I cakeback now based on the Essence system?

there was a thread on this very subject over a week ago.

essentially the winning players will be subsidising the losers cake wise.

Can someone explain how the rake is apportioned, please?

i heard it was 5 player points equals $1, but who knows right

It's 3.25 per dollar for cash games, 5 per dollar for tournies  :)

Sorry, but I do not understand how the rake is apportioned from the pot.  If the rake on a game is $1.00, how is distributed amongst the players who played in the game?

I heard some cash players saying they were getting not much more than half the rakeback they did previously.

So if you have 4 pros and 1 fish at the table, the pros all get half, and the fish must get 3 times old rakeback? 

So the fish must be raking in the rakeback, but what happens if the fish gets no rakeback? I am guessing bwin/bf aren't too unhappy!  And if you are a fishy shortstacker are you quids in?  Great news

Problem with secret systems is everybody will get suspicious. Essence looks to have a smell about it from where I am sat.

I suppose at least you can be sure of where you are on STTs/MTTs

What is the essence system, please?

annie. Joined: 22 Sep 06
Replies: 3550 06 Aug 10 21:55   


What is the essence system, please?

It is all a secret, so we can't tell you (and don't know!). 

It is supposed to pay higher rakeback to bad players than good, but as nobody knows how it works, we just have to take their word for it.

I friend of mine who consistantly cakes 2400 or 2500 $$ cake back on this essenence system is a winning cash player of approx 3bb/100 at medium stakes. His last months cake was only 1850,reducing his overall profit.

I have now moved and will split my hands over 2 sites for a period to balance out.

As if a fish who has just shipped 7 buyins in an hour on his one table is going to be bothered that hisRB is now 6 dollars instead of 3, she ite system that will just drive winning players to look elsewhere.

Has this affected the amount of betfair poker points you get (poker points on betfair points statement)? Ie. can we still assume 66.67 points per £10 of rakeback?
Either we should be getting less points than normal, or the points are worth less than they used to be. Which one? (Again I'm talking about betfair points, NOT player points)

I think it is unaltered on STTs and MTTs, but is reduced on cash (well reduced for everyone who has voiced an opinion).  I haven't played cash on the new site yet.

First off, it is fact that this is the new system. I went to one of the poker evenings BF have put on recently and spoke to marketing manager for poker. He confirmed winning players get less and losing players get more. After this I have emailed BF 4 times to get the exact formula. They only just replied saying 'they have passed it to the poker team'.....basically they don't want to tell us from what I can see. However, rtr has done an update from 1st aug-5th aug and it seems almost the same, maybe a little less and I won at 15.7bb/100. I just think its unfair the way its all so secret

So now you all want to play on a site that has 'secrets' from you and gives you (presuming you win) LESS rakeback lmao. It gets better :)

Dooberama Joined: 11 Jan 02
Replies: 742 07 Aug 10 11:05   

I haven't played cash on the new site yet.

Waheyyyy Joined: 02 Jun 05
Replies: 664 07 Aug 10 18:34   


So now you all want to play on a site that has 'secrets' from you and gives you (presuming you win) LESS rakeback lmao. It gets better :)

Nice observation kirk.

I spoke to customer services about this. I was told that winning players will indeed get less rakeback, but it should be minimal. Big rakers will notice a bigger difference, obviously.

The logic seems to be: If you are a winning player, you don't really need as much rakeback, after all you're winning right? So losing players get more rakeback and more loyalty points in a bid to keep them playing. So fishes are happy to stay and winning players get to play with the fishes for a bit longer.

Why don't they just give the poor players 5% better odds each pot as with the last software

What is the script on the Betfair points holidays?

How many points do I need for a weekend for 2 in Skegness? and does my Mrs need to be registered on the new site as well ?

tyvmia

Maybe going to give some of the rake to players who used to play here. Will go nice with the freebies (ie enhanced prizes, free food and free drink) they give them at Betfair live events.
Just a thought

**** cakeback, it has destroyed the game. Just abolish it and it will sort the men from the boys. Let's see people playing to win again rather than grinding to break even. Let's see players putting their money on the line and not having the security blanket of cakeback to protect them.

OUT WITH CAKEBACK! EVERYONE IN SUPPORT OF ME SAY 'AYE'

"If so, it's not worth playing is it? Not if you are winning"

So are you trying to say that it is only worth playing if you are doing your b0llux.  Do you kick the cat if you are having a 7 buy in winning session? Pray that your opponent hits his one outer so you haven't wasted your time by having a winning session

"she ite system that will just drive winning players to look elsewhere"

That is a good thing DUCY

Poolio are you nuts
A If you play well you earn more from rakeback .. winning players deserve it
and
B If im playing and im 86% fav holding a nuts hand i want my hand to hold 86% not 81%

explain to me how in hell any idiot fish donk should be rewarded cos what your saying is totally b.s

Its nothing to do with poor players ..if you decide to play poker you come in with your deposit and you come in what what you can afford to lose ..as you get better you win more get more rake  you have learned and are being rewarded .. dont hit them with cash for feck all and make a s h ite player think that they are good ..all that will do is drivve away the ggood players ... it all about bringing good players through imo

Hammerdfu Joined: 26 Jul 10

as you get better you win more get more rake

Say what?

Ahh i just read that 1 back .. what i meant is that you win more the better you are plus your rake gets to a level of consistancy where you can guess within a certain % what you will earn per month ..obviously the more you play the more you make ...i think you were missing the gist of the post which is who in their right mind would offer to give up something thats there for free ..and is a nice earner on top of your winnings ..poolio wants to abolish rake and give donks an advantage .. which is a totally retarded statement ...i was making £1200 per annum on low stakes rake ..you take that from someone in the street its called mugging ..if poolio likes the occasional mugging be my guest but personally i like cash

Poolio are you nuts
A If you play well you earn more from rakeback .. winning players deserve it
and
B If im playing and im 86% fav holding a nuts hand i want my hand to hold 86% not 81%

explain to me how in hell any idiot fish donk should be rewarded cos what your saying is totally b.s

Its nothing to do with poor players ..if you decide to play poker you come in with your deposit and you come in what what you can afford to lose ..as you get better you win more get more rake  you have learned and are being rewarded .. dont hit them with cash for feck all and make a s h ite player think that they are good ..all that will do is drivve away the ggood players ... it all about bringing good players through imo

A: Regarding abolishing rake. Your point is incorrect, you don't earn more rakeback the more you win, you earn rakeback based on volume of raked hands played. This is the reason why there are so many multi-table grinders, a lot of which only break-even from play and earn the bulk of their profit from cakeback. The whole game has changed IMO since cakeback was created. Put it into perspective that there are players who are only skilled enough to break even yet profit from cakeback. I would like to see cakeback abolished across the whole of online poker to see poker how it should be played, seeing players playing to win rather than to earn cakeback.

B: My point about giving fish 5% better odds was tongue in cheek and I said it as an explanation for bad beats.

Just to clarify Hammerdfu I earn cakeback and of course I would miss it but we already have poker companies taking steps to curb the cakeback paid and players who earn a lot. I also think gameplay has changed since it was introduced. Far too many unskilled grinders not playing properly to win. You comment about not giving donks an advantage, cakeback does give losers an advantage though as it allows average players to make a living on online poker.

Poolio its impossible to "make a living from rake" if your a losing player or break even player .. cos you fish and throw too much money into pots to profit if your losing then the others at your table get your cash plus they earn from the rake that fish  generate and if your a break even player then your getting to the stage where you have improved but are probably playing too many hands ..even good players have bad months and the rake helps to offset this ..the object of the game is to get ahead of the rake every month imo  abolishing rake is dumb ..it gives poker companies even more profit while taking it from joe average ... unless you work for betfair then im afraid its a nono in 99% of players .. i did notice you put up ban rake put your name below in another post ... i dont think you got many names [:D]

Of course the bulk of players wouldn't support abolishing cakeback, on the face of it anybody who receives it would lose financially myself included. However you have to look at the bigger picture and think for the good of the game. IMO cakeback has ruined the way the game is played online, there are too many grinders who multi-table and play by the book, their decisions are based with the security of cakeback in mind.

'It's impossible to make a living from cakeback if you're a losing player or breakeven player'. That statement you made is factually incorrect, there are far too many players who lose a little, breakeven or win a little then get paid cakeback which forms a very large percentage of their overall profit from online poker.

You sound like a relatively new player who has only played since cakeback existed. In the old days of online poker cakeback wasn't paid, it is a bonus and not a right. It was designed as an incentive to retain players, get them playing tons of hands and the poker companies thought they would earn a lot of money. However years down the line we now have a ridiculous situation where affiliates are competing and there are players on astronomical cakeback deals almost playing fee-free. There are tons of players not playing to win but making decisions knowing they'll get their cakeback at the end of the month.

Abolish cakeback and you'll see the game played properly again and if you're a good player you may even see your profits boosted as the leeches and very average players who depended on cakeback will be forced to change their games and actually play pure poker. Poker companies could even get rid of cakeback BUT reduce rake therefore you'd still be getting cakeback technically but everyone would be on a level playing field. Those people criticising the Essence system need to bare in mind that with cakeback it is unfair anyway as there are those that don't receive it and those that do receive different percentages.

Scrap cakeback, reduce rake and we'll see better poker IMO.

Poolio you appear to be angry, bitter, twisted and deranged. Calling players leeches is unwarranted and unfounded. Also several times you talk about people playing 'properly again'. Seeing 'better poker'. You are just weird, weird, weird.

It's an opinion. If you don't agree with it then fine but at least state your reasons.

Calling players leeches is unwarranted and unfounded. Also several times you talk about people playing 'properly again'. Seeing 'better poker'.

Players of high rakeback deals and/or those who profit almost entirely from cakeback are leeches on the system IMO. Also I feel cakeback has changed the way many players play and see online poker....I stated in my previous posts how I think this is the case. I would like to see online poker return to a form where people play to win and ALL their profits come from gameplay.

Im already being hit by juiced flops rag hands calling massive raises and flopping ahead and now this s h ite
Further to your query below, please note that going forward all rakeback credits will be calculated using the Essence program. This is in accordance with network rules. What we can say is that the system is calculated based on a player's level of play and winning players will get less rakeback in comparison to losing players.

Please note that currently this will only affect cash players and not tournament players.


Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further enquiries.

Kind regards,

Josef Baldacchino

Betfair helpdesk


trust myself and every sane player on here wants rake ...i think you want attention

Cell 1	Cell 2
Cell 3	Cell 4

[:p]

There basically telling you that they are baby sitting f u ken idiots

Hammerdfu from a personal perspective yes rakeback is good.

You keep ignoring the bigger picture though. Rakeback has negatives for instance consider the types of players it has created...

Hey, I want to sign up for some of this cakeback! Jam donuts, please.

Hammerdfu agree with you on rakeback but not on what you say about it being impossible for a losing/break even player to earn a living from it. What about Arboy (think thats the spelling)and he's not alone.