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wildmanfromborneo
30 Oct 12 12:58
Joined:
Date Joined: 30 Nov 10
| Topic/replies: 41,739 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
Cops And Robbers ran in the first race in Fairyhouse on Tuesday he drifted from 1.44 to I think around 1.9 a massive drift this was followed by a huge punt on Sizing Rio,result Cops And Robbers beaten 18 lengths by Sizing Rio.
The same Cops And Robbers reemerges in Wexford and is fluctuating around evens in the morning but come the race he is heavily punted into 1/2 some turnaround.I have already stated elsewhere he is no good but the Meade punters have been spectacularly right.
At Galway yesterday another horse I have posted against here when some were calling her the second coming Fickle Finger who won an all aged bumper was now reverting to her own age group,she was around 1.44 in the morning again a massive drift this time out to around 2.3 and again job done.
I don't think either horse was stopped but there were heavy gamblers in the know and they cleaned up,if you fancy a Meade horse be very worried if there is a huge drift.
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Report never give up November 7, 2012 11:22 PM GMT

Nov 7, 2012 -- 4:52PM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:


A drift of .5 would be a drift thats what the word means,anyway it was far bigger  than that the horse was actually laid at 2.28 and drifted out more than the 3.15 i indicated,the horse was available at 5/2 on track.However i did indicate that it wasnt as spectacular as the two original ones cited but where it does differ from todays horse is he was the form horse and twas the bookies priced him originally at 5/4.What does hth mean?


there was buttons traded at 2.28..............sp bookmakers have nothing to do with this as u have quoted the prices on here instead on numerous occassions

Report wildmanfromborneo November 7, 2012 11:24 PM GMT
Thanks Stamford Bridge for that informative post.
I read all the reports on that Fairyhouse race and never heard anything about a wind problem,RicksonG One Last Chance and dj876 never mentioned this wind problem in their sterling defence of Cops And Robbers,it was never mentioned to the stewards.
Stamford Bridge knows his stuff and it rings true because that drift wasnt natural and like i said at the start someone had a marked deck.
Report never give up November 7, 2012 11:30 PM GMT
Stamford Bridge knows his stuff and it rings true because that drift wasnt natural and like i said at the start someone had a marked deck.


does this mean that the people with the marked deck lost twice as much laying the winner today then rosie ?
Report wildmanfromborneo November 7, 2012 11:38 PM GMT
No it doesnt because this was an unraced horse as against Cops And Robbers who had great form.
Form punters back form horses and plenty of money was traded at 4/9 on Cops And Robbers no form punter i know back unraced horses that is the preserve of the lads that look for tips also the layers of Cops And Robbers appear now to have had some information that the backers were unaware of,that is what is meant by a marked deck.
Report never give up November 7, 2012 11:42 PM GMT
Time will tell whether the layers of Cops And Robbers were playing with a marked deck.
Is this thread not an opinion,is it not betting advice,I will say it again when a Meade horse drifts as much as these two did don't back them.
I have stumbled on something as I have got the first threat of legal action just now.

u have been proved wrong today again rosie,it happens,get over it
Report wildmanfromborneo November 7, 2012 11:50 PM GMT
You keep repeating posts that contradict your argument and make mine.
Surely the relevant quote there is " when a Meade horse drifts as much as those two did don`t back them "
This thread may now have finally uncovered the real reason for the spectacular drift on Cops And Robbers this wind problem and the gentlemen who were so irate with this post never mentioned this in their defence,i also stated Sizing Rio was backed not on the basis of his brilliance but because they knew there was a problem with the favourite.
Report never give up November 7, 2012 11:58 PM GMT
as i said u have been proved wrong ,accept it and move on...............there was feck all traded on cops and robbers at 2/5........it opened 4/7 and returned 8/11..............a drift of .16
Report wildmanfromborneo November 8, 2012 12:05 AM GMT
Whats your idea of feck all,i certainly saw around five grand traded at 1.43 you also conveniently forget the plunge on Sizing Rio,they got fortunes out of it which is why they were so defensive about it.
It will be interesting to see if Noel Meade ever told the stewards about this wind problem.
Report never give up November 8, 2012 12:29 AM GMT

Nov 7, 2012 -- 6:05PM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:


Whats your idea of feck all,i certainly saw around five grand traded at 1.43 you also conveniently forget the plunge on Sizing Rio,they got fortunes out of it which is why they were so defensive about it.It will be interesting to see if Noel Meade ever told the stewards about this wind problem.


nobody else seen 5 grand or anything like it @ 1.43...............

Report Ahoy 1982 November 8, 2012 3:24 AM GMT
I seen 5K at between 1.4 and 1.5 as i was considering lumping on the horse.The drift put me off.
Report RicksonG November 8, 2012 12:07 PM GMT
This thread gets better with age like a fine wine

I'd love to know what exactly my ''sterling defence'' of Cops And Robbers was. I questioned the reading of the ''form horses'' run in the G3 that made him the ''form horse'' and also his overall ability level on what he has done on a racecourse. I pointed out that a tongue tie was applied at Wexford following the initial run and gave the ground as a possible reason for bringing something to light i.e a wind problem! - This is basic. I also pointed out data about the high level of p2p graduate and how Sizing Rio was a potentially valid solution as the 30% dog in a race like that with a profile such as his.

The thread is a mildly interesting topic as was the Ballydoyle one, it looks at a top yard with alot of runners and questions some moves in the market. The amateur form reading + analysis as well as weak analysis of the market with limited data to back it up or to prove its relevence cant be taken seriously and probably says more about the man who started the thread than any strong assumptions that can be deduced from it however.

Data for the C+R's races on the 23/10 and 28/10 now available http://data.betfair.com/#null
Report wildmanfromborneo November 8, 2012 9:18 PM GMT
There is some fair criticism in RicksonG response.
My use of the words sterling defence is not a criticism as thats what you did in polite and reasonable language,indeed you have restated that defence again.I said at the time the points you listed were reasonable but you didn't mention a probable wind problem and neither did Noel Meade.
I agree now that Cops And Robbers is no good but going into the Fairyhouse race his form was outstanding and the bookies put him in at 2/5,there was a sustained and massive drift and a decent gamble on Sizing Rio,his owner is not a gambler and the horse was backed by punters associated with the Meade stable that suggested to me they knew something we didnt,that this was followed by another massive drifter in Fickle Fortune was worthy of comment in my opinion.If Cops And Robbers has a wind problem that would explain it to me but it would also make my point that his layers were playing with a marked deck.
I admire the skill of the computer literate on here,their ability to ascertain facts in seconds that takes me ages,I have to rely on memory and general impression,your point about Pivotal was correct to me but my idea was based solely on my impression of his stock rather than the hard and fast figures,I accept that to be a flaw.
Report never give up November 8, 2012 11:15 PM GMT
cops and robbers was not a "drifter"
Report steeringjobnap November 8, 2012 11:20 PM GMT
^ incorrect.

There was a fortune taken out of the horse circa 1.67-ish from memory, huge traded volume spike on the price chart, at the time when liquidity in the market was light.

IIRC, the winner went off at around 2.75 here [available at 3/1 earlier that morning].
Report never give up November 8, 2012 11:51 PM GMT

Nov 8, 2012 -- 5:20PM, steeringjobnap wrote:


^ incorrect.There was a fortune taken out of the horse circa 1.67-ish from memory, huge traded volume spike on the price chart, at the time when liquidity in the market was light.IIRC, the winner went off at around 2.75 here [available at 3/1 earlier that morning].


rosie said he drifted from 2/5............there was very little traded at 2/5................plenty traded at 4/6 as u say but thats the same as every race every day

Report never give up November 8, 2012 11:52 PM GMT
IIRC, the winner went off at around 2.75 here [available at 3/1 earlier that morning].

u would get buttons on in the morning
Report Rocketfingers November 8, 2012 11:53 PM GMT
That cops and robbers race in fairyhouse surely the reason it drifting was for the massive support for the winner. Would look to me nothing to me at first glance and without knowing either animal.
Report Rocketfingers November 8, 2012 11:54 PM GMT
'nothing untoward'
Report steeringjobnap November 9, 2012 12:34 AM GMT
The horse continued to drift after the 1.67 price-mark.

To say the horse "didn't drift" simply because the early morning market traded volumes were low, is disingenious.

2/5 out to 9/10-ish is a significant move in anyone's book, particularly as the money for the second fav/eventual winner was a constant stream [obviosuly in the opposite direction], right up until the race's off.

The race's subsequent events - bearing out the market moves - are worthy of discussion.
Report never give up November 9, 2012 1:03 AM GMT

Nov 8, 2012 -- 6:34PM, steeringjobnap wrote:


The horse continued to drift after the 1.67 price-mark.To say the horse "didn't drift" simply because the early morning market traded volumes were low, is disingenious.2/5 out to 9/10-ish is a significant move in anyone's book, particularly as the money for the second fav/eventual winner was a constant stream [obviosuly in the opposite direction], right up until the race's off.The race's subsequent events - bearing out the market moves - are worthy of discussion.


it was basically a 2 horse race,obviously if one "drifts"the other ones price decreases.......i will say it again,there was buttons traded at 1.4

Report never give up November 9, 2012 1:04 AM GMT
kauto star drifted from 1.3 to 1.52 at droyal one day and  pissed in,is this not a drift then ?
Report steeringjobnap November 9, 2012 1:17 AM GMT
You seem to be missing my point, so I will paraphrase:-

There is a mine of data available on the internet, on the level stakes' profit/loss derived from backing "drifters" in a betting medium in which the pricing is initially derived from "insiders"...

Rather than doing this hard work, come back in 12 months when you've backed every drifter in IRE/UK/AUS/UK/RSA on the live show of prices,at which the final show price grealt exceeds the opening tick.

1.01 you'd be a NAMA applicant.

Steaming/drifting is much more important than prices.

There is the world of difference between 2.0 about a horse opening 3.0; vs 2.0 about a beast opening 1.40...
Report never give up November 9, 2012 1:19 AM GMT
i respect ur opinion but in this case the said horse was not a drifter as there was very little matched at 1.4
Report pa lapsy November 9, 2012 6:57 AM GMT
Cops and robbers has an entry in Sundays g3 novice hurdle,(Sizing Rio also entered,know around 11 today, it would be a fascinating rematch).Meade also has Gigginstown's Maxim Gorky entered which i think will be his likely runner.
Fact that he has given Cops and robbers an entry would suggest he holds him in at least some regard.
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:10 AM GMT
Pa Lapsy...............The policy is to run the nuts out of every horse so the 2 might run.
Report pa lapsy November 9, 2012 11:15 AM GMT
Morning Gant,final decs just Cops and robbers,Sizing also declared.
I,d have a guess Davy won,t be so far off the pace on Sunday.
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:27 AM GMT
He will be bang there with a decent pot on offer.
Report Ozymandius November 9, 2012 11:47 AM GMT
Do I not recall some extensive piece of research in the last few years suggesting surprisingly that over the long term backing drifters is more profitable than steamers.  I realise this seems unlikely on the face of it.  Perhaps I am imagining things.
Report Deplasterer November 9, 2012 12:23 PM GMT
No reason really that Cops would overturn the form with Sizing, even if closer to the pace?
Report pa lapsy November 9, 2012 12:40 PM GMT
He is 5lb better off,maybe he needed the run more than Sizing,hadn,t a tongue tie at Fairyhouse(has since and Sun).Hard to see it Deplasterer even though C+R was fav that day,it was an eased down 18 lengths.
Betting might be informative,Mischief
Report Deplasterer November 9, 2012 1:07 PM GMT
Fair enough pa. Might keep Sizing's price bigger than it should be too.Wink
Report wildmanfromborneo November 9, 2012 8:50 PM GMT
This weekend will tell a story,tomorrow Strategic Bid runs in the second race and Sunday at Navan the rematch between Sizing Rio and Cops And Robbers.
On a general point i am assuming that all bar Never Give Up accepts Cops And Robbers was a drifter in the Fairyhouse race.
Report never give up November 9, 2012 9:58 PM GMT
think u r assuming wrong per usual
Report wildmanfromborneo November 9, 2012 10:06 PM GMT
When a horse goes out in price that is a drift,when a horse goes from 2/5 and 4/11 in places to 8/11 that is a spectacular drift.
Roi Du Mee drifted from 8/11 to 11/10 in Thurles yesterday and still won hope you remembered me telling you that a horse of Gordon Elliott drifting is not a cause of concern.
Report never give up November 9, 2012 11:03 PM GMT
as i said u have been proved wrong ,accept it and move on...............there was feck all traded on cops and robbers at 2/5........it opened 4/7 and returned 8/11..............a drift of .16
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:12 PM GMT
C
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:12 PM GMT
Cops and robbers 4/11
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:12 PM GMT
Cops and robbers 4/11
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:12 PM GMT
Cops and robbers 4/11
Report GANT007 November 9, 2012 11:15 PM GMT
Cops and robbers 4/11 to 8/11 and sizing rio 7/2 to 13/8.......Stable jockey riding against the retained rider.........one was on the ball and the market got it right.
Report never give up November 9, 2012 11:29 PM GMT
on course opening show was 4/7..............there was buttons traded on here gant at 2/5
Report pa lapsy November 11, 2012 1:23 PM GMT
Form today looked as if it worked out nearly exactly to the Fairyhouse race.
Report dj876 November 11, 2012 1:50 PM GMT
Wildman-"I don't accept for one minute that Sizing Rio was backed off the boards on the basis he was highly regarded,"

He looked fairly impressive there in a grade 3,Cops and Robbers beaten 29 lengths.No doubt the wildman will move the posts as usual.

There is no difference with drifters in the Noel Meade stable to any of the other large stables in Ireland.
Report GANT007 November 11, 2012 1:56 PM GMT
Sure you will get drama queens in all sports and walks of life.
Report Ozymandius November 11, 2012 2:05 PM GMT
Laugh
Report pa lapsy November 11, 2012 2:20 PM GMT
I was suspicious of the Fairyhouse race myself,after today think it shows how very average Cops and robbers is,and while Sizing had to work in the end today he is fairly decent,maybe that was the crux of the market that day.
Whether agreeing or not it is a worthy topic and to simply summarise it by watching the gambles and drifters with the stable is fairly sound advice.
Report Catch Me ifyoucan November 11, 2012 3:09 PM GMT
Eligible out to 3/1 now from 2's in Navan Bumper !
Report GANT007 November 11, 2012 3:13 PM GMT
he was 5/4 early doors.
Report never give up November 11, 2012 5:44 PM GMT

Nov 11, 2012 -- 7:56AM, GANT007 wrote:


Sure you will get drama queens in all sports and walks of life.


LaughLaughLaugh

Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 7:48 PM GMT
Dj876 tis you that is moving the goalposts,the statement of mine you highlight is still true despite his impressive win today.
The reason he was backed was they had Cops And Robbers under the arm,they knew he would not win so they punted what they thought was the danger and layed their dead one.De Bromhead said he thought a lot of Sizing Rio but thought he would not beat Cops And Robbers,the backers of Sizing Rio were all Meade punters.
Never Give Up still thinks Cops And Robbers didn't drift despite being one of the biggest drifts of the year only surpassed by a bigger drift on Fickle Fortune.
My original assertion was they were playing with a marked deck,this was confirmed by Cops And Robbers abysmal display today,I now await their excuse.
Report Ozymandius November 11, 2012 7:54 PM GMT
Cry
Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 8:11 PM GMT
Ozymandius I think you will accept that you are not really a horse racing man but trying to form a cyber alliance with dj876 and being blinded by personal dislike is not your style.Review the facts of this case and take into consideration the times of the posts,we now know Cops And Robbers is no good but my point was his layers had some inside knowledge before his run at Fairyhouse,Dj876 and others got irate and denied they knew anything it was all done on form,time will tell but I feel that abysmal run of his today is a boost to my argument.
Report Ozymandius November 11, 2012 8:16 PM GMT
Cognitive dissonance at its very best.
Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
You have lost me there.
Report Ozymandius November 11, 2012 8:19 PM GMT
The Belief Disconfirmation Paradigm

Dissonance is aroused when people are confronted with information that is inconsistent with their beliefs. If the dissonance is not reduced by changing one's belief, the dissonance can result in restoring consonance through misperception or rejection or refutation of the information, seeking support from others who share the beliefs, and attempting to persuade others.

An early version of cognitive dissonance theory appeared in Leon Festinger's 1956 book, When Prophecy Fails. This book gave an inside account of the increasing belief that sometimes follows the failure of a cult's prophecy. The believers met at a pre-determined place and time, believing they alone would survive the Earth's destruction. The appointed time came and passed without incident. They faced acute cognitive dissonance: had they been the victim of a hoax? Had they donated their worldly possessions in vain? Most members chose to believe something less dissonant: the aliens had given earth a second chance, and the group was now empowered to spread the word: earth-spoiling must stop. The group dramatically increased their proselytism despite the failed prophecy
Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 8:31 PM GMT
That sociology degree has some worth but think I will stick to the horse racing,you can keep trying to score points by an avalanche of smileys yet you have failed to refute anything I have said,you make no argument at all.
Your points on Michael OLeary presumes that he has gambling knowledge,he doesn't and has no interest in it,you seem to think he would okay his jockey imparting inside knowledge to a bookmaker is wrong in that it's not his world and he is unaware of it.All Gigginstown horses try as far as I can see because the owner has no interest in gambling.
Report tobywong. November 11, 2012 8:38 PM GMT
"All Gigginstown horses try as far as I can see because the owner has no interest in gambling. "Laugh
Report Ozymandius November 11, 2012 8:39 PM GMT
Yeah right!,..... your reckon that MOL has no idea that a jockey might talk about his horses prospects...are you for real?

You know feck all about MOL so enough of the spoofology.
Report Bassanio November 11, 2012 8:44 PM GMT
Realt Dubh was a tight 3.2 right up until close to the off and then took a dramatic drift in the last few minutes. I think he was 4.3 by the time the tape went up.
Report DECALEC November 11, 2012 8:47 PM GMT
will u guys reply each other a bit quicker going out for a pint shortly but enjoying reading this threadGrin
Report tobywong. November 11, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
^^ Laugh
Report mitch leary November 11, 2012 8:49 PM GMT
because of money for flemenstar realt dubh drifted.
absolutely nothing untoward.
if you saw the race you will notice he made a disastrous mistake and was lucky to stand up.
people losing the run of themselves with conspiracy theories.
Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 8:52 PM GMT
"are you for real".  "what planet are you on" that's your quota of cliches for today I hope.

You all presume that owners understand gambling,they don't and because they are successful in business they will be shrewd gamblers yet all the evidence shows us that when the most brilliant of men move outside their field of expertise into the gambling arena not only do they lose but they get cleaned out by men they would not employ as office boys.
Even the Gigginstown horses in Byrnes stable have tried in all races,he has no interest in setting one up for a handicap,Shrapnel would be a prime example he has some attractive mark earned because he appeared ungenuine,he may have been carrying an injury but he is more likely to run in a novice event.
Report Bassanio November 11, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
I am simply adding something to the debate for wildman.

I don't believe there was anything wrong and RD looked underpriced even at 3/1 or so after finishing like he did last week.
Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 9:08 PM GMT
I agree Bassanio my gripe was the Cops And Robbers race at Fairyhouse.
Neither do I include Eligible in this category although it did seem as if Nina was waiting for her fathers horse to arrive.
Report Ozymandius November 11, 2012 9:14 PM GMT
Just because MOL doesnt gamble on his horses doesn't mean he doesn't understand it.  Of course he does,  it's not exactly rocket science.  I have spend a lot of time in his company and he is is an incredibly shrewd, sharp individualt

Statements such as;

I also think that if OLeary who doesn't gamble knew the sums being won by laying some of his horses he would be astounded and maybe jealous.

defy belief on  a number of counts.

Its a waste of time engaging worth you on here, you pass opinions off as fact, then ignore conflicting evidence.  The moving of goalposts is a main feature of your approach when cornered as is repeating well know facts such as 'MOL doesn't gamble' back at a persona as if to imply they are suggesting that he does.  You use every slippery technique in the box, and the man on here who said you should be in the Dail was 100& correct.

In summary, you are a boll*x.
Report one last chance November 11, 2012 9:26 PM GMT
this thread is still a load of bollacks GrinGrin  go on the flemstar sum horse and can only get better
Report wildmanfromborneo November 11, 2012 9:32 PM GMT
Why the name calling,why lose your temper disagree if you like but you have failed to come up with any conflicting evidence.
You may be best friends of Michael OLeary and protective of him but it is not an insult to say he has no interest in gambling nor is it an insult to say he doesn't quite understand it as he has stated this himself,the statement of mine you highlight starts "I also think" that is not passing opinion as fact it is clearly just my opinion.
Report dj876 November 11, 2012 10:32 PM GMT
Wildman your a gas man,if C+R had got closer today or even beaten sizing,you would be saying point proved as well,as I have said previously a career in politics awaits.
Report never give up November 19, 2012 12:36 AM GMT
wildbore is obsessed with meade
Report wildmanfromborneo November 19, 2012 1:00 AM GMT
Now that is a perfect example of you descending on my posts.
You are the one obsessed one night you had your name on seventeen posts all abusive and all about me.
Report never give up November 19, 2012 1:25 AM GMT
err,tis u thats been stalking me tonite again on the horse forum tootsie
Report wildmanfromborneo February 2, 2013 6:48 PM GMT
It always comes out in the end.
I don't mind the Unholy Trinity of Double O/ Never Give Up Benny Hill/ Ozymandius and Manti Te'o/Rocketfingers  getting everything wrong as that is par for the course but One Last Chance,RicksonG and dj876 are horses of a different colour but equally wrong.

At the start of this thread I pointed out the remarkable drift on Cops And Robbers in his maiden hurdle at Fauryhouse,the drift was from 1.43 to 1.9, first in was One Last Chance with some aggressive posts,next in was dj876 straight forward nothing unusual the winner had good form,RicksonG entered the fray saying he laid Cops And Robbers  and sure the other horse had the better form.After about a hundred posts Stamford Bridge posted that Cops And Robbers had a wind problem,this rang true to me as it would explain a lot.

In today's Irish Field in the Talking Trainers spot Noel Meade writes about Cops And Robbers " he has been plagued by wind problems,he has had another operation,his wind has been catching him " I said all along the Noel Meade punters were playing with a marked deck,this bears it out as nowhere until now was this mentioned,they kept the information for themselves and played accordingly.
Report workrider February 2, 2013 8:14 PM GMT
i thought we'd lost you for a minute wildmanfromborneo , what with the lotto winner coming from around the thurles area and all...still i see your bang on form as usual ...as the saying goes ..they knew....
Report never give up February 2, 2013 8:15 PM GMT
as usual wildbore/dark rosaleen cant go a day without mentioning my name.....the said lonely fool is back to inventing more pet names......grow up u lonely old c***
Report Ozymandius February 2, 2013 9:10 PM GMT
There are rivers that flow for hundreds of miles towards the level of the sea without falling more than a few feet - notably, the Nile, which, in a thousand miles, falls but a foot. A level expanse of this extent is quite incompatible with the idea of the Earth's "convexity."

It is, therefore, a reasonable proof that Earth is not a globe.
Report RicksonG February 2, 2013 9:12 PM GMT
A horse who has never run in a hurdle race has better hurdles form than one who has run in a hurdle, I said this apparently, thats interesting. Sizing Rio went on to actually show better hurdles form in the subsequent months than Cops And Robbers has shown all the same, so the first statement is pretty fcuking deep there I think we will all admit...you give me too much credit Wildman

I think you are probably an okay person Wildmanfromborneo, your enthusiastic for racing, however, I more or less called you a timewaster 3 months ago when you couldnt take the conversation any further, you couldn't take it anywhere actually once I engaged you. 9,119 posts since Nov 30 2010 should have told me you were an airhead but thats not your fault, mea culpa, I should have known who I was talking to.

I'll point out, whether you want to listen or not, that I alluded to potential for a possible wind problem (mentioned by Meade in the Feb 2 2013 Irish field) amongst other things, in Oct 2012 when Cops + Robbers was turned out a week after Fairyhouse on much faster ground at Wexford which would be less likely to exacerbate a potential wind problem....if there was one, pretty basic stuff.

Good luck to you in your betting Wildman, use Betfair / the other exchange site for all your betting in future please....I'll be here to bet with you! :)
Report never give up February 2, 2013 9:19 PM GMT
he made over 7000 posts in less in 6 months when he posted as dark rosaleen b4 getting banned
Report wildmanfromborneo February 2, 2013 10:54 PM GMT
RicksonG you said you laid Cops And Robbers and gave the reasons you never mentioned a wind problem neither was it mentioned anywhere else,the first time I read about it was when Stamford Bridge brought it up.
My two main assertions were that the Noel Meade punters were playing with a marked deck in that race is now undoubtedly proven,my second assertion that the punters backing Sizing Rio did so because they knew Cops And Robbers was under the arm and not on his form is also proven.

One Last Chance got increasingly irate because he knew they had been rumbled,Cops And Robbers was a perfect vehicle for the Meade punters,an owner known not to bet and to run his horses on their merits,they knew about the wind problems so a horse trading at 1.43 was manna for them plus they were able to augment their winnings by punting what they perceived as the only danger Sizing Rio despite his trainer thinking he had no chance against Cops And Robbers.

The only forumite who maintained Cops And Robbers didn't drift was the Double O fair to say not only wrong but spectacularly wrong.
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 12:25 AM GMT
''I alluded to potential for a possible wind problem (mentioned by Meade in the Feb 2 2013 Irish field) amongst other things, in Oct 2012 when Cops + Robbers was turned out a week after Fairyhouse on much faster ground at Wexford which would be less likely to exacerbate a potential wind problem....if there was one, pretty basic stuff.''



alluded  past participle, past tense of al·lude (Verb)
Verb

    Suggest or call attention to indirectly; hint at.
    Mention without discussing at length.


potential

po·ten·tial
[puh-ten-shuhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
possible, as opposed to actual: the potential uses of nuclear energy.
2.
capable of being or becoming: a potential danger to safety.
3.
Grammar . expressing possibility: the potential subjunctive in Latin; the potential use of can in  I can go.
4.
Archaic. potent1 .


possible

pos·si·ble
[pos-uh-buhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
that may or can be, exist, happen, be done, be used, etc.: a disease with no possible cure.
2.
that may be true or may be the case, as something concerning which one has no knowledge to the contrary: It is possible that he has already gone.


RicksonG
31 Oct 12 20:06
Joined:
03 Jun 06
| Topic/replies: 69 | Blogger: RicksonG's blog
1)jockey change 2) change of ground conditions 3)different track 4)benefit of seasonal reappearance 5) weaker race.



RicksonG
31 Oct 12 21:01
Joined:
03 Jun 06
| Topic/replies: 69 | Blogger: RicksonG's blog
C+R also had a tongue tie added at wexford.



Read the thread in your own time Wildmanfromborneo. You start a thread, expect other people to listen to you, wait for them to respond, then insult them not only by not reading what they say but calling them out 3 months later when you get a random hard on for the topic.

Thats nice
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 12:36 AM GMT
You are the one using insulting words not me,I remember the thread alright and the first person to mention this wind problem was Stamford Bridge,you then tried to backtrack and claim that somehow you meant to say it ,it was inferred etcetera,why not just say it.
I have no doubt you knew about the wind problem which is why you laid it but you weren't going to say it which is why your posts here are at best disingenuous.
It is not unreasonable for me to point out this wind problem now when it is admitted to by his trainer especially as I was threatened with litigation for my original post.
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 12:38 AM GMT
How can you have no doubt about something?
Report never give up February 3, 2013 1:12 AM GMT
wildbore aka dark rosaleen moves the goalposts on every thread..........he ruins every thread with his stalking of individuals on here on a daily basis even when he/she was asked to stop doing it by most forumites on here
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 10:45 AM GMT
Having no doubt about something is a failing of mine,many times I have no doubt a horse will win only to watch the beast struggling home well beaten.
I got the whiff of a large rodent when I saw the spectacular drift on Cops And Robbers so I watched for the excuses,Noel Meade never mentioned about this wind problem to the Stewards or to the press but I am now fairly certain that the Cops And Robbers layers knew full well and that's what I mean by playing with a marked deck.
Credit is due to Stamford Bridge as he was first to mention the wind problem,I presume the old maxim about a coup springs to mind " the time to be quiet about a coup is after the event "
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 11:24 AM GMT
Stamford Bridge said nothing that wasn't already said before him, or that couldn't be deduced from the form book. He just extrapolated on 2 of the 5 grounds for possible change in the horses running I gave on the first page.

I suggested similiar on your Ballydoyle thread,  when dealing with lightly raced horses in maidens or juvenile races there are going to be large shifts in the betting, nobody knows fully whats going to happen, the talent is in the choices you make about which markets to play, what shifts are possible and how you place yourself ready to react to them when they do occur.
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 7:34 PM GMT
I have remained polite and civil despite plenty of barbs but it is a fact that Stamford Bridge was first to mention a wind problem and for RicksonG to claim otherwise is just plain wrong.RicksonGs aggressive claim is not even backed up by his long reply and for him to claim that " change of ground conditions " really means he has a breathing problem is risible but it is understandable as he didn't want to show his hand.

Cops And Robbers was a genuine 2/5 shot trading at 1.43 here with five grand matched early on,the punters that backed him are entitled to be annoyed as the gentlemen that laid them knew about this wind problem which they didn't and when he was beaten there was no mention anywhere about the same wind problem because they knew they had played with a marked deck,they were also afraid of repercussions.
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 8:15 PM GMT
You seem to be complaining about doing alot of reading wildmanfromborneo, I'll put some numbers on this one, it might help you not have to move your finger along the screen as your read.

1) Where have I claimed Stamford Bridge did not claim a wind problem?

2) If you feel I am aggressive that is your problem not mine.

3) (This is a long one, I'm sorry) I didn't know the horse had a wind problem before Fairyhouse, I'm not a vet in Noel Meade's yard, I don't use inside information, but I do know a quick turnaround with addition of a tongue tie + change of ground conditions may be less likely exacerbate one. This was potentially one reason for the horse being underrated at Wexford.

4) Why do you feel C+R was a genuine 2/5 shot? isn't this basically what the thread is? you couldn't read the market and over rated Cops And Robbers.

5) What is my hand? enlighten me
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 8:17 PM GMT
re point 3, ''may be less likely exacerbate one and also indicate wind was potentially a problem at Fairyhouse''
Report Rocketfingers February 3, 2013 8:19 PM GMT
LaughLaughLaugh best put down i've seen on here for a while Laugh

"it might help you not have to move your finger along the screen as your read"
Report Ozymandius February 3, 2013 8:30 PM GMT
Its like Groundhog Day.  Borneo in a spat with yet another forumite and being owned in the exchange.  Plus ca change.

RicksonG no one here of sound mind doubts a word you say.  Many of us have been involved in similar exchanges, this time it is your turn.  Best to desist form the discussion as his modus operandi is designed to infuriate and frustrate.
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 8:50 PM GMT
It's like Groundhog Day for you because you and Rocketfingers are on all my threads,ye read every line.
RicksonG your position seems to have moved you now seem to be claiming you knew nothing about this wind problem yet your post today of 00.25 with its dictionary like slant claimed you did when you stated " I alluded to potential for a possible wind problem " seems like an each way punt to me.

I didn't back or lay Cops And Robbers but I saw the drift and I took note,'twas the bookmakers rated him a 2/5 shot but remember they didn't know about his wind problems also the backers on here rated him a 1,43 shot as they traded five grand at that price but they too were in the dark..
This drift was dramatic and stark which is why I posted on it,I knew something was wrong and although it took a while for the reason to come out,it eventually did.
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 8:57 PM GMT
''I didn't back or lay Cops And Robbers but I saw the drift and I took note''


Opinion on everything, commitment to nothing
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 9:04 PM GMT
Not true read my handicapper thread and you will find plenty of betting recommendations including another winner today.
Report RicksonG February 3, 2013 9:07 PM GMT
I'm on the Noel Meade drifter thread, thanks but I don't do tips Wildman.
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 9:25 PM GMT
I created this thread because of two massive drifts on Noel Meade horse.
Cops And Robbers drift was spectacular to me and there seemed no valid reason for it,this was met by hostility One Last Chance replied " load of bollocks " some did give some valid reasons which I acknowledged but I kept saying there was something wrong that we didn't know about, I said someone was playing with a marked deck.
I received some threats of litigation which I ignored but I scoured all reports on Cops And Robbers but read nothing that would explain that drift until I got yesterday's Irish Field with all the comments about his wind problems,to me that was a vindication and begs one last question,why did they hide it and why were people so anxious to close down what is really only one mans opinion.
Report Rocketfingers February 3, 2013 9:33 PM GMT
"I'm on the Noel Meade drifter thread, thanks but I don't do tips Wildman".

Bravo Rickson bravo Laugh
Report mitch leary February 3, 2013 10:36 PM GMT
if a horse has a wind problem, and there are different types it wont necessarily stop them in every race.
A wind problem can also develop over time.
A wind problem will not always be discovered during training and takes the pressure of a race to identify it.
This is my experience of it. Im not a vet but there are a lot of complexities to it.
So even if these punters had a so called "marked deck" it wasnt a given that the horse would underperform.
sizing rio was obviously no mug and its natural for punters to try find one better value to take on a short price fav.
Report wildmanfromborneo February 3, 2013 10:52 PM GMT
I agree with almost all that post and appreciate its civil nature.
After the massive drift on Cops And Robbers and his subsequent defeat there was no mention of any wind problem yet months later Noel Meade in the Irish Field states " he has been plagued with wind problems.He has had another wind operation and is back cantering now,his wind has been catching him " this was all new stuff and the use of the word another surely means he had a wind operation before the Fairyhouse run.

Your last point about Sizing Rio is also valid but it is noteworthy that the punters backing him were Meade ones.
Report Catch Me ifyoucan February 19, 2013 7:56 AM GMT
SO WHAT THE STORY TODAY THEN............

Gaius Marius 5, 11-13 (J Hunt) Noel Meade Ms N Carberry

AND

Made In Germany 5, 11-13 (305) (Gigginstown House Stud) W P Mullins Mr P W Mullins
Report pa lapsy November 16, 2014 10:22 PM GMT
TTT.
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