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Leopardstown Festival

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Replies: 219
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 30 Dec 12 23:32
Just because there are two of ye doesn't make it right.
There is no moving of the goalposts as I have remained constant but have tried to show ye some type of proof,Glens Melody was backed and then got that ride,my assertion is that Willie to deflect pressure from Patrick put the word out that the stable fancied Glens Melody she was then backed this kept Zuska at odds against and gave them a get out of jail card if the stewards questioned the ride.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 30 Dec 12 23:57
That's all well and good, Pa, I refer to the statement highlighted here;

not for the first time Willie told his usual contacts to back Glens Melody to deflect some pressure from Patrick

Can anyone on here genuinely tell me that they agree with this statement?
By:
silvergreaser
When: 31 Dec 12 00:47
Or maybe the public on the strength of the usually reticent cryptic Mullins took it that Glens Melody was the one and it was the public money not the stable money?.
By:
p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y
When: 31 Dec 12 09:52
Zuzka was the one well backed was it not? The horse was put in by 1 bookmakers @ 3/1 the night before i know, she was then returned 11/10 i think and there was a sea of blue on oddschecker all day.

And Wildmand my second paragraph does not unwittingly back you up, you are saying Willie Mullins knew Zuzka was a good thing but decided to lie to his contacts and put them away to deflect pressure away from Patrick on Zuzka, to me that is quite ludicrous.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 10:12
Reading races and markets differently is part of racing and your analysis of the market on Zuska is correct when it was in its early stages,you along with JayTrumpOldTomDubble rightly pointed out to Zuskas superior form so the bookmaker that went 3/1 just made an error,I also accept all the early money was for Zuska it seemed to me the horse would go off odds on and that's why Willie Mullins stepped in,he said that Glens Melody was the best of his pair this caused the late plunge on Glens Melody and the drift on Zuska,he also put the word out that Outlander wouldn't win again to deflect pressure,this was not updated and caused another massive drift.
I have no problem with you disagreeing with me but am slightly disappointed you didn't comment on the way Glens Melody was ridden and would still like your views on that.
By:
p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y
When: 31 Dec 12 10:21
Really he told people Outlander would not win? I'm surprised at that seen as i received a call from the man who rears my dogs telling me they had been told to have a good bet on it.
By:
p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y
When: 31 Dec 12 10:22
I should add i didn't back Outlander though Cry
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 10:27
I didn't back it either,I thought he looked quirky at Fairyhouse but decent.
The pressure is off now and think Shake The Tree is a near certainty today,watch this lad being punted to odds on.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 10:34
That should be lass rather than lad.
She was left a long way at Wexford yet still managed to finish fourth which was some performance.
By:
Rocketfingers
When: 31 Dec 12 10:54
So in the parade ring, Mullins and Meade plot everything, Mullins telling people to bet outsiders so a horse will drift as he does not want he wee boy to feel the pressure of an odds on shot Laugh
By:
kavvie
When: 31 Dec 12 10:56
lot better race than wexford though.i had her down as a must back next time out but looking at the race i think taking evens or less is very tight..
By:
Cupwinkcook
When: 31 Dec 12 11:01
Zuzka was steady most of the day, the sea of blue was 5/4 into 11/10

Bookies were expecting more pressure on the price

Glens Melody was weak on here, the late money could have just been to keep the sp in check by the offices.
She was strong on the place market.

Outlander was unusual, backed at 2.68, drifted to 3, back into 2.75, then drifted to 3.4 before the off
By:
lapsy pa
When: 31 Dec 12 11:17
Its a better race alright kavvie but still not very strong imo,if i had to take her on it would probably be with an ew on Kris Kindle at a near double figure price,she raced on the "wrong side" up the straight at Navsn last time,her previous two seconds were creditable where she stayed on without really quickening.
By:
Santry
When: 31 Dec 12 11:46
Zuzka ,on its run behind Jezki at Fairyhouse was a good thing in the race. The Mullins camp decided to take advantage of this to allow Patrick a simple chance to break the record. I know if I were Patrick I would far rather the "pressure" of an 11/10 chance than a 20/1 shot to break the record. Looking at it any other way is looking for things that are not there . Thought Patrick came across as a very fine and decent young man in his interview on ATR afterwards and a credit to his family.
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 31 Dec 12 12:17
People seem to have forgetten that Patrick couldn't have ridden Glens Melody even if he wanted to.

The simple facts are the best mare with the best form was the strongly supported favourite while the mare with the most potential to improve was a steady second fav. Result was Zuzka won as expected and Rubys mare wasn't given a hard time when it became obvious that the winner was a cert bar a fall.

All this talk about pressure and putting people off is pure crap. PW must have ridden a few hundred winners by now and, while the record was an important personal milestone, they are still running a business and pressure doesn't come into it. The Mullins family have been involved in racing long enough to be philosophical about such matters. The reality is that the Grade One wins for Back in Focus and Hurricane Fly were much more important than PW getting the record as fine an achievement as it was by him.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 16:11
All this talk about pressure and putting people off is pure crap. PW must have ridden a few hundred winners by now and, while the record was an important personal milestone, they are still running a business and pressure doesn't come into it. The Mullins family have been involved in racing long enough to be philosophical about such matters

Correct, sir.

The pressure is off now and think Shake The Tree is a near certainty today,watch this lad being punted to odds on.

How did that near certainty work out for you, Borneo?  No doubt, however, that the result unwittingly conclusively proves some conspiracy theory or other to you, do tell.
By:
dj876
When: 31 Dec 12 16:25
I think if the Christmas period racing has highlighted anything,it is that the bumper brigade at Closutton is not as deep as normal and there could be some value in opposing them for the next while.

Wildman,your betting theory on the Zuzka/Glens Melody race is simplistic and nonsensical.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 18:26
The result of the last at Punchestown  meant I ended the year on a loser,I also backed Corbally in the second last and backed it win only because I thought it would either win or be tailed off.I am glad I stuck to my vow of never betting anything at Tramore the place is a law onto itself.
I think ye underestimate pressure,I think ye underestimate paternalistic concern,look at other sports for examples of pressure getting to people,Greg Norman as fine a golfer as you are likely to see reduced to a wreck by constant bad luck and pressure,the Frenchman in Carnoustie ended up frazzled,penalty shoot outs in soccer,now throw in the mix of danger that jockeys have.
Allduckornodinner  no one forgot Patrick couldn't do the weight on Glens Melody indeed that lent weight to Willie Mullins assertion that she was the one to back,I think time may prove Glens Melody a better mare than Zuska and none of ye have come up with a cogent reason for the way Ruby rode her.I also have shown Willie has form in this regard as in Patricks first hurdle win he decided on Limerick he saddled the favourite and second favourite 5/4 and 9/4 with his son riding the 9/4 shot and winning.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 18:37
Santry agree with you about Patrick Mullins comes across as a fine young man and modest as well.
Some may get the wrong idea that I dislike Willie Mullins,I don't I admire him and I commend him for looking after his son,he is a brilliant trainer but I dislike his column in the Racing Post and dislike the putting away of some punters when done in an unsolicited way.
By:
Catch Me ifyoucan
When: 31 Dec 12 18:42
Gerard McGrath, breeder of Champion Hurdle hope Jered from the RP in 2009.....

ARCTIC RUN was a top-notch jumps broodmarebrood, producing two Grade 1 winners in Strong Run and Leading Run for her owner Michael McGrath.
Michael 'HOPPER' McGrath is a former Irish sportsperson who played hurling with Galway in the 1980s, a decorated war hero who was given the titles Knight Grand Cross, and Knight Grand Cross of the Holy Sepulchre for his commitment to his faith and generosity to charities.

Both McGrath and the mare have sadly passed away, but the next generation looks as though it will maintain family honour, with McGrath's son Gerard breeding last season's Punchestown Champion Novice Hurdle winner and Smurfit Kappa Champion Hurdle contender Jered out of Arctic Run's daughter La Noire.

Having spent most of his career running various business interests, including a period with the family's timber importing firm, Gerard McGrath moved home to Athdara Stud, the property established by his father around four miles from Fairyhouse racecourse in County Meath, to look after his mother and oversee the farm, which is currently home to four mares.

Although McGrath was no stranger to racing - La Noire ran in his colours - he was less familiar with breeding, and he puts the decision to send the Phardante mare to Presenting before that sire established himself as a top-class jumps sire down to beginner's luck.

"I was a novice to the game then, and I picked the sire judging purely by his size and performances," he says.
"It goes to show that not knowing is sometimes a good thing!"

The family have always bred to race; Leading Run and Strong Run both carried Michael McGrath's colours to top-flight victory, and the majority of Arctic Run's other foals began their careers in their breeder's ownership.

Gerard McGrath also owned Jered on his first three runs, before accepting an offer from JP McManus.
"I never entered breeding with the dream of holding the Champion Hurdle trophy aloft - although it would be a wonderful bonus, of course. Primarily, I like to play the sport rather than watch it.

"When I put him into training with Noel Meade, I told him that I'd be interested in selling the horse if I received the right offer. Noel told me that JP McManus could be interested and we negotiated a good price for him."

McGrath spotted that Jered could possess considerable talent when the horse was still a foal. "I've got a great stud manager here, Eamonn Manning, who saw that Jered was bullying all the others, and you often find that the aggressive horses are the ones who turn out to be the best."

These are exciting times for McGrath: not only will he be on the edge of his seat today to see whether Jered can bully his Champion Hurdle rivals into submission, but Jered's year-younger half-sister, Miss Squiff - who has guaranteed herself a future berth at Athdara Stud as the only daughter of La Noire - and his two years-younger half-brother, Joe Pye, both by Saddlers' Hall, are due to make their debuts for trainer Colm Murphy in the coming weeks.

Furthermore, La Noire is due to Flemensfirth and will then return to Presenting for the first time since Jered was conceived.

In possession of such a successful family, and with some of Ireland's finest National Hunt trainers at his disposal, McGrath seems to have it all - although he is the first to admit he does not seem to have much luck with the Irish Turf Club over the naming of his horses. HE EXPLAINS: "When Jered was born, he was very reddish in colour - like Bambi. So, bearing in mind many from Arctic Run's family had a name ending in 'Run', I tried to call him Red Run but they turned the name down because it sounded too much like Red Rum!

"In the end I thought that, because La Noire is jet black, he would be jet red, but with the 't' dropped.

"I had similar problems with Miss Squiff - she has a crooked blaze on her face, just like Saddlers' Hall. I had wanted to call her Squiffy, but that name was taken. And then with Joe Pye, I suggested about half a dozen names that were all turned down, so out of frustration I looked through a dictionary and saw this name, which is a weed. Let's hope he's a weed by name, not by nature!"

With an as yet unnamed four-year-old half-brother to Jered, as well as a yearling and two-year-old half-brother by Milan, it looks as though there could be many more naming skirmishes with the authorities ahead.

Asked how he assesses Jered's Champion Hurdle chances, McGrath says: "I backed him about two weeks ago when it became clear that he was an intended runner, but the ground will be all-important.

"Noel has three entries in the race - Jered, Harchibald and Muirhead - but if the ground is good, I think Jered will definitely do best of the trio. I won't be able to make it over to Cheltenham, but I'll be glued to the television to see how he does."

WHAT PRICE WOULD JEZKI MAKE IF SOLD NOW ?
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 18:44
Still no one agreeing with your statement then.

dj876 labels your views 'simplistic and nonsensical', allduck calls them 'pure crap'. premier and my good self proclaim that they are 'the most ridiculous thing ever written on here'.

Starting to wonder if you are a 'racing man' at all.

More like a betting shop spouter of drivel.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 18:55
They disagree with me which is fair enough,I never mind being in the minority.
The one constant in the people in your camp is they produce no argument just throw a few gratuitous insults is it not possible to disagree without rancour,it is also significant that you leave out your buddy Rocketfingers who with his horse owner hat on thinks my theory is nonsense too
None of ye have explained the ride given to Glens Melody
None of ye have explained all the money for Glens Melody
I understand Ozymandius and Rocketfingers not understanding paternal instincts but am surprised at others.
By:
p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y
When: 31 Dec 12 19:00
I didn't see the race hence why i have not commented on the ride given to Glens Melody. However me not seeing the race does not matter as i'm not debating the way a horse was or was not ridden i'm saying that your assertion that Willie Mullins put his contacts away telling them to back Glens Melody when he really thought Zuzka was a good thing just to defelct pressure off Patrick is rubbish. As i've already stated anybody with an ounce of ability to read form would have known her run behind Jezki (especially in light of what he did) and Champagne Fever was top notch for and a reproduction of that run would have easily been enough to win, Patrick would have known this too.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 19:02
We are not merely disagreeing with you.  Read the quotes I highlighted.  The words used by various posters should tell you something; 'simplistic and nonsensical, 'pure crap', 'the most ridiculous thing ever written on here'.

We have nothing to explain.  Your assertion;

not for the first time Willie told his usual contacts to back Glens Melody to deflect some pressure from Patrick

is utter gargbage.  All your efforts to muddy the water and throw up tangential assertions do not deflect from this.

Have a good look at yourself in the New Year, will 'ye'?
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 19:06
I agree with your analysis on Zuskas form,there is no greater admirer of Jezki than me but how then can you explain all the money for Glens Melody and how Zuska didn't start odds on.
By:
p_r_e_m_i_e_r__f_a_n_t_a_s_y
When: 31 Dec 12 19:09
I didn't see the market on here or on course for the race but what i saw before i went out was all the money was for Zuzka, well she was the one getting cut by the off course books.

Zuzka 3/1 (with 1 off course book i know off, how much they took is another matter) into 11/10 fav i think she ended up
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 19:11
You are some coward Ozymandius emboldened by numbers you start your little campaign but just saying something is nonsense doesn't make it so.In normal debate you present what you think are pertinent facts and the other side present theirs,you are incapable of doing that on racing but the others are and I still hope they will do so.
Obviously the word ye upsets your Patrician mind,it shouldn't it's common enough in rural Ireland but then you think we are beneath you.
By:
lapsy pa
When: 31 Dec 12 19:17
As in last nights post think the money for Glens Melody came on the back of WM's pre race interview with G o B where WM was keen on her(a few minutes before the race) can,t understand the ride on G M myself(as said last night) Anyway you put a view up in the bumper which was wrong and happens to us all(punters)nothing was said by yourself Ozy beforehand about the race and maybe your "true forum" is actually chit chat.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 19:18
Its such an absurd statement that there is no need to present the opposite argument.  If you were to assert that 'the moon is a balloon' I would not waste time expaining to you why it isn't.

Sort yourself out.
By:
workrider
When: 31 Dec 12 19:18
of course hes a coward wildmanfromborneo ,.he's also a **** stirrer of the highest order ...he needs his daily diet of ego feeding ...i think your parental  view is a little to much for the lad .....
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 19:22
I don't put up horse tips, Pa.  They wouldn't be worthwhile to anyone, I would just be guessing.

And I don't make a habit of slagging off people who do.  But when the words 'near certainty' are used, and also in the context of this wider discusssion whereby a successful outcome would have been seized upon as conclusive proof of some conspiracy or other, it was only right to draw attention to it.

Happy New Year btw!
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 19:24
where have you been, workrider?  Borneo has been taking one hell of a beating!  I noticed even you couldn't bring yoursef to agree with his absurd statement!
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 31 Dec 12 19:27
You are beginning to post like Rocketfingers now,that phrase hell of a beating is a favourite of his one he usually uses when describing a perceived success of his.
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 31 Dec 12 19:28
None of ye have explained the ride given to Glens Melody

I have already stated that Ruby didn't look to interested once Zuzka had flown. She also jumped indifferently once again and wouldn't have beat the winner on the day with a headstart.

None of ye have explained all the money for Glens Melody

It has already been well established in this thread that the real significant money was for Zuzka overnight and throughout the day. Glens Melody was no better than solid in the betting and the late money could easily have been the Ruby factor amongst the Leopardstown crowd.
To try and intimate that there was some kind of torrential late run of money for Glens Melody on foot of WPM putting people on a non-jigger is wrong and I believe you are doing it to try and put substance to a superfluous argument.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 19:32
Putting substance to a superfluous argument.  Also known as Cognitive Dissonance.
By:
lapsy pa
When: 31 Dec 12 19:32
A happy new year to you as well Ozy.
Small bit of a lack in class imo to post your 16.11 post,it almost looks as if you you were half hoping for it to have one up on Wildman.
By:
dj876
When: 31 Dec 12 19:34
I think the betting in the race highlighted the lack in strength of depth that was in the race(not unusual for a confined mares race).
There wasn't an avalanche of late money either probably the standard shortening for the SP market,Glen's Melody was always strong in the place market(1.49-1.36).

Mullins was frank and open on his website beforehand and Patrick thanked Ruby for allowing him to ride.
"We also run two in the mares hurdle over 2m 4f. Zuzka (Patrick) ran a fantastic race at Fairyhouse and the winner has franked the form since. This trip will suit and a reproduction of her Fairyhouse run will give her a great chance today. Glens Melody (Ruby) has two good runs behind her and hopefully she will earn some black type by finishing in the first three."
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 31 Dec 12 19:38
Ozy I do think that comment Re. the bumper today was a low blow. We all get races wrong.
By:
Ozymandius
When: 31 Dec 12 19:39
I was!  Not because I would want to deny the old crather a winner and a few quid but because I didn't want to have to read that the result represented yet more 'conclusive proof' of some conspiracy or other.
By:
lapsy pa
When: 31 Dec 12 19:48
At least you admit it Ozy, still the essence of the forum should in the least try to be good spirited in regard maybe an angle or even discussion or humour, Wildman does in the very least that.
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