviously know nothing about oil contracts. I don't know the details of any Shell contracts, but, generally, in the oil industry if you can get 50% of the cash for the oil you recover, you are doing well.
Just imagine how much money is being paid into Nigeria. Yet they can't afford to look for the oil themselves? Don't make me laugh - they don't have to because somebody else will do the hard work, and the country takes the money.
You obviously know nothing about oil contracts. I don't know the details of any Shell contracts, but, generally, in the oil industry if you can get 50% of the cash for the oil you recover, you are doing well.
Just imagine how much money is being paid into Nigeria. Yet they can't afford to look for the oil themselves? Don't make me laugh - they don't have to because somebody else will do the hard work, and the country takes the money.
Dr J. Your last post shows you simply havent got a clue.
Keep up Harry.
Until I started posting on this forum I didn't believe that people like Dr J existed, I thought they were like a Harry Enfield send-up of someone who reads the Guardian and works at the BBC.
Very odd that a reasonably intelligent bloke allows himself to believe so much tripe
Until I started posting on this forum I didn't believe that people like Dr J existed, I thought they were like a Harry Enfield send-up of someone who reads the Guardian and works at the BBC.
Very odd that a reasonably intelligent bloke allows himself to believe so much tripe
Does Dr J wear a sports jacket with leather elbows and cuffs?
Bit 70s that unbiased, more like dark suit with open neck dark shirt, shaven head and black rimmed glasses, carrying a bottle of water.
if shell did pay more for africas natural resources, extra money would only find its way into the corrupt government and officials of these countrys. african countrys are crippled by there own governments. poor africans would hardly benefit, sure lucky locals who work for shell get well payed. all money given from countrys like britain in aid gets syphoned off every year into swiss bank accounts.
I personally think its barmy for anyone to boycott what any compnay does/has done fromthe dawn of time ie to try and make a big a profit as is legally possible
Blackburn,the obsession with the bottle of water always makes me laugh.How did humans ever get by before without the aid of a constant top-up?
madsimon 12 Nov 14:48
I personally think its barmy for anyone to boycott what any compnay does/has done fromthe dawn of time ie to try and make a big a profit as is legally possible
the problem is that there is a big stench about these kind of deals. Big oil company buys the oil in poor country followed by poor country's leader buying gold-plated rolls-royce. These companies pay massive bribes to corrupt officials and then get the oil for sod all.
It is very sweet that all of you lot think these deals are perfectly legitimate, but also slightly worrying.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/bribery-scandal-rocks-big-oil.aspx?page=all
I personally think its barmy for anyone to boycott what any compnay does/has done fromthe dawn of time ie to try and make a big a profit as is legally possible
the problem is that there is a big stench about these kind of deals. Big oil company buys the oil in poor country followed by poor country's leader buying gold-plated rolls-royce. These companies pay massive bribes to corrupt officials and then get the oil for sod all.
It is very sweet that all of you lot think these deals are perfectly legitimate, but also slightly worrying.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/bribery-scandal-rocks-big-oil.aspx?page=all
evski, that piece says:
Stanley's case is the first in what federal officials believe will be a string of indictments in coming months against U.S. corporate executives who have participated in bribing foreign officials in recent years.
It was written a year ago. So where is this 'string of indictments'?
Stanley's case is the first in what federal officials believe will be a string of indictments in coming months against U.S. corporate executives who have participated in bribing foreign officials in recent years.
It was written a year ago. So where is this 'string of indictments'?
what are you saying, shab? Is it your assertion that all oil deals with poor countries are perfectly equitable?
It is very sweet that all of you lot think these deals are perfectly legitimate, but also slightly worrying.
The naivity many posters display when discussing Africa is fake, imo. They know damn well that the West have held the continent back but are secretly quite happy for the exploitation to continue.
The naivity many posters display when discussing Africa is fake, imo. They know damn well that the West have held the continent back but are secretly quite happy for the exploitation to continue.
exactly right, dr J. these are the same people that say that giving aid t.o africa is a waste because all the governments are corrupt, yet trust these same governments to negotiate the best deals for their people when selling natural resources.
Secondly, and more reprehensible, is the admission by Halliburton that it made illicit payments totaling $180 million to some Nigerian top officials as bribes
http://www.cityjournalistdirectory.com/event/halliburton_nigeria_bribe_scandal_april_2009/
I can't be arsed to find any indictments as I doubt the US government will prosecute anyone from Haliburton. There is compelling evidence that these huge multi-nationals are robbing poor countries. No doubt shab thinks it's fine because they aren't white.
Secondly, and more reprehensible, is the admission by Halliburton that it made illicit payments totaling $180 million to some Nigerian top officials as bribes
http://www.cityjournalistdirectory.com/event/halliburton_nigeria_bribe_scandal_april_2009/
I can't be arsed to find any indictments as I doubt the US government will prosecute anyone from Haliburton. There is compelling evidence that these huge multi-nationals are robbing poor countries. No doubt shab thinks it's fine because they aren't white.
They know damn well that the West have held the continent back
I reckon they've done a bloody good job on their own. The Ethiopians must be the most irresponsible bunch on the planet, the population has doubled despite the fact they're all starving. Hard to blame the West (dont the dumb lefties just love that catch all group) for Rwanda and Zimbabwe
I reckon they've done a bloody good job on their own. The Ethiopians must be the most irresponsible bunch on the planet, the population has doubled despite the fact they're all starving. Hard to blame the West (dont the dumb lefties just love that catch all group) for Rwanda and Zimbabwe
evski,
What a knobhead you are 'No doubt shab thinks it's fine because they aren't white'.
What has that got to do with anything at all?
What a knobhead you are 'No doubt shab thinks it's fine because they aren't white'.
What has that got to do with anything at all?
evski 12 Nov 16:14
what are you saying, shab? Is it your assertion that all oil deals with poor countries are perfectly equitable?
Why just poor countries? The oil industry is corrupt. That is a fact. A tiny amount of the money (hundreds of millions, but still a tiny amount in the scheme of it all) is paid in bribes. It happens all over the world, even in the UK (more commonly called things like 'agents fees' in football, or 'arrangement fees', etc).
The real money is the income they get from the oil. That money is sometimes stolen by corrupt officials. But that is nothing to do with the oil companies, and nor should it be.
what are you saying, shab? Is it your assertion that all oil deals with poor countries are perfectly equitable?
Why just poor countries? The oil industry is corrupt. That is a fact. A tiny amount of the money (hundreds of millions, but still a tiny amount in the scheme of it all) is paid in bribes. It happens all over the world, even in the UK (more commonly called things like 'agents fees' in football, or 'arrangement fees', etc).
The real money is the income they get from the oil. That money is sometimes stolen by corrupt officials. But that is nothing to do with the oil companies, and nor should it be.
these are the same people that say that giving aid t.o africa is a waste because all the governments are corrupt, yet trust these same governments to negotiate the best deals for their people when selling natural resources.
Yes, the hypocrisy is truly staggering.
Yes, the hypocrisy is truly staggering.
you are a known racist. You think it's fine for big companies to rob poor countries, where the population is black.
I very much doubt you would be as happy if our government had sold all of our oil for less than it's true value to american companies.
I very much doubt you would be as happy if our government had sold all of our oil for less than it's true value to american companies.
So in your world it's okay to bribe and steal. I would expect nothing less from a BNP voter.
Foreigners "stealing" british jobs is wrong.
Foreigners stealing nigerian natural resources is fine.
I see no contradiction.
Foreigners "stealing" british jobs is wrong.
Foreigners stealing nigerian natural resources is fine.
I see no contradiction.
evski 12 Nov 16:56
you are a known racist. You think it's fine for big companies to rob poor countries, where the population is black.
I'll give you untill 18:00 to apologise.
I have never before asked Betfair to ban somebody, as I think it is wrong, but I simply cannot allow comments like that to go.
You have one hour to apologise.
you are a known racist. You think it's fine for big companies to rob poor countries, where the population is black.
I'll give you untill 18:00 to apologise.
I have never before asked Betfair to ban somebody, as I think it is wrong, but I simply cannot allow comments like that to go.
You have one hour to apologise.
It's ok to call somebody a racist? To call me a known BNP voter?
Lies. Unacceptable.
Lies. Unacceptable.
I get called "white flighter" all the time. To suggest I would live somewhere purely to avoid people of different colours is pretty offensive if taken seriously.
But I'm not quite the drama queen you seem to be on such matters.
But I'm not quite the drama queen you seem to be on such matters.
Shab, can you report me too please?
I've been reading your posts for years and have no doubt that many of your views are horribly racist.
Cheers.
I've been reading your posts for years and have no doubt that many of your views are horribly racist.
Cheers.
Also, can I please have till 18.00 to apologise?
I do love a meaningless deadline...
I do love a meaningless deadline...
I've been reading your posts for years and have no doubt that many of your views are horribly racist.
Dr, a chance for you to show what a knob you are.
Use http://www.gubbed.com/forum-search.fcgi if you need to.
Post them.
Dr, a chance for you to show what a knob you are.
Use http://www.gubbed.com/forum-search.fcgi if you need to.
Post them.
I always thought Shab was a racist and BNP supporter, line me up for a ban too
So you don not vote BNP or agree with their policies?
I have never voted BNP, and barring some cataclismic event, I don't see that ever changing. I disagree with most of their policies. However, I do not see that as relevant to the points being made. I notice that very few have been challenged.
However, I do believe they have a right to a fair media coverage. If you think they don't then you really should take a look at your opinions - banning the BNP leads to banning other parties, and that is exactly what Adolf Hitler did. Do you want that?
Evski - this thread was about oil companies and their business. Three times within this thread you have brought up race. Why is that? You obviosly have a problem with racial issues. Would you care to expand? Are you a racist? Because you seem to think that everything relates to skin colour. Expand that please.
I was annoyed earlier. I would never ask Betfair to ban anybody because I firmly believe in free speech. However, some of the accusations were childish to say the least. When you have lost an argument, the usual vehicle to vent your anger is to call your opponent names, but in this case I hadn't even proved a case, yet was being called a racist. Yet it was not me who mentioned race!
Anyway, it was good to see the following:
- evski showing himself as somebody who considers skin colour before any other factor (commonly known as a 'racist');
- Dr J yet again showing himself up as a knob.
I have never voted BNP, and barring some cataclismic event, I don't see that ever changing. I disagree with most of their policies. However, I do not see that as relevant to the points being made. I notice that very few have been challenged.
However, I do believe they have a right to a fair media coverage. If you think they don't then you really should take a look at your opinions - banning the BNP leads to banning other parties, and that is exactly what Adolf Hitler did. Do you want that?
Evski - this thread was about oil companies and their business. Three times within this thread you have brought up race. Why is that? You obviosly have a problem with racial issues. Would you care to expand? Are you a racist? Because you seem to think that everything relates to skin colour. Expand that please.
I was annoyed earlier. I would never ask Betfair to ban anybody because I firmly believe in free speech. However, some of the accusations were childish to say the least. When you have lost an argument, the usual vehicle to vent your anger is to call your opponent names, but in this case I hadn't even proved a case, yet was being called a racist. Yet it was not me who mentioned race!
Anyway, it was good to see the following:
- evski showing himself as somebody who considers skin colour before any other factor (commonly known as a 'racist');
- Dr J yet again showing himself up as a knob.
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