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wildmanfromborneo
23 Dec 13 11:40
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Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 21,252 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
He is a genius but he is good at the psychological stuff as well.

The other Irish trainers are afraid to run horses against him,this is partly the handicappers fault but a lot of it is this choreographed racing that's prevalent now.

He puts the word out you won't beat mine and his challengers suddenly go off feed.

This doesn't work for him in England,he is taken on and the result is his present poor strike rate there

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By:
Ozymandius
When: 23 Dec 13 11:45
Or possibly the competition is at a higher level in England?
By:
Arklearkle
When: 23 Dec 13 15:50
Which races are you talking about Wildman - surely not the handicaps. The only race I can think of was Annie Powers race where the result was the same anyway in that she was a comfortable winner. I dont see many of the UK horses challenging for the so-called easy grade ones in Ireland.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 23 Dec 13 16:58
Vicky De LOasis was beaten in Newbury in a novice hurdle.
Glens Melody was beaten in a hurdle in Cheltenham.

I think he has had one winner over there,this from the man who was talking about a satellite yard in England.

Wonder what Paddy Sleator would make of it all.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 23 Dec 13 17:17
Annie Power won at Ascot and he won a nothing race at Newcastle, the only 2 I can think of?.
By:
Arklearkle
When: 23 Dec 13 17:22
Excluding AP the few he sent over are well down the line in the pecking order at Willies. It must be very difficult to make money backing with all those biases/hang-ups!
By:
Slabster
When: 23 Dec 13 17:37
Gitane Du Berlais hosed up in a listed race at Aintree.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 23 Dec 13 17:50
Actually slabster thats the race, not Newcastle but Aintree, it was pretty much a non event couldn't have found an easier opportunity, the 3rd horse that day was well beaten at long odds on since.
By:
Santry
When: 23 Dec 13 17:57
The vast majority of Mullins winners this season are at very short SP's. Very few start at over 2/1 I would guess. Now I suggest 2 possible reasons for this. His horses are vastly superior or there is a grain of truth in Wildman's suggestion that he frightens the opposition off.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 11 Jan 14 22:12
Five pronged raid today yielding one winner.
Glens Melody won the first at Warwick but she had to do it the hard way,they don't buy the hype or give solos and certainly don't run away.

Scottish Memories would have about twice the amount of wins Willie Mullins has at this point of the season.
Not really a fair comparison but when Paddy Sleator targeted England he trained lots of winners.
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 14 22:19
Considering Paddy Sleator's were trained at a satellite yard in England,the comparison isn't relevant.
By:
tony57
When: 11 Jan 14 22:20
Wildman,
      bar for today..mullins was 4 wins from 81 over fences..and 1 in 30 over hurdles..bar Cheltenham..so he has a decent record @chelts..but dreadfull anywere else in uk
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 11 Jan 14 22:27
Its very relevant,Sleator trained them brought them over on the ferry travelled across England on sometimes poor roads stabled them with Arthur Thomas in Warwick( funnily enough).

Arthur Thomas did nothing with the Sleator horses and was used as a flag of convenience something that became obvious every time he was interviewed after a winner.

The stewards finally did Thomas on some trumped up charge.
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 14 22:35
I will have to concede this point to you,decades before my time,I just happened to reading about the topic in a book about the doping gang in the 1960's.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 11 Jan 14 22:37
In fairness it is fifty years ago.
By:
dj876
When: 11 Jan 14 22:44
You would probably enjoy the book,Doped by Jamie Reed,only 6.5/10 but it is readable.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 12 Jan 14 00:01
Wildman you started off this thread saying he's a genius subsequent post seem to contradict that view?
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 25 Jan 14 21:46
Annie Power is an exceptional mare so no surprise to see her win at 1/6 but his other runners in England are forced to race,no solos here and they get found out.

He psyches the other Irish trainers out of it,some of his horses get away with murder.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 27 Nov 14 20:17
Nothing much has changed in the last year,getting solos here taken on in England.

Willie Mullins even had the chutzpah to complain about the lack of suitable races for his novice chasers.

Clondaw Court was a perfect example of a solo today,gifted a ten length lead for nothing by a host of looker ons,could have been beaten if the others hadn't conceded the race before it started.
By:
workrider
When: 27 Nov 14 20:26
Backed Mount  Colan @ 9/4 w/o fav ,was counting my money after the last ...Cry
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 27 Nov 14 20:30
Mount Colah jumped off last,hustled up too quick and then failed to stay.
By:
workrider
When: 27 Nov 14 20:37
Think they might be trying to fool the h/capper with this lad , they have dropped him out the last twice , if dropping a few pounds they just might let him off from  the front and he'll win make no mistake...
By:
Bigwillystyle
When: 27 Nov 14 21:13
Would never stay 2m6F.  I place layed it and backed the second fav without fav and still lost on the race!

In no way are they trying to fool the handicapper.
By:
Bigwillystyle
When: 27 Nov 14 21:13
If he went in front today he would have been beaten 20L plus
By:
workrider
When: 27 Nov 14 22:41
You miss the point Littleman , running him over a distance to far , therefore getting him dropped a few pounds , drop him back in distance , pop him off in front , hey presto...
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 29 Nov 14 22:40
Still the drought continues,the english trainers don't run away they take him on,they are not afraid of the handicapper.

Now you know why he wants more races in Ireland for him to gallop his horses whilst picking up decent prize money.

They should have less of these races might stop all these heavy odds on shots.
By:
neill d
When: 30 Nov 14 01:08
Ah he could have taken that race had he pleased really, Annie Power, Fly, Faugheen, Un De Sceaux or Vautour all would have hacked up in that, the latter two could have done before going chasing. His training style doesn't lend itself to handicaps, beyond unexposed horses, one has to lose to win and that is of no interest to Mullins, he simply moves them on. Of high priority to Mullins is extending his  Irish dominance to the championship races at Cheltenham, he is a great trainer of novices, maybe the best ever, he needs a Champion Chase and a Gold Cup, and every good horse he has is treated with that aim in mind, the same with AOB with the Guineas and derby, the man doesn't mess around. It could be said that a few of the fellas who are supposed to be rivalling him here, who actually can really train, are too small minded to see the bigger picture. I'd have much more admiration for Willie's MO than for one of the most preeminent Irish trainers sending horses over to Perth, Ger Lyons won't keep a horse rated under sixty, our flat trainers take great races all over the world,  some of their National Hunt peers could maybe learn from that. The ferry over to Perth, for a would-be top trainer is like going up to the swankiest bar in town and counting out the coppers to make up the price of a pint.Ya shouldn't be seen doing it!!
By:
callitasucit
When: 30 Nov 14 01:18
Elliot has a lot of owners with poor animals though Neill. He does what he has to, to make it pay for them. Give them a day out and a winner. He is a top trainer, but doesn't have the wealth of talent that WPM has, or anywhere next nor near it.

My uncle had a horse years ago with Tony Martin years ago, Rahinine Melody. She won quite a few chases at Perth, she couldn't win over here. Owner happy,...buys more horses. Elliot learnt from Martin, and has done well to.

I would say Elliot also enjoys 'working the programme'. It shows a skill and attention to detail that many others could learn from. I certainly wouldn't say he is small minded.
By:
neill d
When: 30 Nov 14 01:29
It's a funny one though Callit, there is great skill in what both Elliot and Martin do, if you said to me they were 2 and 3 in the country in terms of  raw NH training talent, I wouldn't disagree, but I wonder does the schemer element put off a few of the really big owners, guys that might be like Ricci but don't even have a horse yet. Ireland is ripe for another big owner. I mean the likes of Ricci or Potts who couldn't afford to be associated with even a hint of controversy given their professional lives. It is a bit like Harry Redknapp, great at what he does, but he'll never manage England or Manchester United. martin in particular limits himself because of how he is perceived.
By:
neill d
When: 30 Nov 14 01:31
The above post is a bit of a maybe, but you'd just wonder why nobody has come through to rival Mullins.
By:
callitasucit
When: 30 Nov 14 08:37
Yeah, its definitely a possibility alright. Ricci came out of nowhere, so maybe there is another potential big owner lurking out there. If he went with the Irish scene, and Elliot didnt get any of the distribution, it would be worrying for him.

As good as Mullins is, and the added bonus of having Ruby, I doubt anyone who had plans to be as prominent anbd successful in the game as RR would send their string to Mullins. Un de Sceaux got the poor mans treatment all of last year, and that would certainly be a worry for anyone sending a good one there.

If I was buying something half decent, I would have Elliot as my first port of call. He isn't as tarnished as say Martin(perception wise), and has proved a very good target trainer. Also very fair to his owners. 

It would be superb for Irish racing if someone did come along to rival Riccis purchasing power, as all the eggs are in the one basket at the moment.

Elliot may have a star on his hands in the shape of yesterdays bumper winner. He has been very impressive in contrasting races on this last two runs. Made for chasing, I would hope he will be hurdling by Christmas. He is one to keep on side.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 30 Nov 14 08:54
Willie Mullins is well aware of the mild criticism about his training of chasers and responds to it in yesterday's Racing Post.
I think this criticism is unfair and think he is a great trainer of chasers.

There are some fair points on this thread about the horses he trains and he is not generally looking to train handicappers but he has still landed some monster punts in handicaps.
He doesn't get them handicapped himself some other trainer does that job,Willie then gets the horse and improves it two stone,Thousand Flowers being the best example.
By:
Santry
When: 30 Nov 14 10:26
All the big owners seem to want WPM. Gigginstown held out far many years but eventually got involved. Surely with the amount of money owners and quality horses available it is understandable handicappers are not his thing. His space and time is limited. The NH game is very lopsided at present and there surely is space for another rival set- similiar to the role Dermot Weld fills on the flat.
By:
rubyisgodinthesaddle
When: 30 Nov 14 12:21
Remember a few years ago Willie took a few castoffs and they were landing massive gambles.

I remember one at Naas in a hurdle, cant remember the horse...punted off the boards and hacked up. Agree with Wildman
By:
CheltenhamRoar
When: 30 Nov 14 16:08
I presume you mean thousand stars wildman,You're 100% correct with that horse,

How many horses has jp had with mullins?Only one i remember is Arbour supreme,Hasn't has many others has he?

Ye can certainly understand why.
By:
callitasucit
When: 30 Nov 14 19:34
As far as I know, WPM and JP don't really get on.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 30 Nov 14 19:54
Its not that they don't get on its just Willie Mullins likes to make all the decisions,he runs horses as if they were all his own.

Another aspect is Willie Mullins does not like gamblers,this goes back to the days of the Silver Bachelor
He remembers the roaring when a gamble didnt come off,he remembers the constant demand for winners,demand for " information "

Willie Mullins also rode for Barney Curley when that man landed some spectacular punts in bumpers,his easy going style and ability to take defeat made it seem there was no gambling going on.

McManus only got into the stable by buying Arbour Supreme.

Willie Mullins has an aversion to gambling and never gambles,which is why I have always maintained that if he ever figured out how much was being made by some stable insiders he would look for a cut.
By:
Tolmi
When: 30 Nov 14 20:14
Barney Curley does not have an easy going style as anyone who has seen him lose the plot with Luke Harvey and John Mc Cririck will testify.

Also if Monica Dickinson could return from the dead and post on here I would be fairly sure she would put you straight fairly quickly on your belief that he can take defeat well.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 30 Nov 14 20:25
Its only when he feels wronged that he loses is cool.

Although seeing most of those bumper horses won and were well ridden might have had something to do with his calm demeanour.

He had a monster bet on Wayward Lad in Dawn Runs Gold Cup,took like a Christian,congratulated all around it was only later others discovered how much he lost.
By:
Tolmi
When: 30 Nov 14 20:33
I was referring to the Robin Goodfellow episode.I always found it fascinating the difference between his reaction to GB's ride on that and the way he campaigned his own horses.
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