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coast
31 May 10 11:57
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Date Joined: 17 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 419 | Blogger: coast's blog
Anyone got any feelings on this
Pause Switch to Standard View Now red Bull are backing Vettel in...
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Report Help2 May 31, 2010 5:21 PM BST
Well i think its 40-60 webber-vettel! Vettel was trying to pass, and Webber made a weird cut on the track!
Report thebandit May 31, 2010 5:28 PM BST
You mean Vettel made a weird cut...!!!
Report coast May 31, 2010 6:35 PM BST
wow Laugh I CANT see what webber did wrong .Well unless he was EXPECTED to move over for super boy !!!.
Report AFL June 1, 2010 2:45 AM BST
Also reported that on lap 40 Webber was told to back off for fuel saving. Same report was unsure if Vettel was given the same instruction???? But Vettel swooped once this instruction was given to Webber. This...with Red Bull's driver boss Helmut Marko...siding with Vettel...makes my bet on Webber for the Drivers Champ doomed...imo.Sad
Report fkqmz June 1, 2010 10:38 AM BST
more fuel for the 'webber to retire' fire
Report dogrelata June 1, 2010 11:47 AM BST
coast,

This is obviously a very emotive subject.  Technically Webber did nothing wrong.  He doesn’t appear to have moved of his line and was under no obligation to do so.  But then things start to get complicated.

The guy he was going wheel to wheel with was his teammate and he chose not to give that teammate any room for error – this is clearly what Christian Horner was alluding to after the race in his interview.  Horner was clearly pissed off that his drivers got themselves into that position and cost the team a shed load of points.

But Webber needs to ask himself whether his decision-making in the heat of battle was the best it could have been.  On this occasion he came out of the whole thing pretty well.  He now leads the championship by 5 points and is 15 points better off than Vettel.  However, things could easily have worked out very differently.  Both cars might have ended up ‘in the gravel’, or it might have been Webber himself who was forced to retire, with Vettel now sitting atop the championship.

The thing I’d want to ask Mark Webber is whether it’s more important to him that he ‘did nothing wrong’ or that he ends up as world champion.  He may feel he didn’t want to give any quarter or show any signs of weakness to Vettel, but if he ends up losing the championship by a handful of points, he’ll always wonder whether it would have been more prudent to have given Vettel that extra yard or two of room that would have kept them both on the track.
Report AFL June 1, 2010 12:04 PM BST
Positions reversed....no way known would Vettel have given Webber an inch, imo. ......and Horner probably would have sided with Vettel still. imo
Report fkqmz June 1, 2010 12:09 PM BST
horner knows if he falls out with vettel he stands a chance of losing him to mercedes. with webber in the twilight of his career he needs to protect his future assets. yes he has kimi on the subs bench but god only knows how good he'll be if he even gets a chance so protecting the relationship with vettel is best for the business....

dont you just hate f1 politics
Report AFL June 1, 2010 12:13 PM BST
Yes i think what Horner is saying is Driver No 2 Webber, should have conceded the corner to Driver No 1.Vettel.
Report fkqmz June 1, 2010 12:21 PM BST
dont get me wrong im saying that what he's saying and what he's really thinking are probably very different
Report AFL June 1, 2010 12:29 PM BST
Yes the politics is frustrating....but understandable also. If this is true, then Webbers only hope of winning the Champ is to do exactly as he has been doing (Winning Qual) and hope that Vettel is close enough to still get the team the Manufactures Champ...but not close enough to allow the politics come into play if they are running 1&2 in a race.
Report dogrelata June 1, 2010 3:56 PM BST
Team politics is very much a factor in modern sport – guys like Michael Schumacher and Lance Armstrong are political animals as well as fierce competitors.  What the aftermath to Sunday’s incident did is emphasise to Mark Webber his position within the team, if it wasn’t already apparent to him. 

The other problem with Webber’s willingness to take a risk is the message it sends out to Vettel. 

If there’s £1 million pounds on offer to the winner of a contest between Usain Bolt and me, and the two options are to race each other over 100 metres or determine the outcome by the roll of a dice, Bolt’s going to want to run the race, I’m going to want to roll the dice.  I can’t beat Bolt in a foot race, but I might get lucky in a game of chance.

Metaphorically, Webber chose to roll the dice rather than accept a short-term setback and trust in his ability to outpace Vettel over the remainder of the season.  Vettel appears to have been starting to feel the pressure Webber had been applying over the past few races and took a gamble as well.  Whilst he lost 15 points to his rival on Sunday, you can’t help thinking he now has the upper hand psychologically as a result of Webber choosing to gamble rather than play the percentages, as you might expect somebody in a position of strength to do.
Report stevie_p June 1, 2010 7:06 PM BST
re- the incident.
webber gives enough room for vettel , hes in control as he is aware hes giving the team mate just enough room for the car.
he holds the line and i feel watching footage was about to prepare for the corner , so regardless of what he did vettel was always likely to nudge him turning into the corner.
a reckless move by vettel and a sign of desperation, but how much was forced upon him by the team , it would seem they downed webbers revs and thats why the door opened , none of which makes sense as webber should have had more fuel being in front. so a lot of it seems political within in the team.
however it remains that in my opinion webber was cool and vettel was hot headed and out of joint from qually and previous 2 wins from mark.
with that attitude i can see webber steal this from under the nose of red bull, he seems cute enough to know whats going on and look after himself. be very daring of red bull to do an eddie irvine with mechanical and pit problems with the media glare firmly on them.
as for webber being in the twilight years , his drive at monaco was stunning as was his qually in spain, turkey race whilst under pressure responded  to it well from hamilton,he has went up a lot in my estimation from them 3 races alone.
he has started from the bottom with minardi and from the past 3 races seems at the pinnacle of his career , i hope he continues as such and i really think he can win this title from red bull and their obvious desire to have the youngest german driver as world champion.
with mclaren and mercedes and ferrari not too far off that may be a very foolish attitude come abu dhabi.
horner has went down a lot in public estimation after his comments sunday , he even had to make a press release.
im all gunning for webber to take it away from the red bull team.

all in all , best race in a long time and the fuse lit for the coming season, tensions are bubbling and mclaren werent immune to pressure sunday either.
cant wait till canada
Report Taylor's world June 1, 2010 9:27 PM BST
I agree what a race and will button settle for no. 2 in the team which he clearly is.

The red bull situiation

Both were in the wrong webber should have given more room to a faster vettle, and webber was holding him up which may have resulted in lewis pouncing.  However vettel was aggresive.

So all in all Red bull brought the hole thing on them self.
Report Taylor's world June 1, 2010 9:27 PM BST
I agree what a race and will button settle for no. 2 in the team which he clearly is.

The red bull situiation

Both were in the wrong webber should have given more room to a faster vettle, and webber was holding him up which may have resulted in lewis pouncing.  However vettel was aggresive.

So all in all Red bull brought the hole thing on them self.
Report dogrelata June 1, 2010 9:41 PM BST
I’ve watched the incident a few times as well and I always come back to the same thing – what did Webber imagine was going to happen to Vettel as they approached the corner?  Webber had the racing line, so Vettel would be expected to run deep into the corner, presumably.  So what avoiding action could/should Webber have taken? 

If you watch the two McLarens coming up behind, they both approach the corner from the far right of the road and go ‘shallow’ through the bend, to undercut the carnage in front of them. 

Did Webber allow his desire not to concede an inch to Vettel cloud his judgement, choosing to hold his line rather than move to the right, which may have had the double benefit of avoiding contact with Vettel when the German chose to make his move, whilst allowing him to take a more ‘shallow’ line through the corner and re-take Vettel as he ran wide, as per the McLarens? 

In other words; did he gamble rather than play the percentages?
Report AFL June 2, 2010 6:48 AM BST
Red Bull step back from blaming Webber for crash
Alan Baldwin, Reuters June 2, 2010,

LONDON, June 1 (Reuters) - Red Bull wrote off their drivers' costly Turkish Grand Prix collision as a racing incident on Tuesday after earlier pinning the blame on championship leader Mark Webber.

Team principal Christian Horner said in an interview published by Red Bull that he and owner Dietrich Mateschitz had both had words with Australian Webber and German Sebastian Vettel since Sunday's race.

"Dietrich has spoken with both drivers following the incident," said Horner.

"He has always supported both drivers equally and summed it up by saying: 'We shouldn't talk about the past, but concentrate on the future.

"The fact is that we not only have the fastest car, but also two of the best and fastest drivers'."

Helmut Marko, a close adviser of Mateschitz, had blamed Webber on Sunday for not making space for his team mate, despite the German turning in to the Australian's car during the manouevre.

Horner, whose team have started all seven races on pole position but won just three this season, said no orders had been given during the race for Vettel to pass Webber and both would retain equal status.

The Australian had led from pole position until his German team mate tried to overtake on the inside 18 laps from the finish.

"Having looked at all the information it's clear that it was a racing accident that shouldn't have happened between two team mates," said Horner.

"After looking at all the facts that weren't available immediately after the race, Dr. Marko also fully shares this view.

"The Turkish Grand Prix has been a costly lesson for both drivers and we are confident that this situation won't happen again," added Horner.

Webber leads the championship by five points ahead of next week's Canadian Grand Prix in Montreal, the eighth of 19 races. Vettel is fifth overall, 15 points adrift.

Horner said the drivers would clear the air before they went to Canada.
(Editing by Justin Palmer;
Report AFL June 2, 2010 7:44 AM BST
They have taken 2 positions now, Vettel was in the right, and now it's a racing incident. The obvious / correct  position that most commentators have taken that Vettel was 100% in the wrong for trying to force his line, without clearance, when it is occupied by another car.

It was a ridiculous move by Vettel to not concede the corner when he was on the wrong line, and then to duck in on your team-mate and take both cars out. It shows a blatant disregard for the Team's fortunes.

A desperate move by a boy/man, who from his pouting reactions to Webber's wins believes he has a divine right to this years Championship.

Different story though if his TEAM believes the same thing.
Report fkqmz June 2, 2010 2:06 PM BST
whilst i agree with your sentiment that vettle thinks the champiosnhip is his by right, id have to stand back from being critical of this. he has the best car and he has shown himself to be the better driver against webber since he joined red bull. he's hardly the first in this position to act arrogantly as if he has a divine right to the championship. im sure i dont need to quote examples.

as for the incident, id be interested to know how webber would have reacted if a car from another team had sneaked up his inside like that. based on webber v barrichello at nurburgring T1 last year, i think probably quite similarly. also thinking about the webber/vettel incident from nurburgring 07 i think webber just cant handle himself when making these big decisions under the pressure of wheel to wheel conflict.

for me, he's no better than ralf and will not be able to maintain championship winning form for a whole season. i do hope im worng though, its about time australia had a WDC!
Report Help2 June 2, 2010 4:14 PM BST
how can people say that Vettel deserve a championship, because he is the better then webber! well hamilton was the best in 2008 and Raikkonen won!

But about the crash... i still believe its Webber that took the wrong line into the corner! Where was he going?? on the grass? i still believe 40-60 vetter-webber!
Report AFL June 3, 2010 7:16 AM BST
Beg to differ on who is the better racer. Webber on a head to head basis against his teammates  has never lost a season.
As it stands now he has finished in front of Vettel 13 times, and Vettel has finished in front of him 11 times. If Vettel has the faster car...that says something about how, as a racer Webber has managed this score line with a slower car.
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