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The Kitten
25 Jul 10 13:08
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Date Joined: 09 Oct 06
| Topic/replies: 7,397 | Blogger: The Kitten's blog
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Report Barksdalefamilybusiness July 25, 2010 2:17 PM BST
so your saying that breaking the rules is ok, if its in the best interest of your team!
Report LazyRamper July 25, 2010 2:17 PM BST
Less bent than what Hamilton did in Valencia and no cruder than what Red Bull did at Silverstone, Ferrari aren't idiots.
Report ritchiegillett July 25, 2010 2:17 PM BST
yep lost a bit especially as i had backed massa last week at brilliant odds
Report The Kitten July 25, 2010 2:18 PM BST
Bent as a hairpin.

F1 is just plain crooked.
Report oldbigead July 25, 2010 2:18 PM BST
it is technically against the rules but if youre betting on f1 you have to understand how the sport works.

you cant complain crying foul when the odds all the way through suggested that this might happen.
Report GlenCullen July 25, 2010 2:18 PM BST
They've done it before, but now team orders are banned.  No matter how they phrased it, this was still team orders.
Report joe39 July 25, 2010 2:18 PM BST
Vote with the "off" switch guys. Just don't watch it.
Report EagleJay July 25, 2010 2:18 PM BST
At the end of the day Ferrari I have fixed the result
Report The Kitten July 25, 2010 2:18 PM BST
If it was Big Brother, Ferrari would be in the Diary Room for a severe bollocking.
Report book July 25, 2010 2:19 PM BST
ritchie,how could you lose backing massa at brilliant odds,trade out at odds on for massive profit,happy days.
Report bigsy657 July 25, 2010 2:20 PM BST
he was the faster driver,giving massa a 3.5 sec lead proved that,after the first incident it was always gonna happen......
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:20 PM BST
'you cant complain crying foul when the odds all the way through suggested that this might happen.'

How so?  Massa has been trading odds on for over 30 laps or so
Report ricko23 July 25, 2010 2:20 PM BST
Waiting for the booing on the podium
Report ritchiegillett July 25, 2010 2:22 PM BST
hindsights a wonderful thing
Report Barksdalefamilybusiness July 25, 2010 2:22 PM BST
I agree that from a betting perspective it should be considered, but that fails to change the fact that this was a flagrant breach of a rule that everybody involved in the decision is fully aware of. If you intentionally break rules for advantage then you have cheated, end of. surely
Report bigsy657 July 25, 2010 2:23 PM BST
what would of happened if it was massa closing on alonso,would they still have let him through???????????
Report ritchiegillett July 25, 2010 2:24 PM BST
end of the day they just cheated and after all the shame with F1 over the last few years you would think they wouldnt still be doing it... massively upsetting as a punter and a spectator
Report big aitch July 25, 2010 2:25 PM BST
I feel angrier than if I had been the victim of a pick pocket
Report 4dannyboy July 25, 2010 2:27 PM BST
Don, if the market had not suspected that this might happen, Massa would have been much shorter than he was.
Report oldbigead July 25, 2010 2:28 PM BST
true dat danny boy.

if people dont understand that then they'll be losing more money than just on this.
Report 4dannyboy July 25, 2010 2:29 PM BST
Just to be clear, this will be settled when the drivers are on the podium and the market will be unaffected by any subsequent FIA ruling?
Report Peter Simple July 25, 2010 2:31 PM BST
Ferrar is cheating when you only look at the written rule but the unwritten rule is that cheating has no consequences (like so often in business). That maybe sad but it is reality. Today sport is at first entertainment.
Report budvar July 25, 2010 2:31 PM BST
that is correct. Given the fact that Ferrari are out of favour with the powers that be, he may be stripped of win later.
Report Angela Rebecchi July 25, 2010 2:32 PM BST
Wonder if Massa had put in some slower laps off his own accord if the order hadn't come in? Surely they are prepped for this without having to send in the team orders?
Report bilbobaggins July 25, 2010 2:33 PM BST
I remember when Schumacher did this a few years ago to Barrichello - they said it would never happen again or be allowed to happen again. A joke of a 'sport'!
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:35 PM BST
4dannyboy     Joined: 07 Jun 06
Replies: 567 25 Jul 10 14:27 
Don, if the market had not suspected that this might happen, Massa would have been much shorter than he was.


Sure there is always a possibility but there was never the belief that it would happen, Alonso had the gap down to a second from just over 3
Report Help2 July 25, 2010 2:36 PM BST
Alonso was the fastest one, so no surprise.
Report donny_lad July 25, 2010 2:38 PM BST
take it you all lost bets then well im up 400 quid havin layed vettel first lap leader and backing alonso at 3 when 3.4 seconds behind , alonso was faster on most laps , he won by about 5 seconds in end , massa got caught by vettel nearly near end do you think that was a fix aswell
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:38 PM BST
got to take this sport for what it is

this sort of stuff been happening for years
Report The Kitten July 25, 2010 2:39 PM BST
SETTLED.

Cheating bastards.
Report Peter Simple July 25, 2010 2:39 PM BST
Don, what the market says is without any relevance. I do not have high opinion about market opinions. From Ferrari point of view it is simple: It is much better that Alonso better. It may be a break of rules but what are the costs ? Nothing. So the break of rules is irrelevant. This is simply business logic. Every manager in the business makes it. It is no brainer. ( and i have not high opinions about is but i know the unwritten rules and consider it in my actions).
Report ritchiegillett July 25, 2010 2:39 PM BST
totally agree an absolute farce, no more for me after this.... and with the big break coming up by the time its back on the football season would of started.
had a reasonably profitable F1 season mainly due to webber so will have to take today on the chin but cheerio !!
Report jermaine defonebox July 25, 2010 2:40 PM BST
More spanish gamesmanship football tennis and now here they might be talented but they bend the rules
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 2:40 PM BST
So many deluded folk on here with money talking

simple fact alonso was going faster and was going to be in overtaking position v.soon

why not let him move past safely instead of having another redbull incident of few weeks back??

as i've said the correct decision was made, yes could been more subtle maybe?

but alonso was always going to win this race 1/2way through bar mechanical or error of judgement
Report Buell Mule July 25, 2010 2:41 PM BST
Exactly Peter is right.F1 is a billion pound business at the end of the day ... It's open to debate if it's right but hard nosed bottom  line is, it's business.
Report Peter Ridsdale July 25, 2010 2:41 PM BST
Great call, and anyone who lost money on Massa shouldn't be gambling on F1!
Report joe39 July 25, 2010 2:42 PM BST
Betfair market settled (podium). Anything that happens in a few hours doesn't count with Betfair.
Report RememberJeremyBates July 25, 2010 2:42 PM BST
Market settled. I won't be betting on F1 again. Thank God Massa did get below 1.5 so I could lay some back. Would have lost a hell of a lot more, otherwise...
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:42 PM BST
eddie seething
Report TinkHeptinstall July 25, 2010 2:43 PM BST
Massa would have won IMHO, leaves a bad taste.
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:43 PM BST
It's completely understandable from Ferrari's view point but that doesn't make it ok, it's against the rules even though nothing will happen
Report donny_lad July 25, 2010 2:43 PM BST
totally agree with tiny dave , massa nearly got caught by vettel in end , was only a matter of time , in end its a team game aswell ferrari is a team so they can decide between themselves what to do , they want to win the drivers championship and there best hope is alonso
Report Pounf July 25, 2010 2:44 PM BST
Hey dont knock it, Ive been watching F1 on and off for a while and its the first overtake I`ve seen.
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 2:44 PM BST
everyone on massa new this was a likely story 1/2 way through the race

alonso was gaining 0.5secs per lap

would you all grubmled if he would passed him too
Report TinkHeptinstall July 25, 2010 2:44 PM BST
Well said Eddie Jordan, not sitting on the fence like most would
Report Mickey1001 July 25, 2010 2:45 PM BST
dirty cheating scum throw them out
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:46 PM BST
Vettel was setting great lap times and Massa had just given up the race, it's no surprise he got close to him
Report Peter Ridsdale July 25, 2010 2:46 PM BST
Eddie Jordan is an idiot, Coulthard knows.
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:47 PM BST
both to get thrown out ?????????????
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 2:48 PM BST
result will stand for sure
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:49 PM BST
'Show us the evidence' He had the gap down to a second Eddie Laugh
Report Peter Ridsdale July 25, 2010 2:49 PM BST
Not a chance the FIA will chuck them out.
Report RafterP1 July 25, 2010 2:49 PM BST
Has the market been settled? If both ferrari's are DQ does that mean Vettel wins and if so would Betfair have to pay out to Vettel backers?
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:49 PM BST
surely asking him to move out the way is a team order ?
Report donny_lad July 25, 2010 2:50 PM BST
massa was slowest of the 3 in  19 of the last 25 laps and people are sayin its a fix should have won , if the race was another 10laps longer he probably wouldnt have got podium finish
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 2:51 PM BST
1. they wont get chucked out ffs

2. it was team orders, but then alonso was closing at 0.5secs per lap it was invetible he was going to overtake
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:51 PM BST
point is they cant say to massa move out the way because alonso quicker

rules state massa should try and hold position even if going slower than alonso on track
Report joe39 July 25, 2010 2:52 PM BST
(For those who didn't hear it earlier...)

Felipe Massa team radio...
"OK. So. Fernando is FASTER than YOU. Can you confirm you UNDERSTOOD that message?"

BBC
Jonathan Legard "I think we understand that message, don't we?"
Martin Brundle "Indeed we do".

Alonso passes him 1 minute later.
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 2:52 PM BST
alonso playing dumb here lol
Report TinkHeptinstall July 25, 2010 2:52 PM BST
slowest smowest, track position is everything, Massa would have won
Report Barksdalefamilybusiness July 25, 2010 2:53 PM BST
thanks for talking us through that great overtake fernando, supreme driving
Report RafterP1 July 25, 2010 2:53 PM BST
Nobody disputing that Donny but rules are rules... Ferrari should be DQ'd.

This sort of thing just proves again that F1 is a complete joke of a 'sport'... The FIA are in the pockets of the teams, its always been that way....

Would be interesting to see what BF would do though if Ferrari are DQ'd.. Don't think they could pay out to Vettel backers
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:53 PM BST
Exactly SY, it is supposed to be a race lads, not who sets the fastest lap....that's qualifying so who cares if Alonso was closing?
Report Pounf July 25, 2010 2:53 PM BST
Blatant cheat everybody knows. Massa could have won if he`d fought for first from first, couldnt possibly win from 2nd.
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:54 PM BST
exactly

doesnt matter if alonso was faster than massa on track he shouldnt be moving aside

should fight for his track position, by giving the order they put one of their own cars in worse position
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:54 PM BST
massa LaughLaugh
Report TinkHeptinstall July 25, 2010 2:54 PM BST
both will be DQ'd
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:54 PM BST
hes just dropped them in the sh1t Laugh
Report RAPS July 25, 2010 2:55 PM BST
I haven`t read much of the thread and never will but FYI :

If you lost betting on this in-play you aint cut out for betting.
Withdraw any available funds, find another hobby and forget the whole thing, there is no hope for you on this site.
Report Peter Ridsdale July 25, 2010 2:55 PM BST
DQ'd for what?

This is Ferrari you know.
Report TinkHeptinstall July 25, 2010 2:55 PM BST
change my mind, Alonso will be Dq'd
Report Barksdalefamilybusiness July 25, 2010 2:56 PM BST
not really towing the company line there was he. Ha ha
Report LazyRamper July 25, 2010 2:56 PM BST
STEPTOES YARD Joined: 18 Sep 06
surely asking him to move out the way is a team order ?


So would telling him to stop racing because of his engine/fuel consumption as goes on in just about every race yet people turn a blind eye to it..
Report joe39 July 25, 2010 2:56 PM BST
Betfair settled on the podium and the national anthems.
Odds-on Paddy P give something to Massa or Vettel backers? They have form for refunds & paying out on more than one winner.
Report big aitch July 25, 2010 2:56 PM BST
RAPS, you talk a lot of b0ll0cks
Report Barksdalefamilybusiness July 25, 2010 2:57 PM BST
no telling him to manage fuel insures they finish the race, ergo gaining their best positions
Report RafterP1 July 25, 2010 2:57 PM BST
totally disagree with you RAPS....

I got on Alonso at 2.06 as soon as I heard the message from Massa's engineer and i'm sure i'm not the only one. It took a good 10 seconds before everybody on BF realised what the message actually meant, only then did the odds start to drop
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 2:58 PM BST
alonso worth a lay for title

will be DQ imo
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 2:58 PM BST
It's Ferrari, no hope for DQ Cry
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 3:00 PM BST
now come on guys you sure this isnt money talk now? im not saying whats happened is morally right

but......

we all know this could happen! they just made it a tad obvious
alonso was 90% probably going on to overtake massa with how race was going
ferraris main aim is to have 1-2, not 1-3. their decision justified this

now as i said its not morally right, but would you guys be making such a fuss if you actually benefited from such a move?
Report RafterP1 July 25, 2010 3:01 PM BST
what is BF's policy on this? If Ferrari's are DQ'd will they have to pay out to Vettel backers? Can't find any rules regarding this sort of thing on BF's website
Report STEPTOES YARD July 25, 2010 3:01 PM BST
havent had a bet on it

just think clear that team orders and think result will be changed
Report lux_interior July 25, 2010 3:02 PM BST
Eddie Jordan absolutely seething

must have lumped on Massa Laugh
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 3:02 PM BST
I did benefit from the move tiny dave, doesn't make it ok.  Alonso certainly wasn't 90% going to overtake him
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 3:03 PM BST
vettell backers your living in hope. 0% chance of you getting payout
Report budvar July 25, 2010 3:04 PM BST
Not so sure about that. The FIA and Ferrari are not best mates any longer. Ferrari boss is the big cheese in FOTA, the sworn enemy of Eccelstone and the FIA. Ironic that the head of FIA is Jean Todt, the man who gave the order to Barrichello let Schumacher past in 2002 which lead to the no team orders rule.
Report Alkeyhole July 25, 2010 3:04 PM BST
Thinking about it, I can't see how they can DQ Alonso (much as I'd love it, I detest him).  But HE never did anything wrong.  The team cheated & actually Massa cheated.

Obviously this has nothing to do with justice (and equally obviously, no Ferrari people will be DQd).  But on what grounds could Alonso be DQd...?
Report joe39 July 25, 2010 3:05 PM BST
Betfair markets are settled. As said earlier though, by tomorrow morning, maybe betting shops will be paying on a different result.
Report Alkeyhole July 25, 2010 3:05 PM BST
BTW Tiny Dave I didn't bet on the race & if you think Alonso was 90% likely to pass you don't know much about F1.
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 3:05 PM BST
^^ exactly
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 3:06 PM BST
alonso was gaining on him, the only way he probably wouldnt have passed had he got team orders not to attack massa (would been team orders)
Report Barksdalefamilybusiness July 25, 2010 3:07 PM BST
the market is settled on a podium basis, its done, over. Alonso was not, despite what some have said, 90% likely to pass at all, we see everyweek cars cruise up behind, hit the dirty air and stay there at about a second behind. The method is not justified by the result as the method is prohibited. Ben Johnston winning a gold did not justify his cheating. Ferrais 1-2 is no justification for this.
Report viva el presidente! July 25, 2010 3:16 PM BST
didn't watch it or bet on it, so have no real interest.

but a sport which has rules which can be flagrantly broken without consequence becomes a laughing stock, so I think something will probably happen. doing nothing makes them look idiots.
Report Don No1 July 25, 2010 3:18 PM BST
'the only way he probably wouldnt have passed'

He couldn't pass after the stop so even if he had got up to him it wouldn't have been easy.  Alonso wasn't that much quicker, he had a better run through the traffic
Report tiny dave July 25, 2010 3:19 PM BST
how many times does same constuctors have 1-2 and with 10laps to go they tell the 2nd place driver to ease up

no one kicks stink then?
Report betchat July 25, 2010 3:31 PM BST
Expect in the next race the grid leader will have a special tack and oil laying machine bolted onto the back of their car Laugh 

It won't be noticed Laugh
Report speedypro July 25, 2010 3:33 PM BST
Where is that little guy who controls the sport when he should be outfront. You know the guy benny hill used to slap on the head and kick up the arrse. Jackie Wright-Ecclestone.
Report Green Board July 25, 2010 3:35 PM BST
Massa has said it was 'his choice' that might swing it so that the FIA don't take an action :S
Report jermaine defonebox July 25, 2010 6:08 PM BST
Sounds like they are gonna be thrown out ....good
Ferrari are always at it and its pretty stupid risking all cause alonso threatens to throw his toys
  lewis was right alonso doesnt like to race .....
luckiest and worst world champion ever
Report Virgin July 25, 2010 6:19 PM BST
this thread is longer than the race FFS

Laugh
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