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dj876
11 Jan 16 17:50
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Date Joined: 01 Jul 10
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There seems to be a policy of utilising jockeys attached to stables as the cover jockey rather than an official deputy or a centralized decision making process.

We have consistently seen David Mullins and Ruby riding the WPM trained Gigginstown runners when Cooper isn't available. Johnny Burke (10-5) rode the grade 2 juvenile winner at Christmas when Cooper/Ruby were in Kempton. It's rare enough to see Russell riding the WPM trained ones but his minimum weight is 10-8.

Jack Kennedy seems to ride a decent proportion of the Elliot trained ones.Russell also rides Elliot's Giggy (including Prince of scars defeating Alpha des Obeaux)runners and a lot of Mouses.

The Choice of the Dons - Gold Cup

Are we gong to have a unique scenario where both trainers will be hoping the "retained jockey" doesn't ride.

Will Cooper actually make the decision? Despite what you will hear in interviews I doubt he will. Michael and Eddie will make the call but publicly will say it was Cooper's call.

There is some contrast when looking at Don Cossack's last four competitive races, the King George/Ryanair (Cooper) versus Aintree (McCoy) and Punchestown (Carberry)

There aren't many jockeys that are 5lbs better than Jack Kennedy but it's still a bit embarrassing for Cooper. At Fairyhouse last weekend in a 20k (only) hcap Kennedy rides UDB while Cooper who was at the meeting didn't ride in the race.

Yesterday in a 100k hcap Kennedy rides the 9/4 fav and Cooper on an 11/1 shot. I can understand this one a bit more as it was a massive pot but would you damage your retained jockey's confidence over a small hcap. One thing is for certain the retained jockey doesn't have the choice. A trend set to continue?

There have obviously being other instances where retained jockeys are on the wrong one- be it a stroke,minimum riding weight issues etc but can't really remember an instance where the retained jockey was so obviously dropped when eligible to ride the fancied horses in a mundane race such as the race at Fairyhouse last w/e.

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Replies: 84
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 16 17:55
Who rides the Don that Cooper doesn't ride in the Gold Cup?

We can presume Rupert will be in pink (long odds on to be Djack imo)

Would they go for Russell in either scenario with the experience etc. I have a feeling WPM will want Davy Mullins on Don Poli if Cooper is on Don Cossack.

From a Gigginstown point of view,it probably makes more sense that Cooper doesn't ride Don Cossack when taking into account the KG/Ryanair.
By:
kavvie
When: 11 Jan 16 18:05
if vautour runs in gc rupert will be on it..no doubt
By:
mincer11
When: 11 Jan 16 18:09
My guess and it is pure and simple just that is that you are correct regarding both trainers would like Cooper not to be riding their charge.
What i think will happen is that Don Poli will be ridden by Townend and Don Cossack by Cooper with Road To Riches being the mount of Russell, assuming that tool Carberry isnt back from injury well before the festival.
If Cooper is put on Don Poli by Gigginstown, then Russell will ride Elliots and maybe David Mullins may get a chance on Meades.
Russell is a 1000/1 to ride Don Poli i would have thought.
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 16 18:16

Jan 11, 2016 -- 6:05PM, kavvie wrote:


if vautour runs in gc rupert will be on it..no doubt


Yes, I think he runs in pink also as stated above.

With the doubt about Vautour's partcipation in the race,I think it's fair to say that Ruby is well odds on to be on Djack (as outright prices would suggest) so not sure what the point of your post was Kavvie.

I would have thought R2R would run in the Ryanair Mincer not because that race would particularly suit him but he has obviously the least chance of the 3 in the GC and they normally split the arrows a bit with the sponsored race.

By:
DECALEC
When: 11 Jan 16 18:20
Is THE Clare man not allowed an oplnion
By:
mincer11
When: 11 Jan 16 18:21
Id be surprised if Road To riches runs in the Ryanair, its odds on Vautour runs in that and there wont be a que to take that on. Again thats my own opinion, but alot can happen in the meantime. The Pillar and Hennessy will surely have a big bearing on who goes where.
By:
kavvie
When: 11 Jan 16 18:28
my point is/was if vautour and djak run in gc ruby rides  vautour.surely not too difficult to understand.so he will be in pink for sure.but it will be vautour if he runs.
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 16 18:30
Of course he is but it's stating the complete obvious.

We all know that if Vautour lines up for the GC then Ruby would ride.

We can presume Rupert will be in pink (long odds on to be Djack imo)

He was replying to the above so not sure what he was contending,if he was saying I think it's odds on that Vautour lines up then it would be a viewpoint not already stated and not implied by the odds.
By:
DECALEC
When: 11 Jan 16 18:42
Maybe HE just thinks THERE is a stronger chance than the market implies where Vatour ends up
By:
frank60
When: 11 Jan 16 18:47
Don C is running at thurles on Thursday, i think price wise Road to riches is the best value ,interesting thread a lot of guess work at this stage as to the rideing arrangements,makes the Gold cup all the more interesting .
By:
kavvie
When: 11 Jan 16 19:10
im a vautour fan and had a good bet on him in kg.i wasnt taken by wps pessimistic pre race interview.none the less the horse ran well for as wp said one that peaks in spring.i also think his jumping going right handed is just adequate,id say he jumped 3 very well the rest adequately in kg.if he runs and jumps well in cg he will win it.remember after best mate was btn in kg "they" said he was a doubtful stayer..ruby rides him conservatively to top of the hill then he winds it up and wins easily.    thats my take on it anyway..best horse best jockey best trainer.simple!!
By:
one last chance
When: 11 Jan 16 19:16
I'd be very surprised if RTR was in the Ryanair are people forgetting he was only length or so behind in last years gold cup !!!
By:
workrider
When: 11 Jan 16 19:36
The implication seems to be that Cooper is suffering a loss of confidence again , at least thats my take on the op remarks , far from it is what I say,granted he made a horlicks of the ride last year ,but hes a much better rider this year having had his wobbles earlier on .Try go down to the last fence at a meeting DJ and watch this lad present his horse at the last . The best presenter of a horse at the last bar none...Cooper will ride Don in the Gold Cup.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 11 Jan 16 19:40
I agree with you WR, don't think there is even so much as a hint of question over it actually myself.
By:
Tolmi
When: 11 Jan 16 19:54
I would imagine if Djakadam goes for the GC then Vautour runs in the Ryanair.
Having looked numerous times at the KG I am in no doubt that Don Cossack would have won despite not being suited by the track and not jumping particularly well.That would have left Vautour finishing third in a race he looked all over a winner.Being run down by CC who is not a renowned stayer will have set alarm bells ringing in the camp for any attempt at 2 and 1/2 furlongs further.
Admittedly Vautour is definitely better going left handed and seems to peak at Cheltenham but I can't see both of Ricci's clashing and leaving an eminently winnable Ryanair behind.
By:
mincer11
When: 11 Jan 16 20:00
Wonks, Cooper will ride Don in the Gold Cup, thats one of your better ones.
And as for presenting one at the last, are you having a laugh ?
By:
workrider
When: 11 Jan 16 20:05
Point me in the direction were he last downed a horse at the last, off out for a couple of hours so you'll have plenty of time to look it up...
By:
mincer11
When: 11 Jan 16 20:14
Point me in the direction of which Don he will ride wonks if you can ?
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 16 21:43
workrider • December 28, 2015 4:34 PM GMT
You there today MJK ? . Been backing Cooper all week hes shambolic , cant get it right from the front or when coming from behind ,shocking from the lad ,guess who i backed in the Lexus , RUBY  Cry


A bit of a change from your stance a couple of weeks ago. Anyone that thinks Cooper is riding well over the last 18 months is in cloud cuckoo land.

Winning on No More Heroes or in a maiden hurdle with a stone in hand doesn't mean anything.

At Christmas alone shockers on Don Cossack,Tombstone and Identity Thief. Alpha des Obeaux was hardly a well judged ride either.

MOL stated after Don Poli in the Lexus that Bryan needed that considering the last few days.

There is an ever increasing concentration of Gigginstown horse with WPM/Elliot,this isn't a positive for Cooper.

Any views on Jack Kennedy riding Bright New Dawn and Unic de Bersy in the last week?

Simply utilising his valuable claim or concerning for Cooper?
By:
snap crackle and pop
When: 11 Jan 16 21:45
Can be easily passed off as utilising his valuable claim, when in reality its a different case entirely
By:
Arklearkle
When: 11 Jan 16 21:48
I reckon Cooper rides Cossack in the GC. If Vautour runs in GC, which I believe it does, Ruby rides. Everyone wants to win the GC but especially Giggi RR and WM and they will point all their thunder that way - Giggi obviously would like to have a decent runner in the Ryanair but anything with a good chance of winning the GC will be there and that includes R2R imo.
By:
workrider
When: 11 Jan 16 22:21
I already adhered to his recent wobbles in my post DJ, please read again , fact is he presents a horse wonderfully at a fence , you obviously don't like the lad,I on the other hand see him been the number 1 for giggy for years to come , he had a mare over the Xmas no doubt, but he starts the new year on a high.Mincer Cossack is the Don. I see you failed to bring up ONE instance of him falling over the last, pity Ruby wouldnt take a leaf out of his book...
By:
TellTheKing
When: 11 Jan 16 22:53
There’s two scenario’s for the Irish runners (and, therefore, jockey arrangements) in the Gold Cup. Assuming all horses and riders arrive there healthy I would suspect the following are the most likely bookings:

Vautour Runs in Ryanair:
Djakadam - Ruby Walsh
Don Cossack - Bryan Cooper
Don Poli - Paul Townend
Road To Riches - Paul Carberry (failing that Richard Johnson)
Valseur Lido - Davy Russell
On His Own - Patrick Mullins

Vautour Runs In Gold Cup:
Vautour - Ruby Walsh
Djakadam - Paul Townend
Don Cossack - Bryan Cooper
Don Poli - Davy Russell
Road To Riches - Paul Carberry (failing that Richard Johnson)
Valseur Lido - Jonathan Burke (failing that David Mullins)
On His Own - Patrick Mullins

Hard to see Vautour running when connections have such a cast iron candidate in Djakadam. Equally, hard to see Cooper not riding Don Cossack. He is the operations flagship horse and it would look terrible if he didn’t ride him.

Wouldn’t say that Jack Kennedy would get a spin bar there was multiple injury absences. Jonathan Burke might be next in line for any high profile spares due to his experience advantage with David Mullins next in line. Haven’t checked but I doubt Kennedy has had a ride of the chase course in his short career (wouldn’t even be a year with a licence in March).

As you will see, there is nothing new in the above post as I think riding arrangements for the top three in the betting are fairly straightforward.
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 16 23:24
I don't think anyone suggested Kennedy would be riding in the Gold Cup though there will be surely a demand for him in the handicaps.

TTK - Did you think anything of Jack Kennedy riding Unic de Bersy (12-1) and  Bright New Dawn yesterday?

Again not for a second suggesting that Jack Kennedy would be the next Giggy retainer (Townend or perhaps David Mullins) but it looks like he is being undermined or being posed a question. (or simply utilising the claim with Gordon making the call)

No matter how good a claimer is,generally owners will put their confidence in the retained jockey.

I think that this Cheltenham festival is vital for Cooper, there are question marks over his big race temperament and O'Leary's comments at Christmas would hardly distill absolute confidence.

Do you think Mullins and Elliot will be very keen for Cooper to choose their Don?
By:
firstimevisor
When: 11 Jan 16 23:30
Assuming Cooper rides Cossack, then I would  happily take evens Ruby will ride Poli, regardless of who else WPM runs.
By:
The Gotchee
When: 11 Jan 16 23:35
You are talking through your hole dj.
By:
snap crackle and pop
When: 11 Jan 16 23:35
Are you havin a giraffe firstimevisor?
By:
firstimevisor
When: 11 Jan 16 23:39
No
By:
snap crackle and pop
When: 11 Jan 16 23:41
You can happily have all the evens in the world you want off me on that anyway
By:
CheltenhamRoar
When: 11 Jan 16 23:42
If Cooper does have the choice then I'd have a feeling he'd side with Don Poli just by the way he spoke about him after winning the Lexus.
By:
TellTheKing
When: 11 Jan 16 23:42
And FTV I would happily lay you that bet. Ruby would be riding in the RR colours even if it was Ballycasey rather than the other two running in the Gold Cup.

Elliot mentioned the Martin Pipe for Diamond King with Kennedy already marked down for the spin. He will surely be riding Elliots other handicap horses where there isn’t already a retained rider involved.

It was pretty strange alright DJ that Cooper didn’t switch onto Bright New Dawn. To be honest I was surprised he wasn’t going to Fairyhouse in the first place rather than Tramore given the book of rides available at the much better track. It’s clear from studying the body language of all involved in the Gigginstown operation over christmas that things aren’t exactly peachy. It wouldn’t be correct to say that Cooper has been riding badly all year. Perhaps it’s an even worse assertion to say that the quality of his riding has been very inconsistent.

There’s little question that Willie would want Townend on Don Poli. Elliot is probably already resigned to Cooper riding Don Cossack. If given the free choice he would probably side with Russell (or Jason mature in a perfect world if he was fit).
By:
TellTheKing
When: 11 Jan 16 23:43
*Maguire not mature.
By:
firstimevisor
When: 11 Jan 16 23:48
Cooper's choice is the most difficult of all. I agree, he may well ride Poli but if not then Ruby will ride what he thinks is his best chance of winning and I believe that is Don Poli.
By:
snap crackle and pop
When: 11 Jan 16 23:50
5/4 if you want it!
By:
TellTheKing
When: 11 Jan 16 23:50
The only way Ruby rides Don Poli is if neither Djakadam or Vautour run. Ruby might be an excellent talker and leverages his weight well but there’s no way RR releases him for the Gold Cup.
By:
firstimevisor
When: 11 Jan 16 23:51
Ruby is first jockey to Willie Mullins, not Rich Ricci.
By:
TellTheKing
When: 11 Jan 16 23:53
Ruby has a retainer from Rich Ricci.
By:
firstimevisor
When: 11 Jan 16 23:58
Thats the first I've heard of it. Since when has this come about?
By:
snap crackle and pop
When: 12 Jan 16 00:01
6/4.....
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