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BJG
31 Dec 13 17:07
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Date Joined: 20 Aug 07
| Topic/replies: 29,810 | Blogger: BJG's blog
Obv had a contract signed till the end of the year hence why they could nt sack him wen they wanted to earlier on in the year!
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Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 6:20 PM GMT
And to be clear, here was your initial assertion;

Flying Aer Lingus / Malaysian shortly to Bali ex Dublin  , much cheaper ( and better connectivity )

How much do I win?
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 6:26 PM GMT
P.S. stop waffling on about exchange rates and the price of wine in Bali.
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 6:30 PM GMT
Kelly, happily I have discovered the medical term for your condition;

fingerrhea

1. Diarrhea of the fingers - the written equivalent to verbal diarrhea

2. A condition that develops when typing a quick thought turns into a spewing of disorganized spontaneous words that quickly deteriorates into written chaos, not necessarily associated with watery fecal evacuations.
Report Send.in.the.clowns January 2, 2014 6:33 PM GMT
Is this the ****1ng travel forum?
Report Kelly January 2, 2014 7:12 PM GMT
Ozy , my post concerned flying from Dublin as against flying from Belfast .  The better connectivity sub reference related to Dublin offering more options / carriers / timings than from Belfast .  But you are skewing it , saying you could get a better deal from Dublin , which was possibly not available when I booked . I was satisfied with my booking  , it was nearly half the cost of flying out of Belfast on a similar route / timeframe .  And my criteria was related to flying from Dublin as against Belfast , an option which becomes increasingly attractive to a lot of people given airport charges etc .  And an option which will ultimately benefit the southern economy .

As usual Ozy you are inventing words to put into peoples mouths to suit an argument .

Out of interest what sort of price would your "solution " involve , standard travel , standard luggage ? For future reference .

Sorry lads , but Ozy claimed I posted non factual , he needs to know he cant get away with that  , and he picked a very minor aside to TRY to illustrate he was right . My flights to Bali are neither here nor there , Ozy is just trying to prove he is clever .
Report jimeen January 2, 2014 7:14 PM GMT
David Russell had a good innings at the helm and maybe it was a question of the job just running its course. Of course he will struggle to reach the heights he has in the past but he is a good enough rider to do better than most. He has improved no end during his spell with the O Leary's although this year he didn't seem to be at his peak although it does look like he had been on death row with quite a while so maybe that's why his riding suffered. A level below the top 3 but as good as anybody else is where I would place him in the jockeys ranks. He's as good a rider as Cooper is at the minute but its impossible to say he's better than him and with the age gap and the scope for improvement,then its easy to see why they would want a change. Cooper is a quite wonderful rider but his upper body strength is lacking compared to the real top riders,although should he get stronger then he would really be the complete package. All in all Russell can be proud of his achievements and the great strides he has made and also in the improvement he has made as a rider. Finally quite incorrectly he was labelled as an untrustworthy character but in most peoples eyes that know the game,that has been well and truly laid to rest. His will to win is I would say as great as anybody riding,and of course he has given the odd easy to one on the instructions of connections. In reality they all do this,its just the bigger riders are asked to do it less often. Even today a rider like Noel Fehilly had to ride to instructions in a race at Huntingdon,McCoy does it every day of the week,Ruby does it and so would Barry Geraghty in the right circumstances. Its part and parcel of the game.
So I say best of luck to him in a new chapter in his career,although admittedly its going to be tough. You just never know whats around the corner though in this game,and even though people will say there are no jobs in this country,the fact of the matter is there are 3 retained riders in this country alone,two of which who wouldn't ride a rocking horse and the other is a pale shadow of what he used be.
Report neill d January 2, 2014 7:26 PM GMT
He could have a hell of a career in the racing media plus he has his bloodtock interests. Davy is a very good talker and seems very popular among the Irish sporting community.
Report Kelly January 2, 2014 7:28 PM GMT
Good post jimeen .  Best of luck to him , never did me any harm , and some good . You have to take people as you find them , even if its only from the sidelines .
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 7:29 PM GMT
Connectivity out of Belfast to Bali even better than Dublin;

For example; E10030 will save you a further 5 minutes via SIN than MUY routing described above.

How much do I win?
Report tony57 January 2, 2014 7:33 PM GMT
davy Russell will have no problem getting rides in most of the big races in Ireland..he may get a problem now for the festival..but I,d say he,ll get 2 rides a day there?..but byrnes, tyner,are just 2 yards he,ll ride most off..never mind some of the small yards..he has a good connection to colm murphy,.. what about him replacing brian @dessies
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 7:37 PM GMT
I am not pricing your routing for you, Kelly, I never contradicted your opinion on cost.

Of course SQ is more expensive, its the best.  The only way to travel imo and well worth the premium.

For your routing in terms of service experience I would rank them SQ, CX, MY, TG.  EK takes too long.  QR is an interesting option as if flies direct DOHA to DPS.
Report Kelly January 2, 2014 7:48 PM GMT
Ozy , I cant be bothered to try and save 5 minutes on a 3 stop long haul flight half way around the world .  Particularly if its definitely going to cost me a grand more than I am paying  ( my wife is travelling too ) . If moving the goal posts to suit your argument , diligent research ( assumed ) , and substantial extra cost constitutes a saving of 5 minutes , you have little to do .

Still interested in hearing costs for your planned routes  , radio silence on that up to now .
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 7:52 PM GMT
Still interested in hearing costs for your planned routes  , radio silence on that up to now .

I am not pricing your routing for you, Kelly, I never contradicted your opinion on cost.

Are you going senile?
Report neill d January 2, 2014 7:54 PM GMT
Funny thing Tony, I'm not so sure of that. Our field sizes for the big races are pathetic until the Festivals and the power is concentrated in the hands of very few.

He will always knock out 40 odd winners a year but bar Byrnes I'm not sure where he'll next meet a quality horse. I'm not sure the commitment to Hughes is worth it given the Firepower at hand there and the fact he would have to commute up there.

He would also be ruling himself out of the big UK Saturdays where if his agent should be able to get hinm on live ones for the smaller stables in some decent handicaps.

Having had the job he has had for seven years, whoever is representing him should be banging the drum at all the English trainers with a good young horse that Russell is the best man to put on it. There is no one, not even Walsh with more experience of dealing with young horses on the track. He should be able to tell them exactly what they have.

as mentioned, the english trainers so often seem to mess the campaigning of their novices, here is fella who could ameliorate that and tell them what to do.
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 7:57 PM GMT
No moving of goalposts, I demonstrated to you that using SQ saves you an hour ex DUB, and an Hour and five minutes EX belfast.  That's my idea of better connectivity  Or if you define connectivity as more frequent flights then there are nocomparisons between using SQ and MY, irrespective of your origin being Belfast or Dublin.  HTH

How much have I won?
Report neill d January 2, 2014 7:59 PM GMT
I'm talking about horses like Coneygree, Time for Rupert yokes like them from smaller yards that were messed up a bit. Anyone with experience on the back of a decent could have told them they were overfacing TFR with all the talk of Gold Cups and throwing him into open company.
Report tony57 January 2, 2014 8:16 PM GMT
im not sure he,d get a look in over here neill..I chat with a young jock who rides out for a small yard and a medium size yard..hes lucky to get 2-3 rides a week/..but hes a big name so maybe your right..but without the backing of a yard I think he.d struggle to get outside rides
Report Kelly January 2, 2014 8:19 PM GMT
Ozy , you posted that my post contained glaring factual inaccuracy .  The post had several paragraphs , including a throwaway line that it was cheaper to fly out of Dublin than Belfast . Connectivity was a sub reference in that . You have spent a huge amount of time trying to prove that my post contained glaring factual inaccuracy  , ultimately basing your assertion on the fact that you could somehow save me 5 minutes on a 20 hour  plus  journey using an acknowledged expensive carrier .

You refuse  to back up your revised itinerary with costs , which must be an easy exercise given the amount of research you must have done .  You have already spent more time in sourcing my route than I did , and are scared to put a cost on it . Forum members can figure out who is acting the eejit .

Ref senility , posts "crossed "  , and I am not a "stalker"  --particularly if I am involved in betting which is what this site is about --  , dont know how to , or how to block posters .

Sorry again lads , this "debate" about factual inaccuracies sprang from Ryanair connectivity , my travel arrangements hardly affect Davy Russell or even Michael O'Leary . Or anyone but myself and my wife and those meeting us at the other end .
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 8:23 PM GMT
I ave spent almost no time, the flight connections are all saved on my phone.  Modern technology eh!

What part of, 'I have never contradicted you on the cost front' don't you understand?
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 8:28 PM GMT
And another thing, you present a family member's defection from flying Ryanair to flying Enmirates as some sort of slur on Ryanair?

Who wouldn't move to a tax free, accommodation subsidised, perk laden carrier?  Not to mention the obvious benefits of flying long haul as opposed to short haul high intensity shuttles. The vast majority of geographically flexible low cost pilots would kill for the chance to 'upgrade' .
Report punchestown January 2, 2014 9:10 PM GMT
I think the Ryanair discussion deserves a separate thread or else the rest of us should post the Russell stuff in the Gigginstown thread,the thread here is a mess.
Report one last chance January 2, 2014 9:25 PM GMT
I'd agree with that,
Report Byerley_Racing January 2, 2014 9:54 PM GMT
It was probably a 1.01 shot that jimeen would be in with the party political broadcast telling us all how great, straight and trustworthy DNR is.
Report Kelly January 2, 2014 9:56 PM GMT
Agreed , punchestown .  But there is an issue at stake , so bear with me .

Ozy , I posted "and the family connection pilot I mentioned was delighted to switch airlines even though it meant relocating himself ,wife, and family to Dubai" . Read your 20.28 post . YOUR post .

Any slur on Ryanair in that context is purely within your head Ozy . "The vast majority of geographically flexible low cost pilots would kill for the chance to 'upgrade' " . Any perceived slur would be equally applicable to any low cost airline by your assertion .  Your handle on the pilot situation . Thankfully none of our family connection embrace killing mode .

Not as easy as it sounds to relocate if you are a family man , there are other considerations other than money , and the only family you have is your wife and children . Ex pat life aint all it might seem , completely different life styles , expectations . Not ideal for a lot of people trying to bring up a "normal "family .

Nobody "defects " from Ryanair as I understand it  , they terminate a mutual contract , just like Davy Russell and Gigginstown . Which is fine  , to try and return to original thread .
Report workrider January 2, 2014 10:04 PM GMT
I cant see Davy moving over to the UK , the last time he was there he got homesick , he had a great job but was unable to really dig in when they needed him ..So a no go for me ,I also think trainers with no retained jockey here will be more than willing to put him up...A tough time ahead for him no doubt , and if we are honest , some will always question were davy's Real loyalties lie .....
Report Ozymandius January 2, 2014 10:04 PM GMT
Not as easy as it sounds to relocate if you are a family man

Hence my use of the term geographically flexible.

Defect; To abandon a position or association, often to join an opposing group:
Report punchestown January 2, 2014 10:14 PM GMT
I agree about Davy staying here workrider,I wouldn't say training is a million miles from his thoughts at this stage.
Report Kelly January 2, 2014 10:18 PM GMT
How easy is it these days to set up as a trainer , basically from scratch ?  Johnny Murtagh has established himslf very well in a short space of time , but I think the wheels were moving there before they started up . Davy Russell slightly different character I suspect .
Report Distant View January 2, 2014 10:20 PM GMT
.he has a good connection to colm murphy,.. what about him replacing brian @dessies

Having a good connection with Colm Murphy is hardly much use these days. Aside from the fact that he hardly ever trains a winner, he has plenty of horses for Connell, McManus and Gigginstown so there is very little for an outside jockey or a stable jockey to benefit from.
Report Santry January 3, 2014 7:26 AM GMT
I would put Russell roughly on a par with David Casey age/ability wise and I think he should be able to operate in the same manner as he does i.e. work really hard for everything he gets. My doubts would be that Russell has not got the personality to work that hard. Another factor is it appears that the ties may not be severed completely with Gigginstown as they have not ruled out using him in the future.
One way or the other it will be a big comedown for Russell with tougher times ahead.
While a change of rider will not mean the Gigginstown operation takes off overnight as clearly the horses are paramount I think it was necessary and better times are ahead.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 3, 2014 9:08 AM GMT
I presume Davy Russell will still ride for Charles Byrnes,will be able to ride Solwhit all the time.

Plenty of local Cork trainers might use him
Terence OBrien
Robert Tyner
Adrian Maguire
John Murphy
Jimmy Mangan


Its not the end of the world for him,I wish him all the best.
Report johnslad January 3, 2014 10:08 AM GMT
B.COOPER IS NO1 TO GET THIS 'GIG' NO PUN,IF THEY HAD EMPLOYED HIM WHEN DNR WAS INJURED AT FESTIVAL THEY MAY HAVE HAD WON THIER 2ND GOLD CUP.
THIS IS AN OPPERTUNITY COOPER WILL BE UNABLE TO REFUSE,BUT WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT IF HE TOLD M.O'L STICK IT UP YOUR WHOLELaugh
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 10:19 AM GMT
ya Wildman......john murphy and jimmy mangan to the rescue for davy.....and Adrian Maguire.....ffs......I can only assume davy isn't going back pointing......because otherwise these trainers wont be of much benefit......more nonsense from the wildklan.....and I can only assume the lapdog wonky is writing more Shiite.....and how many times did Terence o brien use him.....hardly ever.....what a load of old bollox.....
Report wildmanfromborneo January 3, 2014 10:31 AM GMT
" might use him "

My only point is there are other opportunities for Russell,he doesn't have to retire.

I only listed those trainers because they all train n Cork and am not advocating the sacking of young Enright.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 3, 2014 10:33 AM GMT
I see the Racing Post put up Silver Concorde as a bet for the Cheltenham bumper,would you agree Paulie.
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 10:50 AM GMT
not being smart Wildman.....but the bumper at Cheltenham is as unappealing a betting event as the grand national in my book.....a bookies benefit if ever there was one.....about 20 unexposed horses all trying for their lives.....with 3 places.....after saying that it won well at leopardstown in a race where the dangers in the race seemed to run too free......the second horse is quite smart and should win plenty races.....it got a good ride from dopey Derek on the day......for a change not too far out of his ground.....and came to challenge on the outside which was more than likely better ground......
with welds record and the fact that it has already been beaten twice.....id say its a no for that race.....but as I said anything could win that.....but when weld couldn't get rite of passage to win it....then its unlikely this guy will win.....
Report wildmanfromborneo January 3, 2014 10:53 AM GMT
Damn,I have to agree with that post in its entirety.

Do you still think Silver Concorde didnt duck Un Atout in that Naas bumper.
Report neill d January 3, 2014 10:58 AM GMT
One horse I have always been surprised has never seen flights is Cul Baire who battered Silver Concorde in a bumper at Galway. He might have won the staying race at Royal Ascot had he settled and has picked up a nice few flat prices. Bolger keeps mentioning he is for sale. very surprised nobody has taken a punt as he'd be as good a dual-purpose prospect as there is around as far as I could see.

An AOB horse Lebron beat him in a wexford maiden on bad ground, I don't know what ever happened to him. Might surface some day in JP's coulours maybe. Bar the hurdlers, the jumps season hasn't really caught my attention and I'm nearly looking forward to the return of the Flat.

Silver Concorde travelled around like a dream in ground he wouldn't have loved and is definitely one you could see in the first 7 or 8 in the Champion Bumper but you wouldn't know with that race. It is nearly as much about how they react to the experience as talent at that stage.

Oh well, better start looking busy and do a bit of workLaugh, I could have this thing open all day....nearly everyone still on holidays.
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 11:03 AM GMT
I don't know whether they avoided un atout intentionally or not....who cares....horses avoid each other all the time.....all I know is it wasn't a bad decision if they did.....because un atout would have beat it by a furlong.....
Report Mr Mischief January 3, 2014 11:07 AM GMT
That Lebron, a Galileo, looked tailor made for hurdling whatever happened to him
Report neill d January 3, 2014 11:09 AM GMT
Yeah MM, it can be very hard to trace their horses, he is either dead, injured or been sold off to somewhere hot and sandy. Looked to be a high-class handicapper at the least and Cul Baire hasn't let the form down.
Report silvergreaser January 3, 2014 11:13 AM GMT
Whatever you think of Davy Russells ability as a jockey but please spare us the canonising, this is a jockey who first cut his chops with the shady Ferdy Murphy and then came home to ride for none other than the notorious Charles Byrnes.

FWIW imo the appointment of Cooper is not going to make one iota of a difference how the Gigginstown horses perform, because if they're good enough they'll win (bar a fall of course) if they're not they'll lose simple as.
Report pa lapsy January 3, 2014 11:19 AM GMT
Not a big fan of the bumper either,still a horse Tony57 put up before she ran impressed me again yesterday(Bitofapuzzle)at Huntingdon,she is a big jowlter of a yoke who dwarfed her rivals in a listed mares bumper and grinded out a comfortable win. Hardly will go for the bumper but still think she has some future and anything now is a bonus.One to watch and given her size looks a chaser all over.
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 11:42 AM GMT
now pa.....please go back into bed.....tony 57 put her up.....in all fairness now......if bitofapuzzle wins the Cheltenham bumper then we can all give it up......
Report neill d January 3, 2014 11:46 AM GMT
Mares final at Newbury 2015 maybe, not mch on an Ante-post race!! rubbish programme for the mares over there compared to here. She looked a nice prospect.
Report pa lapsy January 3, 2014 11:50 AM GMT
Ah feck Paulie bit harsh,ye were talking about bumper horses,,never said she is going for the champion bumper, Tony did mention her a while back,personally think she could be very special,for a young horse she looks bigger than Denman.It is not like i was talking about aeroplanes in fairness.
Report Arklearkle January 3, 2014 11:55 AM GMT
Was never a big fan of Davys but it is unlikely they will get anyone better and it wont bring about a change of fortunes for them and things could even get worse. Johnslad you think BC might have won the Gold Cup on SDC. Have a look at the finish of the race again. If the race had been another 100 yards SDC would have required oxygen to get over the line. I had him backed then but WM would need to perform a miracle for SDC to ever win a GC. Horses who win competitive GCs stay and stay and stay .... SDC to me does not look like one of those. KS with his class won a couple of uncompetitive GCs beating a handicapper who was ridden for a place in one and a horse just off his sick bed in another.
Report johnslad January 3, 2014 12:10 PM GMT
Johnslad you think BC might have won the Gold Cup on SDC. Have a look at the finish of the race again.INDEED,HAVE A LOOK AT THE FINISH, BRYAN COOPER WOULDN'T HAVE CUT HIS OWN THROAT (not from another thread)TAKING ON LONG RUN FROM SO FAR OUT,TURNED IT INTO AN ALMIGHTY STAYER'S RACE BOBS WORTH WAS GOING NOWHERE ONLY SHEER STAMINA WHEN THE OTHER TWO WILTED GOT HIM HOME.AP COULD HAVE KEPT SDC ON THE BRIDLE BY TAKING A LEAD BUT THAT'S ONLY MY OPPINIONHappy
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 12:23 PM GMT
hindsight is a great thing.....I think most people including myself thought sir des champs had limitless stamina.....hed have won the gold cup if he had.....and I wouldn't blame McCoy one iota for the ride he gave it.....in fact all the way through the race I thought he would win.......could not believe the tame finish.....but that's the way it goes.....id imagine Russell would have ridden it in a similar fashion.....
not that I think he will win this year.....but he will be ridden a lot less forward in March......
Report johnslad January 3, 2014 12:37 PM GMT
..but he will be ridden a lot less forward in March.....THAT CONTRADICTS EVERYTHING ELSE YOU SAY FFSCrazy
Report neill d January 3, 2014 12:54 PM GMT
They know now that he does not have limitless stamina hence he mightn't be ridden as forward. I think the ground and a lack of jumping fluency were what did for him. He traded long odds-on in the run.
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 12:57 PM GMT
johnslad.....its hardly my fault you cannot interpret basic English properly......and as I always say.....and its the best guide of all......the smiley face = imbecile......
Report The Gotchee January 3, 2014 1:15 PM GMT
Gigginstown are only looking for a scapegoat for their own incompetence. Although, I am not a big fan of D. Russell, he hasn't made too many mistakes. Show me a jockey who doesn't make mistakes? I think Gigginstown are very disappointed with the performance of their horses and they are looking for someone to blame. Needless to say,with their arrogance, they can't see what they are doing wrong themselves. They are going down the same route as the Wildensteins. Russell's sacking is only the start of it, trainers will be culled next. I don't believe Cooper is ready for the job at this point in time. Good jockey that he is I would still retain him as a number 2.
Paul Townend looks the obvious choice at the moment. If they had any kop on at all they would give Ruby Walsh an offer he couldn't refuse. Although, I think the job of retained rider could turn into a poison chalice.
Report tony57 January 3, 2014 1:18 PM GMT
gotchee
  ruby would never leave mullins..now townend?..more like it..but would he leave willys knowing the top job is his when ruby finishes maybe next year?
Report Bigwillystyle January 3, 2014 1:28 PM GMT
SDC lost the gold cup for two reasons. 1 The ground went against him on the day. and 2 McCoy rode it.  Everybody know s there was a very public arguement about who was going to be replacement and lets just say it wasnt WPM's choice.  SDC jumped poorly for McCoy.  Not a fan of his and a quieter style like Cooper or Townend would in my opinion have suited the horse a lot better than the muck ride he was given.
Report Arklearkle January 3, 2014 1:37 PM GMT
Gotchee an offer Ruby could not refuse you must be joking - he would not leave WPM even if they offered him the airline. He is a racing man who wants to ride winners and winners of the very big races at that (and of course make money). Right now there is only one place he will do that and it aint riding the Giggi ponies. Nothing lasts for ever and change is good but the jockey aint Giggis problem.
Report Arklearkle January 3, 2014 1:41 PM GMT
I would be also very surprised if PT left Willie for them.
Report silvergreaser January 3, 2014 2:01 PM GMT
Bigwill do you not think Bobsworth would've preferred good ground too in the Gold Cup?.
Report Bigwillystyle January 3, 2014 2:06 PM GMT
N i dont.  Thnk he wants it softer than good.  Glad to see you dont disagree with my McCoy comments.
Report johnslad January 3, 2014 2:23 PM GMT
johnslad.....its hardly my fault you cannot interpret basic English properly......and as I always say.....and its the best guide of all......the smiley face = imbecile...... .I think most people including myself thought sir des champs had limitless stamina..YOU MAY HAVE THOUGHT,WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO INCLUDE MOST PEOPLE,WHEN BEFORE WAS HE RIDDEN IN SUCH A WAY IMBECILEAngry
Report silvergreaser January 3, 2014 2:30 PM GMT
I don't know how you come that conclusion Bigwill most of Bobsworths best form has been on good or good/soft.

SDS has loads of form on heavy or soft ground by a sire who only ever won on soft or heavy.
Report keen leader January 3, 2014 2:31 PM GMT
re: gigginstown and davy, rather than the air travel discussion!

it was on the cards for some time and davy knew it, the timing was the surprise, although after an embarrassing leopardstown, that was the final straw. one unusual aspect in the lead up was the interview davy gave to paul kimmage, in hindsight it had an element of "give me more time" to it.

anyway, davy will survive and he is always at his most dangerous with a point to prove. the problem for him and his agent is illustrated by the naas card on sunday, where he has one ride, apart from that he had no opening for ride apart maybe from a few no hopers. the monopoly element of ownership, does make it tough for freelancers.

gigginstown may be best served for the remainder of the season, using stable jockeys or the best available, as that allows ruby ride their mullins horses like mozoltov on sunday.

for davy, when one door shuts another may open, and my bold prediction is that in the future, perhaps this time next year, he could be the retained rider to the Potts firm.
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 2:32 PM GMT
johnslad......im not sure we went to the same level in our education.....think myself you are more in the wonky mould......now i wont be engaging you again.....not at least until you start making some sense.....
Report johnslad January 3, 2014 2:36 PM GMT
THANK ****Crazy
Report Bigwillystyle January 3, 2014 2:39 PM GMT
Dont think De Bromhead would want that to happen Keen Leader.  Closed shop down there and wouldnt want him coming in shouting it to the Cork Lads.  Agree Lynch not riding the best though
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 2:43 PM GMT
the only reason its a closed shop willy.....is nobody can understand what Lynch is telling them.....
Report Bigwillystyle January 3, 2014 2:49 PM GMT
Paulie that deserves one of Wonky's finest smilies
Report keen leader January 3, 2014 2:53 PM GMT
I will disagree there big willie, davy rode plenty for them during the summer when lynch was out and the youghal-tramore morning run would be very handy....I think it is a cert to happen in the future.
Report neill d January 3, 2014 2:53 PM GMT
Silver, I'd say it is due to the way he travels in his races, the prolonged flat-spots he hits in his races could leave him out of his ground in a genuinely top-class grade 1 on quick ground. What he did at leopardstown was nothing we haven't seen before, they raced hard from about 3 out, he came under pressure turning in and then powered home, he always finishes well.

Would he be able to hang on in there against a top-class animal on the quicker surface is the question. I'd love to see Cue Card in a good Ground Gold Cup rideen properly, eg. the way Ruby rode Kauto Star in 07'. I've a feeling that if Cue Card was with Nicholls or Henderson and ridden by one of the 2 lads there'd be no doubts about his stamina. How the hell he expected to get home in the King George after going off like that is anyone's guess. His rivals weren't race fit at Haydock so he got away with. he is a better racehorse than Bobs Worth, but Bobs Worth is in better hands.
Report Arklearkle January 3, 2014 3:03 PM GMT
Neill I agree with some of what you say but over 3m 2 1/2f at Cheltenham I would back BW every time to beat him.
Report neill d January 3, 2014 3:15 PM GMT
I probably would now as well, I had an 'argument' with a few lads on the main forum over this and you're probably right.

My thing with Cue Card is that they have never properly taught him how to race so as to harness his full potential. He is so good that he was always going to win his fair share, but it is ridiculous that a horse with his tactical speed should have to try and make all in a 3mile Grade 1. Who rides the fastest horse in the race like that? But this is now what he is used to and it will be hard to change.

I'm really rehashing that argument from the main forum here, but Nicky henderson and McCoy could blast out in front with My Tent or yours and win most days, but they won't because they know they will never win a Champion Hurdle doing that and are teaching him how to race.

The fact that Cue Card needs to lead over 3 miles tells me they can't get the horse doing what they want, some might blame it on the fact that he is used to going a stronger pace over shorter, but I don't subscribe to that....I think you can either settle a horse and have it going the pace you want or you can't. A top trainer and jocky would have him a real professional racehorse by now rather than a class horse stuck at an intermediate trip. he'll piss the Champion Chase if Sprinter Sacre isn't right you'd think.

One thing I will say for the Tizzards is that they have campaigned him with a fantastic sense of adventure.
Report silvergreaser January 3, 2014 3:15 PM GMT
Neil have a look at Bobsworth in races where the ground was either good/soft or better the horse travels much more smoothly, his flat spots seem to occur on soft ground, the horse isnt the most fluent of jumpers anyway, but to say that only SDS would benefit from good ground at the festival sounds like people grasping at straws, maybe Bobsworth is just the better horse anyway and if turns good at Cheltenham he might win even easier who knows?.
Report neill d January 3, 2014 3:16 PM GMT
You could be right Silver
Report Tolmi January 3, 2014 3:26 PM GMT
While Bobs Worth may travel better on good ground the softer ground brings his limitless stamina into play which good ground does not.Regardless of Sir des Champs ground preferences anyone who closely watched from the last home in the Gold Cup last year would notice how Sir des Champs was absolutely legless finishing.I'd find it hard to believe he would win a Gold Cup on soft ground.
Report silvergreaser January 3, 2014 3:35 PM GMT
Neil, Back in Front and Bacchanal were Bobsworths USA sire Bob Backs 2 best jumps progeny after BW, BIF best performance was when he absolutely trounced Kicking King in the Supreme on genuine good ground and Bacchanal best ever run was when he won the Stayers Hurdle from Limestone Lad on ground described as good/firm.
Report silvergreaser January 3, 2014 3:38 PM GMT
Tolmi good ground might mean Bobsworth will be much closer to the pace meaning he might not have to dig into all his reserves like he does on soft if you get my drift?.
Report tony57 January 3, 2014 3:45 PM GMT
cooper just announced as jock to giggy
Report paulie wallnuts January 3, 2014 4:02 PM GMT
tolmi.....ya neednt be worried about sir des champs winning the gold cup this year anyway......
Report kavvie January 3, 2014 4:42 PM GMT
paulie if sdc got his ground he mite win it..
Report Arklearkle January 3, 2014 4:44 PM GMT
Is he out??
Report kavvie January 3, 2014 4:45 PM GMT
just heard hes out for the season
Report callitasucit January 3, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
As a backer of Bobs Worth for the GC, i would certainly prefer soft ground. Geraghty may spout on about him being a better horse on better ground, but the fact remains his two biggest wins and best chasing performances have come on soft.
Im not saying Geraghty is wrong, he is probably right, most horses will be better suited to a better terrain than mud flying, but the Gold Cup is not a time trial, its a horserace, and most if not all of BWs opponents will be much better suited by good ground or livelier.
SDS has not jumped aswell since landing the Jewson on decent ground.
Cue Card will need a Ryanair shuttle to bring him home from the bottom of the hill on soft(regardless of how he is ridden)
Flight Lieutenant likewise
Al Ferof, Dynaste & Rubi Ball wouldnt be in the line up.

So its clear to see that soft ground or worse will certainly increase BWs chances of recaliming his crown. BJG will probably come on after the race and say how the groud didnt suit. Maybe it wont have. But one thing is for sure, it will have suited him one hell of alot more than the vast majority of his main contemporaries.
Report Santry January 3, 2014 5:03 PM GMT
Its on the Racing Post site that Sir De Champs will not be running in the Gold Cup.
Report Mr Mischief January 3, 2014 5:18 PM GMT

Jan 3, 2014 -- 8:53AM, keen leader wrote:


I will disagree there big willie, davy rode plenty for them during the summer when lynch was out and the youghal-tramore morning run would be very handy....I think it is a cert to happen in the future.


With the great Sizing Europe past his best and not much coming through for them, certainly not anywhere near SE's level are you sure Davy would want the job?

Report tony57 January 3, 2014 5:36 PM GMT
im no expert on the potts string..but they have a few decent novices..and a couple still to run this year..sizing Australia is highly regarded @mullins place..sizing rio will be a good horse with another year on its back..who knows how good the stores are..with there firepower..its a job he,d be a fool to turn down imo
Report CheltenhamRoar January 3, 2014 6:03 PM GMT

Jan 3, 2014 -- 4:58AM, neill d wrote:


One horse I have always been surprised has never seen flights is Cul Baire who battered Silver Concorde in a bumper at Galway. He might have won the staying race at Royal Ascot had he settled and has picked up a nice few flat prices. Bolger keeps mentioning he is for sale. very surprised nobody has taken a punt as he'd be as good a dual-purpose prospect as there is around as far as I could see. An AOB horse Lebron beat him in a wexford maiden on bad ground, I don't know what ever happened to him. Might surface some day in JP's coulours maybe. Bar the hurdlers, the jumps season hasn't really caught my attention and I'm nearly looking forward to the return of the Flat.Silver Concorde travelled around like a dream in ground he wouldn't have loved and is definitely one you could see in the first 7 or 8 in the Champion Bumper but you wouldn't know with that race. It is nearly as much about how they react to the experience as talent at that stage. Oh well, better start looking busy and do a bit of work, I could have this thing open all day....nearly everyone still on holidays.


neill,Cul Baire has been sold to the U.S and has already ran once out there,(and not very well!)

Report SoYouThink January 3, 2014 6:13 PM GMT
The trouble for Russell is that the big owners and Willie Mullins have a monopoly on Irish racing.

JP = AP
O'Leary = Cooper
Wylie = Ruby
Ricci = Ruby
rest of Mullins = Ruby / Townend
Barry Connell = Danny Mullins
Potts = Andrew Lynch

Russell will have to content operating at the same level as the likes of David Casey, Robbie Power, Davy Condon and the likes of those.
Report kavvie January 3, 2014 6:14 PM GMT
sad thing is hes better than all of the above outside ruby!!
Report CheltenhamRoar January 3, 2014 6:22 PM GMT
What we need is a Qutar Racing style owner to join in the fun in ireland,That'd make things interesting,
They need to be into the NH game first though Cry
Report SoYouThink January 3, 2014 6:27 PM GMT
He probably is I agree ! It must be a very unrewarding job being a jockey in Ireland when you look at the number of riders there are riding and yet only a handful will ride 20 or more winners in a season. Little more than half a dozen will be fortunate to ride the winner of a big G1 race (basically only those attached with the big owners). If you're not someone listed above then you're competing with the likes of Paul Carberry for rides. If you're lucky you might find yourself on the right horse in a valuable handicap that's about as good as it gets. People bemoan the likes of Danny Mullins, Andrew Lynch and Paul Townend but they have done well to get themselves into their current jobs. Mullins and Lynch will at least go to Cheltenham with a couple of decent chances and Townend will get the odd Mullins second string.
Report one last chance January 3, 2014 6:34 PM GMT
That's been fair harsh on condon kavie
Report SoYouThink January 3, 2014 6:34 PM GMT
You look at the likes of Condon, Casey, McNamara, Power, and I know these guys might not be everyone's cup of tea but let's be fair they are all in the top 10-15 riders in Ireland at the moment. Yet what horse has any of them got to look forward for the remainder of the NH season. Absolutely nothing! Jezki maybe if Robbie Power gets very lucky. McNamara will be hoping Hidden Cyclone is another Newmill. I think Russell is going to find himself in a similar scenario and that's the unfortunate reality.
Report kavvie January 3, 2014 6:38 PM GMT
i only included the stable jockeys!!
Report neill d January 3, 2014 6:53 PM GMT
Good thing I wasn't in the market for a racehorse then Roar. I think Condon is as good as Russell at this stage. He was in smashing form during the summer and just needs the ammunition.
Report workrider January 3, 2014 6:55 PM GMT
Spot on   Neill , Condon the most underrated jock in Ireland atm...
Report neill d January 3, 2014 7:00 PM GMT
He's in danger of is time coming and going now workrider. Presume he'll get the Meade job when Carberry finishes but I'm not sure what that is worth without the Gigginstown horses. He should also get a fair few of Gordon Elliot's but the same comments apply to him as Meade except that there will be a few more winners.
Report workrider January 3, 2014 7:10 PM GMT
He's more than an able deputy for Paul , as i'm sure Noel and Gordon are aware ..If he remains injury free this season he could have a great year ...
Report MayoMan January 3, 2014 8:34 PM GMT
Gotta wonder why Gigginstown didn't go to Cooper for the Gold Cup ride on SDC instead of moving heaven and earth to get McCoy?  Cooper was riding with great confidence at the time.
Report punchestown January 3, 2014 9:34 PM GMT
MayoMan,he was deemed too inexperienced at the time iirc.
Report punchestown January 9, 2014 8:24 PM GMT
It gets worse for Davy

Solwhit will miss the defence of his Ladbrokes World Hurdle crown through injury according to trainer Charles Byrnes.
Byrnes has drawn stumps with the luckless 10-year-old after a fetlock problem which prevented him from making his reappearance at Leopardstown over Christmas failed to show the required improvement.
Big Buck's, who has not raced since December 2012, is now a warm order to rack up his fifth win in the race.
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