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wildmanfromborneo
10 Oct 14 09:59
Joined:
Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 21,252 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
UKIP got 60% of the vote in Clacton winning the seat in a landslide.
Lost out by 613 votes in the Labour stronghold of Heywood.

They now have a chance of holding the balance of power at the next election which would guarantee a referendum on the EU.
Pause Switch to Standard View The Unstoppable Rise Of UKIP
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Report tony57 October 17, 2014 8:16 PM BST
I have to disagree mate,..i think panorama, just reported what some ex members have already put on record,..and also stated farage likes to be the boss..it was obvious Wildman that he was redirecting party funds to his own campaign, I don't like politicians that don't want to go on a certain show..cos its all they are against us..., labour have it that with the press for 30 yrs..the majority all support the tories...but labour still give interviews to them...?personally I think the bbc have been very good to ukip?
Report wildmanfromborneo October 17, 2014 8:23 PM BST
This present Labour Party despise the working class.

Its populated by a host of wealthy feminists all in the legal profession,there concerns are gay marriage and longer maternity leave real middle class concerns.

Farage is a privately educated ex banker but he understands the British working class,he is their only friend,only spokesman.
Report tony57 October 17, 2014 8:24 PM BST
you make a valid point Wildman..when the working class vote labour they hold there nose...
Report workrider October 17, 2014 9:01 PM BST
The EU has its agenda. Its simply this , fill Europe with cheap labour , we all know how that's done , there are 2 companies in Dublin who have MORE foreign workers than Irish ...
Report mightymoyes October 17, 2014 9:08 PM BST
on what planet are ex-tory thatherites friends of the working class?
Report sean rua October 18, 2014 11:13 AM BST
They're not our friends on any planet, mm.

The so-called middleclasses are now pushing this short-lived ukp as another decoy and sop for the workers to get distracted by.
All this, while we should be preparing for the real revolution.
'Tis not a good idea to take our eye off the ball.

Just to illustrate how gullible the English public can be, here are a few names of their former show-bizz heroes:

J. Saville.
D.L. Travers
E Heath
M Thatcher
A. Blair
J. Yates
R. Harris.
H. Webb/CR

Be careful at all times.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 18, 2014 12:57 PM BST
You keep trying to portray UKIP as Thatcherite.

Their main policy is anti immigration,that is also the concern of most people.

Immigration is wanted by big business and a raft of dependant quangos,its supported by well heeled Labour Party women.

The people most affected by immigration are the working class,its their jobs get taken,their hospital beds occupied,their houses get allocated to the new arrivals,their areas get taken over,their children's school places taken.
Report tony57 October 18, 2014 12:59 PM BST
Wildman states a fact..immigration does hurt the working man more..
Report sean rua October 19, 2014 3:09 PM BST
Sure, under capitalism everything hurts the working man more. That's fundamental. The system is not geared up for  the working man; it is run for the benefit of the ruling class.

Obviously, the working class being the biggest means most immigrants are working class. Of course, since the big sell off of assets in UK - started by M. Thatcher - the means of production and much vital infrastructure is probably owned by more foreigners now than ever before in England's history.

We're not talking here about the Normans, but much later times, after the industrial revolution.
Indeed, without the vast natural resources taken from her huge Empire, and without the labour of slaves and Irish immigrants, an without the coal-miners, the English would not have scaled the heights they did.

All my working life I held my own in competition with all-comers. One thing I noticed is that when the economy goes bad - which is natural under the cycle of capitalism - the locals, be they Australians, Americans or Englishmen start bleating and reckon they want "their" jobs back.
Before that, when they're having it easy on the Gravy Train they're happy enough to sit back and puff a cigar while Paddy takes the strain.
This is how it was with the carworkers: let Paddy do all the sh it and hard graft; we'll do the easy bit 'cause we're skilled and clever fkrs.

We've seen it all before; time and time again.
Wait and see: to ssers like ukp will NOT help the working people. How the fk could they?
Report mightymoyes October 19, 2014 4:53 PM BST
good post, UKIP are only interested in making sure their corporate masters stay rich and get richer on the back of the the working class. they dont give a stuff about them.
Report tony57 October 19, 2014 5:09 PM BST
well put sean...
     I don't support ukip as ive explained b4 but the working class has been let down by labour for too long and ukip are exploiting that
Report Ozymandius October 19, 2014 5:16 PM BST
What exactly is it ye working classes want? 

Success and fortune handed to ye on a plate?  All ye seem to do is whinge.  That ain't going to help you get ahead.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 19, 2014 7:59 PM BST
Its the working class who will put their lives on the line in the event of war
Its the working class that created the wealth enjoyed by Britain today

Britain has been de industrialised in a craven capitulation to the advocates of globalisation.
British industry should have been protected.
British jobs should have been protected.

The twin attack of subsidising illegitimacy and Multiculturism has looted the British working class male of all his certainties,it has now placed him in a state of permanent adolescent and to me is pure sad.
Report Ozymandius October 19, 2014 8:18 PM BST
Thank God, we never had a real working class.  You are right to say that at present they are an embarrassment to Britain.

If the Brits had been as productive as say their German equivalents, as skilled, less Unionised and less in love with downing tools, then they wouldn't have needed protecting in the first place.  Not that protection has ever worked.

That's one of the reasons the City prospered.  They knew they needed to graft, develop the necessary skills and be world class to prosper.   So they got on with it.  No protection required.  In fact the less the better.
Report Ozymandius October 19, 2014 8:21 PM BST
And it didn't matter a damn if you were a Polish mathematical whizz, or a Sheik salesman or a Paddy trader.  Just that you  were good. 

No artificial 'protection of British Jobs', just an opportunity on their doorstep to succeed if they had what it took.  the way it should be.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 19, 2014 8:42 PM BST
There are elements of truth in your first reply.

I don't accept that protectionism doesn't work same as I don't believe in unfettered capitalism.

The fact is that Britain led the world in so many industries,they had the skilled workforce but they let it slip away by in some cases lunatic Union practices but in other cases letting firms go to the wall too quick.

British planes
British cars
British motorbikes
British guns.
All were the best in the world at some stage.
Report sean rua October 20, 2014 9:24 AM BST
Yes, Britain was the first to industrialise and the last to modernise. Almost all the industrial nations, who seemed to overtake, did so by having a miserable, beholden, working class ( some because they were after losing a major war, which is totally natural under capitalism.) and others using immigrants.

Boom, Bust, War.
Round and round the cycle goes.
Petty party politics has little effect on this integral factor of capitalism.

Nowhere is the stupidity of it all better illustrated than in the City of London. Here total di cks make huge fortunes playing with other people's money.
For some reason  - probably the result of indoctrination and social brainwashing - the vast majority of the population, whom they impoverish, seem to think that these city slickers are the bees-knees, and that we should all admire the to ssers because they are so clever.

Any of us who take part in gambling know full well that the future is uncertain. These cnts have no better crystal ball than do we, BUT, they do have much better access to inside information which comes, as ever, from the ruling clique(s). These rulers vie with each other for the very best returns. The pawns in the silly game are, of course, the working classes, who have to pick up the crumbs from the cake that they baked.
Same ol', same old.

Yes, the puritans are forever on about the virtues of hard work, but, when we scrutinise what actually goes down in their chosen system, we clearly see that the further a man gets away from basic, primary, production, the better he is "rewarded by the socio-economic" system.
That is one important reason why our half-educated childers choose to study wishy-washy, bullshi t, subjects in order to get a cushy do-nothing job with a nice pension.

Obviously, capitalism, which is not a charity, but a hard-headed businees, cannot afford too much of this dead-wood, so it looks elsewhere, and, yes, there's always some fkr worse off or more gullible who will do the actual, essential work for a pittance.
Then, the whole cycle starts again.
When too many folk have copped on, we get what they call a "recession". NIne time out of ten this leads onto War.

After that, we return to flat-out boom conditions. Round and round spins the cycle. Wan kers at the top will call it the Wheel of Fortune. Why wouldn't they?

Check it out agin your history books. I've seen it first hand. This is the way the cookie crumbles, whether we like it or not.

And 'tis every bit as bad in Ireland, where 'tis rife and well-rewarded.
Report Ozymandius October 20, 2014 9:51 AM BST
Whinge, whinge, whinge.

Get yourself to the City and make your fortune so.  Should be dead easy for you to pit you wits against these not so clever 't0ssers' and  '****s'.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 20, 2014 12:35 PM BST
Why would he go to the city when he has had money fired at him by craven governments,he is one of those insiders posturing as an outsider.
Report mightymoyes October 20, 2014 5:44 PM BST
maybe his life doesnt revolve around how money he can make fleecing people.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 20, 2014 5:49 PM BST
He is on a gambling site,he is trying to get money of others on here.

You may use the emotive expression " fleecing people " but that's all it is pure emotionalism.
Report sean rua October 21, 2014 7:53 AM BST
Some very strange beating about the bush.
I tell it how I've seen it. My views don't come off some pressure-group pamphlet or from some professional academic's thesis.

No doubt, given the opportunity, I could have gambled in the City with some degree of success, but, I believe in principles and would never do it any more than become a paedo/gayer or vote for the conservative and unionist party.

Some things a man doesn't do, and turning my coat and kow-towing to the rulers is a no-no for me.
That others think differently is a pity, but not a personal problem.

Telling it how it is is not whingeing in my view.
The "begrudgery" that infects so many of our citizens who stayed at home on the ould sod is, thankfully, something I don't suffer from.
I put the mileage in and did my bit.
And no, I don't expect to get my reward in heaven, but I am waiting on a horse at Ludlow thursday.Happy
Report mrtopnotch October 21, 2014 3:32 PM BST
Westbritfromborneo - you wrote "The people most affected by immigration are the working class, its their jobs get taken, their hospital beds occupied, their houses get allocated to the new arrivals, their areas get taken over, their children's school places taken."

Can you please give me examples of fact on this quote ?
It looks like a racist agenda you are spooting and it's getting fairly tiresome!

I as an Irishman I suppose have taken a Brit's job over here , so that's one example
Report tony57 October 21, 2014 4:44 PM BST
Wildman is correct, about immigration  to some extent..the point is..when you let thousands of economic migrants enter uk from countries where the average wage is 75e a month..these people tho not their fault will have an impact on the host countries wages hospitals housing etc..no one is saying the people from countries with the same living standards is a problem...
Report mrtopnotch October 21, 2014 5:35 PM BST
Bullies especially racist ones from my experience don't like it when people stand up or contradict them ...I've been watching this feĺla for a few years, I'll leave it at that.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 21, 2014 6:20 PM BST
You haven't made any argument whatsoever.
Engaged in a bit of name calling,switched then to the usual bully racist charge and then ran away.

This is how they get away with it,make nonsensical charges don't engage just shout down.

This gentleman comes on with some abuse,is replied to civilly then comes back claiming he was bullied.

You have been watching me for a few years,spoken like a typical illiberal liberal its a wonder you haven't tried to have me arrested,you are brave though.
Report mrtopnotch October 21, 2014 6:58 PM BST
Never been a liberal and never been bullied, but have stood up to a few in my life, especially the racist ones
Report mightymoyes October 21, 2014 7:06 PM BST
how many brits or irish are stealing jobs in other countries?
Report wildmanfromborneo October 21, 2014 7:08 PM BST
You couldn't bet the odds on you work for the EU in some capacity in London.

Which is why you don't engage in argument just a bit of name callin,a bit of watching,a bit of protecting your patch without a concern for anyone else.

Brigid Laffan in a pin stripe suit.
Report mightymoyes October 21, 2014 7:12 PM BST
UKIP showing true colours today teaming up with polish neo-nazis for a few quid
Report mrtopnotch October 21, 2014 7:17 PM BST
What part of the UK do you live ?
Report wildmanfromborneo October 21, 2014 7:17 PM BST
They are right to get as much money as possible from the Evil Empire.

That same Evil Empire took our waters from us,waters that were teeming with fish,waters that have wave power the sooner we reclaim them the better.

They are also responsible for two wars,their nefarious ðealings in the Ukraine the worst.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 21, 2014 7:19 PM BST
Mrtopnotch if that question is directed at me it shows you to be not much of a watcher.

I'm from Tipperary and live there now.
Report mrtopnotch October 21, 2014 7:21 PM BST
Yeah i thought you were , what has the UK and UKIP idiots got to do with you in Tipp ?
Report wildmanfromborneo October 21, 2014 7:24 PM BST
I dislike the EU,think its an evil empire.

The only chance of Ireland leaving the EU is if the UK leave.

Apart from that I have an interest in all politics.
Report tony57 October 21, 2014 7:27 PM BST
hes entitled to his opinion..mrtop!..he lives in a e u country also..same as all of us..i don't agree with all Wildman says..but hes 75% right if not more....tbf..
Report mrtopnotch October 21, 2014 7:28 PM BST
I'd rather be in it and make it better , it is a fairly young entity still and it can be improved upon.
Report kingrat October 22, 2014 12:21 AM BST
tbf,i dont think its good enough to use the auld racist card when debating the effects of immigration,good,bad or whatever?its the same with the same sex marriage debate.any1 argueing against it and we have the auld homophobic card.
    fair minded people like to read,listen to the rational of debates,not bullsh1t.
Report sean rua October 22, 2014 9:36 AM BST
In the interests of kingrat's last sentence, which, imo, is fair comment, I'd like to remind folk yet again of two places:

Ellis Island

and

Wolverhampton.

'Twould be expected for ukp supporters of anti-immigration on this btfr forum to have never heard of the former; folk like horseburger, grimmy, bigmart, and the likes, but
I would hope that every Irishman who can think at all would know a bit about Ellis island.

Second, good old Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England - a place where many an Irishman AND his family- there or back home - did well.
As i pointed out on here ages ago, a google of " Wolverhampton in the 1860s" used to bring up some right anti-Irish stuff. They moreorless made out we were donkeys and pigs who were fking up their land.
Check it out yourself, though I think it might have been removed from the internet now. Basically, without going into all the evils we were said to bring, the conclusion was positive. It said that, all these years later assimilation of so many Irish into Wolver society had left a peaceful mix ( no pun intended) and that almost all the white folk in the area had some Irish connection.

One notable point was, that all those years before, some rulers said the same things about us as did Enoch about the blacks a hundred years later.
'Twas also the same sort of stuff that the Americans said about us the time of the Big Hunger.

Nowadays, these ukp gravy-train- riding chancers - many of whom seem to be signed on the rock and roll or retired - are spouting about east europeans, germans, and every fkr else.

Don' it make your brown eyes blue!?

Time to cop on.
The next thing the ****s will come out with will likely be that " all Irish Republicans are rapists" or some such sh ite.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 22, 2014 10:36 AM BST
The Irish that went to Wolverhampton in the 1860s were not immigrants.

" tosses "  " chancers ". Idiots " disagree with their ordinary views but why all the name calling,its done to create fear and it works in that women tend not to declare their support for UKIP.
Despite all this the most impressive UKIP performers seem to be women.
Report frank60 October 22, 2014 5:14 PM BST
I have to say i was disapointed with the 35% turn out in the Dublin soutwest by election a few weeks back, if the 65% who did,nt vote had there votes taken from them they would be up in arms, [or at least most of them] I was impressed by Paul Murphy when i had a chat with him and was happy to see him win ahead of sinn fein.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 23, 2014 7:41 AM BST
Ladbrokes are now refusing to sell poppies in their shops.
This is not a commercial decision as the gentlemen who burn poppies don't bet,this is a fear of being attacked.

The song UKIP calypso has been withdrawn by Mike Read again out of fear,he feared he would lose his job but he also feared being attacked.
Report sean rua October 23, 2014 8:57 AM BST
I don't quite understand your statement, wilde.

" The Irish who went to Wolverhampton in the 1860s were not immigrants."

A very strange thing to say, imo. For years clever folk from the irish ruling classes have been chatting about "migration" and "population loss".

Irish people have been among the biggest group of migrants the world has ever seen. Nowadays, 'tis estimated that a that a quarter to a third of Wolver's white population are of Irish descent.
If you googled and read the article, you will note that the " Bishop of Wolverhampton" ( Protestant, I guess) stated that something must be done to halt the influx of the "dirty, poor, Irish".

And, btw, yes, we use rough, direct, and possibly upsetting language, but, then, I don't suppose we can all be as "politically correct" as your good self.
And another thing, while we're on, please quit inventing things that are not true to say about me. It doesn't help your case.
On the other hand, if I do or say something wrong, you have every entitlement to slag me over it. There is no need for the make-believe assumptions. That's the sort of thing that ukp- supporting btfr forumites would do.
I think you're better than that.
Report Ozymandius October 23, 2014 9:06 AM BST
please quit inventing things that are not true to say about me.

It's his trademark, I am afraid.  Don't worry nobody pays much notice.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 24, 2014 12:47 AM BST
The reason the Irish who went to Wolverhampton in the 1860s were not immigrants is it was there country.

The Irish who went in the twentieth century contributed whereas today's immigrant only contribute to the prison population.
Report Ozymandius October 24, 2014 9:46 AM BST
today's immigrant only contribute to the prison population.

what utter nonsense.
Report pa lapsy October 24, 2014 10:26 AM BST
What UKIP claims and are the basis in their fight for Rochester(past the post)

Cameron pledged to cut immigration; UKIP,he has failed miserably,in 2014 net migration is up by 38% to 243,000.
Cameron promised a crackdown on immigrant benefits, he again failed,UK taxpayers are spending £5 billion a year on tax credits for migrant workers.

(shooting the messenger is not allowed btw)
Report mightymoyes October 24, 2014 11:30 PM BST
wildmanfromborneo    Joined: 30 Nov 10
Replies: 15325 24 Oct 14 00:47 
The reason the Irish who went to Wolverhampton in the 1860s were not immigrants is it was there country.
----------

is that even english?
Report wildmanfromborneo October 24, 2014 11:39 PM BST
Its English alright,what part are you having difficulty with ?

You may not like some historical facts but that doesn't change the reality.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 12:34 PM GMT
Came across this post on Chit Chat and would lagely agree with the sentiment;

Clungehungry 25 Oct 14 22:17

It's not a perfect system, far from it, it would indeed be better if the idle nationals were pressed to work, but if we're failing to do that, getting a large quantity of hard-working immigrants, paying taxes and contributing, is a good second best. They shouldn't have to support the feckless, but they do. By all means reform the benefits system, but for every lardarse signed off for 20 years, there is an immigrant working their ass off.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 26, 2014 5:31 PM GMT
I tried to reply to Sean Rua on numerous occasions but they were all deleted.

They even deleted Sean Rua civil reasoned post.

Its hard to know on what grounds a historical statement is deemed offensive.

The Act of Union of 1800 created the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland,that is a historical fact.
That in turn meant that the Irish who settled in Wolverhampton in the 1860s were not immigrants.

I was asked by two posters to clarify that fact which is what I have done.
Report tony57 October 26, 2014 8:01 PM GMT
don't know where you got that from oz..but its bull..CLUNGEHUNGRY, clearly is not living around migrants?..and is not worried about whats going on in france were 1000s..are trying to make my country struggle even more..all this crap the feckless..where are they..in this country there are no feckless..Britain now has the most stringent benefit entitlement in the eu??..the argument does not stand up..tell what other country makes its injured soldiers not entitled to sickness benefit? even amputees are refused disability benefits ffs?...this is all nonsense I can assure you one thing this government has done is stopped 75% of claims for help..and now makes charities feed the consequences?
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
It is true that some of the won't work.

Yer man clunge will only rent to immigrants, he sees Polish uni grads getting up at 5AM working 2 and 3 min wage gigs that most indigenous people wouldn't go near.  no shortage of jobs in UK if prepared to work.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 8:36 PM GMT
Clungehungry 26 Oct 14 12:46 Joined: 14 Feb 11 | Topic/replies: 9,283 | Blogger: Clungehungry's blog

I work in a far from affluent area, and still a good third of the jobs in our supermarket are taken by overseas workers. It doesn't mean they're better than British people, it means they're better than lazy British people. We've had three Poles through here in the last two years, all working for minimum wage, all with university degrees. They're not stealing anyone's jobs, they're just doing a better job. I only take lodgers who can get work, and they all, whether they are from the UK or elsewhere - do - if you are healthy and you can't find work it's because you're too lazy to do so. Blaming someone who gets off their arse and travels hundreds of miles to a foreign country to get up at 5am and work for just over 6 quid an hour is no excuse for your laziness.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 8:46 PM GMT
There are few countries in the world where a man could go from working the docks at 15, to hob-nobbing it as an Owner in the Sport of Kings, at age 47, despite a limited intellect, no understanding of the appropriate usage of the question mark and all the disadvantages that a Scouse accent conveys.

That to me is living prof that anything is possible in the Britain of today.  Arise Sir Tony, the Bumper King Cool
Report pa lapsy October 26, 2014 8:49 PM GMT
A lot of posts taken off here,surprised no one is shocked by UKIP's claim of 243,000 migrants taken in so far this year,i find it a staggering number,it is almost two "Cork Cities".Surely it is time for the UK to leave the EU? They have no choice under current legislation except to allow them in. After getting that bill off the EU(Irelands 157m a bit sickening,weren't all the feckin eejits that changed their minds for Lisbon promised a utopia).
Won't be the biggest surprise that Cameron changes complete tack shortly and leaves it,the country is too small. With an open door policy between Ireland and the Uk is it not inconceivable that this will cause problems for Irelands future?
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:00 PM GMT
Roma gypies are a tiny minority and shouldn't be used to smear the rest of the immigrant community.

Are you proposing some sort of Communist purge whereby business no longer strive to maximise profits?  Good luck with that!
Report wildmanfromborneo October 26, 2014 9:08 PM GMT
The UK are housing thousands of Roma in the Page Hall area of Sheffield,they are drawing benefits and getting extra money from begging and stealing,its paradise to them.
You can hardly blame the Roma for trying to all move to their very own El Dorado.

Yet no one asked the people of Page Hall,no one asked the people of Sheffield.

I have no problem with companies making profit,I have a problem with them underpaying their staff.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:16 PM GMT
very little incentive to start businesses in UK or create employment if you are proposing a hike in wage levels.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:19 PM GMT
not to  mention the inflationary effects.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 26, 2014 9:22 PM GMT
What's the point in that type of employment.

I don't accept that business can only set up in places with low wages.

A fair compromise would be let them into work but don't let them settle.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:25 PM GMT
what like gulags or work camps?
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:26 PM GMT
Or perhaps like the Apartheid system where 'they' had little ID cards for travelling to work but then had to return to their own settlements to live.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 26, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
Just don't give them free houses,don't let them skip the queue,don't let them claim benefits.

No one should be able to get anything from a system they haven't contributed to.

The wealth the British people created is theirs its their birthright.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:41 PM GMT
Be very careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater;

***********************************************************************

Migrants who came to the UK after the year 2000 have made a ‘substantial’ contribution to public finances, according to a 2013 study by University College London. Those from the European Economic Area (EEA – the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) made a particularly strong contribution in the decade up to 2011, contributing 34 per cent more in taxes than they received in benefits. According to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), 16.6 per cent of working age UK nationals claimed benefits in 2012 compared to 6.6 per cent of working age non-UK nationals.

And this makes sense. Would you fork out hundreds of pounds for a plane ticket to go and claim £72.40 a week in Jobseeker’s Allowance in a strange country? No, I didn’t think so.
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
Foreign workers were usually contributors to the economy, suggesting reducing immigration could be financially counterproductive and mean it takes longer for the Treasury to balance the books.

Chote told the Treasury select committee: "Because they're more likely to be working age, they're more likely to be paying taxes and less likely to have relatively large sums of money spent on them for education, for long-term care, for healthcare, for pension expenditure."
Report Ozymandius October 26, 2014 9:46 PM GMT
The latest reports – one from the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration at University College London, the other from the National Institute for Economic and Social Research – looked at two aspects of migration.
The first considered the net fiscal cost or benefit of relatively recent arrivals, in particular from European countries. The second examined the impact on worker productivity and the attitudes of employers and workers.

The UCL study concluded that between 1995 and 2011, immigrants from the European Economic Area contributed £8.8bn more than they received in benefits. That compared with a drain on the nation’s finances of £604.5bn by native Britons. More recent migrants contributed even more, the study found.

“Our analysis suggests that rather than being a drain on the UK’s fiscal system, immigrants arriving since the early 2000s have made substantial net contributions to [the UK’s] public finances, a reality that contrasts starkly with the view often maintained in public debate,” the report concludes.

“Between 2001 and 2011, recent EEA immigrants contributed to the fiscal system 34 per cent more than they took out, with a net fiscal contribution of about £22.1bn,” the study said. Migrants from non-EEA countries made a more modest but still positive contribution, putting in roughly 2 per cent more than they took out.

But over the same period, native Britons paid much less into the system than they took out in benefits, contributing only 89 per cent of what they cost. Even when the data are adjusted to take account of differences with the native population in gender mix, age and educational attainment, recent immigrants are still 21 per cent less likely than natives to be receiving benefits.

Separately, the NIESR study looked at the effects of immigration on worker productivity – the value of the output produced by each worker – and concluded that those industries with higher shares of migrant workers had higher labour productivity. The correlation was particularly noticeable in the manufacturing and real estate sectors.

“Our analyses show a positive and significant association between immigration and labour productivity growth in the time period analysed,” NIESR found, noting that each 1.0 per cent rise in the immigrant share of employment is associated with an increase in labour productivity of 0.06 to 0.07 per cent.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 27, 2014 9:36 AM GMT
Overall immigration is financially positive,that's a given.
That doesn't mean all immigration is fiscally positive.

The least you need is managed immigration,its the open door policy that is ruinous for Britain.
You can't take in all the old and the sick of Eastern Europe.

Its now too far gone,its actually one giant Ponzi scheme,you need a new batch of immigrants to pay for the previous batch.

When Germany was being reunited they were asked do you want to reunite knowing it will cost you,they to their credit said yes.

If you look at on a strictly financial basis press on but you must look at the impact its having on your country.

" the purpose of mass immigration was to change the country provide more votes for Labour and rub the rights nose in it "
That was Labour policy in 2004.
Report tony57 October 27, 2014 1:17 PM GMT
we all know you were born with a silver spoon oz...but does that mean you are clever? strange if this is so..no sign of it on here..only vindictive ramblings..?
Report sean rua October 27, 2014 1:28 PM GMT
Because of inexplicable censorship on here, this is quite a difficult thread to follow. Chunks seem to be missing. Sometimes my words are deleted, even before I press the "send" button.

I suppose 'tis something to do with the English laws relating to treason and sedition.
Anyway, nothing new: we are used to the truth being suppressed.

Btw, thankyou, wilde, for persevering and managing to get your reply through. Obviously, as I pay scant regard to legal niceties, I still reject your argument that the Irish immigrants to Wolverhampton were British.
I agree, that, technically, they may well have been classed by our masters as " British Subjects". I'd doubt if most of our folk had passports  or could even read or write.
We came on cattle boats and were only allowed in as fodder to the mills, mines, and heavy industries of rip-roaring capitalist Britain.

Anyway, the point is/was that, despite the fkn Bishop of Wolverhampton calling for a stop to the influx of "dirty Irish"- many of whom could not speak English -
all these years later we have assimilated into the local populace.
Indeed, I'd go so far as to say that our people's descendents are probably more liked and respected than are those of the Tans - many of whom came from Staffordshire.

'Twould be these descendents of tans who now clamour for support of pressure groups like edl and ukp.

All very sad, really.

I hope this message gets through. Just shows what we are up against in our struggle to be heard.
Report wildmanfromborneo October 28, 2014 7:42 AM GMT
Sean we have more in common than you think.
I too object to the censorship on here,there was not a single offensive word in all the removed posts.

Age wise,family wise and dare I say it education wise we are similar.

The Irish who went to Wolverhampton were not British but neither were they immigrants.
You make fair points about language and assimilation but funnily enough it was the Irish who were most against immigration.
The leadership of the EDL were nearly all second generation Irish.

Mrtopnotch dubbed me Westbritfromborneo,you said I yearned to be British ( I don't ) however I grew to admire their culture and history.
I am a proud Irishman and a republican,I believe in a united Ireland,I don't think you have to hate the English to hold these views.

Its not immigration that's the problem its the scale of immigration and its unsustainable.
Report sean rua October 28, 2014 11:38 AM GMT
A very reasonable post, if I may say so, wilde, though I'm still inclined to disagree.

I think few realise that, like the system I believe in, "freedom of speech" does not really exist. We've always known this - especially those of us who oppose the rulers.
However, one disturbing thing about the current situation is that some folk seemingly are able to say any old abusive or enflaming sh ite on these here "social media" things and get away with it (also true on here to a certain extent, I guess).

This makes folk think they have "freedom of speech" but, imo, behind it all the powers are deciding what they allow through.

Back to other matters: I can honestly say that GB and America and Australia, in my experience, have been good places for the Irishman and his family.
For myself, I get far better treatment in any of these than I would in Ireland. Maybe the man who migrated is different from the man who never had to budge far out of the parish? Dunno.

Anyway, things could be worse. When I think of Waterford, I thank fk that I'm a Pavee and not a Roma. There's always somebody worse off!BlushSadPlain
Report Winner_Winner_Chicken_Diner October 28, 2014 11:46 AM GMT

Oct 20, 2014 -- 3:24AM, sean rua wrote:


Yes, Britain was the first to industrialise and the last to modernise. Almost all the industrial nations, who seemed to overtake, did so by having a miserable, beholden, working class ( some because they were after losing a major war, which is totally natural under capitalism.) and others using immigrants.Boom, Bust, War.Round and round the cycle goes.Petty party politics has little effect on this integral factor of capitalism.Nowhere is the stupidity of it all better illustrated than in the City of London. Here total di cks make huge fortunes playing with other people's money.For some reason  - probably the result of indoctrination and social brainwashing - the vast majority of the population, whom they impoverish, seem to think that these city slickers are the bees-knees, and that we should all admire the to ssers because they are so clever.Any of us who take part in gambling know full well that the future is uncertain. These cnts have no better crystal ball than do we, BUT, they do have much better access to inside information which comes, as ever, from the ruling clique(s). These rulers vie with each other for the very best returns. The pawns in the silly game are, of course, the working classes, who have to pick up the crumbs from the cake that they baked.Same ol', same old.Yes, the puritans are forever on about the virtues of hard work, but, when we scrutinise what actually goes down in their chosen system, we clearly see that the further a man gets away from basic, primary, production, the better he is "rewarded by the socio-economic" system.That is one important reason why our half-educated childers choose to study wishy-washy, bullshi t, subjects in order to get a cushy do-nothing job with a nice pension.Obviously, capitalism, which is not a charity, but a hard-headed businees, cannot afford too much of this dead-wood, so it looks elsewhere, and, yes, there's always some fkr worse off or more gullible who will do the actual, essential work for a pittance.Then, the whole cycle starts again.When too many folk have copped on, we get what they call a "recession". NIne time out of ten this leads onto War.After that, we return to flat-out boom conditions. Round and round spins the cycle. Wan kers at the top will call it the Wheel of Fortune. Why wouldn't they?Check it out agin your history books. I've seen it first hand. This is the way the cookie crumbles, whether we like it or not.And 'tis every bit as bad in Ireland, where 'tis rife and well-rewarded.


An excellent post Sean. Capitalism is a dictarship which is crumbling. They move from country to country stealing everything as countries crumble and are put into debt for generations. They are the problem, everything else is just noise for us to argue over. People need to finally stop voting in the puppet shows, as if they have the power yo make the decisions. Only then can a real democracy form, one like the ancient Greeks who wanted a better society for all and weren't consumed by greed.
The general population in ancient Greece were randomly selected to take part in governing issues and got paid their days wage. No more electing these rich who only care to keep the people poor and the status quo. They made decisions but if they didn't work they scraped them. So random selection everyone across society has their say.  How we we runrun society in the west fundamentality has to change and hopefully this happens before a WW breaks out.
The revolution that will come within my lifetime won't be the ones of old but it will be a favourable percentage of the population saying enough.

I had a 12 hour drive home yesterday just south of Fort mc Murray. Seeing what goes on here is the essence of how the capitalist society works. The greed, the destruction of land and water at the expense of the natives and the divide between rich and poor ever growing, its like a wall chart for captilism speeded up. Its cemented my views

Report wildmanfromborneo October 29, 2014 7:32 AM GMT
It seems to me that the last two,posters should support UKIP.
Ye are both on the side of the working class,its the working class bear the brunt of immigration.

Immigration suits the big bosses
Immigration suits the bourgeoise Labour supporters
Immigration suits the multiculturists..
Immigration suits the biggest crooks of them all,the legal profession.
Report mightymoyes October 29, 2014 8:21 AM GMT
immigrants are working class
Report Ozymandius October 29, 2014 9:05 AM GMT
You must be really be struggling to make your point if you repeatedly need to tar all immigrants with the Roma gypsy brush or indeed the assylum seeker brush.  These groupings are statistically small or even irrelevant overall and not representative of the immigrant community.  Its about as balanced as John Bull painting all Irish immigrants as IRA terroists.  It is disingenuous in the extreme
Report wildmanfromborneo October 29, 2014 9:16 AM GMT
Do you not think there is a problem.

Have you seen the figures.

Its a given that the Roma have been discriminated against for years.
They now have a legal right to all move anywhere they want to in Europe,the preferred place seems to be Yorkshire,to me its unsustainable and grossly unfair on the local population.

Thirty Roma are causing ructions in Waterford and being marched against yet its a hundred thousand Roma and growing in Yorkshire.
Report sean rua October 29, 2014 11:06 AM GMT
FFS!

Reply terminated before birth!

I'll try again later.

Freedom od speech, be fkd!
Have the neos taken over already?ConfusedCry
Report wildmanfromborneo October 29, 2014 11:11 AM GMT
Keep trying,its more than likely an error not the censors.
Report Winner_Winner_Chicken_Diner October 29, 2014 12:03 PM GMT
No wild man, I firmly believe its all a puppet show for us to squabble over. I support no one. They are all one of the same putting on a play, real decisions are made from big business and bankers. Decisions are made on what is profitable. Everything is manipulated. The recent shootings in Canada have all the markings of a false flag by the **** Harper, convinvently on the same day he was trying to pass a bill on public surveillance.

The world is a messed up place by the elite manipulating everything so they can fcuk us over. They have fleeced Ireland, Greece lots of europe still on the verge and right across the middle east. They want to re enter Iraq and steal more.

This is the real problem, not some poor immigrant sideshow. You see intelligent, use your time more wisely than getting involved in the petty squabbles they use to keep us where we are.
Report Winner_Winner_Chicken_Diner October 29, 2014 12:04 PM GMT
*seem
Report sean rua October 29, 2014 6:25 PM GMT
Winner from Fort McMurray,

Thanks for your kind words, but maybe we should not get carried away with the Ancient Greeks. Sadly, it seems most of their rulers and academics had slaves who did take part in said democracy.

Also, they believed in and practised buggery and sex with animals. 'Twas said to be the manly thing to do.
However, their classical principles are still the basis for the English public school system, it is said.  The purpose is to produce rulers and leaders.
Report sean rua October 29, 2014 6:25 PM GMT
did NOT take part in said "democracy".
Report sean rua October 29, 2014 6:37 PM GMT
Wilde,

     only deluded and thoughtless working class folk would entertain supporting a conservative an unionist pressure group based on nothing but hatred of thei chosen scapegoat - a soft target that their rulers have led them to believe is responsible for the bad things in capitalism.

Yes, capitalism is a GLOBAL system and its rulers are global players. Immigration - or the easy movement of labour - is ESSENTIAL  to the system.
They do not care about the consequences provided their profits are maintained/increased and, provided that their puppet governments get enough tax to pay for the inevitable wars and to quell public disorder.

Talking of which, are we to take it that mob rule against women and children  - driven from their homes by haters - is to be a standard practice for UKp supporters?

I take it your usual insistence on paying lip-service to some old English laws is to be by-passed in the case of Waterford?
Do you support what went on, and do you agree with the protesters that an Garda Siochana were/are not dealing properly with crime?

Indeed, are ye yourself a member of the force and have ye any withheld evidence that ye have have not put before your superior officer re crime by Roma in Waterford?
Report sean rua October 29, 2014 6:44 PM GMT
Also, are we take it that ye believe in a hierarchy of crime, with Roma being classed as the worst and ourselves, the Pavees, being classed as the second worst?

In the recent flare up in Gaza, Palestine, ye took a decidely pro-jewish stance, so, presumably ye do not have the jews so high on your hate list?
I suppose with several influential stables in Tipp being under jewish rule, ye moreorless have to tone down things a tad?

Luckily, the brief success of social-media-inspired hate parties like UKp will not last long: they have no worthwhile policies and no history of running things, but , I guess our expectation that they will allow as much thuggery as the can to take place while they're in the limelight will come to pass.

Can ye confirm any of this as party policy, please?
Report Winner_Winner_Chicken_Diner October 29, 2014 7:09 PM GMT
Lol well I didnt no that and while they had slaves it doesn't mean you should overlook the Athenian democracy model. It would be much better than the banking and big business dictatorship we have in place today which uses the word "democracy"
Report wildmanfromborneo October 29, 2014 7:31 PM GMT
I don't hate anyone.

On what basis do you call UKIP a hate party.

You criticise UKIP as having no history of running things,that's a defeatist attitude leaving power in the hands of the same people that wrecked Britain.

One thing I do hate is globalisation,I hate this Coca Cola drinking,McDonalds chomping Disney World culture so beloved of your pals.

The only thuggery I've seen has come from the UAF and the usual intolerant liberals who brook no opposition.
Its done by first name calling and then claiming that the holders of these perfectly legitimate opinions have some sort of disease.
This is skilfully followed up by a propaganda campaign to make people fearful of supporting a party like UKIP,its generally focused on the women in that party.
Subtle threats are made that your children will be taken away from you.

This actually happened in of all places Rotherham,yes that fine place who rather than offend some alien community allowed in excess of 1400 children be abused.
Rotherham is one of my outside bets for a UKIP MP in the next general election.
Report pa lapsy November 21, 2014 8:55 AM GMT
White van man says yes as expected.With the popularity of Sinn Fein no harm to see to see the protest of people sick of politicians lies and broken promises instead of doing the job they were elected to in these isles.
Report mrtopnotch November 21, 2014 10:35 AM GMT
I am pro Europe and think the UK is better in than out , but the Euro politicians should try to make a difference and engage with their European colleagues instead of continuously whinging which the English are wrongly or rightly perceived ....I think most of these UK euro politicians see it as a gravy train and are lazy so and soes

As an Immigrant I think I make a great contribution to the UK
Report wildmanfromborneo November 21, 2014 10:47 AM GMT
You may well do but the main contribution this present wave make is to the prison population.

You can't have a welfare state and open door immigration.
Report workrider November 21, 2014 11:01 AM GMT
those from poorer european countries ,and we know which ones ,are in a win win situation ,as are their african friends , when they arrive they get housing , food , and in lots of cases cash from the state ,to help them get on their feet ..their children are looked after and have access to health welfare straight away ...have you seen many africans using public transport , hardly , if you have five or more children you are entitled to a space wagon type car , hard to believe ,next time you're out and about ,i.e.  in a shopping centre ,take a note of this , you'll be amazed ...who pays the tax and insurance on these cars , right again , the irish taxpayer , i could go on ....
Report pa lapsy November 21, 2014 11:19 AM GMT
With an open door policy between UK and Ireland,not really sure are you an immigrant as such MrT,over a 100,000 have gone visa versa and made Ireland their home,probably would have been a lot more if the Celtic tiger continued.
Galling thing with me is that so many of the Irish politicians that brought ruin on the country still kept their cushy numbers in the Dail et al.
Whether he lives up to it or not Reckless,s speech in which he said "You remain my boss,don't let me forget it" is very true,hopefully he does.
It was good result as the average person feels politics is not being done for their interests (only the monied) despite them wanting their vote. Hardly will see an age of honesty and transparency but it may shake it up.
Report Ozymandius November 21, 2014 11:38 AM GMT
You may well do but the main contribution this present wave make is to the prison population.

Incorect and unhelpful to the debate at hand.  Try sticking to facts (for once) rater than presenting the fruits of your pejudiced imagination as fact.

if you have five or more children you are entitled to a space wagon type car

Anyone know if this is true?  Seems astonishing on the face of it.
Report Ozymandius November 21, 2014 11:51 AM GMT
Pa, am also interested in your definition of 'immigrant' as it appears you don't consider Irish people travelling to the UK or vice versa as Immigrants.  Handy, I suppose because you wouldn't want to have to bracket yourself as an 'immigrant'.  What is your definition of an immigrant out of interest?
Report pa lapsy November 21, 2014 11:58 AM GMT
Its only a couple of hundred miles away,you don't even have to show a passport when you enter the Uk from Ireland. If you want to call me an immigrant fair enough,no big deal,i really don't care, don't you live in the Uk yourself?
Report Ozymandius November 21, 2014 12:07 PM GMT
No, I don't.

Though I was a delighted to be an immigrant there once and contributed massively to the Exchequer.  As an Irish person, it was fabulous to have world class Universities and lucrative career opportunities on our doorstep.
Report pa lapsy November 21, 2014 12:14 PM GMT
Good for you, nice that we are both sitting down and reading the betfair forum together and trying to pick a winner.
Report Ozymandius November 21, 2014 4:58 PM GMT
It's fabulous, Pa, though thankfully I wasn't searching for winners this afternoon, would surely have been suckered into that double catch me put up.

A wonderful w/e of sport; F1 nail biting decider, Ireland favourites against a SH team, Faugheen reappearing, decent racing, Arsenal Man U, the return of the Premiership, IACGMOOH, golf with Irish contending, Davis Cup final, other rugby internationals.'Er Indoors has been instructed to stock the Pantry and disappear shopping.
Report Ozymandius November 21, 2014 5:06 PM GMT
great boxing too.

Big fan of Anthony Joshua.  Sky is the limit.  Great card, Groves, DeGale, Cleverley etc.
Report frank60 November 21, 2014 9:56 PM GMT
The heavyweight scene has been the poorest for many years now, Joshua will never have a better chance ;I wish him well.
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