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insideinfo
01 Jan 13 12:29
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Date Joined: 03 Mar 07
| Topic/replies: 634 | Blogger: insideinfo's blog
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Report silvergreaser January 1, 2013 1:40 PM GMT
Long since they stopped doing online betting, just an advertisement site.
Report insideinfo January 1, 2013 2:04 PM GMT
I see.Do they still take bets on racing over the phone though? New Years day,loads of meetings on and not a mention of prices anywhere.
Report silvergreaser January 1, 2013 2:30 PM GMT
Yeah I think they still do phone betting but I think you have to ring them to open an account?.

Hacketts are the same, in an age where the internet is king many bookmakers decide to cancel online betting, almost like a phone tap all the information they need is written in stone if they want to monitor customers?.
Report insideinfo January 1, 2013 2:59 PM GMT
Thanks for that.I can remember Grahams being one of the first firms to price up all races early morning,now everyone does it and you cant even find a price for a horse with Grahams online.The worry i would have about opening a phone account is that different customers could be offered dirrerent prices on the same horses if you know what i mean!

Loooks like a company in decline imo,wont bother opening an acc as plenty offering a much better service.
Report Tolmi January 1, 2013 3:11 PM GMT
Not sure if Grahams ever really embraced the internet.Did they ever have a fully operational online site?
Report silvergreaser January 1, 2013 3:21 PM GMT
They did Tolmi, use to have their prices advertised on channel 4 teletex.

The brothers just do the on-course, the shops were handed over to a couple of ex Ladbrokes heads, turned it into an accountancy.

I use to work for them and never even blinked taking 4 figure bets, now same as them all have a €100 at 6/4 and its straight on the phone to head office.
Report Tolmi January 1, 2013 3:40 PM GMT
I remember them having their prices advertised but can't recall them having a site where you could log in and bet online.
Report silvergreaser January 1, 2013 3:52 PM GMT
They use to have a load of flyers in the shop advertising their online betting tolmi.
Report Kelly January 1, 2013 5:07 PM GMT
Things have changed , in line with most of the bean counters calling themselves bookies . Remember the times they used to lay well , silvergreaser , used to take big 4 figure bets , dont think they would lay much nowadays .  Closed my account after I backed a 33/1 golf winner with them years ago . I was already barred for cash bets in certain offices .  Nobody will lay you if you back winners or shorteners .
Report silvergreaser January 1, 2013 5:52 PM GMT
Use to have us monitor big betting customers Kelly, would lay them all day when they were on a losing run which was more often than not, we used nicknames for each individual, the pub next door had its fair share of heavy hitters, but over the years the information they were getting improved big time, a certain trainer became very friendly with the publican, as such they slowly started knocking them back and when the brothers abandoned the shop business and concentrated on-course, the former Ladbrokes accountants had a revolution but not in a good way of course.
Report wildmanfromborneo January 1, 2013 5:59 PM GMT
Sean has long since left and successfully gone out on his own,the rest gave up on course for a while but have returned to all tracks in the last few years.Their father was charismatic and an out an out gentleman but he wasn't a gambling bookmaker indeed he was risk averse and the present outfit have brought it to a different level.The mother remarried and he seems in overall charge,definitely a risk averse gentleman.
Report Cupwinkcook January 1, 2013 11:04 PM GMT
I have no problem with indos not pricing up every morning as they will get ripped off by arbers and lose in the long run.

What I miss is the vibrancy from Irish indos for big irish meetings, antepost at cheltenham and the football all-ireland where each firm had an odds compiler and a set of prices and there was no mad panic to mop up a price.

With betpack, all you get is generic prices.
Report Eddie Batt January 1, 2013 11:55 PM GMT
In 2005 I opened an online account with them and My first bet was 50ew on a horse that was placed in the Supreme Novice Hurdle at 33/1.I then attempted to have 50ew on SPotthedifference in the cross country race -the max allowed by their website was a single figure amount.When I complained I was told to ring and the chances of getting the bet approved would be increased.I was going through a purple patch at the time and any time I requested  a payment to my account they looked for an awful amount of information-presumably in the hopes that Iwould hit a rough patch and blow the lot.
When AIntree came round I asked for 6 x 10 euro combination tricasts on the Topham chase-I was told I could have the bet for 1 or 2 euros.I won a few quid off them but from the first bet (at the festival) which showed a profit of 362.50 they were monitoring the account or whatever the correct expression is.
I know b3.65 get a lot of stick but they will give an account the chance to win a few quid as long as it's not snide each way or inside information.
Report Allduckornodinner January 2, 2013 12:03 AM GMT
Is it worth opening an a/c with B365 Eddie? Their odds compilers are so brutal on Irish races that I always assumed they were happy to get their cards marked by the early birds for buttons. Even if you could get a ton on at their first show it's be alrite (e.g. the 3's on Zuzka in Leop) considering how far you'd be beating the SP. I'm not the type to arb back here but i'd imagine they'd wouldn't be long limiting you regardless?
Report dj876 January 2, 2013 12:23 AM GMT
If u haven't had an account before with them,the initial free bet offer is tasty,€200 deposit/bet and €200 free bet(but unlike all other major bookmakers you get to keep the free stake).

It's possible to avoid getting your online accounts restricted by doing a lot of unpaid,tedious preparatory work.
Report Rocketfingers January 2, 2013 1:29 AM GMT
365 closed my account, so opened one in my auld man's name last 6 bets before being limited 4 more bets and they limited to getting 10 cents on a bet.
Report Rocketfingers January 2, 2013 1:31 AM GMT
Actually think my own account may have bee limited to cents but i think they're a joke of a firm.
Report Kelly January 2, 2013 2:10 AM GMT
Think I have had one bet ( cash , off piste) in one of their offices in last year , dont even remember what it was on . One of their offices which I used quite a  lot is nowadays  more or less empty any time I go in , used to be very busy .  But that comment applies  equally well to most of the shops I used to visit  , not just Grahams .

I honestly dont think there are many regular decent punting customers these days in most of the bookies .  Only shops I see a good few punters in are PP , and that is down to specials and good PR as far as I can figure . And they have different criteria for different shops , depends on the neighbours and how they operate .  Thats their prerogative .

The business of backing horses is now completely internet driven , the only way to beat the bookie  system is to have inside information or to be very shrewd and anonymous .  Inside info winners dont last long though before they get outed by the  account checking programs . Shrewd and anonymous involves a lot of leg work and lots of smallish cash bets , and woe betide anyone who clicks a bet or series of bets .

Just be thankful the exchanges dont ask for your motives and information before accepting a bet  , and dont limit winning accounts  . Plus they give you instant figures re your losses if you have them , and you cant kid yourself if you lose .  Anyone who loses regularly should pack it in , unless they have unlimited resources and are only in it for the fun . Or go play the FOBTs , any sane person knows they cant win there or in a casino  , any numbers game .
Report reb January 2, 2013 12:06 PM GMT
dj876

If u haven't had an account before with them,the initial free bet offer is tasty,€200 deposit/bet and €200 free bet(but unlike all other major bookmakers you get to keep the free stake).

GADZOOKS !!
Report kavvie January 2, 2013 5:24 PM GMT
b365 are not a bookie at all.they are a joke firm.keep away because they will drive you mad trying to get on with them.i know the prices they put up the evening before are sometimes wrong but if you cant get on whats the point.
Report dj876 January 2, 2013 5:57 PM GMT
Kavie,you will get restricted if you open an account and immediately back horses that shorten or winners(similar to every other online account),it amazes me that people just accept this and are not resourceful enough to find ways around it.
Report kavvie January 2, 2013 6:11 PM GMT
no way round it dj.im restricted same way on pp.but if i go into a pp shop i get on no prob..im not backing much lately so it doesnt bother me..
Report dj876 January 2, 2013 6:23 PM GMT
There is no way round it??I do a lot of arbing and can tell you there are numerous ways around it, if you are willing to do a lot of unpaid,tedious preparatory work.

You can't think of anyway that you could be perceived as a mug but not be a net loser??
Report workrider January 2, 2013 6:37 PM GMT
if i remember correctly bigwillystyle spoke very highly of this outfit , he said he never had a problem getting big bets on with them....
Report kavvie January 2, 2013 6:41 PM GMT
multiple acs?i wouldnt be too bothered to be honest.f i need to put on a big bet i just do my own thing in shops..i find arbing tedios and the reward very small at the end.
Report dj876 January 2, 2013 6:54 PM GMT
No,not multiple accounts,Gl.
Report brain dead jockeys January 2, 2013 7:20 PM GMT
all the firms are the same now guys.........they are businesses who want consistent returns so dont want to take any risks and dont want to waste their employees time with accounts that break even over a long period of time, never mind make a profit.
what annoys me is when we have to listen to their reps pretending that they take sizeable bets from people other than compulsive gamblers.......
Report lapsy pa January 2, 2013 7:37 PM GMT
Same i think can be said for betfair BDJs,they don,t want "winners" as the premium charge testifies,only difference you can "get on" even though more often at a worse price on a shorter price selection than the books are offering.
Their model is getting increasingly based on encouraging people to "play games"(as do books) or desperate value fixed odds products or those too lazy to push a button "cash out" feature.Make no mistake the bean counters are here too.
Report Cupwinkcook January 2, 2013 8:42 PM GMT
Key to arbing is BOG.

If you do 100 arbs and get 5 drifting winners, it's free money.

Union Dues, 9/4 top price to 3/1 sp for example

Plenty examples over Christmas.
Report Cupwinkcook January 2, 2013 8:44 PM GMT
365 are great until you are restricted, everyone should open an account, but you'll be frustrated when the cutoff happens.
Report Kelly January 2, 2013 8:58 PM GMT
Can see the logic in BOG being a profitmaker , Cupwink . Think I have only one account which allows BOG though , and it is only laying for buttons . Dont think Grahams were ever BOG on their accounts , were they ?( my account only lasted a few months , so cant remember specifically ) .  Their shops used to be BOG , which was good when you could get on . Not sure if they are now , but their prices are rubbish  from what I have seen the odd time I go in now .
Report Send.in.the.clowns January 2, 2013 9:54 PM GMT
If Sean Graham wouldn't lay Eddie Batt a tenner combination tricast in the topham they should get there license taking of them. Pathetic
Report Eddie Batt January 2, 2013 10:00 PM GMT
Bet365 are my only account apart from betfair for the last 3 years-they won't allow me match bets but I find them to be very fair.As I said before I tend not to get information and don't ask for sneaky ew bets.
Report insideinfo January 3, 2013 5:37 PM GMT
Was passing a sean graham today so decided to call in,early prices for the 405 wolverhamphon were on the screen at the time and they were betting 7/2 justcallmehandsome (4/1 available elsewhere) 9/2 stamp duty (5/1 elsewhere) and 13/2 about each of the next two in the betting which were both available at at least 7/1 with other firms.I just chuckled to myself and walked out thinking its no wonder they dont want to publicise these prices online because if anyone knew how terrible they were they would never bother going into the shop in the first place!
Report Kelly January 4, 2013 2:16 AM GMT
Sad thing is , insideinfo , that up to about 5 years ago their prices and specials were competitive . Kept the punters interested  , they instituted a lot of "firsts" locally and it was relevant for some local punters who largely only had access to Graham shops for various logistical reasons etc . And they had thrived from roots in Townsend pitch ( Uncle Matts late fifties ) and Markets rental shop( Shenkers ? ) to owning around 50 shops or so by eighties . Down to Sean ( snr ) , brilliant bookie  , dynamo .

They are not alone though , most of our locally grown bookies have sold out to the nationals , shrewd enough move in all cases in my book .  Take the money and praise the Lord ! Just hope for their sakes  they didn't invest in property !
Report Deplasterer January 4, 2013 11:48 AM GMT

Jan 3, 2013 -- 8:16PM, Kelly wrote:


Sad thing is , insideinfo , that up to about 5 years ago their prices and specials were competitive . Kept the punters interested  , they instituted a lot of "firsts" locally and it was relevant for some local punters who largely only had access to Graham shops for various logistical reasons etc . And they had thrived from roots in Townsend pitch ( Uncle Matts late fifties ) and Markets rental shop( Shenkers ? ) to owning around 50 shops or so by eighties . Down to Sean ( snr ) , brilliant bookie  , dynamo .They are not alone though , most of our locally grown bookies have sold out to the nationals , shrewd enough move in all cases in my book .  Take the money and praise the Lord ! Just hope for their sakes  they didn't invest in property !


Willie Duffy for his 20 odd shops in Derry reportedly got around 20 million from brokelads, invested some of that in Lifford dog stadium and a few bars by all accounts.

Report lustrumm January 4, 2013 1:47 PM GMT
Paddies saw them all off, sad but true fact
Report Kelly January 4, 2013 3:20 PM GMT
In todays context , Deplasterer , that was a decent lift .  BJE averaged out at over 2 million a shop according to reports , but some of them were big offices . That deal was not the best looking with hindsight for Ladcrooks . Any of those offices I visit ( occasionally) look like they are not busy , certainly staffing would be only about 50-60% of what they used to need . Only thing busy there are the  pernicious  FOBTs.

PP only one I see with punters in them regularly  , but none near me geographically .
Report keen leader January 4, 2013 4:56 PM GMT
the single biggest layer on this island in the last 100 years was a belfast bookie called jim "pickles" rice.

he had some monster punters and he played them and made a package especially in the period straight after ww2, a time when belfast was awash.

pickles had amongst other track pitches, the number 1 at aintree. i was shown his ledger from the 1948 meeting, and the second bet he struck was a 50,000-40,000 on a winner...easily the current equilavalent of 5 million to 4.

pickles was a quoted company, with the multiple machines to back him up, he was a layer with courage. compare and contrast with the cowards running organisations today which in truth were originally set by brave men.

one other true story, bernstein, the belfast bookie, who set up what turned into stanleys, was once laying(cluelessly as it turned out) at dunmore dogs years ago. a friend of mine, known to bernstein came up to the joint that he wanted 2 large on trap 1 at 3/1, walked away, bet not paid on. dog duly wins, bernstein runs up to the steps of the stand and says to my pal would it be alright if he settled for 2 grand in cash on the night and he could collect the remaining 4 grand the next day. my pal was a little ataken aback as he actually only wanted a 600-200(as he was a puuter on normally for another punter), naturally he kept his counsel and accepted the jew mans generosity. the best dog punter in the north of ireland at the moment is billy th., he could verify this amusing tale, as the incident involved one of his oldest pals.
Report keen leader January 4, 2013 4:57 PM GMT
sentence could have read....pickles was not a quoted company...............etc
Report never give up January 4, 2013 6:02 PM GMT
tom ?
Report murphyjust. January 4, 2013 6:17 PM GMT
Rocketfingers 02 Jan 13 01:31 Joined: 20 May 10 | Topic/replies: 5,127 | Blogger: Rocketfingers's blog
Actually think my own account may have bee limited to cents but i think they're a joke of a firm.


complete joke of a firm. recorded net profits of 120m sterling last year and founder paid herself £20m directors bonus on top of a £6m chief exec package.

I'd love to be that sort of a joke!!
Report Kelly January 4, 2013 8:38 PM GMT
Jim Rice had the top pitch at the dogs in Celtic and Dunmore  , certainly up to the sixties  , plus offices in Belfast , mainly city centre .  Along with some other bookies they were fearless layers , largely because there was plenty of money about . Have recounted this before , one bookie I knew of was £3000 ahead after 3 races at Celtic , a semi-d could be bought for £500 . 1940's  . That bookie would have been in top 5 at the time , and it wasn't a "big" meeting . Not sure Billy T is old enough to have been involved in those halcyon days . Over 40,000 at a dog meeting in Celtic in 1930's , 200 bookies on the "outside" .

Can believe the other story too , some of those standing were nowhere near as well organised as most of todays occupants of thwe ring .

Strange thing about Jim Rice was that at the height of his activity he lived in a rented house on the Donegal Road according to the founder of the firm whose thread we are on .  Ever read  " Rich Man , Poor Man " ?
Report greedkillsmybankagain January 5, 2013 3:29 PM GMT
Happy
Report never give up January 9, 2013 10:54 PM GMT
at least mc leans in belfast will take a bet,well except for a dirty ew bet.......was in there office opposite the europa today and they had plenty of special offers........money back at horses and dogs specials
Report Kelly January 9, 2013 11:59 PM GMT
Not chicken at their prices ,ngu , but seldom top price . Used to do a fair bit of golf punting with them , but prices contracted . And none of their offices to hand for me  , sort of a divide with BJE when he was operating .

Was in a PP office this morning , new display for "early prices " , excellent .  Just like the old days of a priced up marker board , surprised it has taken so long for the penny to drop on this sort of info which is why most of us go to an office . Waiting for screens to scroll ( or ignore us) is a waste of time and the staff in a lot of shops resent anyone interfering with their chat while they have to press buttons for enquiry . In and out of a Hills office today in 60 seconds though , rugby bets organised top prices , no query  , early morning though .
Report insideinfo January 10, 2013 5:59 PM GMT
never give up,mcleans prices on the horses are diabolical!! they have someone sitting on oddschecker all day and as soon as powers/ladbrokes/hills cut a horse they immediately go under whatever price its been cut to elsewhere! A SIGN OF REALLY BRAVE LAYERS (NOT!) As for their "offers" they are no better/worse than the rest.Check out their crappy webpage and compare how bad their racing prices are for yourself.
Report never give up January 10, 2013 6:06 PM GMT
agreed about most of there prices,but the special offers would suit a lot of there everyday punters
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